The Mark of the Beast

[Robin Hood]

NIV has made the strongest attempt to become the new English language standard. But its perversions of scripture, poor style and godless bias make it a bad choice.

That's precisely what the evil ones want unbelievers to hear. AND! It's NOT true!

There're no translations more biased and perverted than the KJV, the Douay, and NWT.

Totally disgree. The NIV might be easier to read, but that's about all it's got going for it. The KJV has stood the test of time.

Again, I will remind you that the KJV translators didn't have the 900 plus papyri documents the NIV translators did. Those documents confirmed KJV additions and were corrected by most of the modern translations. The New KJV reflects those corrections and is far superior translation than the original Authorized KJV.

Those documents did nothing of the sort. The New KJV is dreadful.

[Bronco73idi]

That's precisely what the evil ones want unbelievers to hear. AND! It's NOT true!

There're no translations more biased and perverted than the KJV, the Douay, and NWT.

Totally disgree. The NIV might be easier to read, but that's about all it's got going for it. The KJV has stood the test of time.

Again, I will remind you that the KJV translators didn't have the 900 plus papyri documents the NIV translators did. Those documents confirmed KJV additions and were corrected by most of the modern translations. The New KJV reflects those corrections and is far superior translation than the original Authorized KJV.

Those documents did nothing of the sort. The New KJV is dreadful.

We will be saved by faith alone?

[harp master]

Those documents did nothing of the sort. The New KJV is dreadful.

The NKJV is much more accurate than the AKJV. This thread actually proves it. Of all the 15 translations I have on my computer, the KJV is the ONLY one that says the 'mark' is IN their right hand or forehead. Every other translation that I know of says ON!

There aren't any perfect translations. The NIV has mistakes but nothing like the KJV. The worse mistake of all is the addition of verses 9-20 in Mark 16. People have died handling snakes and drinking poison. They were all Pentecostals of course. I'm not fond of Gotquestions.org but this is what they and several other say about Mark 16:9-20...

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html
"Although the vast majority of later Greek manuscripts contain Mark 16:9-20, the Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8 in two of the oldest and most respected manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. As the oldest manuscripts are known to be the most accurate because there were fewer generations of copies from the original autographs (i.e., they are much closer in time to the originals), and the oldest manuscripts do not contain vv. 9-20, we can conclude that these verses were added later by scribes. The King James Version of the Bible, as well as the New King James, contains vv. 9-20 because the King James used medieval manuscripts as the basis of its translation. Since 1611, however, older and more accurate manuscripts have been discovered and they affirm that vv. 9-20 were not in the original Gospel of Mark.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

The Calvinist, sola-scripture-ist, and 'KJV only' people do their best to badmouth the other translations. Calvinists are the worse. I left a Church last year because in their by-laws they had written that the AKJV of the bible was inspired. Had I caught that before attending I would never have gone there.

Some KJV only folks admit the KJV has several mistakes - over 100. Then they claim the NIV is worse without comparing the two. Anybody who looks at this without bias would notice the KJV additions came from corrupted text.

[Robin Hood]

Totally disgree. The NIV might be easier to read, but that's about all it's got going for it. The KJV has stood the test of time.

Again, I will remind you that the KJV translators didn't have the 900 plus papyri documents the NIV translators did. Those documents confirmed KJV additions and were corrected by most of the modern translations. The New KJV reflects those corrections and is far superior translation than the original Authorized KJV.

Those documents did nothing of the sort. The New KJV is dreadful.

We will be saved by faith alone?

Yes we will.

[Niemand]

Those documents did nothing of the sort. The New KJV is dreadful.

The NKJV is much more accurate than the AKJV. This thread actually proves it.

This thread proves that many modern versions leave things out that upset contemporary mores or liberal theology.

If you read up on these things, you would also find they are not consistent in what they do and don't leave out according to older manuscripts.

Read the new versions, and you'll be missing a lot of Christ-centred doctrine. You've also been unable to refute the fact that some new versions don't read well, and that their translators are godless.

