LDS Freedom Forum

I have noticed that over the last year and a half-confrences/ ensign that the Twelve or the Prophet Have not been stressing Food storage or preparedness like they have in past years, If I am wrong please fell free to elaborate. I am not saying the point of food storage is no longer valid, I Feel that maybe the time for preperation is almost over due to current cicumstances and the warning that has been preached over the last 75 years is sufficent. I know of some things that have been talked about at ward or Stake levels, I am refering to The Church as a whole. Any thoughts on why this may be?

We've got our Stake conference this Sunday, so I'll be listening specifically for anything to do with the economy and preparedness.

I've noticed that warnings seem to have died out at General Conference - now they're talking about unity. Is unity the next stage? Perhaps it's a case of if you're not prepared now (after years of being warned) then there's little chance of you getting yourself sorted within the next few months or weeks.

The bretheren have definitely stopped talking about principles of liberty, maybe the time for that expired in the early 1990s. Now they've stopped talking about preparedness because that time has come to an end. Now we're onto unity for those who have obeyed the prophets by studying principles of liberty, getting out of debt as much as possible and getting at least a year's supply of food. Could it be that those who have been obedient need to be ready to unite and share resources?

The bretheren have definitely stopped talking about principles of liberty

I felt Pres. Packer's Speach last Confrence was on Liberty, I felt he was telling to uphold principles of freedom as the Saints did during a time when the Government was against the Church. However, you are right Unity seems to be a recent Focus of attention.

At our Stake conference last weekend, out authority was Elder Clayton of the Presidency of the Seventy. I was specifically looking for food storage, preparedness, etc. The theme of the conference was basically strengthening the family, getting to the temple, etc. One interesting comment he made was that in light of what is going on in the world he wanted to stress that the church has never been in a better or more powerful position, and this was just the beginning.

Maybe not at the pulpit, but they released several new pamphlets that are being heavily stressed on food storage and financial preparedness.

It's not too late until it is too late. I am sure many of you will scoff at that comment, but I will remind you ever since the Church was started there are people who feel 'this is the end' and every single time they have been wrong.

Um I havent read an Ensign that didnt stress food storage and preparedness.

My wife and I noticed earlier this year they don't talk about it that much anymore. They don't talk about it much during stake conference, either. They know most of us aren't doing much about it, and if we haven't listened by now...

For some the time for gathering food storage has passed. As the year progresses, that will be the case for many more people. We're in big trouble.

For some the time for gathering food storage has passed. As the year progresses, that will be the case for many more people. We're in big trouble.

There are too many grasshoppers and not enough ants! I'm trying to help everyone I can with their storage. But it isn't going to be enough, even for my family. But at least I'll do what I can for as long as I can and then it's in the Lord's hands.

You are right many People no longer have the means to get food storage, If they would have harkened earlier they would be ok. Now for many it is to late. As more people loose their jobs and Homes they will have a hard enough time trying to survive let alone preparing.

This reminds me of the various things LDSs have been told to do or not to do over my 49 years in the Church, all of which have been largely ignored:
*Befriending the US Constitution
*Birth control
*Mothers going out to work
*Seeking and accepting government welfare
*Preparedness, including laying in food storage

So we don't have to share. We get to share.

lundbaek wrote:This reminds me of the various things LDSs have been told to do or not to do over my 49 years in the Church, all of which have been largely ignored:
*Befriending the US Constitution
*Birth control
*Mothers going out to work
*Seeking and accepting government welfare
*Preparedness, including laying in food storage

So we don't have to share. We get to share.

Lundbaek, just curious is the church for or against birth control as you stated?

