The Apostasy of the Latter Days

[simpleton]

But are the members or leaders the ones in apostasy. Or are both?

Primarily the members.
In Ezek 34 I am certain it is speaking of the general membership, not the leadership. We each carry a ministry and the command to "feed my sheep". The sheep are not being fed, on either side of the veil.
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

Primarily the membership? How can you even say that when the scripture you quoted immediately states to "prophesy against the shepherd's of Isreal".
All are sick, and not excusing the membership, but it is the "shepherd's of Isreal" that God Almighty holds responsible for corrupting the vineyard. And yes, that is the leaders of today and yesterday and from bygone years. Talking about Jesus, and "Jesus loves everybody", and smooth hypocritical, politically correct written professional spiritually dead talks from the pulpit, are a "stench" in the nostrils of the Almighty. They are completely dead works. And they have been dead works for decades. They have been "blind leaders of the blind", and both are falling in the ditch, or rather we all have been falling in the ditch from decades ago.
"The prophet teacheth lies, and my people love to have it so". So there you have it, both are corrupt, both are swimming in the filthy waters of Babylon. But the plain glaring facts are, it is the leaders that lead the flock astray.
Look at us today, a filthy melting pot of Sodom and Gomorrah. And not only that but we proudly shout out our sins of Sodom from the roof tops.. A people with innocent blood on our hands. A people "lifted up in pride above all nations".
And again, it is the Prophet and his Apostles and other minions that teach the people lies, the lies of, "all is well in Zion, Zion prospereth, all is well". If we mention the name of "Jesus" enough times, we will all be saved.
That is what the scriptures very plainly tell, and the sooner we acknowledge it, the sooner we may possibly repent. The head and the tail are sick, but again, it is the head that teacheth lies.
So no, it is not "mostly the membership".

[Alexander]

[speaking of the people who receive/read the words of the book (Book of Mormon)]

2 Nephi 27
24 And again it shall come to pass that the Lord shall say unto him that shall read the words that shall be delivered him:
25 Forasmuch as this people draw near unto me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their hearts far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men—

[Alexander]

Ezekiel 13
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the Lord;
3 Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The Lord saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God.
9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord God.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered mortar:

I just realized this ties in exactly with what is said in Isaiah 2, and also the parable of the vineyard.

They make peace instead of fighting for truth and the Lord, when the enemy is at hand and is coming to destroy the hedge.

Isaiah 2
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plow-shares, and their spears into pruning-hooks—nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye and let us walk in the light of the Lord; yea, come, for ye have all gone astray, every one to his wicked ways.

Ezekiel 13
5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.
...
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered mortar:

D&C 101
50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.
51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

They are supposed to not turn their swords into ploughshares, but are to turn their ploughshares into swords. They are to fight and defend for the Lord.

Joel 3
9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

D&C 35
13 Wherefore, I call upon the weak things of the world, those who are unlearned and despised, to thresh the nations by the power of my Spirit;
14 And their arm shall be my arm, and I will be their shield and their buckler; and I will gird up their loins, and they shall fight manfully for me; and their enemies shall be under their feet; and I will let fall the sword in their behalf, and by the fire of mine indignation will I preserve them.

[Alexander]

D&C 33
4 And my vineyard has become corrupted every whit; and there is none which doeth good save it be a few; and they err in many instances because of priestcrafts, all having corrupt minds.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I know that Jacob 5 has been explored here previously in the thread, but I thought it may be of value to include Alaris' blog post where he explores Jacob 5 in detail: "Can we be lead astray?"

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... stray.html

[Alexander]

Consider Lehi's situation:
-The people believed they were the Lord's people
-They had a history of previous prophets
-They had temple worship
-There were many respected and prestigious religious leaders

And yet Lehi prophesied they were wicked and would be destroyed.

[Luke]

Consider Lehi's situation:
-The people believed they were the Lord's people
-They had a history of previous prophets
-They had temple worship
-There were many respected and prestigious religious leaders

And yet Lehi prophesied they were wicked and would be destroyed.

It’s almost like it was a type and shadow of today...

