LDS Freedom Forum

I haven't put together any timelines or anything but generally speaking, what do you guys think is next up to bat? I read in another post that a pandemic is up next (according to Skousen's book?). It would appear to me that financial collapse might seem obvious but what comes next? Martial law? nuclear strike and then invasion? natural disasters? callout? Here is my opinion of an a rudimentary order of events but I am still very much researching/forming an opinion:

-Financial collapse
-drought/famine/commerce stops
-callout
-war/invasion
-pandemic/great upheavals/natural disasters
-saints save constitution
-saints journey build up new jerusalem

any additions or modifications? I know there are a lot of things being left out inbetween these events.

lamanite, which Skousen book are you referencing?

My own opinion is that we'll be brought down from internal causes...collapse of our economy followed by civil unrest (or worse). We'll dissolve into anarchy as people starve and roam in gangs. Then other nations (Russia and China) launch an attack, partly nuclear. It is then those who are left and uphold the Constitutional laws will fight the invaders and after much loss, we'll finally prevail.

Or our economy will fall. We'll go into a deep depression. There will be rioting and martial law. But people will become anarchists and wholesale slaughter will commence. The NWO won't work. China and Russia will attack us. Then they will turn on each other. LDS will be gathered in to places of safety and begin to build the New Jerusalem. Then things really get dicey for the rest of the world.

Man, I really don't know. But it's going to be interesting.....

-Financial collapse
-drought/famine/commerce stops
-callout
-war/invasion
-pandemic/great upheavals/natural disasters
-saints save constitution
-saints journey build up new jerusalem

-Financial collapse
-callout , Some saints will be led to safety.
-pandemic/great upheavals/natural disasters
-drought/famine/commerce stops
-war/invasion -saints journey build up new jerusalem -saints save constitution
The last three I believe will happen together

Here’s my 2 cents worth, which won’t even buy candy anymore.

1.Financial Collapse. The government by trying to “fix” our economy will turn the recession into “The Greater Depression.”
2.Commercial Collapse. With no manufacturing base, America will suffer more now than it did in the 30s.
3.Collapse of Governments around the world. You can see this in the news already beginning. The State Dept put out a warning a few days ago that both Mexico and Pakistan are threatened by inside pressure of collapse. There is also unrest and riots in some of the ex-soviet states over the government’s mishandling of their economies. This is only the beginning.
4.World War III.
5.The last three events will cause famine which in turn will bring disease and plagues.
6.The Church, during these crises, will urge the members to unite for purposes of protection, share food and cooperation. Gatherings will take place where needed. First in Stakes then Regions. Will there be a general “Call-out”? I don’t know. That depends on how bad it gets and if it is God’s will. If it gets as bad as some prophecies I have read from Brigham Young and some of the Apostles of his time then yes there will be a gathering of the Saints to the Rockies and eventually to the New Jerusalem.
7.The Times of the Gentiles will come to an end and the missionaries are called home. Two Apostles will be sent to Israel to begin the preaching to the Jews.
8.From the ashes of WW III and of the economic collapse will come an attempt to form a world momentary system and some type of UN that will have enforcement powers or worse, some type of global governance (NWO?).
9.The Saints in the Rockies will be the last place in the US that will continue to uphold the Constitution. Even freedom loving non-members will rally to the flag. The rest will sacrifice there freedoms for the good of peace and prosperity that will be promised to the sheeple by whomever takes over and becomes the “savior” to the world. I have my guess who that is. He will be a “messiah” figure to the sheeple. The Saints will be cut off and will have to rely on themselves for everything.
How many years will this take? 5, 10, I don’t know but 5 at least and very likely more.
This is as far as I can go with my 2 cents worth. When does Adam-ondi-omin occur? We know that the New Jerusalem will be built and that Israel will be attacked for 3 ½ years by Gog and Christ will appear to the Jews there. Have I forgotten anything?

OMD

I think we shouldn't leave out Heber C. Kimball's quote, "all true latter day saints will be tested to the limit. Many would apostatize and others would stand still, not knowing what to do". "...the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous part of them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes." HCK says persecution will precede the period of internal US civil strife. I think persecution is next because Boyd K. Packer's talk "The Test" seems to prophesy of that...his message seemed to indicate that the early saints were persecuted, took it, and still upheld the constitution. BKP also gave a talk in Jan 2007 at BYU (Lehi's Dream...) where he talked about not being on the side of the mockers. He told the students twice to emphasize his point. There is a scripture in the NT that states there will be mockers in the last time. I think it is somewhere in Thessalonians. Then I hear Elder Jeffrey R. Holland tell the youth on New Years that some things are worth dying for...stand up and defend the truth type stuff. All these things seem to indicate persecution. So I think we need to prepare for that.

