The Mark of the Beast

[andrewkeola]

I feel like none of the prophets have clarified what the mark of the beast truly is or what will be. We could always pray for our personal revelation about it. Im hoping if I stay close to the holy ghost he will guide me in what not to partake in. But I do really wish we had more clarity on the subject.

Tell me if this makes sense.
(I offer this as my opinion only)

Dictionary.com defines "mark" as:
noun
a visible impression or trace on something, as a line, cut, dent, stain, or bruise:
a small mark on his arm.
a badge, brand, or other visible sign assumed or imposed:
a mark of his noble rank.

Going forward with this definition then the 'mark of the beast' would need to be a badge, brand, or visible sign of the beast. The antithesis of the mark is the seal of God.
The "beast" according to the chapter heading is defined as being made up of degenerate earthly kingdoms. (corrupt governements).

The mark is taken in the hand or in the forehead. To me this is done through visible action. The hand is responsible for work and also for manifesting allegience. How can we visibly give allegience to the beast with our hands? By working for or pledging ourselves to the economy of the beast.

The forehead, (head, mind) is responsible for thought, reason, analysis and the application of knowledge. How can we visibly give allegiance to the beast with our forehead? By coming into agreement with the teachings of the beast (lies).

To take upon the mark is to give our mind and/or our labor to the beast. Those who do not (rebel), will be cut off from the economy of the beast -- really easy to do in a digital economy.

Popular ideas as to what the mark is includes things such as imbedded rfid chips, tattoos on the forehead or hand etc. Simply getting a bar code tattoo or an rfid chip doesn't cut it for me because these can be done under duress and doesn't require our will to conform.

The book of revelation is an account of the ongoing war of duality. Understanding this, has made it much easier for me to decipher.

[Bronco73idi]

I feel like none of the prophets have clarified what the mark of the beast truly is or what will be. We could always pray for our personal revelation about it. Im hoping if I stay close to the holy ghost he will guide me in what not to partake in. But I do really wish we had more clarity on the subject.

Tell me if this makes sense.
(I offer this as my opinion only)

Dictionary.com defines "mark" as:
noun
a visible impression or trace on something, as a line, cut, dent, stain, or bruise:
a small mark on his arm.
a badge, brand, or other visible sign assumed or imposed:
a mark of his noble rank.

Going forward with this definition then the 'mark of the beast' would need to be a badge, brand, or visible sign of the beast. The antithesis of the mark is the seal of God.
The "beast" according to the chapter heading is defined as being made up of degenerate earthly kingdoms. (corrupt governements).

The mark is taken in the hand or in the forehead. To me this is done through visible action. The hand is responsible for work and also for manifesting allegience. How can we visibly give allegience to the beast with our hands? By working for or pledging ourselves to the economy of the beast.

The forehead, (head, mind) is responsible for thought, reason, analysis and the application of knowledge. How can we visibly give allegiance to the beast with our forehead? By coming into agreement with the teachings of the beast (lies).

To take upon the mark is to give our mind and/or our labor to the beast. Those who do not (rebel), will be cut off from the economy of the beast -- really easy to do in a digital economy.

Popular ideas as to what the mark is includes things such as imbedded rfid chips, tattoos on the forehead or hand etc. Simply getting a bar code tattoo or an rfid chip doesn't cut it for me because these can be done under duress and doesn't require our will to conform.

The book of revelation is an account of the ongoing war of duality. Understanding this, has made it much easier for me to decipher.

“ To take upon the mark is to give our mind and/or our labor to the beast.”

This is awesome, you say this like we don’t do this already.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

A man = Adam until he repented.

Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord.

[Alaris]

hat tip neverendingthoughts

Michigan Bars, Restaurants Will Require Customer’s Names And Phone Numbers Starting Monday | The Daily Wire

Did I not put the Canada mark of the beast program in this thread yet?

All of your medical & government records linked to your digital wallet - for YOUR convenience. LOL

Folks - REFUSE this in all of its forms. No contact tracing. No vaccines, and no tracing / vaccine / digital wallet programs. Do not participate.Refuse. NO MASKS.

[Lynn]

As to the Mark of the Beast & the number 666, it points to or relates to several things. Most people do not realize the current UPC code is based on a 6 | 6 | 6 numerical setup, even though at appearance it does not seem to be. This was information that came out back in 1997 & 1998, so I would either have to go back to U-3 or U-4 (two of my older computers) to retrieve the data. I am currently using U-6 (w/XP), U-9 (w/W7), and U-10 (w/W10). Anyway, whoever had set it up in this manner knew what they were doing, or did it in some sort of mocking manner, or perhaps in spite of.

Backing up, Revelations was penned by an Out of body vision that John the Baptist had while in jail for well over a year. There is no proof that some claim that John the Beloved was exiled to Partmos & had such a vision, then died. That was the story in the Catholic church but is in question currently. If he tarries, as does the 3 Nephites, that story begins to fail. Even the allusion of its author- John the Divine, gives further proof that it was a highly visionary person, of which was never brought out, as to being inherent of John the Beloved. Another clue is that the magnitude of this vision was of such manner, that after having it, John the Baptist sent some of his disciples (since he had been in & was still in prison) to ask Jesus if he was the one to fulfill the prophecies. It had to do with the magnitude of things seen in the vision that seemed as if it was all Omni-present. Or in this case, to be fulfilled very qwikly (soon). Another clue lies in the Gnostic Gospels in which Jesus speaks to the disciples if they understood that the head of prophecy, was removed with John (symbolic, but in the physical manner also). Anyway, there are only a few of us who realize the true author was John the Baptist. In the NT Inspired Version by Joseph Smith (in the first 4 books), several added entries are made noting Jesus speaking of John the Baptist and how important he was & is. Jesus further explains that he & John have piped unto you, but you have not danced.