[Luke]

^^ Also, they believed that all was well and that they could not be destroyed or led astray

[Alexander]

2 Nephi 15
18 Wo unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope;
19 That say: Let him make speed, hasten his work, that we may see it; and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it.
20 Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Wo unto the wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!
22 Wo unto the mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink;
23 Who justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore, as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, their root shall be rottenness, and their blossoms shall go up as dust; because they have cast away the law of the Lord of Hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
25 Therefore, is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them; and the hills did tremble, and their carcasses were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

[darknesstolight]

But are the members or leaders the ones in apostasy. Or are both?

Primarily the members.
In Ezek 34 I am certain it is speaking of the general membership, not the leadership. We each carry a ministry and the command to "feed my sheep". The sheep are not being fed, on either side of the veil.
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

it's actually the other way around.
it's primarily the leaders.
And those that care enough to keep the commandment the Lord gave,
to not only read, but search diligently the words of Isaiah - "for great are the words of Isaiah" ***
will know this.

Isaiah is full of scriptures showing that it is -
"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).

"O you deaf, listen; O you blind, look and see! seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:17–20).

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=59515&p=1113267&hi ... 8#p1113267

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58863&p=1097535&hil ... 8#p1097535

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59092&p=1101443&hil ... t#p1101443

***
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers..."
DC 138:54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.
55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.

Root and branch equal.

You are one of the great and noble ones.

Let me repeat, Rand, you are one of the great and noble ones. That's who you really are. I am too. And so are all.

Believe it bro. Stop making our leaders the exception. They aren't. They are no more great or no more noble than any man.

Their titles and offices and nice clothes and nice homes and wordly power and wealth and their influence and their business savi and their career successes and all of these things that appear great and noble on the outside are meaningless to what is inside. None of these things mean these people are any better than you or I.

All who choose CHRIST are the great and noble ones. ALL. It's true. Just believe it!

...

[Rand]

Primarily the members.
In Ezek 34 I am certain it is speaking of the general membership, not the leadership. We each carry a ministry and the command to "feed my sheep". The sheep are not being fed, on either side of the veil.
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

it's actually the other way around.
it's primarily the leaders.
And those that care enough to keep the commandment the Lord gave,
to not only read, but search diligently the words of Isaiah - "for great are the words of Isaiah" ***
will know this.

Isaiah is full of scriptures showing that it is -
"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).

"O you deaf, listen; O you blind, look and see! seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:17–20).

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=59515&p=1113267&hi ... 8#p1113267

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58863&p=1097535&hil ... 8#p1097535

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59092&p=1101443&hil ... t#p1101443

***
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers..."
DC 138:54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.
55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.

Root and branch equal.

You are one of the great and noble ones.

Let me repeat, Rand, you are one of the great and noble ones. That's who you really are. I am too. And so are all.

Believe it bro. Stop making our leaders the exception. They aren't. They are no more great or no more noble than any man.

Their titles and offices and nice clothes and nice homes and wordly power and wealth and their influence and their business savi and their career successes and all of these things that appear great and noble on the outside are meaningless to what is inside. None of these things mean these people are any better than you or I.

All who choose CHRIST are the great and noble ones. ALL. It's true. Just believe it!

...

I appreciate your kind encouragement. I have a good understanding of this topic.

I know Leaders is not referring to the church as a whole. It pertains to the Kingdom. The Church and the kingdom are overlapping, but are not the same at all. Blessings

[darknesstolight]

it's actually the other way around.
it's primarily the leaders.
And those that care enough to keep the commandment the Lord gave,
to not only read, but search diligently the words of Isaiah - "for great are the words of Isaiah" ***
will know this.

Isaiah is full of scriptures showing that it is -
"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).

"O you deaf, listen; O you blind, look and see! seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:17–20).

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=59515&p=1113267&hi ... 8#p1113267

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58863&p=1097535&hil ... 8#p1097535

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59092&p=1101443&hil ... t#p1101443

***
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers..."
DC 138:54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.
55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.

Root and branch equal.

You are one of the great and noble ones.

Let me repeat, Rand, you are one of the great and noble ones. That's who you really are. I am too. And so are all.

Believe it bro. Stop making our leaders the exception. They aren't. They are no more great or no more noble than any man.

Their titles and offices and nice clothes and nice homes and wordly power and wealth and their influence and their business savi and their career successes and all of these things that appear great and noble on the outside are meaningless to what is inside. None of these things mean these people are any better than you or I.

