LDS Freedom Forum

I thought it was a 49 yr lease??

Dan 2:21
21 And he (God) changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding

D& C 121:12
12 And also that God hath set his hand and seal to change the times and seasons, and to blind their minds, that they may not understand his marvelous workings; that he may prove them also and take them in their own craftiness;

How has and how will God change how we calculate times and the seasons?

Seasons are determined by the axial tilt of the Earth. What can change that?

Time is calculated by the rotation of the earth. What can change that?

Could a close encounter with a large “planet or comet” with a strong gravitational force cause the earth to change rotation, axial tilt, heave seas beyond its bounds, darken the sun or turn the moon red? Blood moons can do only one of these. A close encounter with a planet could do all.
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The return of the City of Enoch could also put the earth into another orbit, and change the times and season, and rotate on a different axis since the earth would be heavier. At the time of the return, all of the signs mentioned above could happen: change rotation, axial tilt, heave seas beyond its bounds, darken the sun, and/or turn the moon red.

Believer

[From Believer;
The return of the City of Enoch could also put the earth into another orbit, and change the times and season, and rotate on a different axis since the earth would be heavier. At the time of the return, all of the signs mentioned above could happen: change rotation, axial tilt, heave seas beyond its bounds, darken the sun, and/or turn the moon red.]

Maybe this is the “planet” that Joseph Smith was speaking of. We know that the City of Enoch will return and be re-united with the earth. I imagine this would cause the earth to “reel to and fro like a drunken man”, or wobble in its spin, and cause all kind of kinds of havoc. Either way we’ll see more than eclipses for signs in the heavens.

OMD

Oldemandalton wrote: >>>>>>[the church has more in common with islam.]

I don’t think so, Aussie. Under Islam/Sharia Law you will find;
You are stoned for converting to another religion.

better than Psalm 137:9 (King James Version). Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones head against a rock

Read leviticus
Read the Talmud
Read the promises of what awaits for the unbeliever in the NT, BofM, D&C, try D&C19. pain now or pain later

Oldemandalton wrote:If you are a young women and gang raped you are either whipped or stoned because it had to be your fault, the men are innocent.

agree with you here. now read the Old Testament. esecially leviticus

Oldemandalton wrote:Women are nothing but property in Islam.

regrettably in too many cultures too. read leviticus
actually, read the old testmant, HUMANS are property, heck, the USA founders owned not just women as property, but MEN also. and they supported and funded one of the most hineous 300 years of human history, the slavery years. last time i checked that was the christians

Oldemandalton wrote:Women have a certain body part cut off so they can not enjoy sex because just the men are supposed to.

yeah well they are both losing out and that is stupid. but is it also the women doing it to the women?
oh, need i mention the word "foreskin"?

Oldemandalton wrote:You can be executed for disobeying many of the tenants of Islam. Usual method is stoning or be-heading.

refer old testmant, refer law of moses, refer talmud. HOW many steps could one take on a sabbath before they could be stoned? "steps!!!!"

Oldemandalton wrote:There is no freedom of speech found in Islamic countries.

(y)our protest zones are better?

Oldemandalton wrote:Daughters are killed by their fathers, normally by being burned alive, because they refuse to marry a husband chosen by the father. It is a lose of honor you see.

and in india. agree, is stupid

Oldemandalton wrote:So, no, I don't think they have much in common with Christ's Church. They have more in common to Satan's plan in the pre-existance than Christ's.

yes, absolutely agree

i also agree that fundamentalist christians who think its great to invade and blow up places like Iraq are no closer to the gospel of christ, neither those who support the israeli genocide of the palestinians

Oldemandalton wrote: >>>>>[israel still denies christ.]

