LDS Freedom Forum

Oldemandalton wrote:[From Gruden;
"Ordain gays into your clergy or lose your IRS tax-exempt status."]

How about; You must marry gays or lose your tax-exempt status?

Or, if you are a doctor, nurse, pharmacist, you must provide abortion services and not refuse anyone.

You must have your child go to the government controlled propaganda centers, public school, and close down private and home schooling.

[I think we all know what the Church would do, and I think we know how some would feel about it and react to it.
An interesting little twist would be how many members would stop paying their tithing once their deduction disappears? Trials lead to other trials.]


The Church loosing its tax-exempt status is only the beginning. They won’t stop at that. Remember what the Federal and State Governments did to the Early LDS. We lost our voting rights, elected officials were unseated, the Church property was confiscated, and officials turned a blind eye to rioters and looters. I believe that this is how the trouble will begin with the Saints in the Last Days. Babylon will attack Zion just as they have in the past. Satan will use the same tactics that worked in the past. The Church and its members will go through the refiner’s fire again. The Saints with a weaker testimony will fall away, just as they have in the past. Thus we will be prepared for the 2nd Coming. After this persecution of the Church, that is when the Country will begin to fall into anarchy. God will withdraw His blessings. The Nation will suffer greatly just as they did when God withdrew his blessings after our persecution in the 1840-60s just before the Civil War. Errors committed in the past are repeated, along with a similar result. Civil War/Anarchy.

OMD

I start to wonder if this is the case. We were up against the wall in 1858 with Buchanan's Blunder (whick co-incidentally caused John D Lee's blunder in Cedar City), and in 1889 with the Edmunds-Tucker coming into full blossom. Both the times the Saints who were studying their scriptures (and following the prophets) were saying "this is it" we're going the Mountains and the Lamanites will come with the aid of the God of Zion to fight our battles. Both times, there was a stay in persecution and collective sigh of relief. Now, some of my cafeteria Mormon friends use this as an example of why there is no imminent danger. Problem is that in both of those incidents, prophecy necessary for the cleansing of Zion had not been fulfilled - namely the end of the 6,000 years - but instead of seeing those as aborted mis-beliefs in the end, I instead see them as instructive or a precursor of what will actually happen. It happened twice with almost disasterous results. The third time, it will be the real deal - folks.

During the past year, I have thought a lot about the cleansing that would start in the Lords own house. I thought about natural disasters, armed aggression, plagues, famines etc. Any of these things could effect the members of the church, but would effect everyone else as well. The only thing that I could figure that could happen to us, but not others was persecution. I could be wrong, but I haven't been able to figure anything else. I also don't think the cleansing of the Lord's house will only be in Utah, or the western U.S. either. I think it will be world wide.

What do you think?

Believer

[ From Chicafoom;
The same thought has entered my mind as well. I do have to wonder though if he'll be around long enough. I know many are afraid he'll be assassinated, or at least the attempt will be made, due to his race. Sometimes, I wonder if an assassination attempt will be made, or some sort of attack, made to look like an attack on his race, will trigger race rioting throughout the country. If Rodney King made so many people mad in LA, think about the rioting that could occur if Obama's adoring fans thought he was being attacked because of his race. I couldn't care less what race the man is, but it still seems to matter (for good or bad) to far too many.]
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OMD said:
I can’t see how Biden the VP could unite the country or world toward a new super, more powerful UN. If Obama is gone then Satan will have to bring up another “strong man” and a lot of time and preparation will be lost. A failed “assassination attempt” (see below) may even increase his popularity and direct national hate toward the group who instigated the attempt. This would be the perfect time to bring out the”Fairness” doctrine on “hate” radio/internet sites and other restrictions on the evil folks who tried to kill our “messiah”.
------------------------------------------
I have heard the rumors about the possibility of B.O. getting assasinated. One person told me that there were more threats against him than any other other president or candidate.

We need to remember that Biden was chairman of the CFR before he became the VP candidate.


!
Meet the Press' transcript for Sept. 7, 2008
Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE),
updated 9:05 a.m. PT, Sun., Sept. 7, 2008




MR. BROKAW: Well, you were, you were here earlier this summer saying you would accept, but you didn't necessarily want the vice presidential nomination at that time.

SEN. BIDEN: Well, I told you exactly what I thought, and it was true. I, I was very satisfied in the job I had as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and I thought I could help the ticket that way. And--but Barack asked me to do it and I had committed to him, and if he wanted me--whatever he wanted me to do, I'd do, because I think this election is so critical.

It wouldn't be the first time a president was assassinated and VP, (President of Vice), made president

It think if anything happened to B.O., people would go beserk. There would be a lot of rioting, and damage done.