To Spence's question to me "is the church for or against birth control":

I have neither hear nor read anything on the subject of birth control from the Church for many years. However, I do remember in the 1960s especially hearing and reading some very emphatic statement to the effect that efforts to prevent conception were immoral. I no longer remember who said what when, but it made an impact on me because I was aware of friends who were practicing birth control in spite of the apparent commandments to eschew the practice. It was never a problem for us, as we had to adopt our kids thru the church adoption services. So I took no further interest in the issues.

efforts to prevent conception were immoral

I believe that the Church wants us to use wisdom, especially in the area of how many children we are to have. (I had to stop after six....couldn't physically do more.) I personally know of a family who had 12 children and counting. They had one baby practically every year. They couldn't afford what they had, but felt they should keep on reproducing even though it was affecting the teens in the family in negative ways. I think the number of children we have is a personal matter between us and the Lord. I think the Church was trying to instruct young couples not to put off having families, but not stressing the size.
(That's my opinion, FWIW)

Now back on topic....I believe that the Church is still encouraging preparedness. It's just a bit more subtle now, but if you really listen and read things, the message is still there.

Oh boy, bring up birth control and you're stirring up a hornets nest. Back when I was at BYU one of my professors brought up a quote from Brigham Young that women should not just be baby making machines, "they should be pregnant nine months, nurse nine months, then rest nine months." If I hadn't practiced some form of birth control I'd have 30 kids, all 10 months apart. (fertile to the max) I defy anyone to tell me that is what God wanted for me. As it is I have 6 children. Actually 7 because one died. I also received my answer that I had all the children I was intended to have.

Having said that, I certainly do agree that we shouldn't put off having children until all the conditions are right: once we get through school, get a good job, have all debt paid off, etc. I remember several brethren saying not to put off kids until college is completed. We simply cannot and should not stand in judgement on the number of children others have. That is none of our business.

Not that the BC discussion might not be interesting, but I already participated in that discussion about a year ago when I first came to this forum.

What I want to put in my two bits worth about is what the Brethren are or aren't saying about preparedness, etc. My position is that no one in the Church can say they haven't been warned, and advised what to do. Given the current state of things, one might argue that the Brethren should be preaching it at a fever pitch, but that dosen't seem to be the Lord's way. We've been given ample warning and time to prepare. We all have our free agency. Nothing we do now is going to prevent what is coming down. True, with better preparation some people could be better equipped to deal with it. But there's no question that we're simply at a certain (very ripe) stage in the Pride Cycle. I'm sure the Lord and the Brethren understand much better than any of us do that the biggest thing we all need and deserve about now is a major humbling. Some are probably not going to survive the humbling. And those who do durvive will probably be much more humble than they are today and have been, which, from the Lord's perspective, is probably just about what the doctor ordered. What else can or should the Brethren have to say about it at this point?

If people haven't responded by now chances are they probably won't. I have tried to help Family and friends get prepared over the last year, some did most blew it off as

we still have plenty of time

Now some of those same people are broke and hurting badly, If they would have prepared when times were still good they would fair better than they do now. It's sad to see this happen, sadder when it's your Family.

What I want to put in my two bits worth about is what the Brethren are or aren't saying about preparedness, etc. My position is that no one in the Church can say they haven't been warned, and advised what to do. Given the current state of things, one might argue that the Brethren should be preaching it at a fever pitch, but that dosen't seem to be the Lord's way. We've been given ample warning and time to prepare. We all have our free agency. Nothing we do now is going to prevent what is coming down. True, with better preparation some people could be better equipped to deal with it. But there's no question that we're simply at a certain (very ripe) stage in the Pride Cycle. I'm sure the Lord and the Brethren understand much better than any of us do that the biggest thing we all need and deserve about now is a major humbling. Some are probably not going to survive the humbling. And those who do durvive will probably be much more humble than they are today and have been, which, from the Lord's perspective, is probably just about what the doctor ordered. What else can or should the Brethren have to say about it at this point?

I totally agree.
My husband and I got the feeling to get our storage about 2 months before things started going bad. We had some storage but I honestly thought we had more time. I dont now. I have been working very hard. I have enough food (i.e. rice beans and oatmeal) for a year but am trying to get other non food items and food to give me more variety. My mother (kathyn) has helped alot (thank you ) but I have been not just putting my hopes on what she can help me with and have done alot for myself ( I think thats why she helps me so much, it's not easy when you have a new family and are just starting out). Hopefully I can return the favor and help someone else out when the time comes. But I must agree if after all these years we havent prepared then we have no one to blame but ourselves.

will wrote:I have noticed that over the last year and a half-confrences/ ensign that the Twelve or the Prophet Have not been stressing Food storage or preparedness like they have in past years, If I am wrong please fell free to elaborate. I am not saying the point of food storage is no longer valid, I Feel that maybe the time for preperation is almost over due to current cicumstances and the warning that has been preached over the last 75 years is sufficent. I know of some things that have been talked about at ward or Stake levels, I am refering to The Church as a whole. Any thoughts on why this may be?