Back in those days, certain alphabets were used to a system referred to as gematria, meqaning numerical value. In other words, letters of the alphabet were substituted for numbers. The Hebrew alphabet is one example. There is a reason the basic 22 letter Hebrew alphabet had an added 5 "finals" by Ezra, to make 27 letters. The Torah is written on scrolls without spaces between words or letters. In other words, the letters are continuous. These 5 finals help as to being a sort of marker (for lack of a better term. If the Torah was so sacred & not to be alterred, then why did Ezra do it, except to clarify certain things. Ezra seems to have set it up in 27 letter "strings". In that, if one or maybe two letters,were missing, it can be figured out what letter or letters are missing & be replaced. So 666 is referencing things with a numerical value of this nature, as well as a description of Harmonics. In this 666 is not the true one, but 888 is, as to representation.

Back to the Mark. As to this, it was a chip implanted in the hand. Actually it can be implanted in the forehead also as these two areas for some reason are the best places for recharging the chips. This was information passed to me back in 1997 or 1998. However, these chips in the days ahead, will be of a new manner. They will have biological & viral technology embedded in them. It was found that these chips were superior in many ways. At first, it was to be used to enhance life & people. But the one who developed it, originally decided to help humanity. But sadly, the mantle over him turned dark. He then alterred his path in the worst case scenario, by using it against humanity. In other words, he eventually took control of the system he created with this chip & the linking network. By having this biological/viral engineering in the chip, it could be released as a toxin to eliminate the person (mildly put, he could kill them remotely). I feel this chip will be coming in this decade, perhaps sooner than later in it.

[Bronco73idi]

As to the Mark of the Beast & the number 666, it points to or relates to several things. Most people do not realize the current UPC code is based on a 6 | 6 | 6 numerical setup, even though at appearance it does not seem to be. This was information that came out back in 1997 & 1998, so I would either have to go back to U-3 or U-4 (two of my older computers) to retrieve the data. I am currently using U-6 (w/XP), U-9 (w/W7), and U-10 (w/W10). Anyway, whoever had set it up in this manner knew what they were doing, or did it in some sort of mocking manner, or perhaps in spite of.

Backing up, Revelations was penned by an Out of body vision that John the Baptist had while in jail for well over a year. There is no proof that some claim that John the Beloved was exiled to Partmos & had such a vision, then died. That was the story in the Catholic church but is in question currently. If he tarries, as does the 3 Nephites, that story begins to fail. Even the allusion of its author- John the Divine, gives further proof that it was a highly visionary person, of which was never brought out, as to being inherent of John the Beloved. Another clue is that the magnitude of this vision was of such manner, that after having it, John the Baptist sent some of his disciples (since he had been in & was still in prison) to ask Jesus if he was the one to fulfill the prophecies. It had to do with the magnitude of things seen in the vision that seemed as if it was all Omni-present. Or in this case, to be fulfilled very qwikly (soon). Another clue lies in the Gnostic Gospels in which Jesus speaks to the disciples if they understood that the head of prophecy, was removed with John (symbolic, but in the physical manner also). Anyway, there are only a few of us who realize the true author was John the Baptist. In the NT Inspired Version by Joseph Smith (in the first 4 books), several added entries are made noting Jesus speaking of John the Baptist and how important he was & is. Jesus further explains that he & John have piped unto you, but you have not danced.

Back in those days, certain alphabets were used to a system referred to as gematria, meqaning numerical value. In other words, letters of the alphabet were substituted for numbers. The Hebrew alphabet is one example. There is a reason the basic 22 letter Hebrew alphabet had an added 5 "finals" by Ezra, to make 27 letters. The Torah is written on scrolls without spaces between words or letters. In other words, the letters are continuous. These 5 finals help as to being a sort of marker (for lack of a better term. If the Torah was so sacred & not to be alterred, then why did Ezra do it, except to clarify certain things. Ezra seems to have set it up in 27 letter "strings". In that, if one or maybe two letters,were missing, it can be figured out what letter or letters are missing & be replaced. So 666 is referencing things with a numerical value of this nature, as well as a description of Harmonics. In this 666 is not the true one, but 888 is, as to representation.

Back to the Mark. As to this, it was a chip implanted in the hand. Actually it can be implanted in the forehead also as these two areas for some reason are the best places for recharging the chips. This was information passed to me back in 1997 or 1998. However, these chips in the days ahead, will be of a new manner. They will have biological & viral technology embedded in them. It was found that these chips were superior in many ways. At first, it was to be used to enhance life & people. But the one who developed it, originally decided to help humanity. But sadly, the mantle over him turned dark. He then alterred his path in the worst case scenario, by using it against humanity. In other words, he eventually took control of the system he created with this chip & the linking network. By having this biological/viral engineering in the chip, it could be released as a toxin to eliminate the person (mildly put, he could kill them remotely). I feel this chip will be coming in this decade, perhaps sooner than later in it.