Of all the 15 translations I have on my computer, the KJV is the ONLY one that says the 'mark' is IN their right hand or forehead. Every other translation that I know of says ON!

The word is "epi", it's a preposition which has a variety of translations into English including - "in", "on", "against", "for", "among" etc.

English words derived from it - epidermis (that which is over the skin), epicentre (in the centre of an Earthquake), epilogue (word that comes after).

There aren't any perfect translations. The NIV has mistakes but nothing like the KJV.

The NIV is written to soften up doctrine regarding sexual behaviour, soteriology, occultism, and lack of faith.... and its translators make no claim to divine inspiration.

The worse mistake of all is the addition of verses 9-20 in Mark 16. People have died handling snakes and drinking poison. They were all Pentecostals of course.

Not true, but I'll let that slide.

Some KJV only folks admit the KJV has several mistakes - over 100. Then they claim the NIV is worse without comparing the two. Anybody who looks at this without bias would notice the KJV additions came from corrupted text.

I've been comparing the two for decades now. At school, we had the Good News Bible, which is awful (but aimed at non-native English speakers) followed by the NIV. I got very familar with the NIV.

When I learnt about the horrific biases, omissions and agendas of the NIV, I quickly dropped it. Also, as I keep telling you, it doesn't read well. The KJV has issues that way due to archaisms (bowels, anyone?), but often manages to craft good turns of phrase, whereas nothing in the NIV ever really stuck with me.

I left a Church last year because in their by-laws they had written that the AKJV of the bible was inspired.

The translators of the KJV prayed over their work, and for its success. Those of the NIV didn't, and it shows in its sidelining of Christ.

[harp master]

Says the one who downright lied about some the NIV translators saying they were Sinners, Agnostics, and Atheist.

[Original_Intent]

My recent doctor's appointment was bizarre.
My doc has always encouraged the vaxx but in a very non-pushy way.
My last visit there were two observers during our appointment. One was a supposed M.D. trainee, and one was a lady that I do not know what here role was.
I got a very "Dolores Umbridge" vibe off her, for those that have seen the Harry Potter movies. For those that haven't, imagine the "stick my nose in other people's business" attitude with someone who has a small degree of authority. She was taking notes throughout my appointment, and I get the impression she was taking notes on my doctor's performance, not about me.

The doctor pushed the vaxx pretty hard, but I declined. He also asked about if I had had a colonoscopy, which he had never done before. My impression was that he was to push procedures and that she was there to make sure that he did.

[Robin Hood]

I have many bible versions on my bookshelf. KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, NET, Jerusalem.... to name the main ones.
The KJV is superior to the others by a country mile.
Of my collection, the NIV is the worst.

[Niemand]

Says the one who downright lied about some the NIV translators saying they were Sinners, Agnostics, and Atheist.

As a friend of mine says the fast track to becoming an atheist is to study theology at university. Unfortunately true in today's universities which seek to overthrow white patriarchal heteronormative power structures.

Over 60,000 words and phrases are deleted in the NIV, mostly those that do not support the mores of the translators. Entire verses are omitted:
Matthew 17:21
Matthew 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
John 5:3–4
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 24:6–8
Acts 28:29
Romans 16:24

Not even a footnote in some cases.

The NKJV and NIV disagree on many points, again, the NIV omits Christ:
“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Or
NIV – "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

NKJV –" But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

Mark 11:26 - major doctrinal point
NIV – MISSING.

NKJV – "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

There were a huge number of people involved with the NIV, so it is hard to look at them all. But let's look at a couple:

Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: Literary consultant. Episcopal magazine, Witness (June 1991, pp. 20-23), she admits,

My homosexuality has always been a part of me...

From a letter she wrote to Michael J. Penfold.