All who choose CHRIST are the great and noble ones. ALL. It's true. Just believe it!

...

I appreciate your kind encouragement. I have a good understanding of this topic.

I know Leaders is not in the church as a whole. It pertains to the Kingdom. The Church and the kingdom are overlapping, but are not the same at all. Blessings

It is overlapping. I have been teaching the difference here since 2015 at least. Every TBM rejected the notion. It was no exception with folks then; you reject church you reject the kingdom. You talk bad about church you are talking bad about God and Kingdom. No seperation was allowed.

I was taught all my life the the Church IS God's Kingdom on Earth.

That is not true anymore?

In any case the big issue is that most leaders and members believe and accept as true that Church is kingdom.

I'm expecting resentment from these statements, but I simply don't care anymore. We are defenders of the faith and have made solemn covenants to build the Kingdom of God above everything else. This includes calling out potential apostates who question the leadership of the church.

...

[Cruiserdude]

Root and branch equal.

You are one of the great and noble ones.

Let me repeat, Rand, you are one of the great and noble ones. That's who you really are. I am too. And so are all.

Believe it bro. Stop making our leaders the exception. They aren't. They are no more great or no more noble than any man.

Their titles and offices and nice clothes and nice homes and wordly power and wealth and their influence and their business savi and their career successes and all of these things that appear great and noble on the outside are meaningless to what is inside. None of these things mean these people are any better than you or I.

All who choose CHRIST are the great and noble ones. ALL. It's true. Just believe it!

...

Amen to this brutha.... We need to know this now more than ever before, it seems. We need to start being who we really truly are, royal descendants of GOD.
We Christians need to stand strong in His light, for His truth and righteousness. We call out the evil, wherever it may be, and abhor it. We do not figure out how to join it. We hold ourselves peculiar and different from the world, as we were commanded.
We Christians need to turn from Babylon and her ways and need to turn to our Master.
No gov agencies, no leaders(arm of flesh), and no gov/worldly programs will save our souls/spirits! Our temp bodies are meant to die off! We fret over this part! This world offers so little in the eternal scheme of things. So so little. Smh....
There is only one way to access the eternal saving power of Christ, we deny ourselves of ungodliness and Babylonian filth and we leave our broken hearts and contrite spirits at His altar, beg for His forgiveness and promise Him that we will treat and love ALL our bros and sisses the way He showed us to. We promise we will do it the right way, HIS WAY. Follow Him and none else.
Love GOD.
Love your fellow man(in eternity actually our brothers and sisters, so yep you have to love your enemy).

[Alexander]

Jeremiah 2
7 And I brought you into a plentiful country, to eat the fruit thereof and the goodness thereof; but when ye entered, ye defiled my land, and made mine heritage an abomination.
8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
9 Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the LORD, and with your children's children will I plead.
10 For pass over the isles of Chittim, and see; and send unto Kedar, and consider diligently, and see if there be such a thing.
11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.
13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Jeremiah 10
20 My tabernacle is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains.
21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

Jeremiah 14
12 When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.
13 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.
14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

Compare this chapter in Jeremiah with what Isaiah says in Isaiah 3. They are very similar.


Jeremiah 23
9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness.
...
11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
...
13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
...
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
...
25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.
...
30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.
33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the Lord? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the Lord.
34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the Lord, I will even punish that man and his house.
35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the Lord answered? and, What hath the Lord spoken?
36 And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.
37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the Lord answered thee? and, What hath the Lord spoken?
38 But since ye say, The burden of the Lord; therefore thus saith the Lord; Because ye say this word, The burden of the Lord, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the Lord;
39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:
40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

[Theoden76]

Here's something I've been working on. I know there's a lot more, feel free to add any more:

THE OLD TESTAMENT

“Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.” (Isaiah 1:4-6)

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.” (Isaiah 25:4)

“Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand. The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet: And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up. In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.” (Isaiah 28:1-8)

“Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.” (Isaiah 28:14-18)

“Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:” (Isaiah 29:13)

“His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.” (Isaiah 56:10-12)

“For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth temples; and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will send a fire upon his cities, and it shall devour the palaces thereof.” (Hosea 8:14)