Does no one find it odd that 2 different new members are insisting that John the Baptist is the author of revelation?

I don’t disagree with them or their points, I have not researched enough to agree with them either.

If I made this claim I would tie the evidence that they are giving into the testament of Nephi of John.

[Lynn]

Yes, I realize there is an item noted by Nephi claiming this "John" was one of the 12 Apostles. However, there have been allusions (references made) to state that John the Baptist was somehow tied in with the Lord's Supper, as if by some invisible means. But another one comes to mind- for some reason, the archangel or angel is also referred to as "the Apostle".

Another example of these interesting twists, would be like Levi & Joseph, who were said to bne separate from their brethren. In essence, the tribe of Levi was referred to as the thirteenth. I guess we would have Joseph as 14th. It seems Ephraim & Mannassah were slid into as part of the 12.

I did not know that there was another new member also stating that the author of Revelation was John the Baptist. As I noted, there are very, few indeed who side with me. If I recall, in one round of online resaerch a few years back, I was surprised that there were at least two scholars who also see it the way I do.

But for the moment, let me look behind me to see if I have that reference found in the Gnostic Gospels concerning the item of Jesus speaking of John the Baptist. My personal library consists of well over 5000 volume count. Hmm, I already breezed thru 2 Gnostic volumes, but did not find it. Let me check my Book Notes. OK, found it.

Book Notes from August 1988 ... 'The Secret Teachings of Jesus: 4 Gnostic Gospels' by Marvin Meyer 1984/1986 (BT 1390 S43 1986) published by Vintage Bks.-
In the portion of The Secret Book of James 4:1-4, found on p.7-
+++++++++++++++
'Then I asked, "Lord, how can we prophesy to those who ask us to prophesy to them? For many people ask us, and expect to hear a sermon from us." The Lord answered and said, "Do you not know that the head of prophecy was removed with John?" I said, "Lord, is it indeed possible to take away the the head of prophecy?" The Lord said to me, "When you realize what the head is, and that prophecy comes from the head, then understand what this means: its head was taken away." '
++++++++++++++++

Also, a further note concerning the Grand Vision that is presented in the Book of Revelation. As you know, Nephi was granted this vision long before the life of Jesus, but was told not to write it, as it was reserved for John to do so. Then, as I noted, John the Baptist had this vision & wrote it down while in prison. I bring that up, because of yet another who was granted to see it as well. But as you may or may not know, several scholars believe this vision was fulfilled shartly after Jesus' time in the first century. However, hardly anybody knows, but Nostradamus was also allowed to see this vision. If it was fulfilled back in the 1st Century, then of what use would it be in the 1500s? Unless there was a fulfillment, or a later major fulfillment.

One finding for the portion of Wormwood found in the book of Revelation is that the Ukrainian word for Wormwood (a weed that is native there) is "Chernobyl". Yes, the nuclear plant there burned in 1986. Chernobyl is upriver from Kiev (Ukraine's capital).

[Bronco73idi]

Yes, I realize there is an item noted by Nephi claiming this "John" was one of the 12 Apostles. However, there have been allusions (references made) to state that John the Baptist was somehow tied in with the Lord's Supper, as if by some invisible means. But another one comes to mind- for some reason, the archangel or angel is also referred to as "the Apostle".

Another example of these interesting twists, would be like Levi & Joseph, who were said to bne separate from their brethren. In essence, the tribe of Levi was referred to as the thirteenth. I guess we would have Joseph as 14th. It seems Ephraim & Mannassah were slid into as part of the 12.

I did not know that there was another new member also stating that the author of Revelation was John the Baptist. As I noted, there are very, few indeed who side with me. If I recall, in one round of online resaerch a few years back, I was surprised that there were at least two scholars who also see it the way I do.

But for the moment, let me look behind me to see if I have that reference found in the Gnostic Gospels concerning the item of Jesus speaking of John the Baptist. My personal library consists of well over 5000 volume count. Hmm, I already breezed thru 2 Gnostic volumes, but did not find it. Let me check my Book Notes. OK, found it.

Book Notes from August 1988 ... 'The Secret Teachings of Jesus: 4 Gnostic Gospels' by Marvin Meyer 1984/1986 (BT 1390 S43 1986) published by Vintage Bks.-
In the portion of The Secret Book of James 4:1-4, found on p.7-
+++++++++++++++
'Then I asked, "Lord, how can we prophesy to those who ask us to prophesy to them? For many people ask us, and expect to hear a sermon from us." The Lord answered and said, "Do you not know that the head of prophecy was removed with John?" I said, "Lord, is it indeed possible to take away the the head of prophecy?" The Lord said to me, "When you realize what the head is, and that prophecy comes from the head, then understand what this means: its head was taken away." '
++++++++++++++++

Also, a further note concerning the Grand Vision that is presented in the Book of Revelation. As you know, Nephi was granted this vision long before the life of Jesus, but was told not to write it, as it was reserved for John to do so. Then, as I noted, John the Baptist had this vision & wrote it down while in prison. I bring that up, because of yet another who was granted to see it as well. But as you may or may not know, several scholars believe this vision was fulfilled shartly after Jesus' time in the first century. However, hardly anybody knows, but Nostradamus was also allowed to see this vision. If it was fulfilled back in the 1st Century, then of what use would it be in the 1500s? Unless there was a fulfillment, or a later major fulfillment.