[From haddomr ;
I think we shouldn't leave out Heber C. Kimball's quote, "all true latter day saints will be tested to the limit. Many would apostatize and others would stand still, not knowing what to do". "...the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous part of them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes." HCK says persecution will precede the period of internal US civil strife. I think persecution is next because Boyd K. Packer's talk "The Test" seems to prophesy of that...his message seemed to indicate that the early saints were persecuted, took it, and still upheld the constitution. BKP also gave a talk in Jan 2007 at BYU (Lehi's Dream...) where he talked about not being on the side of the mockers. He told the students twice to emphasize his point. There is a scripture in the NT that states there will be mockers in the last time. I think it is somewhere in Thessalonians. Then I hear Elder Jeffrey R. Holland tell the youth on New Years that some things are worth dying for...stand up and defend the truth type stuff. All these things seem to indicate persecution. So I think we need to prepare for that.]

Haddomr, have you thought on which form the persecution will be?

I believe that as the world, and especially as our society grows more wicked by the day, that the divide between the righteous and the wicked will become greater and greater. The three topics that may cause this persecution will be; abortion, homosexuality, and pornography.

It looks like the Congress will pass a bill that will negate all of the laws that restrict abortion, such as partial-birth, waiting periods, parental notification etc. Obama also signed an executive order to allow federal funds for over seas abortions.

We have seen already how our stance on homosexuality can bring persecution. In an Obama administration this will only increase. I predict that he will get rid of “don’t ask don’t tell” and allow open homosexuality in the military. There will also be a push to FORSE churches to marry homosexuals and punish the churches who don’t by taking away their tax free status. The Church will continue to fight for Man/Woman marriages. How will the new Progressive Government we have react to this? I assure you, not in a positive manner.

Pornography is a horrible scourge in the world and especially amongst the members of the Church. It saps the Spirit from Priesthood holders and keeps them from receiving the personal revelation they need in there lives now and especially in the uncertain future that we face. Pornographic images not only come over the internet but also from our TVs. We cancelled our cable 5 years ago and immediately felt the increase of Spirit in our home when the filth coming from TV programs AND commercials stopped coming into our living room. As the morals become even more lax on TV, what will God do? The Brethren have for years counseled us to be wise in our TV viewing and have even challenged us to turn it off for 2 weeks as a test to see how unimportant it is in our lives.

What will happen when God has his Servants preach against the “plague” of abortion that is sweeping across the world?

How will the homosexuals and the Government react when the Church continues to fight homosexual marriage?

Will God ask us to turn TV off completely when the immorality increases to the point of open pornography?

How many of the members will murmur against the Brethren, and do now, as they increase their condemnation of the increasingly wicked world?

On a side note: I believe that this nation has been blessed because of the righteous people who live here. Just as we keep the commandments as a person and receive blessings from God, so will a nation. As soon as we leave God, so do the blessings. The same with a nation. When the majority becomes wicked, the blessings cease and God’s protection is removed. That is when terrible trials occur to individuals and nations. How far down the road of sin does this nation need to go before this begins? What will it take; how many deaths of innocent children sacrificed on the alter of selfishness, the spread of pornography, and acceptance of homosexual marriage, to bring the trials that have been prophesied for this nation unless we repent?

Old Man Dalton

Oldemandalton,

Since this is obviously a thread of speculation and you have speculated who the so-called "savior" (or anti-christ, I assume) might be, would you be willing to share your speculation? I have thought about it in passing, but have come to no definitive conclusion. Of course, you can keep it to yourself if you prefer, but it makes me curious if you don't mind sharing.

We cancelled our satellite service a few months back. I highly recommend it to everyone. We don't miss it at all.

Order of events:
Financial collapse continues. That, coupled with famine/drought could easily cause a repeat of Genesis 47: 13-21 (Note GBH mentioned the 7 lean yrs many times, it's important to understand what happened during those yrs of famine ) For those who don't want to read about it, the money collapses, the people trade their property/land and even themselves for some food and security. They are relocated across the land (FEMA camps).