Believer

I ran across these articles about Maitreya. I posted them on the thread about Maitreya.

latest news
[CIT] CIT sees preferred stock sale to Treasury closing Dec. 31
PRESS RELEASE
Share International Reveals Christmas Miracle


Last update: 1:03 p.m. EST Dec. 12, 2008
LOS ANGELES, Dec 12, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- For years the world has been filled with miracles of all kinds. In April 1995 Time magazine devoted an eight-page spread to its cover story on miracles and concluded: "People are hungry for signs."
Look now for the biggest miracle of all. In the very near future a large, bright star will appear in the sky visible to all throughout the world -- night and day.
Unbelievable? Fantasy? No, a simple fact. Around a week later, Maitreya, the World Teacher for all humanity, will begin his open emergence and -- though not yet using the name Maitreya -- will be interviewed on a major US television program.
In 1988, CNN and other media reported on Maitreya's miraculous appearance to 6,000 people in Nairobi, Kenya, on Saturday, June 11. A week before the event, a remarkable sign occurred: "On Saturday 4 June a big, bright star was sighted, unusually brighter than ordinary stars," reported Kenya Times editor Job Mutungi.
For over 30 years, artist, author and lecturer Benjamin Creme has been preparing the way for the emergence of Maitreya and his group, the Masters of Wisdom. In May 1982, Creme revealed at a packed press conference in Los Angeles that Maitreya had been living in the Asian community of London since July 19, 1977.
Awaited by all faiths under different names, Maitreya is the Christ to Christians, the Imam Mahdi to Muslims, Krishna to Hindus, the Messiah to Jews, and Maitreya Buddha to Buddhists. He is the World Teacher for all, religious or not, an educator in the broadest sense.
As a modern man concerned with today's problems, Maitreya works behind the scenes of our changing world. The outpouring of his extraordinary energy has been the stimulus for dramatic developments on many fronts: the ending of the cold war; the break-up of the Soviet Union; the reunification of Germany; the ending of apartheid in South Africa; the growing power of the people's voice, leading to demands for freedom and justice; and the worldwide focus on preserving the environment.
Maitreya's message can be summarized as "share and save the world". He will seek to inspire humanity to see itself as one family, and to create world peace through sharing, economic justice and global cooperation.
With Maitreya and his group working openly in the world, humanity is assured not only of survival but of the creation of a brilliant new civilization.
http://www.share-international.org
SOURCE Share International

Another article that I found:


MAITREYA appears, 'out of the blue', to people everywhere -- always in a form that inspires recognition. In this way he seeks to prepare us for his public emergence, and to communicate his teachings and priorities for a just world. His first such appearance was on 11 June 1988, in Nairobi, Kenya to 6,000 people who saw him as Jesus Christ (photo).


BENJAMIN CREME, British author and lecturer, has been travelling the globe, helping to create a climate of hope and expectancy for the World Teacher.

View videos of Mr. Creme's public lectures and media appearances
Read our news releases
Read Creme's comments on world events
Listen to Mr. Creme's lecture in Tokyo, Japan on May, 2003
Upcoming lectures and interviews


A growing number of SIGNS & MIRACLES worldwide (crosses of light, healing waters, milk-drinking icons, weeping statues) confirm Maitreya's presence among us, as do other remarkable signs of Maitreya's approach.
TRANSMISSION MEDITATION provides a potent form of world service and spiritual growth.

MORE RESOURCES -- Share International magazine, books, audio clips, FAQs, archives, and more.






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NOTICE: While the name Maitreya is used by others, their understanding of the World Teacher may not correspond to that presented on this site. Anyone presently promoting him- or herself as Maitreya or the World Teacher is definitely not the same individual we refer to.

This site is maintained by Share International, a non-profit educational group with sister groups in over 20 countries. Copyright ? 2006 Share International. All rights reserved.


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Believer, there may be threats and failed attempts on his life but I don’t think that Obama will be killed in office. He is too important to Satan’s plan. Remember who it is tempting evil men to murder. If Obama is in Lucifer’s plans then he will try and keep him safe.

Maitreya is a Messiah figure for the Buddhists. Over the centuries many have claimed to be Maitreya just as many have claimed to be the Messiah. Muslim Shi'as also have a Messiah figure in the 12th Imam. The Sunni have the Mahdi. The Shia believe that chaos must come before the 12th Imam appears. The Iranians and especially Ahmadinejad believe that if they can create enough mayhem in the world then they could usher in their Messiah. There will be many false Messiahs in the Last Days. It looks like Maitreya will be one among many.

OMD

CFR (Private think tank) is not the same as Foreign Relations Committee (body of the Senate).

At any rate "Persecution comes next" That's the quote and I believe it.

It will come on several fronts and likely be precipitated by some event or events.

Hopefully that event is not fed by our "cold tea party or war" here. We don't need to create somebody who reads the Declaration of Independence stuff here and starts their own revolution under any guise. Wise as serpents harmless as doves...

But to answer the question by way of restatement... Persecution comes next.

But it will be of such a character that all true saints will be tested to the limit. (Why them, why not all saints?) Read the quote and ponder it. You can search for it on here, it is on here quuoted oft.

Swiss mrs--------

Thank you for the correction. I'll have to be more careful.