True. When they see him on the Mount of Olives with the wounds in His hands and feet they’ll figure out their mistake. I am sure that during the 3 ½ year mission of the two Apostles many will be converted by them and the miracles they will perform.

who is "they"?

that is another contentious discussion.
how do we know that the lost tribes aren't a lost israel and the country of israel full of luciferian zionists (in corrupted name) arent those who enlist the hordes to oppose them?

we know squat. and what...300million people are meant ot fit in to the one valley at this time? is it possible, perhaps, that we dont have a full understanding of this event?

Aussie, you are absolutely right - except that no one follows Leviticus anymore - with its 3,000 year old dustbin commandments meant for a barbaric society in the Middle East.

Last time I checked, I believe it's like somewhere in the 10-20% range of Muslims support forced sharia, terrorism, etc. Let's see there are 1 billion Muslims in the world - carry the 2 - scratch scratch, okay that's 100,000,000 - 200,000,000 persons, roughly a third to three quarters of the population of the US who want to put my wife in a burqua and force me to pray 5 times a day.

Bottom line is that there are competing conspiracies. The Anglo-Dutch banking thingy doesn't have a monopoly on abusing power and evil.

Gman007

Is this considered anti-Zionist?
http://www.gtr5.com/

Man, I have never heard of that before. I wonder why it happened at all?

[OMD;
True. When they see him on the Mount of Olives with the wounds in His hands and feet they’ll figure out their mistake. I am sure that during the 3 ½ year mission of the two Apostles many will be converted by them and the miracles they will perform.]

[From Aussie;
who is "they"?
that is another contentious discussion.
how do we know that the lost tribes aren't a lost israel and the country of israel full of luciferian zionists (in corrupted name) arent those who enlist the hordes to oppose them?
we know squat. and what...300million people are meant ot fit in to the one valley at this time? is it possible, perhaps, that we dont have a full understanding of this event?]

“They” are the Jews who will be living in Israel at the time of Gog’s war. Israel is a purely secular state. It was prepared by God to begin the Restoration of His People back to their land of inheritance. I have not found any indication from the GAs that they believe that the Jews will be wiped out and replaced by the 12 Tribes of Israel. They are in fact part of the 12 Tribes. They could very well be suplamented by the Lost 10 Tribes, thus bring it to 12. As I stated before, I can’t see how the Temple will be built prior to Gog’s attack on Jerusalem. The secular government of Israel will never allow it, let alone the Muslim Clerics who control the Temple Mount. Will it be built during the ministry of the 2 Apostles during Gog’s siege of Jerusalem?

The Jews have got to gather to their own land in unbelief. They do not believe in Jesus of Nazareth now, nor ever will until he comes and sets his foot on Mount Olivet. They (as a nation) will remain in unbelief until that day. JD, W WOODRUFF 15:277-79

Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, Etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make his appearance. HC, J SMITH 5:337

What was the object of gathering the Jews, or the people of God in any age of the world? ...The main object was to build unto the Lord a house whereby He could reveal unto His people the ordinances of His house. HC, J SMITH 5:423

The Jews dispersed among the Gentiles will not come and sing in the height of Zion, or but very few of them, they will go to Jerusalem. Some of them will believe in the true Messiah, and thousands of the more righteous, whose fathers did not consent to the shedding of the blood of the Son of God, will receive the Gospel before they gather from among the nations. Many of them, however, will not receive the Gospel, but seeing that others are going to Jerusalem they will go also; and when they get back to Palestine, to the place where their ancient Jerusalem stood, and see a certain portion of the believing Jews endeavoring to fulfill and carry out the prophecies, they also will take hold and assist in the same work. At the same time they will have their synagogues, in which they will preach against Jesus of Nazareth, "that impostor," as they call him, who was crucified by their fathers. After awhile, when tens of thousands of them have gathered and rebuilt their Temple, and re-established Jerusalem upon its own heap. JD, O PRATT 18:64