I think before we have any WWIII, we must go through a civil war ourselves as we have seen in many prophecies and scriptures. It won't be like the 1860's type it will more of a neighbor against neighbor, chaos anarchy militia and martial law type of civil unrest. There will be freedom lovers trying to disoboy and fight the central government, race against race, class on class, state on state. It is in the environment that modern Assyria "takes a spoil."

[From chicafoom;
Oldemandalton,
Since this is obviously a thread of speculation and you have speculated who the so-called "savior" (or anti-christ, I assume) might be, would you be willing to share your speculation? I have thought about it in passing, but have come to no definitive conclusion. Of course, you can keep it to yourself if you prefer, but it makes me curious if you don't mind sharing.]

Let’s look at history first. Whenever there has been Hunger and Fear introduced to a populace the sheeple flock to a “strong man” who can get them out of the crises they are experiencing.
1930s Germany faced economic and political collapse. They followed and looked to Adolph Hitler, a strong leader, to “save” them. Same thing in Italy, Mussolini was their strong leader and was loved by the Italians even after the war. After the collapse of the Soviet Empire, the Russians chose Putin to bring them out of their fall. All of these men were successful because the sheeple followed them blindly and ignored their faults. One being that these strong men had a “savior complex” and an ego so big they thought that they could do no wrong.

If you read the Five Stages of Collapse which I had posted previously,(http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =2&t=53040) you will see we are in a downward spiral that will continue non-stop if we keep the course we are on. I believe that the American people have already chosen this “strong man” and “messiah” figure in the person of Barak Obama. He is an admitted Progressive similar to Pres Wilson and Roosevelt. Look at what they were able to do as presidents. I believe that Wilson was a true fascist. What will Obama not be able to accomplish with a worshipping press and adoring fans. If there is resistance to any of his policies, all Obama will have to do is go around the country and fill stadiums with his worshipers. He and the press will sway most of the sheeple. This has spread to the rest of the Western World and, he may well do his “tour” overseas too. Look at what he did during the campaign in Germany. They are looking to him to be a “savior” too. The opposition party is in a shambles and has continually moved to the left over the years. They will chose or not be able to stop anything that Obama may wish to do to “save” our country from "collapse". Now add to this Hunger and Fear and you have a receipt for disaster.

If you look at my speculated order of events, you will see how easy it would be for a man like Obama to be a “savior” to not only our country but to the whole world. Satan and the Master Mahan need someone to be the figurehead or cheerleader of the future world government they want. I can see how Obama could bring this about but I don’t think it will last. They will fight amongst themselves and fall into their own pit they dug for us. Does this answer your question, Chicafoom?


[From pjbrownie;
I think before we have any WWIII, we must go through a civil war ourselves as we have seen in many prophecies and scriptures. It won't be like the 1860's type it will more of a neighbor against neighbor, chaos anarchy militia and martial law type of civil unrest. There will be freedom lovers trying to disoboy and fight the central government, race against race, class on class, state on state. It is in the environment that modern Assyria "takes a spoil."]

I agree with your assessment that we will go thru a civil war or anarchy. I do believe this will be a progressive collapse of our country. As our economy collapses, wars around the world will increase as we will be unable to stop them. What will be the spark for the anarchy here? The feeling of disenfranchisement of the voters? Islamic and/or internal Terrorism? Stage 3, political collapse? WW III? Maybe all four at the same time. This will be a “Perfect Storm” as Glenn Beck likes to describe it. I think that the WW III will come at some point during the collapse. The World Powers of Russia, China, Islamic Radicals, and others will take advantage of our collapse and use force against, the US, Europe, their neighbors, etc. As we go thru turmoil and anarchy so will the world.

OMD

[We cancelled our satellite service a few months back. I highly recommend it to everyone. We don't miss it at all.]

Good for you, Shadow. The only thing I have really missed is football and news. Oh well, we have to sacrifice for the good of the family. I can get BYU football on the radio at least. News I can get from the internet and radio. I haven’t missed the boob tube in our family’s life in years. When the boys were talking about the superbowl yesterday I had to ask them who was playing!

OMD

Who played in the superbowl? Guess I missed it. Don't watch much TV either...

SHadow: "Order of events:
Financial collapse continues. That, coupled with famine/drought could easily cause a repeat of Genesis 47: 13-21 (Note GBH mentioned the 7 lean yrs many times, it's important to understand what happened during those yrs of famine ) For those who don't want to read about it, the money collapses, the people trade their property/land and even themselves for some food and security. They are relocated across the land (FEMA camps)."

