LDS Freedom Forum

Given that there must be a Temple at Jerusalem (Joseph Smith) before Christ comes, and given that the Dome of the Rock (and the al asqua mosque) is right on the temple mount, when does this even occur in prophecy?

People in Mormonism and Christianity tend to support Zionism because of their belief that Israel must become a mighty nation (as indicated by prophecy, Isaiah, BOM). Some have argued that the current batch of Jews there are fornicate Jews who are but a forgery of what God will set up. Given. However, does this true kingdom of Jews not come until after the Mount of Olives?

If yes, then there has to be an illegitamate kingdom to exist upon Israel (with a temple) before Christ comes. There has to be a nation of Jews that populate the land. That temple has to get there somehow. How does this come about scholars?

Also, is it also not true that God will punish the nations (according to Revelations) that tries to split the land (aka, partition of Palestine and Israel)?

It's already there, think Vernal Temple!

Ah I've heard that before, but does it not need to be on the Temple Mount? AND, isn't this temple built by Jews, AND doesn't this temple follow the architecture of Ezekiel?

What does it matter what the Jews build?

Bob

Well I may be caught up in Evangelical blather about the Jewish temple and anti-Christ. I'm seeking authoritative statements from LDS authors.

I'm definitely very suspicious about the anti-Zionism on this board. It seems to fit into the UN hook, line, and sinker.

Don't most evangelicals believe that no temples currently exist on the earth? Why do Mormons need one in Jerusalem, or New Jerusalem, for prophecy to be fulfilled? Besides, they would have to have the priesthood of the restoration for the temple to be legitimate from an LDS viewpoint. I read a quote from Ezra Taft Benson saying that the two prophets that prophesy will be ordained by LDS restored priesthood lines, and even these two are said to be "killed by the Beast" after their ministries.

I don't worry about it. In 1984 a lease was signed for 49 years, would you call that a hint, a type? Wouldn't the mount the T was on be called the T mount? What would the Jews and the EV's do in a T? So why are we worring about it? The EV's saying their raising money to help the Jews build a T is a method of simply enriching themselves, the Jews don't get much of it.

Some years ago while visiting my brother in California a EV preacher come to his door asking for donations of food that supposedly would go to people who survived a large earthquake a hundred miles to the SouthWest. My brother give him a bag full of canned food and a frozen turkey. He was using girl Scouts to help him, and had two pickup trucks full of food. My brother said a lot of people just give him a check. However, it was noticed when he delivered his collected food to the food bank he delivered only four small boxes. He was investigated, with the extra food he was opening a small discount grocery, hired his mistress to run it, and while he and the GS's were still out collecting food, his wife was left sitting in a nice home watching his kids.

On a flight once, I sit next to a recent graduate of some Texas theology school, don't remember which. He bragged his first assignment would net him at least $100,000 a year, said he planned to be retired before he was forty. This was in the early 80's. Good money in fleecing the sheep!

Bob,

pjbrownie wrote:Well I may be caught up in Evangelical blather about the Jewish temple and anti-Christ. I'm seeking authoritative statements from LDS authors.

I'm definitely very suspicious about the anti-Zionism on this board. It seems to fit into the UN hook, line, and sinker.

Great questions to ask

Re the zionists- we should Be more suspicious about what we_don't_know.

As a member of Jews for Jesus can I refer you to "true Torah Jews" and "Jews against Zionism"

Yes, that's right- Jews_against_Zionism.

These Israeli / US Jews are imposters
Don't fora second let these imposters fool you. They aren't religious, they aren't observant, they aren't attending a 'gog.

Be more concerned if you have a problem with UN humanitarian programs more than Israeli war crimes

Wake up, Satan's in on this gig too

Here's a good link about the rebuilding of the Jerusalem temple in prophecy:

http://www.templestudy.com/2008/02/29/r ... jerusalem/

I think we may need to reassess what we think Zionism is (for good or ill). I think that the current strain of anti-Zionism is based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. So far, I've seen no one on this board discuss this (whether its true or not) but it is at the end of every conspiracy rabbit hole that I've seen. It's what motivated Hitler in his anti-Jewry. I tend to think that it IS providence that the Jews are in Israel and build a temple - here's why?

HC, JOSEPH SMITH 5:337

Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, Etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make his appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east.