Interesting how we all see things different. The All Safely Gathered In program is the biggest push of preparedness that has happened in the church in at least 25 years. The last CG, October 2008, there were so many talks on how people faced tragedy, wars, hardships, etc. For the first time that I know of, a talk was given entirely about Angels, Elder Holland's talk.

You know, I guess what we have here is a semantics issue - what is preparedness? Plus, each of us sit and listen with different ears with different needs.....and are filled in different ways. If we are waiting for, "It's time to get your food storage now because a huge economic collapse is coming and we can't feed you."? Then, I can see why you don't think they are saying much. Because of some of my contacts, I've heard it that straight up. But, I certainly have heard the Prophets warn us over and over and over again.

I also think that their primary job is to bring us to Christ..and once we choose to stand before the Savior with an open heart, we will accept the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Once there, we will be taught all we need to know.

We should keep in mind that it takes new members of the Church a bit of time to get up to speed on preparedness. When a "time of need" becomes reality, there will likely by now members and even new baptisms during that time of need or people who until then never heard of the Lord's commandment Re. preparedness. I think with such people we definitely will get to share.

Lunbeck, I agree. Those members who are new have an excuse also most newly weds.

Please consider that we now have a world wide church with "general" leadership speaking to a such an audience. I don't think it is the responsibility of leaders to babysit us over and over again. Lehi was warned, Moses was warned, on and on. I don't know what kind of teachings they experienced to prepare them to heed or follow the warning but I am grateful to a God who loves each of us and give us such guidance.

I personally have committed my life to preparing for the return of Jesus Christ and the trials this world will face in preparation for that great day. I want as many of my friends/relatives and others who choose to do the same to "come along" and let's work together to survive and prosper. We can preserve our freedoms and literally bless the world through our knowledge and preparations.

"We must dedicate our strength to serving the needs, rather than the fears of the world". President Ezra Taft Benson

Following are a couple excerpts from President Eyring's most recent talk. Those who are claiming that "the prophets are not talking" are either blind, ignorant, or trying to raise a fuss. This particular talk went into the missionary program and why shouldn't it? Many of the same people who have been taught are worrying about the future rather than sharing the incredible news of Jesus Christ, his LIVING prophets, and apostles being! What have they taught us? To stand in Holy places, to prepare for the future, and help others do the same.

"Because the Lord is kind, He calls servants to warn people of danger. That call to warn is made harder and more important by the fact that the warnings of most worth are about dangers that people don’t yet think are real. Think of Jonah. He fled at first from the Lord’s call to warn the people of Nineveh who were blinded to the danger by sin. He knew that wicked people through the ages have rejected prophets and sometimes killed them. Yet when Jonah went forward with faith, the Lord blessed him with safety and success."

"The Lord would not use the word warn if there was no danger. Yet not many people we know sense it. They have learned to ignore the increasing evidence that society is unraveling and that their lives and family lack the peace they once thought was possible. That willingness to ignore the signs of danger can make it easy for you to think: “Why should I speak to anyone about the gospel who seems content? What danger is there to them or to me if I do or say nothing?” President Henry B. Eyring

We need to step up to a whole new level of understanding if we are going to make it through the times to come. We need to encourage, support and help each other. We need to have faith that God does love us and not only sent His Son, but he has living, worthy, men of vision and insight here to guide us. Fear Not!

As you can probably tell I am a little worked up. If I have offended anyone please forgive me, or at least contact me directly and we will work through it. What I will not do is back down. If we were in line together for the wedding feast and either of us was not prepared fully I promise I would help make it so both of us made it into the party! Preparations temporally are progressive the same way they are spiritually and I will not stop working on preparations for myself, family, friends, new members, whomever until I am taken "home"!

c-n-b, I don't think you said anything that anyone here would take offense to. I think most of us would agree with your sentiments.

