random thoughts and musings

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abijah`
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random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

a place for them
Satan: "Now is the 'day of my power'"
David: "Your people shall be willing in the 'day of your power'"

Satan: "I reign from the 'rivers' to the ends of the earth"
David: "He will drink from the 'brook' by the way; therefore he will lift up his head."

Satan: "No one dares to molest or make afraid"
David: "The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath. He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter chiefs over the wide ["Rahab"] earth."
upon re-reading: i wonder if this obvious correlation could qualify as a supporting evidence for the idea that david was endowed? just a thought that popped, ill have to ruminate on that. i suppose you gotta be high up to even be capable of falling from exaltation, and if he was endowed it kind of sheds an added perspective to the significance of the lord not leaving his soul in hell. wheres that joseph smith quote

"the Prophet Joseph Smith has said, ‘David sought repentance at the hand of God carefully with tears, for the murder of Uriah; but he could only get it through hell: he got a promise that his soul should not be left in hell.’ "

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Alaris
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by Alaris »

Great thoughts my friends - what are the sources of the David quotes?

I've been thinking about the endowment a lot lately - particularly where the adversary says he will buy up armies to rule and oppress. I should do a full breakdown here but this all happens - as I recall - just before Peter casts out the devil and Adam and Eve are brought into the terrestrial world:

LUCIFER: You have looked over my kingdom and want to take possession of the whole of it.

What's amazing about the endowment is Jesus literally sends messengers - Peter, James, and John - whose true identities are hidden. It is the messengers that prepare Adam and Eve to move to the Terrestrial - exactly as the Book of Revelation prophecies - who are the doing the works of preparing Israel and the world for the millennium? The messengers of Jehovah.

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

psalm 110
The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”
The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.
The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”
The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath. He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses; he will shatter chiefs over the wide earth.
He will drink from the brook by the way; therefore he will lift up his head.

psalm 75
I say to the boastful, ‘Do not boast,’ and to the wicked, ‘Do not lift up your horn;
do not lift up your horn on high, or speak with haughty neck.’”
For not from the east or from the west and not from the wilderness comes lifting up,
but it is God who executes judgment, putting down one and lifting up another.
For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup with foaming wine, well mixed, and he pours out from it, and all the wicked of the earth shall drain it down to the dregs.
But I will declare it forever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob.
All the horns of the wicked I will cut off, but the horns of the righteous shall be lifted up.

zechariah 1
And I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, four horns!
And I said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these?” And he said to me, “These are the horns that have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.”
Then the LORD showed me four craftsmen.
And I said, “What are these coming to do?” He said, “These are the horns that scattered Judah, so that no one raised his head. And these have come to terrify them, to cast down the horns of the nations who lifted up their horns against the land of Judah to scatter it.”
Last edited by abijah` on March 29th, 2020, 1:00 am, edited 6 times in total.

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

Alaris wrote: March 28th, 2020, 4:53 pm Great thoughts my friends - what are the sources of the David quotes?

I've been thinking about the endowment a lot lately - particularly where the adversary says he will buy up armies to rule and oppress. I should do a full breakdown here but this all happens - as I recall - just before Peter casts out the devil and Adam and Eve are brought into the terrestrial world:

LUCIFER: You have looked over my kingdom and want to take possession of the whole of it.

What's amazing about the endowment is Jesus literally sends messengers - Peter, James, and John - whose true identities are hidden. It is the messengers that prepare Adam and Eve to move to the Terrestrial - exactly as the Book of Revelation prophecies - who are the doing the works of preparing Israel and the world for the millennium? The messengers of Jehovah.
interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing 🙂

TPJS 339

psalm 16
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

romans 11 (compare jacob 5)
a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in
this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”
...
Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
...
For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?
...
do not be arrogant toward the natural branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

luke 23
away with this man, and release to us Barabbas

john 19
"we have no king but Caesar"

matthew 27
“His blood be on us and on our children

So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

matthew 12
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

isaiah 54
🎵“Sing, O barren one, who did not bear; break forth into singing and cry aloud 🎵 you who have not been in labour! For the children of the desolate one will be more than the children of her who is married,” says the LORD.

psalm 102
You will arise and have pity on Zion; it is the time to favour her; the appointed time has come.
For your servants hold her stones dear and have pity on her dust.
Nations will fear the name of the YHWH, and all the kings of the earth will fear your glory.
For the LORD builds up Zion; he appears in his glory

isaiah 43
Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.

jeremiah 31
How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

Image

isaiah 42
🎶 Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise from the ends of the earth
For a long time I have held my peace; I have kept still and restrained myself; now I will cry out like a woman in labour

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

abijah` wrote: March 28th, 2020, 4:23 pm Satan: "I reign from the 'river' to the ends of the earth"
psalm 72 (messianic psalm)
May he have dominion from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth

revelation 9
“Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”

revelation 16
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east.

jeremiah 46
The sword shall devour and be sated and drink its fill of their blood. For the Lord GOD of hosts holds a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Image

Image

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

genesis 1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

2 cor 12
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven

1 kings 10
Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and sixtalents of gold
Last edited by abijah` on April 1st, 2020, 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

exodus 34
for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

ezekiel 8
Then he said to me, “Son of man, lift up your eyes now toward the north.” So I lifted up my eyes toward the north, and behold, north of the altar gate, in the entrance, was this image of jealousy.