I worked on the NIV during the entire time it was being translated and reviewed... our job was simply to make sure the translation would communicate clearly to modern American readers, and that the style was as smooth and understandable as possible. I was never removed, sacked, or made redundant from my work on the NIV; if I were, my name would not have appeared on the list sent out by the IBS.... I was lesbian while I was working on the NIV... I do not understand why anybody would want to bash the NIV because a closeted lesbian worked on it. I .... would have argued that the word/concept “homosexual” is too anachronistic to be utilized in translating an ancient text.

Suthor of "Omnigender".


Dr. Marten Woudstra: Chair of the Old Testament committee

There is nothing in the Old Testament that corresponds to homosexuality as we understand it today.

The 2011 edition of the NIV also employs gender neutral language, which may or may not be relevant, but which is nothing to do with the original texts:

1984 NIV Proverbs 15:5 "A fool spurns his father’s discipline, but whoever heeds correction shows prudence."
2011 NIV Proverbs 15:5 "A fool spurns a parent’s discipline, but whoever heeds correction shows prudence. "

1984 NIV 1 Samuel 18:2 "From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his
father’s house."
2011 NIV 1 Samuel 18:2 "From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home
to his family."

1984 NIV Psalm 8:4 "what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for
him?"
2011 NIV Psalm 8:4 "what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care
for them?" (Obvious issue here is that phrase the "son of man" has particular resonance)

1984 NIV John 14:23 'Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father
will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.'
2011 NIV John 14:23 'Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father
will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.'

Again, not in the Greek.

The NIV (2011) changes “Women” to “weaklings’ in verses like Nahum 3:13; Isa. 19:16; Jer. 50:37; and Jer.51:30.

Oh, and Harper Collins which publishes the NIV also publishes Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible. Obviously keeping their options open.

[Niemand]

I have many bible versions on my bookshelf. KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, NET, Jerusalem.... to name the main ones.
The KJV is superior to the others by a country mile.
Of my collection, the NIV is the worst.

People forget that translation is not just getting over meaning and literal interpretation, it is also getting the style right. When one translates a work, you are effectively creating a new work of literature, where some things will not go well over into the other. There is a married couple who translate a lot of Russian literature together, Pevear & Volokhonsky... I won't touch any of their work, because I find their style in English so inappopriate and annoying. But they churn it out, so I keep having to avoid it.

I see from their Wikipedia article, I am not alone in my take on them:

Writing in The New York Review of Books in 2016, the critic Janet Malcolm argued that Pevear and Volokhonsky "have established an industry of taking everything they can get their hands on written in Russian and putting it into flat, awkward English".[17] Some translators have voiced similar criticism, both in Russia[18] and in the English-speaking world. The Slavic studies scholar Gary Saul Morson has written in Commentary that Pevear and Volokhonsky translations "take glorious works and reduce them to awkward and unsightly muddles".[19] Criticism has been focused on the excessive literalness of the couple's translations and the perception that they miss the original tone of the authors.

That's just secular translation. Rendering Dostoyevsky into English is not translating scripture, but it does require artistic skill.

Sometimes the KJV is way off, such as its use of "bowels" (which is inappropriate in today's age).and "crookbackt", but it also has turns of phrase which stick in the mind and have been adopted into everyday English.

[abijah`]

I have many bible versions on my bookshelf. KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, NET, Jerusalem.... to name the main ones.
The KJV is superior to the others by a country mile.
Of my collection, the NIV is the worst.

I'd prefer the RSV out of most the the others, personally. The ESV = the updated RSV (DeadSeaScrolls, &c.) its a pretty decent one i find, i use the kjv + esv as my two baselines.

Sometimes having multiple translations can be helpful because they can help you form a more 3-Dimensional image of whatever is being referred to, different facets of a singular idea.

Take Psalm 110:3 for example, a Messianic verse prophesying about how the future messiah's people will (ritually/sacrificially) offer themselves willingly in his day of power, in beautiful garments. The KJV might leave you scratching your head, whereas the ESV cleans things up nicely, in terms of what the verse is communicating:

• Psalm 110:3 (KJV)
  Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

By comparing various translations it becomes clear that the "beauties of holiness" as its rendered in tha KJV, refers to clothing, specifically, of the Spirit, being "endowed/clothed with power from on high"

• Psalm 110:3 (ESV)
  Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.