One finding for the portion of Wormwood found in the book of Revelation is that the Ukrainian word for Wormwood (a weed that is native there) is "Chernobyl". Yes, the nuclear plant there burned in 1986. Chernobyl is upriver from Kiev (Ukraine's capital).

I know about wormwood and Chernobyl.

I will admit I’m not a fan of “The Gnostics” texts. I’m sure like the apocrypha you need to let the sprit guide you through for the truth.

The part you quoted doesn’t ring true for me.

“ When you realize what the head is, and that prophecy comes from the head, then understand what this means: its head was taken away."

Wouldn’t that imply that Joesph Smith could not prophesy?


I was wrong about 2 new members having this view point. You posted a version of this in another thread.

Don’t get me wrong, I find this interesting and don’t disagree.

[Lynn]

Not a problem. Rats, I was going to ask the "other" person how they found the same conclusion (as to the author of Revelation).

In terms to be brief, Jesus was trying to share something of that specific segment of time as to John the Baptist's purpose, then & in the future. At the moment, Jesus was making a specific response that even though Jesus was the Sun (aka Son), John was the Moon which many cultures reflect as the Diviner or signifying of sign to come. Jesus & John were sent as Messengers of the Light- representative of the Sun & Moon. While the Sun has its own light, the Moon does not, it simply reflects the Light but in a specific clarity. In a sense, like a messenger, one who prepares the way.

As to Aprocrypha, Gnostic, other scriptures around the world, including those of which we refer to as "canonized", each must be read in the Light of Truth, or as some may put it, be it called Holy Spirit or Ruach Elohim aka "The Breath".

Interesting thing that most are not aware of, is that all religions & cultures around the globe have been given a clue concerning the NAME or WORD. And that even includes the Gnostics. While the Christians think the name Jesus is it, this is a Greek rendering, a dilution of the Jewish/Hebrew Tetragrammaton (4 Letters of God- IHVH/JHVH/JHWH/YHVH/YHWH even I-EVE), whis referred to as the Pentagrammaton (5 Letter of Jesus- IH-Sh-VH) which has a 5th letter representative of Shin/Schin which signifies the Ruach Elohim or Holy Spirit, or the Breath of God. It is this principle that can activate the NAME/WORD. The Gnostic equivalent is referred to as IAO or IEU, which is a shortened form from I-AE-UO (Iaeuo), which further references to what it is all about- "The Mystery of the 7 Vowels" speaking of the 7 Greek vowels (the reason only 5 are listed is due to 2 having long & short sounds). This term also shows how the word Jew came to be, IHV/JEU/JEW, not actually derived from Judah as many might think. Of the Tetragrammaton, it is sometimes said that the 4 can be reduced to 3, as the 2nd H is silent. Another reads that the 4th principle is contained within the 3rd. And what many believe to be the Gospel of Christ (or Good News), has much more depth than just the story of Jesus. As most know, John wrote that In the Beginnning was the Logos, which refers to the Sacred Word if looked for in reference books (dictionaries & such). However, Gospel is a compound word derived from "God Spell" originally, which actually means "Divine Word". It is this GOSPEL/LOGOS which will be preached by those allowed the use of its Power. The Gnostics also referred to it as the First Power & as the 7th Power. In other words, the Alpha & Omega. As to the bit about the 3, this can be found in the many Triads around the world, such as Hindu Trimurti(Brahman the Creator/Shiva the Destroyer/Vishnu the Preserver), the Egyptian (IAO = Isis/Apopi-Apepi/Osiris), Hebrew (IHVH/I-EVE), and the Christian Trinity (Father/Holy Spirit/Son). EVE is actually HVH (He/Hai/Hay- Vau/Vav/Vaw-He/Hai/Hay) as to the actual letters, as Vowels were deemed to be too sacred, so Hebrew was basically a consonantal alphabet. These all signify three phases of powers (potency,emanation, or energy), which are that which creates; that which destroys (in actuality, transforms or re-vivifies); and that which saves (redeems or preserves or heals). Each of the 7 Greek vowels (the 7 thunders), are blended into 3 syllables. Those 3 syllables combined are the ONE WORD or NAME. In Hindu scripture one reference states "In the Begining was the VAK/VAC" (Word). But I liked the Welsh creation story, due its unique revealment- "In the Beginning were the Triple-Shouts". And even further describes ..."the VOICE was in 3 tones, three vocalizations, pronounced together at the same moment." Another reference found, explains it to be a "Sound-Vibration-Complex", which in essence is very correct.

As you can see, I leave no stone unturned in seeking the Truth.

Almost forgot the portion concerning Nephi having seen this grand vision, but denied writing it down, is found in the BoM 1st Nephi (LDS 14:9-28/ RLDS-CoC 3:219-252/ 1830 Replica Reprint pp.33-35). I was thinking it was in 2nd Nephi. Plus it mentions the author being John, even though it can be interpreted several ways, unless you realize what is involved here.

I hope this helps a bit.

[harp master]

There's no doubt that tribulation will affect just about everyone of earth. I'm not convinced that there's a one world government, one world religion, global dictator, and globally imposed 'mark of the beast' coming upon every major nation on earth.