Image

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

Image

Genesis was a revolutionary perspective among other mesopotamian viewpoints. it subverts the promethian lie that lucifer's role in the fall was some noble act to release adam & eve from their "enslavement" to their creators...

maybe a new tiamat can split for a new earth, perhaps a new aldebaran can divide for a new heaven. probably depends a lot on who you ask, and what name you use 😏

http://guamdaveo.blogspot.com/2018/03/reading-genesis-1-as-ancient-cosmology_24.html?m=1 -

Days 1-3 of Creation: Creation on these days is characterized by God's actions of "naming" and "separating." Again Walton makes the point that creation is not bringing new material into existence but ordering material, giving it function and purpose. On days 1-3 God designs creation to provide for the basic needs of human beings. On day 1 God creates light and organizes it into periods of light and darkness, thus creating time. On day 2, God divides the waters above from those below with a hard surface that holds the cosmic waters above and provides a space between them and the waters below. He organizes this space to regulate the waters and thus provides weather. Finally on day 3, the dry land is separated from the waters below and made to produce vegetation that would nourish people. God pronounces this to be "good," that is it is now operating according to the functions he has designated. God has now provided an environment that meets the needs for his plans to be accomplished.

Days 4-6 of Creation: On these days God creates the agents that fulfill the functions and occupy the spaces created on Days 1-3. The sun, moon and stars are assigned to the firmament to fulfill the functions of marking times and seasons. The sky and sea animals are created (The word bārāʾ, is picked up again for days 5 and 6) to fill the areas created on Day 2. On the 6th day land animals and humans are created to occupy the land and eat the food created on Day 3. God also blesses the creatures on Day 5-6 to be productive. The longest description is of the creation of humans for whom all of creation happens and who will represent God to the rest of creation.

Image

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

abijah` wrote: April 1st, 2020, 8:33 pm exodus 34
for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

ezekiel 8
Then he said to me, “Son of man, lift up your eyes now toward the north.” So I lifted up my eyes toward the north, and behold, north of the altar gate, in the entrance, was this image of jealousy.

Image
1 kings 18
And he answered, “I have not troubled Israel, but you have, and your father’s house, because you have abandoned the commandments of the LORD and followed Baal
Now therefore send and gather all Israel to me at Mount Carmel, and the 450 prophets of Baal and the 400 prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table"...
And Elijah said to them, “Seize the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape.” And they seized them. And Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon and slaughtered them there.

Raphael Patai
"The extent of the worship of these Sidonian deities in Ahab’s court is attested by the report that 450 prophets of the Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah ate at the table of Jezebel. It was these prophets whom Elijah met on Mount Carmel, in a great public rain-making contest which ended with the utter defeat of the Canaanite god and a miraculous vindication of Yahweh. It is interesting to observe that Elijah did not accuse the people of having abandoned Yahweh for the foreign gods but merely of dividing their attentions between both. Although the 400 prophets of Asherah seem to have attended the meeting on Mount Carmel, only the 450 prophets of Baal were challenged to the contest by Elijah, and no further word is said in the entire detailed narrative about the prophets of Asherah. The appeal of the Baal prophets to their god and that of Elijah to Yahweh are surprisingly similar, in fact, almost identical. When Yahweh’s fire (lightning?) descends on Elijah’s altar and thus proves His superiority, the people side with Elijah, and burst into shouts of “Yahweh is the god!” Thereupon the 450 prophets of the Baal are seized, dragged down into the valley, and slaughtered at the River Kishon. No word is said about the fate of the 400 prophets of Asherah. The inference must be that, not being part of the contest, no harm befell them. If so, they must have continued unhindered to serve their goddess. Nor was the Asherah which Ahab had “made” and set up in Samaria removed or in any way harmed either as a result of Elijah’s victory over the prophets of the Baal, or during the remaining years of Ahab’s reign. It would appear then that only the Baal was considered by Elijah (and the strict Yahwists in general) as a dangerous rival of Yahweh, while the Goddess Asherah was regarded as his inevitable, necessary, or at any rate tolerable, female counterpart.
How are we to explain the extraordinary hold Asherah exercised over the people of Israel? We can only make an informed guess to the effect that she answered the psychological need for a mother-goddess which was keenly felt by the people and its leaders alike throughout the centuries following the conquest of Canaan. Equally intriguing is the question: why was the Yahwist opposition to the Asherah worship so much milder and, at any rate, so much less effective than the struggle against Baal? Could it be that even in the eyes of those with the strongest pro-Yahwist sentiments, who were ready to put to death every Baalist and eradicate all physical traces of Baal worship, the cult of Asherah did not appear as an equal ritual sin? Was the goddess perhaps regarded as complementary to, rather than competitive with, Yahweh, and her worship therefore tolerated? Or was the cult and the accompanying belief so strongly entrenched in the populace that even zealous Yahwists like Elijah, Jehu, and the Rechabites, however offensive Asherah was in their eyes, did not dare take action against her? Wherever the answer lies, the continuity of Asherah worship in Israel is a fact which must be recognized and remembered in any attempt to trace the subsequent role played by the concept of a female divinity in the popular religion of the people of Judaea and their heirs, the Jews."

abijah`
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

matt 20
But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them."

"be careful what you wish for...

"be careful what you do...

"because you just might get what you deserve..