THE BOOK OF MORMON

“Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear by the name of the Lord and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness. Nevertheless, they call themselves of the holy city, but they do not stay themselves upon the God of Israel, who is the Lord of Hosts; yea, the Lord of Hosts is his name.” (1 Nephi 20:1-2, See Isaiah 48:1-2)

“And again: Hearken, O ye house of Israel, all ye that are broken off and are driven out because of the wickedness of the pastors of my people; yea, all ye that are broken off, that are scattered abroad, who are of my people, O house of Israel. Listen, O isles, unto me, and hearken ye people from far; the Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.” (1 Nephi 21:1, See Isaiah 49:1)

“Yea, for thus saith the Lord: Have I put thee away, or have I cast thee off forever? For thus saith the Lord: Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement? To whom have I put thee away, or to which of my creditors have I sold you? Yea, to whom have I sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.” (2 Nephi 7:1, See Isaiah 50:1)

“O house of Jacob, come ye and let us walk in the light of the Lord; yea, come, for ye have all gone astray, every one to his wicked ways.” (2 Nephi 12:5, See Isaiah 2:5)

“And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.” (2 Nephi 13:12, See Isaiah 3:12)

“And then will I sing to my well-beloved a song of my beloved, touching his vineyard. My well-beloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill. And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a wine-press therein; and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes. And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. What could have been done more to my vineyard that I have not done in it? Wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes it brought forth wild grapes.” (2 Nephi 15:1-4, See Isaiah 5:1-4)

“For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the Lord of Hosts. Therefore will the Lord cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush in one day. The ancient, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” (2 Nephi 19:13-16, See Isaiah 9:13-16)

“Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted. Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up. They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up. They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!” (2 Nephi 28:11-15)

“And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.” (2 Nephi 28:21)

“And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them. But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.” (3 Nephi 16:10, 15) (See D&C 101:39-40 and D&C 109:60 to understand who the Salt and who the Gentiles are)

“O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled. Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you. Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing. And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts. For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world? Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads? Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.” (Mormon 8:33-41)

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

“And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” (D&C 45:28-30)

“And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now. And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father's kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion. For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, I say unto you, Nay.” (D&C 84:53-59)

“And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;” (D&C 85:7)

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.” (D&C 112:23-26)

“When men are called unto mine everlasting gospel, and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men; They are called to be the savor of men; therefore, if that salt of the earth lose its savor, behold, it is thenceforth good for nothing only to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men.” (D&C 101:39-40)

“Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee, concerning the revelations and commandments which thou hast given unto us, who are identified with the Gentiles.” (D&C 109:60)

“For there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away, even the fulness of the priesthood.” (D&C 124:28)

QUOTES FROM CHURCH LEADERS, ETC.

“You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty.” (Mosiah Hancock Journal, pg. 19)

“When ‘Mormonism’ finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, ‘Mormonism’ will never become popular with the wicked.” (JD 4:38)

“And when the spirit of persecution, the spirit of hatred, of wrath, and malice ceases in the world against this people, it will be the time that this people have apostatized and joined hands with the wicked, and never until then; which I pray may never come.” (JD 4:326-327)

“What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.” (JD 9:150)

“There is nothing that would so soon weaken my hope and discourage me as to see this people in full fellowship with the world, and receive no more persecution from them because they are one with them. In such an event, we might bid farewell to the Holy Priesthood with all its blessings, privileges and aids to exaltations, principalities and powers in the eternities of the Gods.” (JD 10:32)

“When we see the time that we can willingly strike hands and have full fellowship with those who despise the Kingdom of God, know ye then that the Priesthood of the Son of God is out of your possession. Let us be careful how we make friends with and fellowship unrighteousness, lest the curse of God descends heavily upon us.” (JD 10:273)