One of the most troubling teachings in eschatology is that Daniel's 4th beast represents the same thing as the Revelation 13 and 17 beasts. I see them as three 'different' kingdoms or organizations. I'm convinced that Islam is the religion of these beast.

We know a New World order is coming, but is it prophesied in the bible? I'm not sure it is. I tend to believe the push for globalism and the NWO is what will cause the Middle East to unite into two different Caliphates. One Sunni - the King of the South, and one Shia/Iran - the King of the north. (Daniel 11). The idea that the Revelation 13 beast is the UN is conceivable. What seems to work against that is the religious aspect of the two horned beast causing people to worship it - the UN - and the lying signs and wonders attributed to it.

Concerning the mark

There's not a figurative meaning for the word 'mark' in the NT. It's a literal mark that is ON the skin NOT in it. It's a literal, etched, engraved, stamped, imprinted, carved, sculptured, or scratched mark. Nearly every translation uses the words 'on or upon' the right hand, etc. The word ON is also found in the interlinear. A few examples...

The NKJV corrected that blunder...

He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

NIV It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,

ESV Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,

RSV Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,

This is 'word for word' how Revelation 13:16 appears in the Textus Receptus which the KJV was translated from.
The KJV has omitted the article 6 times, so I'm posting the link to the interlinear, so you don't think I'm making this up.

www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInter.../rev13.pdf

V. 16 And he's making all 'the' small ones and 'the' great ones and 'the' rich ones and 'the' poor and 'the' free and 'the' slaves.

Vines, ...
"Used with the article, it means the whole of one object (ge/earth/region). In the plural it signifies the totality of the persons or things referred to."

It is in the plural so 'what's the OBJECT' and WHO is the verse referring to?

The object is NOT the entire world. The object is HE between verses 11 and 16 and "all the power of the first beast before him." AKA - the Islamic false prophet, and the KINGDOM that HE and his sidekick anti-Christ represent. And the 'totality of persons referred to' are ALL those within the anti-Christ kingdom. This in no way implies a global mark within a global kingdom.

The mark is imposed upon EVERY class of people mentioned in verse 16 - "within the region and kingdom of this beast," NOT the entire planet, will be subject to this mark. It's only those under the authority of and within the kingdom and region of the false prophet and anti-Christ.  This passage in no way implies a global mark.

There are two main words for ALL in the NT, 'pas' and 'holos,' and they are used 7-8 different ways. I can quote over a dozen verses where ALL doesn't mean EVERYTHING but only everything WITHIN one object. The definition of ALL often depends on whether 'pas or holos' is used, the context, and other words the word 'all' describes, - and whether or not the article is used with it.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the 'earth';

...and causeth the 'earth' and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast,

And deceiveth them that dwell on the 'earth'...

The word EARTH is 'gē' and its primary meaning is NOT the earth as a whole but...

arable land
the ground, the earth as a standing place

the main land as opposed to the sea or water

The word 'earth' in the verses above - from which the two horned beast is said to rise out of - is the word ge which often doesn't indicate the entire planet but a region or 'something' within it.

That word ALL in verse 3 is 'holos' and it means the 'entirety of the whole'. (entire planet)

The word all in Rev. 13:16 is the word 'pas' which means individually.

"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Verse 3 is the only place in the NT where the word 'gē ' is translated WORLD by the KJV. (for some reason)
'Pas' often does not imply the entirety of something and has a very limited meaning. It often means 'everything of one object within something'.

[Alaris]

.

[Niemand]

I have heard a number of things described as the Mark of the Beast. Here's my ranking from most plausible (in my view) to least plausible.

* Microchip implant in skin.
* Tattoo of some kind or fluorescent dye.
* Injection into the arm, or medication up nose. (The word "cheir" means arm as well as hand, although most Bible dictionaries do not mention this.) I see the current injections as a precursor.
viewtopic.php?t=62525
* Ritual scarring.
* A Bindi type thing, which Hindus put on their foreheads. This fits with the worship aspect.

* Metaphorical allegiance in head and heart. (Possible)
* The general monetary system.
* Ashes as applied by Catholic church on Ash Wednesday. I doubt this one as it is temporary and only at a certain time of the year.

* Sunday Worship (I can see the argument for worship on a Saturday, but not how it relates to the mark. Common among 7DAs as you'd expect.)

[harp master]

"It's funny, Bible dictionaries don't (to my knowledge) mention that this word can mean the arm too, but dictionaries of non-Biblical Classical Greek do/" and..."So this word was being used outside the Bible in Greek for the arm!"

Nearly every translations says 'ON' - Take a look...
NKJV He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

NIV It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,

ESV Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,

RSV Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,

ASV And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead;

YLT And it maketh all, the small, and the great, and the rich, and the poor, and the freemen, and the servants, that it may give to them a mark upon their right hand or upon their foreheads,

Darby And it causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bondmen, that they should give them a mark upon their right hand or upon their forehead;

NASB And he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,

The word hand/dexios can refer to 'the right side' and the root word for hand 'dechomai' doesn't mention the 'arm.'

If the word 'dexios' is used and defined as ARM OUTSIDE the biblical narrative, that would negate it as a plausible consideration in any inspired text. In my view that's how interpretations go wrong. The only figurative meaning of 'ARM' is that of power/authority or 'approval' like in ..."the right hand" of fellowship,"

There is NO figurative meaning of the word 'mark' in the NT. It's a literal, etched, engraved, stamped, imprinted, carved, sculptured, or scratched mark ON the skin not IN it!