"the menians recognise that they are being presented with a very stark and binary choice... between slavery or war"

abijah`
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Posts: 3481

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

supplementing my scripture study today. gonna edit as i go, so my text doesnt auto-refresh and delete like it did earlier 😫

zechariah 13

verse1
On that day there shall be a fountain ('maqowr', מָקוֹר) opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness.
Image

pretty interesting verse id say. the feel of it when compared against the backdrop of the surrounding context is very hopeful and consoling - zech 12 ends with a scene of mourning among the lord's tried covenant people, ch 13 begins with the fresh image of blessing favour.

the connections with baptism seem apparent. less apparent are the connections with the levite purification rites of the Law,

numbers 19
And a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place. And they shall be kept for the water for impurity for the congregation of the people of Israel; it is a sin offering.

numbers 8
Thus you shall do to them to cleanse them: sprinkle the water of purification upon them

in this context its probably referring to the water basin just outside the tabernacle

Image

so, something to do with sanctification it would seem. a type of things to come perhaps, wherein outward behaviours and obedience to carnal commandments become a thing of the past, and instead when the inward heart and spirit become the battleground between choosing righteousness or falseness.

perhaps the sanctification made available to the house of david as well as jerusalem following the conflicts of zechariah 12, have something to do with the baptism of fire, being reborn (baptism) in and of God

another potential application i see here has to do with, how in the new testament the term used for 'eye' can also be interpreted to indicate a 'fountain', which of itself isnt really significant, but further points could be helpful

matthew 6
The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,
but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

the story of the bible (and the world) ends with an image of the temple and a stream of water flowing therefrom,

rev 22
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

if my body is the lord's house, perhaps it is my responsibility as to what manner of water flows from it, whether or not my dead sea be healed or further polluted.

perhaps some further relevance in 1 nephi ?

ch 11
And it came to pass that I beheld that the rod of iron, which my father had seen, was the word of God, which led to the fountain of living waters, or to the tree of life; which waters are a representation of the love of God

ch 12
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw; yea, even the river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are the depths of hell.

maybe there is some sort of connection between 'eye' and 'fountain' after all, the description of the two types of founts in nephi's vision seems to directly parallel jesus's description of the two types of eyes in the sermon-on-the-mount. also notable regarding the connection with light / darkness, is that the waters of life by the tree of life in revelation & 1 nephi is described as being "bright", or even "sparkling". so again, one image of a fountain of water-infused-with-light and the other image of a fountain of water-infused-with-darkness. the implication seems to be that the river proceeds endlessly irrespective of what manner of water it brings forth - its up to us whether we turn to christ to purify it or not. id rather my blood be turned to light-fluid in my new body as opposed to dark-fluid.

of course, im well aware that the specific term jesus employs in matt 6 isnt 'ayin', but rather the greek word 'ophthalmos' (ὀφθαλμός). i still find it applicable nonetheless, particularly the interesting potential significances behind the etymology of 'ophthalmos'. the mainstream breakdown divides it between "ops-" and "-thalamos", ops meaning 'eye', thalamos meaning 'inner chamber'. as in, holy of holies, the eye within, of the spirit.

not even this, the derivation of "ops-" doesnt even necessarily appear to be accurate, its not "op-", but "oph-", the 'h' makes a difference, etymologically speaking.

what could "oph-" be referring to? perhaps something to do with serpents. perhaps the esoteric meaning behind the word used by jesus for 'eye' (in possible connection with 'fountain') rather connotes something along the lines of "inner chamber of the snake".

maybe ancient egypt knew somewhat concerning these connections, and thus displayed it on her pharaoh's, the serpent of wisdom protruding from the eye of the mind?

Image

perhaps this eye is what produces the light (the life which flows out of god) for the blood circulating the entire body (rivers which fertilise & nourish the land roundabout)

john 4
whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

verse2
And on that day, declares the LORD of hosts, I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, so that they shall be remembered no more. And also I will remove from the land the prophets and the spirit of uncleanness.
new paragraph. many commentaries maintain that israel's cardinal pre-captivity sins (zechariah lived in the second temple era of zerubabel, after cyrus restored the jews to their homeland) were idolatry and the false prophesyings encouraging it.

so after the fount of verse 1 is established among the restored house of david and inhabitants of jerusalem, those things which originally caused the sin & uncleanness are themselves rooted out, a further apparent connection with the fruits of the new covenant replacing and transcending the old one at horeb

verse3
And if anyone again prophesies, his father and mother who bore him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, for you speak lies in the name of the LORD.’ And his father and mother who bore him shall pierce him through when he prophesies.
the obvious implication here (as well as verse two) that false prophets / prophecies are being referred to

the picture of the child being slain by the parents is from the commandment of the Law -

deuteronomy 13
If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known,
some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other,
you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him.
But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

again, zech 12:3 seems again to indicate that things will be different at that time. whereas pre-captivity israel abounded with false prophets who always seemed to escape the justice of god's law, even so in post-captivity covenant israel god's justice abounds and forms the national defacto rule of law

verse4and5
On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies. He will not put on a hairy cloak in order to deceive,
but he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a worker of the soil, for a man sold me in my youth.’
again to clarify, every false prophet. everyone who went around proclaiming their version of the gospel and what they think will happen in the name of the lord, deceiving as if their words were told them by god, as well as mimicking the outward characteristics of old testament prophets by wearing rough garments like john or elijah

their shame, and prior falseness seems to, somehow through the workings of the lord (likely verse 1 especially) become indisputable and public. again perhaps suggesting a telestial ---> terrestrial transition among the city / nation, wherein the previously-concealed ugliness of these false prophets is laid bare for all to know and judge. they sure seem quick to deny the corruption in their minds / hearts as soon as the telestial veil ceases to obscure and hide them. interestingly their given alibi when questioned is that they were a "tiller of the ground".