“They would come now by thousands and thousands, if the Latter-day Saints were only popular. ‘What, these honorable men?’ Yes, they would say, ‘I want to be baptized. I admire your industry, and your skill in governing. You have a system of governing that is not to be found anywhere else. You know how to govern cities, territories, or the world, and I would like to join you.’ But take care if you join this people without the love of God in your soul it will do you no good. If they were to do this, they would bring in their sophistry, and introduce that which would poison the innocent and honest and lead them astray. I look at this, and I am satisfied that it will not do for the Lord to make this people popular. Why? Because all hell would want to be in the Church. The people must be kept where the finger of scorn can be pointed at them. Although it is admitted that we are honest, industrious, truthful, virtuous, self-denying, and, as a community, possess every moral excellence, yet we must be looked upon as ignorant and unworthy, and as the offscouring of society, and be hated by the world. What is the reason of this? Christ and Baal can not become friends. When I see this people grow and spread and prosper, I feel that there is more danger than when they are in poverty. Being driven from city to city or into the mountains is nothing compared to the danger of our becoming rich and being hailed by outsiders as a first-class community. I am afraid of only one thing. What is that? That we will not live our religion, and that we will partially slide a little from the path of rectitude, and go part of the way to meet our friends. (JD 12:272.)

“Brethren, this Church will be led onto the very brink of hell by the leaders of this people. Then God will raise the one mighty and strong, spoken of in the 85th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants, to save and redeem this Church.” (Provo Bowery Conference, 24 August 1867, L. Tom Perry Special Collections, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, page 106. See also The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, volume 4, edited by Richard S. Van Wagoner [Salt Lake City: The Smith-Pettit Foundation, 2009], pages 2478–2479)

“The President [Brigham Young] stopped with us. He sat at the head of the table and had me sit down at his right. The President, when everything was ready, asked a blessing, then all began to eat. He asked for some buttermilk, then crumbled some bread in it and began to eat. He conversed freely on the situation of the Saints in the mountains, and said that he dreaded the time when the Saints would become popular with the world; for he had seen in sorrow, in a dream, or in dreams, this people clothed in the fashions of Babylon, and drinking in the spirit of Babylon until one could hardly tell a Saint from a black-leg. And he felt like shouting, ‘To your tents, Oh Israel!’ because it was the only thing that could keep this people pure. Many of this people for the sake of riches and popularity, will sell themselves for that which will canker their souls and lead them down to misery and despair. It would be better for them to dwell in wigwams among the Indians than to dwell with the gentiles and miss the glories which God wishes them to obtain. I wish my families would see the point and come forth before it is too late. For oh, I can see the tendency in my families to hug the moth eaten customs of Babylon to their bosoms. This is far more hurtful to them than the deadly viper; for the poisons of the viper can be healed by the power of God. but the customs of Babylon will be hard to get rid of.” (Mosiah Hancock Journal, pg. 73)

“I would be surprised if ten percent of those who claim to hold the Melchizedek priesthood will remain faithful to the gospel at the time of the seventh president and that there would be thousands that think they hold the priesthood at that time, but would not have it properly conferred upon them.” (Minutes of a meeting, 7 September 1886)

“The Lord says, ‘Woe unto you when all men speak well of you.’ Sometimes I have known the papers say this and that good thing about the ‘Mormons,’ and I have said, ‘What’s up? Are we getting wicked, that the world loves us?’” (JD 13:297)

“What kind of a revolution would it work among the Latter-day Saints if the revelation given in March, 1831, were carried out by them, ‘It is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin?’ How much of a revolution would it accomplish in Salt Lake City if this order of things should be brought about? I think it would work a greater revolution among this people than has ever been witnessed amongst them since they had an existence as a Church.” (JD 15:355-356)

“There must be a reformation. There will be a reformation among this people, but He will plead with the stronger ones of Zion, He will plead with this people, He will plead with those in high places, He will plead with the priesthood of this church, until Zion shall become clean before him. I do not know but what it would be an utter impossibility to commence and carry out some principles pertaining to Zion right in the midst of this people. They have strayed so far that to get a people who would conform to heavenly laws it may be needful to lead some from the midst of this people and commence anew in the regions round about in these mountains.” (JD 15:360)

“It is the L. D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Deseret News, Church Section, 17 October 1936)

“It is a very apparent fact that we have traveled far and wide in the past 20 years. What the future will bring I do not know. But if we drift as far afield from fundamental things in the next 20 years, what will be left of the foundation laid by the Prophet Joseph Smith? It is easy for one who observes to see how the apostasy came about in the primitive church of Christ. Are we not traveling the same road?” (Joseph Fielding Smith Journal, 28 December 1938)