By and by there will be a Temple built at Jerusalem. Who do you think is going to build it? You may think that it will be the unbelieving Jews who rejected the Savior. I believe that that which is contained on the 77th New HLINK of the Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 8:4-17), as well as in many other places, in that same book, will be literally fulfilled. The Temple at Jerusalem will undoubtedly be built, by those who believe in the true Messiah. Its construction will be, in some respects different from the Temples now being built. It will contain the throne of the Lord, upon which he will, at times, personally sit, and will reign over the house of Israel for ever. JD, O PRATT 19:20-21

When you see the nations of the earth, especially the heathen nations, and also those north of Jerusalem--the great nation of Russia and other nations on the continent of Asia, together with many in Europe, gather up against Jerusalem after the Jews have returned and rebuilt their city and Temple. JD, O PRATT 15:338

OMD

Yes, the existing structure on TM has to be destroyed/removed (Al Aqsa has been destroyed no less than 7 times since its inception to subvert the plan of God - read large earthquake). Also please note that we have an impostor on our "holy site" in the NJ - except the Comm. of Christ's "dome" is copper clad as opposed to gold. Likewise, that must come down, as well for God's people Ephraim/Manasseh to reclaim what is theirs.

I agree with those on this post that are calling out the 'anti-zionists' - they should stop and repent, study up on this topic and recognize God's hand in bringing Israel home. The adversary has always thrown up obstacles to attempt to interrupt God's holy work. The moslems have even gone to the extent of planting a cemetery in front of the East Gate in Israel in an attempt to thwart the Son of Man, the Great High Priest, from entering triumphantly (and ritually clean) and claiming His temple (that Judah has built as their offering in faith to HIM). It is amazing the machinations that body of people (Palestinians, Jordanians, etc.) are going thru to attempt to deny God's people their inheritance - far more insidious than anything Boggs and others historically have done to the children of Ephraim in their quest for Zion and the NJ.

Yes, Judah will have to build the temple that will rival Herod's and Solomon's in nature, size, etc. I believe after the existing structure is brought down (not by the Israelis, but by God in an act of God), then the UN or some other mediating body will work to come up with a solution that will meet all needs - otherwise there would be a bloodbath from almost any alternative scenario.

The Jerusalem center may be used for traditional purposes (work for the living and the dead) as that nation (and the Arabs) will be converted in a day and there will be immense amounts of work to do when that comes about.

For more information about what is going on over there, go and see:

www.templemountfaithful.org

There is a whole body of very dedicated Jews and Christian friends who want things to go forward, if only on God's timeline. My wife and I are interested in donating 1/2 to 1 oz. of gold towards the sacred edifice so that our interest is immortalized in a small contribution to the cause. Go here for more info:

https://www.templeinstitute.org/donate.htm

Pretty great stuff. If we support Israel as a nation, we swim - anything else and we sink. Our new POTUS needs to get that through his thick head. We can be friends to the moslem world while still supporting Israel and advancing their cause and urging moderation and humane treatment of those that were there "squatting" and taking care of their families.

>>>>>I agree with those on this post that are calling out the 'anti-zionists' - they should stop and repent, study up on this topic and recognize God's hand in bringing Israel home.


or maybe the other know it alls should stop and repent, study up on the tactics of the adversary and recognize his and mans hand in counterfeit Israel? No?



>>>>>The adversary has always thrown up obstacles to attempt to interrupt God's holy work.

like using Israel the state to turning the world against True Torah jes perhaps?
And corrupting the word Zion perhaps?

Ah no, of course Satan isn't that smart, he hasn't done that yet. No, he only destroyed the priesthood from the earth and rebuilt Christianity in his way (note: LDS doctrine differs significantly with what the world regards as "Christianity"). He only created Islam, and created Hinduism and every other ism. But he hasn't got around to creating a false Judah and Zion yet oh no. too complicated.

Come on, keep thinking it through, keep going, almost there. Has the "ah0hah" light switched on yet?"