verse6
And if one asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your back?’ he will say, ‘The wounds I received in the house of my friends.’
so i know the official church interpretation here is that this verse applies to christ. im not going to come out and call that wrong because what do i know, but it is important to point out that other christian interpretations and bible commentaries contradict this, and which frankly seem to be more in line with the context of the chapter. the preceding verses speak of false prophets in a unbroken narrative through verse six here, with seemingly zero clues or links to a messianic application, though i wont pass judgement personally or pose any stance i would call authoritative. dont want to be like unto the false prophets being referred to in the text! 😝

as for the wounds, it could be a form of self-mutilation in past service to those idols (whose names have since been cut off in the land), similar to the priests of baal in supplication to their master

the term for "friends" ('aheb) is actually a fairly intimate one, often connoting deep familial love and perhaps the presupposition of a covenant relationship. perhaps it is something of a reference to idol deities, or the fellow-participants in the heathen rites, oftentimes being sexual partners.

verse7
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
likely set here to form a contrast between the wounds of the false prophet referred to earlier, and the wounds of the true prophet the messiah. the "sword" being the instrument of death seems at first unable and / or unwilling to smite the shepherd and must needs be awakened by divine intervention.

the term for "man" actually means "valiant man"

the idea of "fellow" or "one standing beside me" seems to indicate someone of a similar substance, station and function as the one speaking i.e YHWH

verse8and9
In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
it seems interesting to me how during the war in heaven 1/3 fell and 2/3 progressed whereas this now seems reversed here.

i feel somewhat impressed that this whole idea of divisions of three among the people has to do with the allotment of the firstborn as mandated in the Law,

deuteronomy 21
but he shall acknowledge the firstborn, the son of the unloved, by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the firstfruits of his strength. The right of the firstborn is his.

in abraham 3 it says god chose the first, the second became angry, and drew a 1/3 part away.

6.6/10, 66/100, 666/1000 all potentially signify 2/3s, a firstborn's portion i guess. firstborn of whom? and in what context? in the telestial sphere, or the terrestrial world perhaps? maybe given the overall context perhaps the latter is more likely. and not to mention the scripture describes the refinement of the 1/3 that the lord saves as being like silver.

Image

i need to research more into the significance of "silver" in the scriptures. joseph's cup is silver, jesus is sold for pieces of silver, etc. its hard for me to say much on that now, since without looking into it further first, im a bit thrown for a loop regarding how the scriptures often couple gold & silver as though they are at least in the same class as one another, and in other places seems to purposely differentiate between the two

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Davka
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by Davka »

abijah` wrote: April 17th, 2020, 4:20 pm supplementing my scripture study today. gonna edit as i go, so my text doesnt auto-refresh and delete like it did earlier 😫

zechariah 13

verse1
On that day there shall be a fountain ('maqowr', מָקוֹר) opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness.
Image

pretty interesting verse id say. the feel of it when compared against the backdrop of the surrounding context is very hopeful and consoling - zech 12 ends with a scene of mourning among the lord's tried covenant people, ch 13 begins with the fresh image of blessing favour.

the connections with baptism seem apparent. less apparent are the connections with the levite purification rites of the Law,

numbers 19
And a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place. And they shall be kept for the water for impurity for the congregation of the people of Israel; it is a sin offering.

numbers 8
Thus you shall do to them to cleanse them: sprinkle the water of purification upon them

in this context its probably referring to the water basin just outside the tabernacle

Image

so, something to do with sanctification it would seem. a type of things to come perhaps, wherein outward behaviours and obedience to carnal commandments become a thing of the past, and instead when the inward heart and spirit become the battleground between choosing righteousness or falseness.

perhaps the sanctification made available to the house of david as well as jerusalem following the conflicts of zechariah 12, have something to do with the baptism of fire, being reborn (baptism) in and of God

another potential application i see here has to do with, how in the new testament the term used for 'eye' can also be interpreted to indicate a 'fountain', which of itself isnt really significant, but further points could be helpful

matthew 6
The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,
but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

the story of the bible (and the world) ends with an image of the temple and a stream of water flowing therefrom,

rev 22
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

if my body is the lord's house, perhaps it is my responsibility as to what manner of water flows from it, whether or not my dead sea be healed or further polluted.

perhaps some further relevance in 1 nephi ?

ch 11
And it came to pass that I beheld that the rod of iron, which my father had seen, was the word of God, which led to the fountain of living waters, or to the tree of life; which waters are a representation of the love of God

ch 12
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw; yea, even the river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are the depths of hell.

maybe there is some sort of connection between 'eye' and 'fountain' after all, the description of the two types of founts in nephi's vision seems to directly parallel jesus's description of the two types of eyes in the sermon-on-the-mount. also notable regarding the connection with light / darkness, is that the waters of life by the tree of life in revelation & 1 nephi is described as being "bright", or even "sparkling". so again, one image of a fountain of water-infused-with-light and the other image of a fountain of water-infused-with-darkness. the implication seems to be that the river proceeds endlessly irrespective of what manner of water it brings forth - its up to us whether we turn to christ to purify it or not. id rather my blood be turned to light-fluid in my new body as opposed to dark-fluid.