HC, JOSEPH SMITH 5:423

What was the object of gathering the Jews, or the people of God in any age of the world? ...The main object was to build unto the Lord a house whereby He could reveal unto His people the ordinances of His house.

JD, CHARLES PENROSE Apostle 24:217

The work is moving on for the gathering of the Jews to their own land that they may build it up as it was in former times; that the temple may be rebuilt and the mosque of the Moslem which now stands in its place may be moved out of the way; that Jerusalem may be rebuilt upon its original site; that the way may be prepared for the coming of the Messiah, who shall be seen in the midst of those whose ancestors nailed him to the cross, and who, when they see the marks in His hands, shall say in answer to their inquiries, "These are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends."

JD, ORSON PRATT 14:349-50

The twelve tribes will return to Palestine and rebuild Jerusalem and the temple before and preparatory to the coming of the Lord. But let us read a little further to show more fully that this was a work of the latter days. "And all nations shall flow unto it and many people shall go and say 'Come ye and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us of his ways and we will walk in his paths, for out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.'" Two separate and distinct places. The whole of the twelve tribes of Israel are to return back to Palestine in Asia and rebuild their city of Jerusalem and a temple within that city before, and preparatory to the coming of the Lord. Ezekiel, in describing the latter-day building of Jerusalem, says, "And the name of the city from that day forward shall be 'The Lord is there.'" After the rebuilding of that city it will never be forsaken, or plucked up. As Jeremiah says in his 31st chapter, "It shall never be plucked up or thrown down henceforth and for ever." It will stand while all the generations of the earth shall stand when the house of Israel shall return and rebuild it under the direction of the Almighty.

JD, ORSON PRATT 15:338

When you see the nations of the earth, especially the heathen nations, and also those north of Jerusalem--the great nation of Russia and other nations on the continent of Asia, together with many in Europe, gather up against Jerusalem after the Jews have returned and rebuilt their city and Temple

JD, ORSON PRATT 18:64

The Jews dispersed among the Gentiles will not come and sing in the height of Zion, or but very few of them, they will go to Jerusalem. Some of them will believe in the true Messiah, and thousands of the more righteous, whose fathers did not consent to the shedding of the blood of the Son of God, will receive the Gospel before they gather from among the nations. Many of them, however, will not receive the Gospel, but seeing that others are going to Jerusalem they will go also; and when they get back to Palestine, to the place where their ancient Jerusalem stood, and see a certain portion of the believing Jews endeavoring to fulfill and carry out the prophecies, they also will take hold and assist in the same work. At the same time they will have their synagogues, in which they will preach against Jesus of Nazareth, "that impostor," as they call him, who was crucified by their fathers. After awhile, when tens of thousands of them have gathered and rebuilt their Temple, and re-established Jerusalem upon its own heap

JD, O PRATT 18:177

Then, when the Gentile nations shall reject this Gospel and count themselves unworthy of eternal life, as the Jews did before them, the Lord will say--"It is enough, come away from them, my servants, I will give you a new commission, you shall go to the scattered remnants of the house of Israel. I will gather them in from the four quarters of the earth, and bring them again into their own lands. They shall build Jerusalem on its own heap; they shall rear a Temple on the appointed place in Palestine, and they shall be grafted in again."

JD, JOHN TAYLOR 18:199

remember, some time ago, having a conversation with Baron Rothschild, a Jew. I was showing him the Temple here, and said he--"Elder Taylor, what do you mean by this Temple? What is the object of it? Why are you building it?" Said I, "One of your Prophets said--"The Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come to his Temple." "Now," said I, "Sir, will you point me out a place on the face of the earth where God has a Temple?" Said he, "I do not know of any. Do you consider that this is that Temple?" "No, sir, it is not, but you will build a Temple, for the Lord has shown us, among other things, that you Jews have quite a role to perform in the latter days, and that all the things spoken by your old prophets will be fulfilled, that you will be gathered to old Jerusalem, and that you will build a Temple there; and when you build that Temple, and the time has arrived, 'the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his Temple.'***

JD, W WOODRUFF 2:200

When the Gentiles reject the Gospel it will be taken from them, and go to the House of Israel, to that long-suffering people that are now scattered abroad through all the nations upon the earth, � and they will rebuild Jerusalem their ancient city, and make it more glorious than at the beginning, and they will have a leader in Israel with them, a man that is full of the power of God and the gift of the Holy Ghost; but they are held now from this work, only because the fulness of the Gentiles has not yet come in.