>>>>>>>The moslems have even gone to the extent of planting a cemetery in front of the East Gate in Israel in an attempt to thwart the Son of Man, the Great High Priest, from entering triumphantly (and ritually clean) and claiming His temple (that Judah has built as their offering in faith to HIM).


oh yeah thats it, a planted cemetary is going to stop the great Jehovah from entering his house.
In any regard, my understanding is that the Lord cannot touch this earth until it has been cleansed? is that correct?
that being the case, I don't think a cemetery is going to stop the second coming.
i think his omnipotence will take care of that

of course it is ironic that islam believes in jesus as a prophet, whereas Judaism refuses to recognise him


>>>>>>It is amazing the machinations that body of people (Palestinians, Jordanians, etc.) are going thru to attempt to deny God's people their inheritance - far more insidious than anything Boggs and others historically have done to the children of Ephraim in their quest for Zion and the NJ.

takes two to tango, yes is a mess





>>>>>>Yes, Judah will have to build the temple that will rival Herod's and Solomon's in nature, size, etc. I believe after the existing structure is brought down (not by the Israelis, but by God in an act of God), then the UN or some other mediating body will work to come up with a solution that will meet all needs - otherwise there would be a bloodbath from almost any alternative scenario.


im with you, beats me how. i still can't figure out the flood and how 3 couples populatd the earth so quickly thereafter.




>>>>>>>The Jerusalem center may be used for traditional purposes (work for the living and the dead) as that nation (and the Arabs) will be converted in a day and there will be immense amounts of work to do when that comes about.

in that day we can have a hundred jerusalem centres if the lord wants


>>>>>>My wife and I are interested in donating 1/2 to 1 oz. of gold towards the sacred edifice so that our interest is immortalized in a small contribution to the cause. Go here for more info: https://www.templeinstitute.org/donate.htm

ta. do you mean physical gold or money donation here?


>>>>Pretty great stuff. If we support Israel as a nation, we swim - anything else and we sink. Our new POTUS needs to get that through his thick head. We can be friends to the moslem world while still supporting Israel and advancing their cause and urging moderation and humane treatment of those that were there "squatting" and taking care of their families.

squatting. classic. so who is squatting in the uSA right now? the indian or the white man?

welcome

Back to my original post - I think the temple will be in place prior to Gog, and it will come courtesy of WWIII. I could be wrong, however. Joseph Smith did state that there had to be a temple, but that could be in relation to an Armageddon aftermath I suppose.

When Cleon Skousen was alive and prior to his frequent guided tours of Israel, he said that the materials for building the temple in Jerusalem were in warehouses ready to go.

The Cohens have been identified. As the sons of Levi, they would be administering in the Jerusalem Temple, using the Levitical priesthood of Aaron.

The Temple Mount Faithful continue their vigil and actively attempt to get prophecy fulfilled.

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/

Not too long ago, the evangelist sites had webcams showing water flowing from the Mount and the Arabs were trying desperately to stop the flow. Meanwhile, they built another mosque on the Mount and stopped excavation activities under it, but continue destroying the rest of the Temple Mount themselves.

Geophysics And The Temple Mount
http://ldolphin.org/tempgeophy.html

From 1999 we read the following anti-water on the mount page -
http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/isreport ... water.html

But clean your tear ducts with this -
http://www.geocities.com/theseder2/waterChannels.html

"Th Western Wall is Weeping"
http://thetemplemountfaithful.org/News/20020704.htm

"The Arabs on the Temple Mount deny this and have tried to stop the flow by many means but have not succeeded. What we now know is that they are trying to bring in special pumps to stop the flow. In any case, the water continues to flow. Nothing can stop it. This special news has caused much excitement in Israel."

Temple wall collapses in 2004 -
http://www.templemountfaithful.org/News/20040204.htm

The hidden secrets of the Temple Mount -
http://www.templemount.org/tempmt.html

Video from January 2009
http://www.infolive.tv/en/infolive.tv-1 ... ird-temple

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Jerusalem

thx for posting these things

i look forward to going through them when i get a moment