of course, im well aware that the specific term jesus employs in matt 6 isnt 'ayin', but rather the greek word 'ophthalmos' (ὀφθαλμός). i still find it applicable nonetheless, particularly the interesting potential significances behind the etymology of 'ophthalmos'. the mainstream breakdown divides it between "ops-" and "-thalamos", ops meaning 'eye', thalamos meaning 'inner chamber'. as in, holy of holies, the eye within, of the spirit.

not even this, the derivation of "ops-" doesnt even necessarily appear to be accurate, its not "op-", but "oph-", the 'h' makes a difference, etymologically speaking.

what could "oph-" be referring to? perhaps something to do with serpents. perhaps the esoteric meaning behind the word used by jesus for 'eye' (in possible connection with 'fountain') rather connotes something along the lines of "inner chamber of the snake".

maybe ancient egypt knew somewhat concerning these connections, and thus displayed it on her pharaoh's, the serpent of wisdom protruding from the eye of the mind?

Image

perhaps this eye is what produces the light (the life which flows out of god) for the blood circulating the entire body (rivers which fertilise & nourish the land roundabout)

john 4
whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

verse2
And on that day, declares the LORD of hosts, I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, so that they shall be remembered no more. And also I will remove from the land the prophets and the spirit of uncleanness.
new paragraph. many commentaries maintain that israel's cardinal pre-captivity sins (zechariah lived in the second temple era of zerubabel, after cyrus restored the jews to their homeland) were idolatry and the false prophesyings encouraging it.

so after the fount of verse 1 is established among the restored house of david and inhabitants of jerusalem, those things which originally caused the sin & uncleanness are themselves rooted out, a further apparent connection with the fruits of the new covenant replacing and transcending the old one at horeb

verse3
And if anyone again prophesies, his father and mother who bore him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, for you speak lies in the name of the LORD.’ And his father and mother who bore him shall pierce him through when he prophesies.
the obvious implication here (as well as verse two) that false prophets / prophecies are being referred to

the picture of the child being slain by the parents is from the commandment of the Law -

deuteronomy 13
If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known,
some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other,
you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him.
But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

again, zech 12:3 seems again to indicate that things will be different at that time. whereas pre-captivity israel abounded with false prophets who always seemed to escape the justice of god's law, even so in post-captivity covenant israel god's justice abounds and forms the national defacto rule of law

verse4and5
On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies. He will not put on a hairy cloak in order to deceive,
but he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a worker of the soil, for a man sold me in my youth.’
again to clarify, every false prophet. everyone who went around proclaiming their version of the gospel and what they think will happen in the name of the lord, deceiving as if their words were told them by god, as well as mimicking the outward characteristics of old testament prophets by wearing rough garments like john or elijah

their shame, and prior falseness seems to, somehow through the workings of the lord (likely verse 1 especially) become indisputable and public. again perhaps suggesting a telestial ---> terrestrial transition among the city / nation, wherein the previously-concealed ugliness of these false prophets is laid bare for all to know and judge. they sure seem quick to deny the corruption in their minds / hearts as soon as the telestial veil ceases to obscure and hide them. interestingly their given alibi when questioned is that they were a "tiller of the ground".

verse6
And if one asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your back?’ he will say, ‘The wounds I received in the house of my friends.’
so i know the official church interpretation here is that this verse applies to christ. im not going to come out and call that wrong because what do i know, but it is important to point out that other christian interpretations and bible commentaries contradict this, and which frankly seem to be more in line with the context of the chapter. the preceding verses speak of false prophets in a unbroken narrative through verse six here, with seemingly zero clues or links to a messianic application, though i wont pass judgement personally or pose any stance i would call authoritative. dont want to be like unto the false prophets being referred to in the text! 😝

as for the wounds, it could be a form of self-mutilation in past service to those idols (whose names have since been cut off in the land), similar to the priests of baal in supplication to their master

the term for "friends" ('aheb) is actually a fairly intimate one, often connoting deep familial love and perhaps the presupposition of a covenant relationship. perhaps it is something of a reference to idol deities, or the fellow-participants in the heathen rites, oftentimes being sexual partners.

verse7
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
likely set here to form a contrast between the wounds of the false prophet referred to earlier, and the wounds of the true prophet the messiah. the "sword" being the instrument of death seems at first unable and / or unwilling to smite the shepherd and must needs be awakened by divine intervention.

the term for "man" actually means "valiant man"

the idea of "fellow" or "one standing beside me" seems to indicate someone of a similar substance, station and function as the one speaking i.e YHWH

verse8and9
In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
it seems interesting to me how during the war in heaven 1/3 fell and 2/3 progressed whereas this now seems reversed here.

i feel somewhat impressed that this whole idea of divisions of three among the people has to do with the allotment of the firstborn as mandated in the Law,

deuteronomy 21
but he shall acknowledge the firstborn, the son of the unloved, by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the firstfruits of his strength. The right of the firstborn is his.

in abraham 3 it says god chose the first, the second became angry, and drew a 1/3 part away.