“I tell you we are beginning to follow along the course of the early Christian church. So long as that church was persecuted from without, it prospered, but when it began to be polluted from within, the church began to wither. There is creeping into our midst, and I warn you brethren about it, and I urge you to meet it, a great host of sectarian doctrines that have no place amongst us. The gospel in its simplicity, is to be found in the revelations, the teachings of the Prophet and the early leaders of the Church.” (Conference Report, October 1944, pg. 117-118)

“Even during the time of the apostles there began to be a falling away, as is clear from the Epistles of Paul, of Peter, John, James, and Jude. People began to wander off, and that wandering was increased in the succeeding centuries, accumulating speed, it seems, as it went on. They began to gather into church teachings things to make Christianity a little more palatable to the philosophers of the time. . . . They were trying to satisfy the thought and the philosophy and the reasoning of men, in order that they might have their support and probably their praise. . . . There is a deep lesson in all of that for us today. Already there are coming in amongst us doctrines that have no part or place in the pure doctrines of the restored gospel. These heresies are creeping in insidiously. They come to us from the philosophies of the Christian scholars of the day. They make our doctrines, as they made the early Christian beliefs, more palatable to our philosophers, but so surely as they destroyed the Christian church in the early days, just so surely will they destroy us if we do not stop them where they are.” (Conference Report, October 1945, pg. 165-166)

“The ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep's clothing, because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood . . . We should be careful of them.” (Conference Report, April 1949)

“In the early church the Saints were extremely anxious for two things: First, to be well thought of by the pagans. Their ears itched for praise. Do any of you brethren know anything about such a tendency as that?” (In ‘Remarks at Bishop’s Meeting’, 29 September 1950, J. Reuben Clark Papers, box 151, L. Tom Perry Special Collections, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah)

“Read your books. There is a startling parallel between the course that is coming in to us today and the course that was in the early Church, so startling that one becomes fearful.” (Conference Report, April 1952, pg. 81)

“Not only are there apostates within our midst, but there are also apostate doctrines that are sometimes taught in our classes and from our pulpits and that appear in our publications. And these apostate precepts of men cause our people to stumble. As the Book of Mormon, speaking of our day, states: ‘They have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men’ (2 Nephi 28:14).” (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg. 89-90)

“Watchmen - what of the night? We must respond by saying that all is not well in Zion.” (Conference Report, May 1986, pg. 4, See Isaiah 21:11, 2 Nephi 28:21)

"There are more people in that building (Church Office Building) that I am more afraid of than anyone in Washington, D.C." (Conversation with Stan Malstrom)

“When I review the performance of this people in comparison with what is expected, I am appalled and frightened. If we insist on spending all our time and resources building up for ourselves a worldly kingdom, that is exactly what we will inherit. In spite of our delight in defining ourselves as modern, and our tendency to think we possess a sophistication that no people in the past ever had—in spite of these things, we are, on the whole, an idolatrous people—a condition most repugnant to the Lord.” (Ensign, June 1976)

“Moroni was similarly explicit in predicting false teachings among the saints. Reflect upon the unmistakable implications of this point-blank indictment of members of the ‘holy church of God:’
‘O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God?’ (Mormon 8:38)
Since there is only one ‘holy church of God’ on earth, and since it is being polluted, the blame therefore appears to rest upon the teachers and hypocrites within that church.” (The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil, pg. 170-171)

“Religious history testifies that, with the single exception of the inhabitants of the City of Enoch, no people to whom the gospel has been given have remained faithful to their covenants for more than a few generations. Time after time the Lord has established his Church among a group who have lived his commandments for a few years and then fallen away thus bringing upon themselves his judgments. This cycle of human folly which so many prophets have noted, has repeated itself with such consistent regularity, that any group which finds itself to be the favored recipients of the gospel would do well to assume that their own apostasy is certain and the only question about it is how long it will take. . . . The fact that the Lord has found it necessary to restore his gospel so many times is in itself evidence of the regularity with which apostasy has occurred because the only thing which will cause the destruction of his Church is the wickedness of its members. . . . The prophet, Mormon, whose labors as a historian gave him an opportunity to observe the frequency of the righteousness-wickedness-punishment cycle, spoke of it as though it were a law of life which operates as a certain consequence of universal human weakness. . . . The Church is in deep trouble because seldom, if ever, has any group been as prosperous as it is today. . . . After 140 years of growth, membership numbers in the millions, persecution has largely vanished, and instead of ostracism, members are, for the most part accepted and respected. . . . To fail to consider the possibility that the members of the church are again ‘falling away’ would be to ignore one of the most thoroughly documented lessons of history.” (The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil, pg. 178, 179, 180)