This last quote makes me wonder if the current Zionism we now see is an imposter Zionism as many of you have indicated. Interesting that President Taylor had converstations with Baron Rothschild on this topic. Makes me think that after WWIII, that only THEN will the true Jerusalem be built with Messiah-LDS Jews on the original temple site as ordained by Ezekiel (sorry BYU-Jersualem fans). It appears that they GATHER in unbelief, but the building goes forth in belief after the gospel in taken from the Gentiles. But it stands, there will be Zion of Jews on the Holy Land, folks. Palestinians are prophecied in Isaiah 15-16 that those that repent and join Zion will be gathered in and that those that don't will be cast out. I have very little sympathy for what seems like a plight of those cast of by their own people, the Egytians and Jordanian to be used as a patsy for war against Israel. I have Palestinian friends and I used to room with the son of the heam Imam of the Al Asqa mosque in Jerusalem - and after hearing their side of the story, I remain true to the cause of the nation of Israel. I believe it is not in line with the NWO. The UN is all against Israel - that should be a clue to you all.

Yes, we must have a temple in Jerusalem before the second coming.

Do a little research on the Jerusalem Center and you will find that with a few walls in the right place, a baptismal font, and a dedication... we will have a Temple in Jerusalem!

pjbrownie wrote: I think we may need to reassess what we think Zionism is (for good or ill). I think that the current strain of anti-Zionism is based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. So far, I've seen no one on this board discuss this (whether its true or not) but it is at the end of every conspiracy rabbit hole that I've seen. It's what motivated Hitler in his anti-Jewry. I tend to think that it IS providence that the Jews are in Israel and build a temple - here's why?

So as to the Anti-Zionism on this board... you may need to reassess what you believe and how the current non-LDS teachings you have let into your thought process. You are assuming that the people and leaders currently in Israel are the People any of the quotes you posted are. When you think of the current Israelis think of the fact that every time God Almighty has a plan the snake offers his counterfeit plan. By their fruits shall ye shall know them, are any of the current Jews Godly, children of the Promise? Yes of course . Should anyone claiming Jewry be given carte blanche? No not ever. Then why are they?

IMHO the current counterfeit Jews are the snakes plan to turn the world against Gods chosen people, who are still scattered and not gathered... Satan thought; hey, I will beat God to the punch and win, but as always his plan fails allowing the true plan to continue and Gods plan prevailing.

So as to the Anti-Zionism on this board... you may need to reassess what you believe and how the current non-LDS teachings you have let into your thought process. You are assuming that the people and leaders currently in Israel are the People any of the quotes you posted are.

IMHO the current counterfeit Jews are the snakes plan to turn the world against Gods chosen people, who are still scattered and not gathered... Satan thought; hey, I will beat God to the punch and win, but as always his plan fails allowing the true plan to continue and Gods plan prevailing.

This is where you start losing me cjex. We are living in the last days. The gathering of the Jews back to their lands has been going on for decades in fulfillment of prophesy. Many of the Brethren have spoken of this many times in the past 60 years. If the people living in Israel are not these people referenced in PJ's quotes but are counterfits and the real covenant Jews are still scattered and have not gathered yet then show me something that has been said by the prophets to back this claim up. I have only read the opposite from them. Do you really think all those living in Israel now are actually part of these counterfit Jews you speak of?

The Protocol of the Elders of Zion, I believe was promulgated by anti-Jewish sources in Russia a little over 100 years ago to defame the Russian Jews and others. You''ll notice that most of the Muslim societies use this as a tool to justify their hate of the Jews around the world.

Are there conspiracies? You bet! There are international Jewish bankers involved, for sure. But those Jews involved care not one whit about the Messiah. They serve the ultimate Bad master. And they won't lift a finger to save any of their Jewish brethren when the time comes. Their only allegiance is to themselves.

I dare say, most of the Jews in Israel today are not religious and many have no concept of spirituality. For most, I suppose it's a matter of tradition and bloodline. I wish with every part of my being that they could accept Jesus Christ,but I realize the time isn't yet.