• Psalm 110:3 (Berean)
  Your people shall be willing on Your day of battle. arrayed in holy splendor, from the womb of the dawn, to You belongs the dew of Your youth.

Psalm 110:3 is riffing off of Judges 6, where we find yet another example of the KJV alone failing to measure up:

• Judges 6:34 (KJV)
  But the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

• Judges 6:34 (ESV)
  But the Spirit of the LORD clothed Gideon, and he sounded the trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called out to follow him

ESV shows how the Spirit was clothed-upon Gideon, and endowing him with the power of the Holy Ghost prior to going to battle. Which is exactly what David is talking about in Ps`110:3, meaning that the "womb" of the "morning" has to do with those who are born of the Spirit:

• Psalm 110
  in the garments of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

• Judges 6 (ESV)
  But the Spirit of the LORD clothed Gideon, and he sounded the trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called out to follow him...
  Then Gideon said to God, “If you will save Israel by my hand, as you have said,
  behold, I am laying a fleece of wool on the threshing floor. If there is dew on the fleece alone, and it is dry on all the ground, then I shall know that you will save Israel by my hand, as you have said.”
  And it was so. When he rose early next morning and squeezed the fleece, he wrung enough dew from the fleece to fill a bowl with water.

• John 3:4-5 (KJV)
  4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

• Isa 51
  Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the dragon?

• Isaiah 51
  Awake, awake, put on "[clothe yourself with" - לָבַשׁ] strength, O arm of the LORD... ["put on strength", or in other words, "endow yourself with power"]

[4Joshua8]

I have many bible versions on my bookshelf. KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, NET, Jerusalem.... to name the main ones.
The KJV is superior to the others by a country mile.
Of my collection, the NIV is the worst.

I'd prefer the RSV out of most the the others, personally. The ESV = the updated RSV (DeadSeaScrolls, &c.) its a pretty decent one i find, i use the kjv + esv as my two baselines.

Sometimes having multiple translations can be helpful because they can help you form a more 3-Dimensional image of whatever is being referred to, different facets of a singular idea.

Take Psalm 110:3 for example, a Messianic verse prophesying about how the future messiah's people will (ritually/sacrificially) offer themselves willingly in his day of power, in beautiful garments. The KJV might leave you scratching your head, whereas the ESV cleans things up nicely, in terms of what the verse is communicating:

• Psalm 110:3 (KJV)
  Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

By comparing various translations it becomes clear that the "beauties of holiness" as its rendered in tha KJV, refers to clothing, specifically, of the Spirit, being "endowed/clothed with power from on high"

• Psalm 110:3 (ESV)
  Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.

• Psalm 110:3 (Berean)
  Your people shall be willing on Your day of battle. arrayed in holy splendor, from the womb of the dawn, to You belongs the dew of Your youth.

Psalm 110:3 is riffing off of Judges 6, where we find yet another example of the KJV alone failing to measure up:

• Judges 6:34 (KJV)
  But the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

• Judges 6:34 (ESV)
  But the Spirit of the LORD clothed Gideon, and he sounded the trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called out to follow him

ESV shows how the Spirit was clothed-upon Gideon, and endowing him with the power of the Holy Ghost prior to going to battle. Which is exactly what David is talking about in Ps`110:3, meaning that the "womb" of the "morning" has to do with those who are born of the Spirit:

• Psalm 110
  in the garments of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

• Judges 6 (ESV)
  But the Spirit of the LORD clothed Gideon, and he sounded the trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called out to follow him...
  Then Gideon said to God, “If you will save Israel by my hand, as you have said,
  behold, I am laying a fleece of wool on the threshing floor. If there is dew on the fleece alone, and it is dry on all the ground, then I shall know that you will save Israel by my hand, as you have said.”
  And it was so. When he rose early next morning and squeezed the fleece, he wrung enough dew from the fleece to fill a bowl with water.