My contention is the Revelation 13 mark is a literal mark ON the skin, the word 'mark' can imply the right side, but in Revelation 13:16 it has nothing to do with the right arm.

The biggest abomination of an interpretation on the 'mark' is the Seventh Day Adventists teaching that it's a national Sunday law.

The Islamic zebiba or 'raisin' is a patch of hardened skin that forms on the forehead of fanatical Muslims from repeatedly hitting the mat. A Muslim's forehead hits the mat at least 35 times a day in submission to Allah resulting in over a million prostrations in a lifetime.  This could be what we call the mark of the beast.  It will not be worldwide but limited to Muslim dominated countries and possibly only within the ten nation Islamic Empire of the beast.

https://www.google.com/search?q=zebiba+ ... client=img

Most people don't know the significance of the "right hand" and forehead in Islam. It's a Muslim's 'clean hand.'
The forehead and the right hand have significance in Islam.  They wear turbans and the forehead is figurative of honor and dignity.  The harlot of Revelation 17 has Babylon the Great written on her forehead, and fanatical Muslim's like to show off their zebiba.
 
The two horned beast imposes the mark and those horns likely represent the two major sects of Islam 'Sunni and Shia' and the Islamic false prophet - probably the Mahdi. Every verse of end-time prophecy in the Old and New Testament mention nations that are Arab, Persian, and Islamic today.

[Niemand]

None of the translations use arm, but it is there in Liddell & Scott's dictionary of classical Greek. That makes sense, since the Tefillin are famously tied to either the arm or the forehead. They appear to have been in use in Jesus' time.

Be aware that some of these translations are corrupt, especially the NIV which was compiled by people with agendas.

Psalm 137.5
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning."

Most people don't know the significance of the "right hand" and forehead in Islam. It's a Muslim's 'clean hand.'

Yes, because they wipe their backside with the other and eat with that one.

My contention is the Revelation 13 mark is a literal mark ON the skin, the word 'mark' can imply the right side, but in Revelation 13:16 it has nothing to do with the right arm.

I actually think, ironically, that Islam is one of the main impediments to globalism just now. Many of its followers think the west is, rightly, under Satanic control.

The word charagma used for mark appears to be cognate with the Greek word for pale (as in paliside) or spike.

[harp master]

The NIV is a superior translation compared to the KJV because it had documents the KJV translators did NOT have like the 900 plus fragments of Dead Sea Scrolls etc. The KJV translators were biased Trinitarians and notorious for ADDIND words to the text. The NIV has verses missing because they used those Dead Sea Scrolls which the KJV translators did not have. The KJV translators added many words and entire verses which were later found to be late additions to the text. The NIV isn't the only translation that omits a verse. Several other translations did the right thing by omitting or adding a word or verse. Why does the NIV Bible omit or have missing verses?
_____________________________________________________________________________________

The Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), the team of translators responsible for the New International Version (NIV) Bible, is composed of world-class scholars and leaders in their respective fields. Their goal is to accurately translate the Word of God in a way that enables readers and listeners to hear the Bible as it was originally written, and understand the Bible as it was originally intended.

From the beginning, the translators have been committed to getting the words right. That means being true to the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic of the Bible while at the same time capturing the Bible’s original meaning in natural, everyday English. Each NIV translator believes that the Bible is God’s inspired Word. That conviction, along with their years of studying biblical languages, has helped them capture the depth of meaning in the Bible in a way that is accurate, clear, and trustworthy.

When comparing the NIV with the King James Version (KJV), it would seem that there are some verses “missing” in the NIV (and other trusted translations such as the CEV, CSB, ESV, GNB, HCSB, NET, NLT, etc.). Actually, that is not the case. In 1611, the translators of the KJV used the best resources available to them at that time. For their day, the King James translation was a monumental achievement. However, one of its shortcomings is that the KJV translation committee of 50 scholars drew heavily on William Tyndale’s New Testament. As much as 80% of Tyndale’s translation is reused in the King James version. Tyndale used several sources in his translation of the Old and New Testaments. For the New Testament, he referred to the third edition (1522) of Desiderius Erasmus’s Greek New Testament, often referred to as the Textus Receptus (“Received Text”).

In the years since 1611, many older manuscripts have been discovered and carefully evaluated by scholars. Their conclusion is that the older manuscripts are more reliable. This has given modern translators unprecedented access to manuscripts much closer in time to the original documents. Therefore, translations such as the NIV actually reflect better Bible scholarship than was available in 1611 when the KJV was published.

The verses or phrases that appeared in the KJV, but have been “omitted” in most trusted translations today, are not found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts. Modern translators include or reference them in footnotes. These footnotes are intended to help the reader understand that certain perceived differences in the text are due to improved biblical scholarship. The treatment of these verses has not changed recently and reflects a consensus among the majority of Bible scholars.

It is important and comforting to note that no doctrines of the Christian faith are affected by differences between the KJV and translations such as the NIV that follow more reliable sources.

[Niemand]

The NIV is a superior translation compared to the KJV

I suggest you read up on the people in the NIV committee. They designed that Bible so it would agree with their viewpoints just like the Douay-Rheims & Jerusalem version for the Catholics and the New World Translation for the JWs.