The Jews nor the EV's pushing this "Jewish T" don't have the foggiest idea what to do in a t. But I'll concede one thing, if, according to jewish tradition, it "has" to be built according to your interpretations of those prophets you mention above, how do you know the BYU JC wasn't? And if not, Brother, they'd better get started. According to most on this board, there just isn't going to be time--------

Now if it's your understanding it's all ready there, then read those same quotes with that understanding, allowing time for the individual events mentioned to happen.

There's a satan inspired reason for all the protests and government intervention that made a concerted attempt to stop the J Center.

I've read all the stories, how the Jews have the stones all cut and numbered, everything to decorate the T is ready awaiting the God induced collapse of the D of the R. Again, these all come from EV sources, I don't believe them.

The BYU JC is exactly what it's called, and will remain so------------


Bob

exactly. Exactly exactly x500 more exactly's

As I've been saying for 2 years here- these political zionists are neither Jews or Israel, nor Zion- in the sense of the definitions WE understand

Heck, we're on a conspiracy web site and some don't even think "gee, I wonder why Satan hasn't got this all confused to people"

I mean there are counterfeit Christians right? What-1600 years worth and 500 denominations of- but no false Judaism or zionists in this time? Those warmongers in Israel at the moment are gods chosen? Riiiight. Hey, maybe they're the fakes keeping the true lost tribes OUT! Huh...what if, shock, some Palestinians were Israel? Some people need to think a little harder.
Oh, here's another one that confuses people, WE, as in lds, WE are as Israel as anyone else (apart from literal Levites) in that part of the world. That part of the world us actually OUR birthright, if anyones

cjex wrote:

pjbrownie wrote: I think we may need to reassess what we think Zionism is (for good or ill). I think that the current strain of anti-Zionism is based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. So far, I've seen no one on this board discuss this (whether its true or not) but it is at the end of every conspiracy rabbit hole that I've seen. It's what motivated Hitler in his anti-Jewry. I tend to think that it IS providence that the Jews are in Israel and build a temple - here's why?

So as to the Anti-Zionism on this board... you may need to reassess what you believe and how the current non-LDS teachings you have let into your thought process. You are assuming that the people and leaders currently in Israel are the People any of the quotes you posted are. When you think of the current Israelis think of the fact that every time God Almighty has a plan the snake offers his counterfeit plan. By their fruits shall ye shall know them, are any of the current Jews Godly, children of the Promise? Yes of course . Should anyone claiming Jewry be given carte blanche? No not ever. Then why are they?

IMHO the current counterfeit Jews are the snakes plan to turn the world against Gods chosen people, who are still scattered and not gathered... Satan thought; hey, I will beat God to the punch and win, but as always his plan fails allowing the true plan to continue and Gods plan prevailing.

The BYU JC is exactly what it's called, and will remain so------------

I've been of the opinion that there will be an LDS temple in Jerusalem at some point. But again, aren't the sons of Levi (the Cohens) supposed to perform the levitical ceremonies at a Jewish temple, too? Or do the righteous sons of Levi refer, by default, to the LDS priesthood?

Also, I've always understood that the two prophets who would prophesy in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years would be actual LDS apostles. The EVs think they'll be Jewish. Anybody?

So as to the Anti-Zionism on this board... you may need to reassess what you believe and how the current non-LDS teachings you have let into your thought process. You are assuming that the people and leaders currently in Israel are the People any of the quotes you posted are

And why would they not be? Because they aren't Mormon? Was the founding of America inspired yet no Mormons? Are there not righteous Jews in Israel mixed with the wicked? Are all Israelis Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Kissengers, Cohens, etc? If we think this way we are in the same camp as the Thule Cult in proto-Nazi Germany. So Hitler killed all of the Ashkenazi Jews to prepare the way for the pure-blooded Jews - come on! So we need to run the current apostate counterfeit Jews into the sea to make way for the converted Mormon ones? That makes no sense at all, since they don't even get converted until the Mount of Olives? This kind of thought puts us in the camp of the Megiddo armies. Given that the Beast detroys the Whore (the Jewish patsy) would it not make sense then that Armageddon is natural offshoot of such thinking in the name of destroying the Rothschild-oriented NWO.

Do a little research on the Jerusalem Center and you will find that with a few walls in the right place, a baptismal font, and a dedication... we will have a Temple in Jerusalem!

You haven't explained why Elder Penrose says it will be where the DOR stands right now.

Mark wrote:

So as to the Anti-Zionism on this board... you may need to reassess what you believe and how the current non-LDS teachings you have let into your thought process. You are assuming that the people and leaders currently in Israel are the People any of the quotes you posted are.