• John 3:4-5 (KJV)
  4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

• Isa 51
  Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the dragon?

• Isaiah 51
  Awake, awake, put on "[clothe yourself with" - לָבַשׁ] strength, O arm of the LORD... ["put on strength", or in other words, "endow yourself with power"]

Parallel Bible is what I want. I’m not a fan of the KJV, but I don’t feel like any are perfect. Something like this would get my attention: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310436761/

[abijah`]

Parallel Bible is what I want. I’m not a fan of the KJV, but I don’t feel like any are perfect. Something like this would get my attention: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310436761/

a recent recommendation i heard was a NET Bible Full Notes edition, but i don't even know what that is, haven't looked into it at all yet.

[Alaris]

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them


The Beast

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


Who is this? Jesus Christ is His friend, but it will be The Holy Ghost.

Gospel of Thomas
12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

I learned first from the Spirit. James? The Holy Ghost? No way! Way. James is the Holy Ghost. He is part of the 3 among James, Peter, and John. Peter grabs the Gentiles.... James... The Holy Ghost grabs ahold the inside. John wrote the Revelation

Second Apocalypse of James
I am the first son who was begotten. -
He will destroy the dominion of them all. -
I am the beloved.
I am the righteous one.
I am the son of the Father.

I speak even as I heard.
I command even as I received the order.
I show you even as I have found.

This was BEFORE I read anything about James.... That the Spirit taught me.


KING Follet by Joseph Smith

I have an old edition of the New Testament in the Latin, Hebrew, German and Greek languages. I have been reading the German, and find it to be the most [nearly] correct translation, and to correspond nearest to the revelations which God has given to me for the last fourteen years. It tells about Jacobus, the son of Zebedee. It means Jacob. In the English New Testament it is translated James. Now, if Jacob had the keys, you might talk about James through all eternity and never get the keys. In the 21st [verse] of the fourth chapter of Matthew, my old German edition gives the word Jacob instead of James.
The doctors (I mean doctors of law, not physic) say, “If you preach anything not according to the Bible, we will cry treason.” How can we escape the damnation of hell, except God be with us and reveal to us? Men bind us with chains. The Latin says Jacobus, which means Jacob; the Hebrew says Jacob, the Greek says Jacob and the German says Jacob, here we have the testimony of four against one. I thank God that I have got this old book; but I thank him more for the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have got the oldest book in the world; but I have got the oldest book in my heart, even the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have all the four Testaments. Come here, ye learned men, and read, if you can. I should not have introduced this testimony, were it not to back up the word rosh—the head, the Father of the Gods. I should not have brought it up, only to show that I am right.


Joseph Smith knew it.... He knew it. The Gods were all about it.... Progression. Oh, and we'll put in a lesson on Jacob. Thats important.

[Alaris]

Its been 38 days and 1 year since I got a Stroke. Here comes the next year.

[Zion Altman]

Its been 38 days and 1 year since I got a Stroke. Here comes the next year.

who is the beast of you did you find her when you say of yourself that you are wise and have the Holy Spirit

[BeNotDeceived]

Its been 38 days and 1 year since I got a Stroke. Here comes the next year.

who is the beast of you did you find her when you say of yourself that you are wise and have the Holy Spirit

38 awesome type days aka the great reset.

[Zion Altman]

Its been 38 days and 1 year since I got a Stroke. Here comes the next year.

who is the beast of you did you find her when you say of yourself that you are wise and have the Holy Spirit

38 awesome type days aka the great reset.

you're just a fake person waiting to be praised by people

for your speech from your unclean spirit

[BeNotDeceived]

Its been 38 days and 1 year since I got a Stroke. Here comes the next year.

who is the beast of you did you find her when you say of yourself that you are wise and have the Holy Spirit

38 awesome type days aka the great reset.

you're just a fake person waiting to be praised by people

for your speech from your unclean spirit

Who are you, to judge?