The Church does have a program - they have for years - that members can use. Like everything though, you have to bring yourself to it. No one's going to force anyone to pick up the pamphlet or go to the website. I think the task has fallen to the preparedness specialists and whomever self-elects to encourage people.

I've yet to meet a single member who, when the topic of food storage came up, disagreed that it was important. Most think they should do it, yet they don't. Many simply don't feel the urgency. It's been discussed for so many years and we've had it good for so long people just don't see the need.

Anyone ever see Monty Python's Holy Grail? The castle guard looks out and sees Lancelot coming, and he's always far away. Then suddenly he's there at the gate and runs him through. That's how it will go down.

Right after I was made preparedness specialist, I blasted an email to the ward urging them to get moving, giving them some info, and making the canner available for some canning. Only 2 families showed up for canning. I'm going to do it again next month, but I'm not sure what I'm going to get. Most are young couples living in a student world and not fully understanding that the world is starting to unravel around them. This next year or so is going to be really interesting. Peoples' reactions will be astonishing.

Gruden,
I think one of the things missing is everyone is asking the wrong questions. To determine ones level of preparation is one thing but to find out their "why" is an entirely different direction. I think this needs to be addressed first.

E.g. if someone doesn't feel that they will ever become victim to a violent individual i.e. a robbery, assault, etc. they would feel no need to prepare. If someone doesn't feel or understand that their food supply, quantity, quality, or prices may someday be affected then why would they prepare? It seems we often will only prepare after an event. A good example is my wife. I could not get here to stop leaving her purse in plain site in our vehicles. When at the State Fair someone in broad daylight took a folding chair and broke the window out of my truck and stole her purse. Now she never leaves it in site! How often do we finally check our spare tire, after an incident? We need to build an understanding in people through faith in their leaders and an understanding of the threats we face while focusing on the positive aspects. E.g. in my wife's situation I tried to teach her of the positives of keeping her purse safe but only after years of cleaning up identity theft etc. did she learn.

I have been working on a simple questionnaire that may bring this to peoples understanding. If we can first determine their level of understanding of potential threats then we may move them along the road to preparation.

Yesterday, I forwarded an article (not relating to our church) that told how bad things are going and how much worse they can get. The last paragraph included the advice to get lots of food put away. I forwarded that article to almost everyone on my email list. Well, a niece of mine who is not LDS posted that article on her Facebook site for everyone to see. I think we may be reaching more individuals than we suppose, sometimes.

I preach food storage and preparation to everyone I see, practically. We took the missionaries to dinner tonight and the one elder, who has only been out a couple of months said that they were told that we're approaching the time when the LDS Church will be pretty much alone in the world and it will be the only place of safety for good people.

I guess I would tell all of you never to give up preaching preparedness to everyone. We don't know who might listen. We may yet be Saviors on Mt. Zion, if I may say so--at least as far as temporal things go.

crash-n-burn wrote:Gruden,
I think one of the things missing is everyone is asking the wrong questions. To determine ones level of preparation is one thing but to find out their "why" is an entirely different direction. I think this needs to be addressed first.

Absolutely. In my email I touched upon it a little. In another thread I related a story where I was speaking to the financial secretary who told me he had 3 months-worth, and he was fully engaged as we were talking about storage and I was giving him ideas on how to use it, etc. I then encouraged him to not stop at a 3-month supply, but to keep going, because - my mistake? - "You're going to need it next year." He immediately disengaged - I could literally see the light go off and he turned away. Just like that. I see that all the time. People do not want to talk about the why. They don't. They shut off, change the subject, or just walk away.

What makes those of us who see the why's and take action different? I don't know, and it's a big question I have to understand why people behave this way. We can't bring ourselves to see these things. It's too terrible. Or something.

crash-n-burn wrote:I have been working on a simple questionnaire that may bring this to peoples understanding. If we can first determine their level of understanding of potential threats then we may move them along the road to preparation.

If you complete this questionnaire sometime in the next several weeks, I'd love to see it. If I can use it, I will.