IMHO the current counterfeit Jews are the snakes plan to turn the world against Gods chosen people, who are still scattered and not gathered... Satan thought; hey, I will beat God to the punch and win, but as always his plan fails allowing the true plan to continue and Gods plan prevailing.

This is where you start losing me cjex. We are living in the last days. The gathering of the Jews back to their lands has been going on for decades in fulfillment of prophesy. Many of the Brethren have spoken of this many times in the past 60 years. If the people living in Israel are not these people referenced in PJ's quotes but are counterfits and the real covenant Jews are still scattered and have not gathered yet then show me something that has been said by the prophets to back this claim up. I have only read the opposite from them. Do you really think all those living in Israel now are actually part of these counterfit Jews you speak of?

Wheat + Tares has a much broader meaning than the common Mormon interpretation. One meaning is that Satan places seemingly identical imposters in every program God establishes. This has been true since Adam. God said there was one true Church on the earth, and this applies to Judaism just as much as it does Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, and every other faith. I don't see how a religion that God doesn't fully sanction would fulfill his promises made in the LDS scriptures. If not, why didn't Joseph Smith just find a rabbi and convert instead of starting a new Church?

An apostle, Orson Hyde dedicated the land, and likely the temple to be built, whenever it is time, will be by the same priesthood authority.

My thoughts on Present day Israel and the Third Temple

The Country of Israel is a secular state. It was created by the help of God to bring His people back to their home land and prepare them for their conversion to the gospel. They have been in the past and are today experiencing the refiner’s fire, that will culminate on the day that Christ appears to them on the Mount of Olives. I can not see how the Muslims who control the Temple Mount would ever allow the Jews to build a Temple there. (Some speculate that the original Temple was built to the side of where the Dome of the Rock sits, which would therefore, not need to be destroyed.) Before this time two witnesses, Apostles of the Lord, will stay the armies of Gog and Magog for 3 1/2 years of fighting and a siege of Jerusalem. These two prophets will prophecy and bring down fire, plagues, drought, etc. until they are killed. As they lie in the street for 3 days the World will celebrate until the witnesses ascend up to meet Christ who will save those surviving Jews from the sack of Jerusalem. There will be a huge earthquake, Mount of Olives will split and water will usher forth from beneath the Temple Mount.

This will all take place after the Times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled, when the Missionaries are called home and the Gospel taken to the Jews.

During the time that the two Prophets preach to the Jews and save them from the armies of Gog, how many will be converted?

By the end of the 3 ½ years of prophesying, plagues and fire from heaven, I dare say many will be converted.

This will be before the Savior comes in Glory to the whole earth. Could this be, when the Jews who have seen the Savior and are converted to the Gospel, when the Third Temple is built?


OMD

OMD, my thoughts are that this 3 1/2 year period when the apostles defend Jersualem starts in 2012 and then armageddon happens in 2015. I learned recently that the year 2014/2015 has 6 blood moons appear. The last time that happened was the year 1948 when Israel was established. The Lord has told us that things in the heavens are for "signs and seasons". 6 blood moons in one year has to be a sign of something.

pjbrownie wrote:The UN is all against Israel - that should be a clue to you all.

there are a lot of good points in your post.

clearly there is more than meets the eye,

and well, if it aint canonised then we dont have to be concerned if it doesnt eventuate.

as for your final comment, i would suggest that the inaction of the UN against israel in both gaza and also lebanon in 2007 and that they never actually enforce any of their resolutions against israel says more.

the UN is many things.

at its core is the permanaent council. that is just about preserving power for the main 1st western world.

then there are the member states, who are made up of freeloading "dignitaries" on a gravy-train

then there are the humanitarian programs, which ARE very important and do offer hoe.