6.6/10, 66/100, 666/1000 all potentially signify 2/3s, a firstborn's portion i guess. firstborn of whom? and in what context? in the telestial sphere, or the terrestrial world perhaps? maybe given the overall context perhaps the latter is more likely. and not to mention the scripture describes the refinement of the 1/3 that the lord saves as being like silver.

Image

i need to research more into the significance of "silver" in the scriptures. joseph's cup is silver, jesus is sold for pieces of silver, etc. its hard for me to say much on that now, since without looking into it further first, im a bit thrown for a loop regarding how the scriptures often couple gold & silver as though they are at least in the same class as one another, and in other places seems to purposely differentiate between the two
THIS was a fascinating read. Thanks.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by BeNotDeceived »

abijah` wrote: April 17th, 2020, 4:20 pm supplementing my scripture study today. gonna edit as i go, so my text doesnt auto-refresh and delete like it did earlier 😫

zechariah 13

verse1
On that day there shall be a fountain ('maqowr', מָקוֹר) opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness.
Image

pretty interesting verse id say. the feel of it when compared against the backdrop of the surrounding context is very hopeful and consoling - zech 12 ends with a scene of mourning among the lord's tried covenant people, ch 13 begins with the fresh image of blessing favour.

the connections with baptism seem apparent. less apparent are the connections with the levite purification rites of the Law,

numbers 19
And a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place. And they shall be kept for the water for impurity for the congregation of the people of Israel; it is a sin offering.

numbers 8
Thus you shall do to them to cleanse them: sprinkle the water of purification upon them

in this context its probably referring to the water basin just outside the tabernacle

Image

so, something to do with sanctification it would seem. a type of things to come perhaps, wherein outward behaviours and obedience to carnal commandments become a thing of the past, and instead when the inward heart and spirit become the battleground between choosing righteousness or falseness.

perhaps the sanctification made available to the house of david as well as jerusalem following the conflicts of zechariah 12, have something to do with the baptism of fire, being reborn (baptism) in and of God

another potential application i see here has to do with, how in the new testament the term used for 'eye' can also be interpreted to indicate a 'fountain', which of itself isnt really significant, but further points could be helpful

matthew 6
The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,
but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

the story of the bible (and the world) ends with an image of the temple and a stream of water flowing therefrom,

rev 22
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

if my body is the lord's house, perhaps it is my responsibility as to what manner of water flows from it, whether or not my dead sea be healed or further polluted.

perhaps some further relevance in 1 nephi ?

ch 11
And it came to pass that I beheld that the rod of iron, which my father had seen, was the word of God, which led to the fountain of living waters, or to the tree of life; which waters are a representation of the love of God

ch 12
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw; yea, even the river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are the depths of hell.

maybe there is some sort of connection between 'eye' and 'fountain' after all, the description of the two types of founts in nephi's vision seems to directly parallel jesus's description of the two types of eyes in the sermon-on-the-mount. also notable regarding the connection with light / darkness, is that the waters of life by the tree of life in revelation & 1 nephi is described as being "bright", or even "sparkling". so again, one image of a fountain of water-infused-with-light and the other image of a fountain of water-infused-with-darkness. the implication seems to be that the river proceeds endlessly irrespective of what manner of water it brings forth - its up to us whether we turn to christ to purify it or not. id rather my blood be turned to light-fluid in my new body as opposed to dark-fluid.

of course, im well aware that the specific term jesus employs in matt 6 isnt 'ayin', but rather the greek word 'ophthalmos' (ὀφθαλμός). i still find it applicable nonetheless, particularly the interesting potential significances behind the etymology of 'ophthalmos'. the mainstream breakdown divides it between "ops-" and "-thalamos", ops meaning 'eye', thalamos meaning 'inner chamber'. as in, holy of holies, the eye within, of the spirit.

not even this, the derivation of "ops-" doesnt even necessarily appear to be accurate, its not "op-", but "oph-", the 'h' makes a difference, etymologically speaking.

what could "oph-" be referring to? perhaps something to do with serpents. perhaps the esoteric meaning behind the word used by jesus for 'eye' (in possible connection with 'fountain') rather connotes something along the lines of "inner chamber of the snake".

maybe ancient egypt knew somewhat concerning these connections, and thus displayed it on her pharaoh's, the serpent of wisdom protruding from the eye of the mind?

Image

perhaps this eye is what produces the light (the life which flows out of god) for the blood circulating the entire body (rivers which fertilise & nourish the land roundabout)

john 4
whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

verse2
And on that day, declares the LORD of hosts, I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, so that they shall be remembered no more. And also I will remove from the land the prophets and the spirit of uncleanness.
new paragraph. many commentaries maintain that israel's cardinal pre-captivity sins (zechariah lived in the second temple era of zerubabel, after cyrus restored the jews to their homeland) were idolatry and the false prophesyings encouraging it.