[Zion Altman]

who is the beast of you did you find her when you say of yourself that you are wise and have the Holy Spirit

38 awesome type days aka the great reset.

you're just a fake person waiting to be praised by people

for your speech from your unclean spirit

Who are you, to judge?

i see you wrote 0 things came true from your predictions

[EvanLM]

maybe it is ok to judge but perhaps you should keep your judgement to yourself unless you have an express purpose in challenging someones experience.

I'm trying to figure out your point in challenging this and what I can gain from your comment . . . seriously . . this is NOT sarcasm

[EvanLM]

comments are great if I can gain something from them but . . . .

[BeNotDeceived]

38 awesome type days aka the great reset.

you're just a fake person waiting to be praised by people

for your speech from your unclean spirit ...

i see you wrote 0 things came true from your predictions

Orson Scott Card: Seek to be worthy of praise

Thar be a good article for your edification.

Perhaps you're referring to the TimeTable of Doom or Seven Years of Prosperity experiments.

search.php?keywords=36866 will show some of the use and symbolism of said TTOD Number, which includes disruption and total domination of the MOTB. All our righteousness is like filthy rags. Perhaps you consider yourself an infallible washed rag or something like that. Maybe you can explain a wee bit more about what you're talking about, and which earthquake is mine, so I can put a quit claim on it, or something like that.

3*8**

The deception continues to crumble.

[Bronco73idi]

Not a problem. Rats, I was going to ask the "other" person how they found the same conclusion (as to the author of Revelation).

In terms to be brief, Jesus was trying to share something of that specific segment of time as to John the Baptist's purpose, then & in the future. At the moment, Jesus was making a specific response that even though Jesus was the Sun (aka Son), John was the Moon which many cultures reflect as the Diviner or signifying of sign to come. Jesus & John were sent as Messengers of the Light- representative of the Sun & Moon. While the Sun has its own light, the Moon does not, it simply reflects the Light but in a specific clarity. In a sense, like a messenger, one who prepares the way.

As to Aprocrypha, Gnostic, other scriptures around the world, including those of which we refer to as "canonized", each must be read in the Light of Truth, or as some may put it, be it called Holy Spirit or Ruach Elohim aka "The Breath".

Interesting thing that most are not aware of, is that all religions & cultures around the globe have been given a clue concerning the NAME or WORD. And that even includes the Gnostics. While the Christians think the name Jesus is it, this is a Greek rendering, a dilution of the Jewish/Hebrew Tetragrammaton (4 Letters of God- IHVH/JHVH/JHWH/YHVH/YHWH even I-EVE), whis referred to as the Pentagrammaton (5 Letter of Jesus- IH-Sh-VH) which has a 5th letter representative of Shin/Schin which signifies the Ruach Elohim or Holy Spirit, or the Breath of God. It is this principle that can activate the NAME/WORD. The Gnostic equivalent is referred to as IAO or IEU, which is a shortened form from I-AE-UO (Iaeuo), which further references to what it is all about- "The Mystery of the 7 Vowels" speaking of the 7 Greek vowels (the reason only 5 are listed is due to 2 having long & short sounds). This term also shows how the word Jew came to be, IHV/JEU/JEW, not actually derived from Judah as many might think. Of the Tetragrammaton, it is sometimes said that the 4 can be reduced to 3, as the 2nd H is silent. Another reads that the 4th principle is contained within the 3rd. And what many believe to be the Gospel of Christ (or Good News), has much more depth than just the story of Jesus. As most know, John wrote that In the Beginnning was the Logos, which refers to the Sacred Word if looked for in reference books (dictionaries & such). However, Gospel is a compound word derived from "God Spell" originally, which actually means "Divine Word". It is this GOSPEL/LOGOS which will be preached by those allowed the use of its Power. The Gnostics also referred to it as the First Power & as the 7th Power. In other words, the Alpha & Omega. As to the bit about the 3, this can be found in the many Triads around the world, such as Hindu Trimurti(Brahman the Creator/Shiva the Destroyer/Vishnu the Preserver), the Egyptian (IAO = Isis/Apopi-Apepi/Osiris), Hebrew (IHVH/I-EVE), and the Christian Trinity (Father/Holy Spirit/Son). EVE is actually HVH (He/Hai/Hay- Vau/Vav/Vaw-He/Hai/Hay) as to the actual letters, as Vowels were deemed to be too sacred, so Hebrew was basically a consonantal alphabet. These all signify three phases of powers (potency,emanation, or energy), which are that which creates; that which destroys (in actuality, transforms or re-vivifies); and that which saves (redeems or preserves or heals). Each of the 7 Greek vowels (the 7 thunders), are blended into 3 syllables. Those 3 syllables combined are the ONE WORD or NAME. In Hindu scripture one reference states "In the Begining was the VAK/VAC" (Word). But I liked the Welsh creation story, due its unique revealment- "In the Beginning were the Triple-Shouts". And even further describes ..."the VOICE was in 3 tones, three vocalizations, pronounced together at the same moment." Another reference found, explains it to be a "Sound-Vibration-Complex", which in essence is very correct.