Other than that, the NIV is stylistically bad. Maybe not so much as the Good News Bible, but noticeably so. The big problem with the KJV is archaism, but it is often written with an artistic turn of phrase and few of the modern versions manage that, in fact they very often mangle it into the ugliest forms of English. (My votes for the ugliest versions are the NWT (JW) and the Scholars' Version)

The NIV is bad stylistically, and spiritually since it is clear many do not have a relationship with our saviour and do not believe in God in some cases (or barely so.)

because it had documents the KJV translators did NOT have like the 900 plus fragments of Dead Sea Scrolls etc. The KJV translators were biased Trinitarians and notorious for ADDIND words to the text.

That is common when translating Hebrew, because it is very concise. The Ten Commandments are literally the likes of "no(t) steal" in Hebrew, which doesn't read well in English. In Greek, there are issues, because certain things don't carry well over into English like the aorist etc.

Here are the Ten Commandments in Hebrew. The word on the right is "lo" (לֹא) which just means "no(t)".


The NIV committee are extremely biased. Suggest you read up on them. It is a very woke translation and deliberately so. They often translate the same words differently to put that point across.

It's interesting exactly what they do omit, because it suits their agenda. As someone pointed out, just because something is buried in the ground doesn't make it authentic. Some of the Dead Sea Scrolls are either corrupt or heretical, as are some of those found in Egypt and elsewhere. People two thousand years ago didn't like to destroy the name of God, so they would often bury corrupt or heretical versions. The age isn't always a hallmark of authenticity. Some people had agendas back then too. One should pray over these things as always.

[Niemand]

The multitude of English Bible translations has become a veritable Babel. Some of them are better than others, but it is worth pointing out the kinds of things they leave out. It is safe to say they have corrupted Christian churches in the English speaking world, which is why so many are lukewarm. (I am not endorsing this particular pastor, but he is right here.)

[harp master]

The translations that most reflected the viewpoints of the translators were the KJV, the NWT, and the Douay-Rheims. The KJV was especially translated from corrupted text just like the Douay-Rheims. The KJV is especially biased toward Trinitarianism and have mistranslated several words to suit their bias. An example of that is the addition of the word HELL.

[harp master]

I've seen similar list before. Modern translations have left out certain passages because they were NOT found in the oldest manuscripts. Every translation is good for reading. The more Christians badmouth translations and label them 'Babel' the more the unbelieving world looks at Christianity as hypocritical and bogus.

[Niemand]

The translations that most reflected the viewpoints of the translators were the KJV, the NWT, and the Douay-Rheims. The KJV was especially translated from corrupted text just like the Douay-Rheims. The KJV is especially biased toward Trinitarianism and have mistranslated several words to suit their bias. An example of that is the addition of the word HELL.

The NIV highly reflects the views of those responsible. It diminishes the role of Christ, and reflects modern middle class mores and agnosticism/atheism. Not a coincidence.

The KJV's main weakness is that it plays down alcoholism since James VI was a drunkard. The NIV downplays promiscuity among other things, and salvation/punishment.

There are several words translated as Hell. Sheol and Gehenna being two. Gehenna fits the bill.

[Niemand]

I've seen similar list before. Modern translations have left out certain passages because they were NOT found in the oldest manuscripts. Every translation is good for reading. The more Christians badmouth translations and label them 'Babel' the more the unbelieving world looks at Christianity as hypocritical and bogus.

What is Babel? It is a confusion of voices.

That is exactly what it is here. When it comes to the KJV, I have seen the verses in question before at some point (since I've read it all - KJV Apocrypha included), and they are often written in a form I can memorise. However, the new versions have a multiplicity of wordings, meaning people end up misquoting the Bible more often or not even realising they are on the same verse.

NIV has made the strongest attempt to become the new English language standard. But its perversions of scripture, poor style and godless bias make it a bad choice.

Modern translations have left out certain passages because they were NOT found in the oldest manuscripts

You missed out the word "available".

No one has the oldest manuscripts. The originals have gone. Some of the oldest manuscripts are gnostic or represent other diversions.

I'm interested in non-canonical scriptures but I take them with a pinch of salt. Ditto these new translations.

[harp master]

NIV has made the strongest attempt to become the new English language standard. But its perversions of scripture, poor style and godless bias make it a bad choice.

That's precisely what the evil ones want unbelievers to hear. AND! It's NOT true!

There're no translations more biased and perverted than the KJV, the Douay, and NWT.

[Niemand]

NIV has made the strongest attempt to become the new English language standard. But its perversions of scripture, poor style and godless bias make it a bad choice.

That's precisely what the evil ones want unbelievers to hear. AND! It's NOT true!

There're no translations more biased and perverted than the KJV, the Douay, and NWT.

Jerusalem, New Jerusalem... could name a few others.

But the KJV, Douay Rheims and NWT were all translated by people who were believers or claimed to be. Yes, even the NWT. The NIV included people who are not Christian, and live ungodly lifestyles, which is why their fingerprints is all over that translation. The Bible should be translated by believers who pray for inspiration and help, not agnostics/atheistd who wish to undermine it.

Their omissions suit their personal beliefs, andnare deliberate. The NIV is a godless Bible which plays down anything modern middle class westerners feel uncomfortable with. Hell. Salvation through Christ. Faith. Redemption. Sin. And so on.

Nothing to scare the horses, or the children.