so after the fount of verse 1 is established among the restored house of david and inhabitants of jerusalem, those things which originally caused the sin & uncleanness are themselves rooted out, a further apparent connection with the fruits of the new covenant replacing and transcending the old one at horeb

verse3
And if anyone again prophesies, his father and mother who bore him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, for you speak lies in the name of the LORD.’ And his father and mother who bore him shall pierce him through when he prophesies.
the obvious implication here (as well as verse two) that false prophets / prophecies are being referred to

the picture of the child being slain by the parents is from the commandment of the Law -

deuteronomy 13
If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known,
some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other,
you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him.
But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

again, zech 12:3 seems again to indicate that things will be different at that time. whereas pre-captivity israel abounded with false prophets who always seemed to escape the justice of god's law, even so in post-captivity covenant israel god's justice abounds and forms the national defacto rule of law

verse4and5
On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies. He will not put on a hairy cloak in order to deceive,
but he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a worker of the soil, for a man sold me in my youth.’
again to clarify, every false prophet. everyone who went around proclaiming their version of the gospel and what they think will happen in the name of the lord, deceiving as if their words were told them by god, as well as mimicking the outward characteristics of old testament prophets by wearing rough garments like john or elijah

their shame, and prior falseness seems to, somehow through the workings of the lord (likely verse 1 especially) become indisputable and public. again perhaps suggesting a telestial ---> terrestrial transition among the city / nation, wherein the previously-concealed ugliness of these false prophets is laid bare for all to know and judge. they sure seem quick to deny the corruption in their minds / hearts as soon as the telestial veil ceases to obscure and hide them. interestingly their given alibi when questioned is that they were a "tiller of the ground".

verse6
And if one asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your back?’ he will say, ‘The wounds I received in the house of my friends.’
so i know the official church interpretation here is that this verse applies to christ. im not going to come out and call that wrong because what do i know, but it is important to point out that other christian interpretations and bible commentaries contradict this, and which frankly seem to be more in line with the context of the chapter. the preceding verses speak of false prophets in a unbroken narrative through verse six here, with seemingly zero clues or links to a messianic application, though i wont pass judgement personally or pose any stance i would call authoritative. dont want to be like unto the false prophets being referred to in the text! 😝

as for the wounds, it could be a form of self-mutilation in past service to those idols (whose names have since been cut off in the land), similar to the priests of baal in supplication to their master

the term for "friends" ('aheb) is actually a fairly intimate one, often connoting deep familial love and perhaps the presupposition of a covenant relationship. perhaps it is something of a reference to idol deities, or the fellow-participants in the heathen rites, oftentimes being sexual partners.

verse7
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me, declares the LORD of hosts. Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
likely set here to form a contrast between the wounds of the false prophet referred to earlier, and the wounds of the true prophet the messiah. the "sword" being the instrument of death seems at first unable and / or unwilling to smite the shepherd and must needs be awakened by divine intervention.

the term for "man" actually means "valiant man"

the idea of "fellow" or "one standing beside me" seems to indicate someone of a similar substance, station and function as the one speaking i.e YHWH

verse8and9
In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
it seems interesting to me how during the war in heaven 1/3 fell and 2/3 progressed whereas this now seems reversed here.

i feel somewhat impressed that this whole idea of divisions of three among the people has to do with the allotment of the firstborn as mandated in the Law,

deuteronomy 21
but he shall acknowledge the firstborn, the son of the unloved, by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the firstfruits of his strength. The right of the firstborn is his.

in abraham 3 it says god chose the first, the second became angry, and drew a 1/3 part away.

6.6/10, 66/100, 666/1000 all potentially signify 2/3s, a firstborn's portion i guess. firstborn of whom? and in what context? in the telestial sphere, or the terrestrial world perhaps? maybe given the overall context perhaps the latter is more likely. and not to mention the scripture describes the refinement of the 1/3 that the lord saves as being like silver.

Image

i need to research more into the significance of "silver" in the scriptures. joseph's cup is silver, jesus is sold for pieces of silver, etc. its hard for me to say much on that now, since without looking into it further first, im a bit thrown for a loop regarding how the scriptures often couple gold & silver as though they are at least in the same class as one another, and in other places seems to purposely differentiate between the two

Thus far, Gold was the first Flying Color, and Silver the last.
Shall we conclude that no more flying colors shall be revealed?

Green and yellow , but not make blue. :mrgreen: :geek:

emil_cooper_73
captain of 10
Posts: 42

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by emil_cooper_73 »

I enjoyed reading. All are inspiring and that's what we need now.

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

editing / finishing post as i go

i think theres a great deal of interesting ideas and synchronicities presented here by the creator of the video (hes a bit of a goofball imo) though i am skeptical and never in full agreement w/ most of the conclusions he comes to and opinions he gives. he also has a few other interesting and thought-provoking videos of varying usefulness, which i may draw from further down the line as i sort my thoughts out. you gotta take care & patience to filter out his stuff thats nonsense, though at least he well-understands the universal application to the human body and the anatomy thereof, the veritable temple of god, and the seat of our endowment from on high

(starts at 1:30)
so the overarching theme is ascension, by strict means of the atonement of course - i will not pick from the devil's tree of life.

basically, the entire purpose and theme of the endowment: overcoming the fall through jesus, and being permitted to re-enter god's presence

when he talks about the "hand bags" of those partaking of the fruit - i dont think thats for harvesting it as this guy speculates. these mysterious handbags are all over similar sumero-babylonian-akkadian depictions and portrayals.

i think they represent all those hidden and special things we as endowed members receive in the temple ceremony wherewith we may pass through the veil and the angels standing as sentinels

many depictions of two figures or pillars standing to either side, which seems again to jive with aspects in the revealed gospel. the intertwining of these mesopotamian cultures and mythoi is a very interesting, and also a rather tricky thing. i think a healthy portion of the spirit of prophecy and discernment as well as scriptural-groundedness are needed, to effectively separate from the synchronous truths and the crucial differences. just like i touched on in another post earlier on this page, while genesis might be incredibly, totally similar to mesopotamian creation, noahic, and postdiluvian myths - in a lot of instances its because of direct inversions. i believe moses who taught of an intimate personal god council who governed their creation in love and truth - not the babylonians,
who asserted such gods had only formed humans to lay tasks on them and glut upon the fruits of said labour.