Could it be that the reason it will try the true saints, and not the others is because the true saints will not take the mark of the beast, and will stay true to the Lord, while others that are not true saints will leave the church, and join the world?

oldemandalton and believer.

There is a guy who is the current Maitreya who will come out to the whole world as the Messiah, the 12th Mahdi, Buddha, Ascended Master, etc., all in one. He will announce himself in a miraculous way...the technology will be holograph images of him projected all over the world up in the sky and he will seem to speak in different languages. I think he will be a great anti-Christ. Just look up project bluebeam one of these days. It's scary stuff.

I speculate that he will show himself either in 2011 or Dec. 2012, especially if there is a super-nova and he can use that as his sign.

His coming out day will be called "The Day of Declaration." Watch out for it.

Perhaps this playbook gives a clue -

http://2012poleshift.wetpaint.com/page/ ... es+in+2008

We have to remember that there will not be one false Christ, but many, and that the beast is not just an individual head.

To be honest I think all true saints are being tested to the limit now in almost every way, outright trials and opposition within the church would be a relief to many here (force the seperation like Brigham Young longed to see Ie. "I wish it were this fall" he said). The silent serriptitious battles are sometimes the most difficult. Defending your home is instinct, automatic, defending someone (or something) who (that) is different maybe not in a neccesarily good way is harder Ie. the good samaritan.

I expect a gradual descent into persecution and then chaos as the beast falls prey to it's own machinations. The persecution will come likely on every moral front for every reason that we stand for morality.

I stopped looking to specific events and started looking more at the overall picture. I don't think we will have invasion until after anarchy as it has been prophesied that the invasion will be them coming in for the spoils after the anarchy. But ordered persecution and then anarchy. The persecution comes as we are asked to take a stand or two perhaps. Fair weather saints may not take the stand or may not be tried by losing their religious rights?

I don't know.

I agree with you SwissMrs&Pitchfire. Persecution and the continued moral decline of this nation will spell its doom. We are in Stage 1 of our collapse and quickly headed for Stages 2 and 3. As Gman noted many countries are falling faster than we are. What will the collapse of Mexico do to our Southern Boarders? Will this be the fulfillment of the prophecy that the remnants of the Lamanites will be like a Lion amongst the lambs against the gentiles.

Old Man

Will this be the fulfillment of the prophecy that the remnants of the Lamanites will be like a Lion amongst the lambs against the gentiles.

This is already happening. We have had a large influx of Latinos in Utah over the last decade or so. I have noticed that most of the crimes and violence here are committed by young men with hispanic names. I know many wonderful Latinos but there is an element here now that is very scary.

If/when Mexico collapses, watch out! That alone would call for martial law overnight, literally.

Have you noticed the tremendous efforts the church has made to incorporate the Hispanic people - language classes held in church buildings, etc.

Actually, I had heard of this program. It's a free program to teach English to Hispanics. I think that is just terrific. There is one of these classes held just a couple of blocks from here. I haven't ever been to see it but I had heard that it was there.

I did this using the Book of Mormon as the teaching tool in Norwalk, CT in the Spanish branch, back in the summer of 2001. I also used the children's "ABC" song.

Another possibililty of what comes next is calling the missionaries home. At the end of the "fulfilling of the times of the gentiles", is their destruction. Joseph Smith stated "pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land". The House of Israel's time to hear the gospel is next. With the American continent wiped off, the lamanites/indians/ten tribes of Israel from the north countries get America and build the New Jerusalem. The righteous members of the church now get to help them. If the church leaders call the missionaries home from the gentile nations, it won't be long then. I just don't know if persecution is first or second, or together with missionaries called home.

What, you are not being subjected to persecution now?

I thought we lived in a heathen nation. We do. The prophecy has to be fulfilled about the gospel going into every nook and cranny on earth. The Muslim states still need to allow it in. Most everybody else has legally accepted.

Oh, and Israel too, lest we forget. We are in "wink-wink" mode there.

The missionaries will not be called home until the Lord is ready to preach His own sermons to the Gentile nations with lightenings, earthquakes etc... But pre-Adam-Ondi-Ahmen, satan will retain command of earthly governance. Persecution must come first upon my house before it can go from it and hence persecution must come first. It is now, but will get much much worse (does anyone doubt the neccesity of that in order to truly cleanse us?).

The missionaries will not likely be called home soon in full, though usually these things happen in stages (like the gathering of Israel which has and has not FULLY been fullfilled).

When the real persecution is here I think we'll know it, (as hard as it has been for true saints to remain true this past while). It is just that it is to the seperation, and that cannot occur absent very polarizing persecution. It's the polarity we should look for, the seperation. The humbling preparation for our work.

I have an aversion to pain and would like to sidestep the refining/rendering process. I don't have that much fat to go into the fire!

Some of us will see him sooner after the flesh has been removed and we tip-toe over to the other side of the veil.

"No man knows the day nor the hour". But we can have fun guessing the year and when we pass away, we will see Him on the other side. No doubt about that, according to Brigham Young.

The way things are unfolding, it may be sooner rather than later.