Did I mention I encountered one of the NIV crowd when she visited Scotland from the States? I saw her give a series of ?five lectures, in which she would go on about how wonderful Hinduism was, with barely a mention of Christ. Now I appreciate some stuff in Hindu writings, but she had gone right over to that side. While pretending as a Methodist, it was clear she had abandoned the Christian gospel almost entirely. She had adopted the peculiarly Brahminical style of obfuscation, which is designed to make everyone think they agree on something, by blurring terms... I knew it well from elsewhere, from real Hindus. Her wife, or whatever she was, with her, a virtual clone of her. I actually stood up and rebuked her in the Question and Answer session afterwards for her complete lack of belief and asked her how she could still claim to be Christian. (Not that she made a good Hindu either, talk about falling between two stools.)

I don't think she forgot that trip in a hurry. She probably thought I was a complete nutcase. But she didn't get the cosy bourgeois echo chamber she was expecting either. I might have even snapped some of the other people there out of it, and alienated a few.

[harp master]

The NIV included people who are not Christian, and live ungodly lifestyles, which is why their fingerprints is all over that translation. The Bible should be translated by believers who pray for inspiration and help, not agnostics/atheistd who wish to undermine it.

NOT TRUE! Makes me wonder why you make such a false claim!
Meet the NIV Translators!
https://www.thenivbible.com/about-the-n ... anslators/

Behind the NIV Bible stands a world-class team of biblical scholars: the Committee on Bible Translation (CBT). CBT members bring decades of Bible translation experience to their work, along with an unshakeable commitment to God’s Word. Their efforts, which began in 1965, continue to this day, ensuring an accurate, faithful Bible translation for generations to come.

Dr. Douglas Moo, Chair
Wessner Chair of Biblical Studies, Wheaton College Ph.D. University of St. Andrews Affiliation: College Church, Wheaton, IL

Dr. Mark L. Strauss, Vice-Chair
University Professor of New Testament, Bethel Seminary San Diego
Ph.D. University of Aberdeen
Affiliation: Converge Worldwide (formerly Baptist General Conference)

Dr. Michael J. Williams
Emeritus Senior Professor in Old Testament Studies at Calvin Theological Seminary
Ph.D. University of Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Christian Reformed Church

Rev. Dr. Mark Boda
Professor of Old Testament at McMaster Divinity College, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Ph.D. University of Cambridge
Affiliation: Christian and Missionary Alliance (Canada)

Dr. Jeannine K. Brown
Professor of New Testament, Bethel Seminary
Ph.D. Luther Seminary
Affiliation: Converge Worldwide (formerly Baptist General Conference

Dr. Simon Gathercole
Reader in New Testament Studies, University of Cambridge Ph.D. University of Durham Affiliation: Eden Baptist Church, Cambridge

Dr. Richard Hess
Distinguished Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages, Denver Seminary
Ph.D. Hebrew Union College
Affiliation: Cumberland Presbyterian Church

Rev. Dr. David Instone-Brewer, Secretary
Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and New Testament, Tyndale House Ph.D. University of Cambridge Affiliation: Baptist Union of Great Britain

Dr. Bill Mounce
President, BiblicalTraining.org
Founder, Teknia.com
Ph.D. University of Aberdeen
Affiliation: Nondenominational

Dr. Sandra Richter
Robert H. Gundry Chair of Biblical Studies at Westmont College
Harvard University PhD, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary MA.
Affiliation: Santa Barbara Community Church

Rev. Dr. Andrew G. Shead
Head of Old Testament Studies, Moore Theological College, Sydney
Ph.D. University of Cambridge
Affiliation: Anglican Church of Australia, Diocese of Syndey

Rev. Dr. Paul Swarup
Pr Presbyter in Charge of Green Park Free Church, Diocese of Delhi, Church of North India (CNI)
Ph.D. University of Cambridge
Affiliation: Church of North India

Dr. Bruce Waltke
Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at Regent College
Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Knox Theological Seminary
Ph.D. Harvard University
Affiliation: Anglican Church in North America

Dr. Daniel B. Wallace
Senior Research Professor of New Testament Studies, Dallas Theological Seminary
Executive Director, Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts
Ph.D. Dallas Theological Seminary
Affiliation: Presbyterian Church in America

https://www.thenivbible.com/about-the-n ... anslators/

[Robin Hood]

NIV has made the strongest attempt to become the new English language standard. But its perversions of scripture, poor style and godless bias make it a bad choice.

That's precisely what the evil ones want unbelievers to hear. AND! It's NOT true!

There're no translations more biased and perverted than the KJV, the Douay, and NWT.

Totally disgree. The NIV might be easier to read, but that's about all it's got going for it. The KJV has stood the test of time.

[harp master]

NIV has made the strongest attempt to become the new English language standard. But its perversions of scripture, poor style and godless bias make it a bad choice.

That's precisely what the evil ones want unbelievers to hear. AND! It's NOT true!

There're no translations more biased and perverted than the KJV, the Douay, and NWT.

Totally disgree. The NIV might be easier to read, but that's about all it's got going for it. The KJV has stood the test of time.

Again, I will remind you that the KJV translators didn't have the 900 plus papyri documents the NIV translators did. Those documents confirmed KJV additions and were corrected by most of the modern translations. The New KJV reflects those corrections and is far superior translation than the original Authorized KJV.