So what do you glean from this? How are we to act if they TRY to put us in FEMA camps?? what to do in advance, anything? helplessness is not a good feeling.

Does this answer your question, Chicafoom?

Yes, thank you. The same thought has entered my mind as well. I do have to wonder though if he'll be around long enough. I know many are afraid he'll be assassinated, or at least the attempt will be made, due to his race. Sometimes, I wonder if an assassination attempt will be made, or some sort of attack, made to look like an attack on his race, will trigger race rioting throughout the country. If Rodney King made so many people mad in LA, think about the rioting that could occur if Obama's adoring fans thought he was being attacked because of his race. I couldn't care less what race the man is, but it still seems to matter (for good or bad) to far too many.

Old Man Dalton----

I agree totally with your assessment of what will bring persecution.

About your other post about a strong man saving us----Let me tell you what happened here last night:

I am 70 yrs old, and live in a senior citizens complex. We have our own apartments, and downstairs we have a common living room. Last night I went down to the living room, and there were several other people there as well. The discussion came up about the coronation (oops), inauguration of B.O. Here are some of the comments: "He will be so good for the country. He will unite us." "He is what is needed for our time." " He was sent by God to us to save us." And here is the kicker----"He has even talked with Jesus."

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was ready to Barf. There were only a few people there. What is going on in the rest of the country? the world? Is he going to be Maitreya?

I was already depressed because of the coronation. After that I was really depressed.

How long will this adoration exist? The evil in the world is no longer just growing. It is multiplying like rabbits..

We have to remember that RIGHT WILL WIN IN THE END, AND THE LORD WILL RETURN AND PUT AN END TO ALL WICKEDNESS.

Believer

straightarrow wrote: So what do you glean from this? How are we to act if they TRY to put us in FEMA camps?? what to do in advance, anything? helplessness is not a good feeling.

I don't know if that is what will happen, I was just likening the scriptures to us. IF it happens that way, I think people will beg to go to these places just like in Genesis. Those who are prepared with a supply of food, ammo for hunting/defense, a garden, etc. etc. will be self supported and have no need for the gov. help. The hopeless/helpless are the ones that will volunteer to go to these camps, if indeed it comes to that (and I'm not saying it will).

[ From Chicafoom;
The same thought has entered my mind as well. I do have to wonder though if he'll be around long enough. I know many are afraid he'll be assassinated, or at least the attempt will be made, due to his race. Sometimes, I wonder if an assassination attempt will be made, or some sort of attack, made to look like an attack on his race, will trigger race rioting throughout the country. If Rodney King made so many people mad in LA, think about the rioting that could occur if Obama's adoring fans thought he was being attacked because of his race. I couldn't care less what race the man is, but it still seems to matter (for good or bad) to far too many.]

I can’t see how Biden the VP could unite the country or world toward a new super, more powerful UN. If Obama is gone then Satan will have to bring up another “strong man” and a lot of time and preparation will be lost. A failed “assassination attempt” (see below) may even increase his popularity and direct national hate toward the group who instigated the attempt. This would be the perfect time to bring out the”Fairness” doctrine on “hate” radio/internet sites and other restrictions on the evil folks who tried to kill our “messiah”.

OMD

Note: I know it is a shock to some that I believe that “false flag” events are possible. They have in the past and will in the future.

I can’t see how Biden the VP could unite the country or world toward a new super, more powerful UN. If Obama is gone then Satan will have to bring up another “strong man” and a lot of time and preparation will be lost. A failed “assassination attempt” (see below) may even increase his popularity and direct national hate toward the group who instigated the attempt. This would be the perfect time to bring out the”Fairness” doctrine on “hate” radio/internet sites and other restrictions on the evil folks who tried to kill our “messiah”.

It seems that there have been "patsies" in the past who were blamed for assassinations and attempts. If something happens, I'll bet that there will be a "patsy" from a group that will come under persecution and condemnation. That really scares me.

[From Straightarrow;
For those who don't want to read about it, the money collapses, the people trade their property/land and even themselves for some food and security. They are relocated across the land (FEMA camps)."

So what do you glean from this? How are we to act if they TRY to put us in FEMA camps?? what to do in advance, anything? helplessness is not a good feeling.]