“In recent years I have felt, and I think I am not alone, that we were losing the ability to correct the course of the Church. You can not appreciate how deeply I feel about the importance of this present opportunity unless you know the regard, the reverence, I have for the Book of Mormon and how seriously I have taken the warnings of the prophets, particularly Alma and Helaman. Both Alma and Helaman told of the church in their day. They warned about fast growth, the desire to be accepted by the world, to be popular, and particularly they warned about prosperity. Each time those conditions existed in combination, the Church drifted off course. All of those conditions are present in the Church today. Helaman repeatedly warned, I think four times he used these words, that the fatal drift of the church could occur ‘in the space of not many years.’ In one instance it took only six years. (See Helaman 6:32; 7:6; 11:26.)” (‘Let Them Govern Themselves’, Address given at Regional Representatives Seminar, 30 March 1990)

We are in apostasy, it is unmistakable and undeniable. Turn to God, accept the truth, and repent brothers and sisters! Repent and come unto Christ! Come unto Him and partake of His goodness. Come to KNOW Him -- for this is life eternal, to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. (John 17:3)

So I looked up the June 1976 article by Spencer Kimball.

"The people" he refers to are not the church as near as I can tell.

This was somewhat after the paragraph you quoted:

"That such a cry should be necessary among a people so blessed is amazing to me. And that such things should be found even among the Saints to some degree is scarcely believable, for these are a people who are in possession of many gifts of the Spirit, who have knowledge that puts the eternities into perspective, who have been shown the way to eternal life."

Certainly, President Kimball never shied away from telling it as he saw it.

[Swordfish33]

Imagine you're called to be the Bishop of a ward this week. What specific things would you do so that you weren't blinded and didn't lead his sheep astray as is so often warned about in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Imagine you're called to be the Bishop of a ward this week. What specific things would you do so that you weren't blinded and didn't lead his sheep astray as is so often warned about in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon?

I think I'd break the speed record for the shortest term as Bishop.

[EmmaLee]

Imagine you're called to be the Bishop of a ward this week. What specific things would you do so that you weren't blinded and didn't lead his sheep astray as is so often warned about in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon?

I think I'd break the speed record for the shortest term as Bishop.

Was going to say something similar, lol. You tow the line as a bishop, or you're not a bishop for long.

[LDS Physician]

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers..."
DC 138:54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.
55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.

Root and branch equal.

You are one of the great and noble ones.

Let me repeat, Rand, you are one of the great and noble ones. That's who you really are. I am too. And so are all.

Believe it bro. Stop making our leaders the exception. They aren't. They are no more great or no more noble than any man.

Their titles and offices and nice clothes and nice homes and wordly power and wealth and their influence and their business savi and their career successes and all of these things that appear great and noble on the outside are meaningless to what is inside. None of these things mean these people are any better than you or I.

All who choose CHRIST are the great and noble ones. ALL. It's true. Just believe it!

...

I appreciate your kind encouragement. I have a good understanding of this topic.

I know Leaders is not in the church as a whole. It pertains to the Kingdom. The Church and the kingdom are overlapping, but are not the same at all. Blessings

I was taught all my life the the Church IS God's Kingdom on Earth.

That is not true anymore?

I'm expecting resentment from these statements, but I simply don't care anymore. We are defenders of the faith and have made solemn covenants to build the Kingdom of God above everything else. This includes calling out potential apostates who question the leadership of the church.

...

When half of the US members cling to the party which champions Child Sacrifice (abortion), no ... the Church IS NOT God's Kingdom on Earth. There is certainly overlap, however.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Root and branch equal.

You are one of the great and noble ones.

Let me repeat, Rand, you are one of the great and noble ones. That's who you really are. I am too. And so are all.

Believe it bro. Stop making our leaders the exception. They aren't. They are no more great or no more noble than any man.