As you can see, I leave no stone unturned in seeking the Truth.

Almost forgot the portion concerning Nephi having seen this grand vision, but denied writing it down, is found in the BoM 1st Nephi (LDS 14:9-28/ RLDS-CoC 3:219-252/ 1830 Replica Reprint pp.33-35). I was thinking it was in 2nd Nephi. Plus it mentions the author being John, even though it can be interpreted several ways, unless you realize what is involved here.

I hope this helps a bit.

It took 2 years of personal study on different subjects about John the Baptist. I now do have a personal testament that John the Baptist wrote the book of revelation.

Thank you for planting the seed.

[Lynn]

So many people have taken what has been an assumption, that John the Beloved went to the Isle of Patmos, had the vision, wrote it down, somehow passed it on, then either died there, (or we'uns that believe something occurred to allow him to tarry, as well as the 3 Nephites).. Bt the text states he was in the spirit on the isle, which most do not even catch the hint. Next is that it is noted to be authored by John the Divine. If we look at big dictionaries, and check out the words Beloved & Divine, totally different. Divine indicates a seer par excellence. John the Beloved was never noted as a seer or prophet. In fact, anybody can prophesy, yet not actually be a prophet. However, a seer is quite far beyond that. Many do not realize how long John the Baptist was in jail before being beheaded. When you are incarcerated for quite some time, you tend to get wisked away by taking spiritual journeys. You tend to have a little more time for prayer & meditation.

In the IV of RLDS-CoC (JST), Joseph Smith added some more concerning John the Baptist, as Jesus seemed to indicate just how important a role that John played & will play in the future. He indicates that John is Elijah sent again. But in the AG version of the NT, Jesus explains that John (the Baptist) is the greatest of the seers, and was Elijah in the past. If this is so, then it could be understood better as to LDS D&C which is telling us that some of these things that indicate John is the one to be commissioned to do certain things, instead are saying it will be Elijah. See LDS D&C 77:9 Q&A as well as 14 Q&A & 15 Q&A. I am sure you will look & say, Lynn, no mention of Elijah in 15 Q&A. You are correct. However, in "Seder Olam" from the 1600s, it too is in Q&A format similar to LDS D&C 77 & it concerns who are these two witnesses in Revelation being clothed in sackcloth. The answer is that it will be Elijah & Moses raised up in a body upon the earth.

And in the Gnostic scriptures, two disciples inquire to Jesus that the people wanted then to prophesy. But Jesus explained that head of prophecy was John or with John & its head was removed, which indicates that John was the head of the prophecy department. In the IV of RLDS-CoC (JST), in the first 4 books, it can be seen that both Jesus & John were playing pipes. And that they are associated with being two lights, one with the Sun & the other with the Moon. And we would associate Jesus with the Sun & John with the Moon. The moon is associated with prophecy.