Kofi Annan was useless, and this Man-Key Moon is even worse. inept, inconsequent, incapable.

the UN is not against israel. the UN doesnt care about anything but themselves.

i think a better statement is that the UN is just corrupt, save for a few good souls who are trying to make the world a better place

Rock34 wrote: God said there was one true Church on the earth, and this applies to Judaism just as much as it does Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, and every other faith. I don't see how a religion that God doesn't fully sanction would fulfill his promises made in the LDS scriptures. If not, why didn't Joseph Smith just find a rabbi and convert instead of starting a new Church?.

the church has more in common with islam.

at leat they believe christ was a prophet.

israel still denies christ.

anyway, WE are israel. it is US, WE, the LDS.

how would you even find/ prove a person was of levi? patriachal blessing? then they would have to be LDS no?

its ours i tell you, all ours. promised to us, not those imposters. heck, show me a jew living the law of moses and i'll consider them as being legitimate claimants

[From P-51;
OMD, my thoughts are that this 3 1/2 year period when the apostles defend Jersualem starts in 2012 and then armageddon happens in 2015. I learned recently that the year 2014/2015 has 6 blood moons appear. The last time that happened was the year 1948 when Israel was established. The Lord has told us that things in the heavens are for "signs and seasons". 6 blood moons in one year has to be a sign of something.]

I have heard of the ‘blood moon” theory. Don’t know if it’s accurate or not. Could be.

Here are my views on the “signs in the heavens”;

Joseph Smith describes it thus;

Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, &tc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make His appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east.

Dan 2:21
21 And he (God) changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding

D& C 121:12
12 And also that God hath set his hand and seal to change the times and seasons, and to blind their minds, that they may not understand his marvelous workings; that he may prove them also and take them in their own craftiness;

How has and how will God change how we calculate times and the seasons?

Seasons are determined by the axial tilt of the Earth. What can change that?

Time is calculated by the rotation of the earth. What can change that?

Could a close encounter with a large “planet or comet” with a strong gravitational force cause the earth to change rotation, axial tilt, heave seas beyond its bounds, darken the sun or turn the moon red? Blood moons can do only one of these. A close encounter with a planet could do all.

What caused the earth to stop rotating twice in recorded history?

What caused The Flood, the Red Sea to part, the mana to fall from heaven?

God uses the Laws of Nature to do His miracles. I believe that we will see more than just eclipses, P-51.


[ From Aussie;
…i would suggest that the inaction of the UN against israel in both gaza and also lebanon in 2007 and that they never actually enforce any of their resolutions against israel says more.]

It was; the US, the ineptitude of Israeli leaders, and the UN that didn’t allow Israeli army to finish off Hezbollah and stopped the war. Also, do we really want a UN that can enforce their resolutions with force of arms? Think about it.

[the UN is many things.
at its core is the permanaent council. that is just about preserving power for the main 1st western world.
then there are the member states, who are made up of freeloading "dignitaries" on a gravy-train
then there are the humanitarian programs, which ARE very important and do offer hoe.
Kofi Annan was useless, and this Man-Key Moon is even worse. inept, inconsequent, incapable.
the UN is not against israel. the UN doesnt care about anything but themselves.
i think a better statement is that the UN is just corrupt, save for a few good souls who are trying to make the world a better place]

I agree with you here, Brother. The UN is corrupt and we should get out, but we won’t. WW I brought us the League of Nations, WW II brought us the UN. What will WW III bring us? A UN with enforcement powers, a more powerful World Court who could come into our countries; arrest without authority, prosecute our citizens outside our legal systems and imprison them?

[the church has more in common with islam.]

I don’t think so, Aussie. Under Islam/Sharia Law you will find;
You are stoned for converting to another religion.

If you are a young women and gang raped you are either whipped or stoned because it had to be your fault, the men are innocent.

Women are nothing but property in Islam.

Women have a certain body part cut off so they can not enjoy sex because just the men are supposed to.

You can be executed for disobeying many of the tenants of Islam. Usual method is stoning or be-heading.

There is no freedom of speech found in Islamic countries.

Daughters are killed by their fathers, normally by being burned alive, because they refuse to marry a husband chosen by the father. It is a lose of honor you see.

So, no, I don't think they have much in common with Christ's Church. They have more in common to Satan's plan in the pre-existance than Christ's.


[at leat they believe christ was a prophet.]

Many Jews think this also but they are both 1/2 wrong. Christ was the Savior and Creator of the World not just a prophet.

[israel still denies christ.]

True. When they see him on the Mount of Olives with the wounds in His hands and feet they’ll figure out their mistake. I am sure that during the 3 ½ year mission of the two Apostles many will be converted by them and the miracles they will perform.

OMD

1968 Was when the Jerusalem center was established right? Does anyone else know about the 50 year lease and the prophet at that time saying that will be enough time?

That would be 2018...

.