Well, lets imagine if one or more of the events occurre where I believe will bring about Martial Law; anarchy/civil war, economic collapse/WW III, nuclear EMP attack, plague, etc. Civil order will break down. It will be very difficult to keep the police officers on the street while they worry about the safety of their own families. Food shipments will stop; grocery stores will be emptied within days, gangs will be emboldened, and fires will be set by malicious pyromaniacs and unfought by fire departments under siege. This is how I would envision Las Vegas at the peak of the anarchy. So what do people do to receive help, safety and food? FEMA/refugee camps or something similar. National Guard, our military, and other forces will be called out to bring order and only Martial Law would do it in most large metropolitan areas. Would you want to stay in your home with the threat of fires and gangs roaming your neighborhood? No, those unprepared and unaware of building events will be happy to go to the refugee camps to get fed and live in relative safety.

I believe that there will be a short window of opportunity for us to escape to “safe zones” before the anarchy hits. There may even be a call from the Church to organize in Stakes and regions around the world as Wars and anarchy takes place. The Lord knows when it will be time. Those like us, who are the “watchmen” on the towers, will also recognize when the time is near. So get your families ready, talk amongst them, plan, and you will not fear unless we procrastinate.

OMD

President Obama does seem to fit the mold of an anti-Christ figure who is the figurehead of the first Beast. Problem is that the Beast overcome Babylon - America - in whom Obama has been given the driving keys for now. I don't believe that the presidency is doomed, no is the United States. Washington stated that it would survive, as many others who have had prophecies. I think that the government will continue (hanging by a thread) but will continue nonetheless. It is quite possible that Obama will himself wake up to our awful situation as things progressively get bad and the NWO makes itself more known. It is also possible that as we are attacked that a surviving government repents in exile - Obama gets elected, and becomes a great President and ambassador for Zion. It's also possible that he dies in office or is tossed out as an imposter and patsy to the NWO. I think, however, or hope, the system continues albeit weakly.

Believer, it helps if you cancel the cable like Shadow and I or just stop watching it. The adoration will continue. Obama is the liberals/progressives dream President; charismatic, great speaker, with socialist/communist leanings. All we can do to slow it down, if possible, is to elect like minded politicians locally and to call your Congressman and Senator during important votes. Other than that Washington is a lost cause.

OMD

Haddomr, have you thought on which form the persecution will be?

OMD, I don't know. You have some good ideas of how it could go down. It will probably be one of our principles that conflicts with the world's values. I imagine that it will come when our church leaders make a stand...like the gay issue. It will probably build...maybe take a few issues to get people really against the LDS.

haddomr wrote:

Haddomr, have you thought on which form the persecution will be?

OMD, I don't know. You have some good ideas of how it could go down. It will probably be one of our principles that conflicts with the world's values. I imagine that it will come when our church leaders make a stand...like the gay issue. It will probably build...maybe take a few issues to get people really against the LDS.

"Ordain gays into your clergy or lose your IRS tax-exempt status."

I think we all know what the Church would do, and I think we know how some would feel about it and react to it.

An interesting little twist would be how many members would stop paying their tithing once their deduction disappears? Trials lead to other trials.

[From Gruden;
"Ordain gays into your clergy or lose your IRS tax-exempt status."]

How about; You must marry gays or lose your tax-exempt status?

Or, if you are a doctor, nurse, pharmacist, you must provide abortion services and not refuse anyone.

You must have your child go to the government controlled propaganda centers, public school, and close down private and home schooling.

[I think we all know what the Church would do, and I think we know how some would feel about it and react to it.
An interesting little twist would be how many members would stop paying their tithing once their deduction disappears? Trials lead to other trials.]

The Church loosing its tax-exempt status is only the beginning. They won’t stop at that. Remember what the Federal and State Governments did to the Early LDS. We lost our voting rights, elected officials were unseated, the Church property was confiscated, and officials turned a blind eye to rioters and looters. I believe that this is how the trouble will begin with the Saints in the Last Days. Babylon will attack Zion just as they have in the past. Satan will use the same tactics that worked in the past. The Church and its members will go through the refiner’s fire again. The Saints with a weaker testimony will fall away, just as they have in the past. Thus we will be prepared for the 2nd Coming. After this persecution of the Church, that is when the Country will begin to fall into anarchy. God will withdraw His blessings. The Nation will suffer greatly just as they did when God withdrew his blessings after our persecution in the 1840-60s just before the Civil War. Errors committed in the past are repeated, along with a similar result. Civil War/Anarchy.

OMD

Civil War/Anarchy.

If the Church comes under so much persecution that we have virtually no freedom to practice our religion, then perhaps civil war and anarchy could be what saves us as a people. It might be the only way out of Babylon.