Their titles and offices and nice clothes and nice homes and wordly power and wealth and their influence and their business savi and their career successes and all of these things that appear great and noble on the outside are meaningless to what is inside. None of these things mean these people are any better than you or I.

All who choose CHRIST are the great and noble ones. ALL. It's true. Just believe it!

...

I appreciate your kind encouragement. I have a good understanding of this topic.

I know Leaders is not in the church as a whole. It pertains to the Kingdom. The Church and the kingdom are overlapping, but are not the same at all. Blessings

I was taught all my life the the Church IS God's Kingdom on Earth.

That is not true anymore?

I'm expecting resentment from these statements, but I simply don't care anymore. We are defenders of the faith and have made solemn covenants to build the Kingdom of God above everything else. This includes calling out potential apostates who question the leadership of the church.

...

When half of the US members cling to the party which champions Child Sacrifice (abortion), no ... the Church IS NOT God's Kingdom on Earth. There is certainly overlap, however.

I'm pretty sure there is a quote from Joseph about the distinction between the church and kingdom. They are not the same. The Book of Mormon intro states that it is the kingdom, but that was added by McConkie in the 80s.

[LDS Physician]

I appreciate your kind encouragement. I have a good understanding of this topic.

I know Leaders is not in the church as a whole. It pertains to the Kingdom. The Church and the kingdom are overlapping, but are not the same at all. Blessings

I was taught all my life the the Church IS God's Kingdom on Earth.

That is not true anymore?

I'm expecting resentment from these statements, but I simply don't care anymore. We are defenders of the faith and have made solemn covenants to build the Kingdom of God above everything else. This includes calling out potential apostates who question the leadership of the church.

...

When half of the US members cling to the party which champions Child Sacrifice (abortion), no ... the Church IS NOT God's Kingdom on Earth. There is certainly overlap, however.

I'm pretty sure there is a quote from Joseph about the distinction between the church and kingdom. They are not the same. The Book of Mormon intro states that it is the kingdom, but that was added by McConkie in the 80s.

I'm actually not surprised by either of those facts!

[SPIRIT]

Imagine you're called to be the Bishop of a ward this week. What specific things would you do so that you weren't blinded and didn't lead his sheep astray as is so often warned about in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon?

teach the truth -
as found in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon -
that the church has fallen into apostasy, and the Lord wants us to return to Him.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60718&p=1136921&hil ... t#p1136921

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60650&p=1135298&hi ... t#p1135298

[Alexander]

Isaiah 30
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

[Robin Hood]

Imagine you're called to be the Bishop of a ward this week. What specific things would you do so that you weren't blinded and didn't lead his sheep astray as is so often warned about in Isaiah and the Book of Mormon?

This happened to me a few years back.
I tried but people don't want to hear it. They want to hear "smooth things" and they want warm fuzzies, care bears, rainbows and cotton candy. It was more than frustrating!
I can imagine how some of the brethren must feel... and I only had one ward to deal with.

[cachemagic]

Here's something I've been working on. I know there's a lot more, feel free to add any more:

“It is the L. D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Deseret News, Church Section, 17 October 1936)

Joseph Fielding Smith did not say this in the 17 October 1936 article. The closest that I can find in that article is the following:

Are we not too much inclined to blame the generations that are past for the breaking of the new and everlasting covenant, and to think it is because of the great apostasy which followed the ministry of the Apostles in primitive times, that these troubles are coming upon the earth? Perhaps we should wake up to the realization that it is because of the breaking of covenants, especially the new and everlasting covenant, which is the fulness of the Gospel as it has been revealed, that the world is to be consumed by fire and few men left. Since this punishment is to come at the time of the cleansing of the earth when Christ comes again, should not Latter-day Saints take heed unto themselves? We have been given the new and everlasting covenant, and many among us have broken it, and many are now breaking it; therefore all who are guilty of this offense will aid in bringing to pass this destruction in which they will find themselves swept from the earth when the great and dreadful day of the Lord shall come.
"Hearken ye, for behold the great day of the Lord is nigh at hand." (D&C 43:17) This warning came to the Church one hundred years ago, and has been repeated many times since in the revelations to the Church. Elijah, when he came in April, 1836, declared that this great day was near even at our doors. If it was near our doors in 1836, it is one hundred years nearer fulfillment today.