he points out the connection with the twelve apostles, who surround the singular One - kind of reminds me of imagery used concerning lehi's heavenly vision in 1 nephi 1.

the apostles not only have a distinct connection with jesus, the one who commissions and sends them - but seemingly with adam as well. in the new testament he calls and sends them firstly to the "lost sheep of israel", and post-resurrection and glorification he sends them to "all nations".

i dont know for certain of adam is the holy ghost and is to incarnate in the last days (ive always wondered concerning the fresh veil over his & eve's minds in the video - after they are exiled from the gardentemple, as well as after the cutscene of lucifer proclaiming the "day of [his] power") - but if he does, wouldnt it be funny how in the endowment the apostles are sent to adam & eve to empower them and restore them to god's holy presence, and how in the new testament / book of mormon, it is the holy ghost specially given and sent to the apostles? anyway, carrying on,

rev 2:7
To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.


Image

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i yet maintain the reality of occultic connections between the "lady of the dawn" referenced in psalm 110 with the tree of life, with the fountainhead of living waters proceeding therefrom, with the morning star venus herself, etc.

rev 2:11
The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.


Image

Image

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im no expert on the second death nor would i particularly like to become one

what little revelation and vision ive received on the subject (recently) shook me to my core, i remember i couldnt eat or sleep for like a full 36 hours. what an awful thing - for the veil to be removed & the flesh to be restored, yet while the righteous follower feels within him a bright & redeemed spirit overflowing with joy & peace, those who have lost their savour awaken unto death, remembering all their primeval premortal childhood, becoming fully aware of all which was offered them through jesus, and realising to the fetishistic glee of the one who deceived them that they have verily exchanged their spiritual and eternal birthright for so much worse a reward than a mess of pottage. how satan longs to draw souls away, that after its too late he may sadistically reveal before them as he did to judas that "we all get exactly what we
deserve", and such have no one to blame, not god, nor the devil, but only his own rebellious and now-forever-dead self.

what a thing to be snatched and redeemed from. i believe what we sow here in our imperfection is returned to us in zenzizenzic portion, the good & the bad, both to be exponentially magnified and propagated into the infinite, the righteous one inheritance the joy of lord jesus and eternal lives, the wicked one endlessly shrinking and sinking further into himself, smaller & smaller, for eternity, dying forever

rev 2:17
To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.


Image

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d&c 130
Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;
And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

a lot can be inferred regarding god's designs for his covenant chosen simply by being cognizant of and attentive to the doings and apparent agenda of the adversary.

one example off the top of my head - digital technology. i suspect a key pillar in satan's endtime goals / plans is to establish something of a digital technocracy, a perverted & skewed image of the terrestrial rest the earth awaits for, seeking to seek to obtain and consolidate a universally dominant, terrestrial-sphere new world order. where tech is concerned, you get people like david icke and alex jones talking about "interdimensional beings" waging a "spiritual war" against we humans "because we have free will", and how tech plays a role here. perhaps instead of a healthy spiritual world which the earth will end up as, our enemies would much prefer a totalitarian digital world. step one: get people addicted to handhelds, step two get people to acclimate to wearables and endgame is to get the technology inside the body. combined with the inevitable advent of AI and quantum computing, and you have a living nightmare.

what does all this have to do w/ the ascension? its all a mimicry. white stone > black scrying mirror. i would much prefer a urim and thummim to learn things of higher orders than some quantum digital implant, connecting me with alien god.

and what the heck is up w/ fig7 from that facsimile

Image
"Represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood; as, also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham, in the form of a dove."

i mean, endowed members know what theyre seeing here. i find it interesting how in the ceremony as it currently operates, the first two names are given, whereas the third (terrestrial) and the fourth (celestial) are mere placeholders. who will receive for themselves the third name? what are the blessings / favours as well as the conditions / responsibilities of receiving this stone, this hidden manna?

and any anatomic correlation? perhaps this white stone and this hidden manna arent external things but within the temple of the body? if the body is the temple, then what is the holy place, and the most holy place? what are the inner and outer courts? and how does the outside of the entire temple precinct align exactly, the equivalent of the "lone and dreary world" we now live in?

rev 2:26-27
The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations,
and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.
And I will give him the morning star.


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isaiah 49
he says: 'I have labored in vain; I have spent my strength for nothing and vanity; yet surely my right is with the LORD, and my recompense with my God.'
and now the LORD says... 'It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.'

rev 3:5
The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


the temple & endowment references seem to appear abundantly throughout

"i will never blot his name", the greek phrasing of the negative is the most forceful and strongest form.

i think the book of life more or less has to do with those who become sons & daughters of jesus, and who, through his redemption, have secured an inheritance in that new world to come, detailed in the final chapter of revelation wherein christ reigns sovereign as the eternal patriarchal ruler thereof

daniel 12
At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book

D&c 85:3-9
It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.
Neither is their genealogy to be kept, or to be had where it may be found on any of the records or history of the church.
Their names shall not be found, neither the names of the fathers, nor the names of the children written in the book of the law of God, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things, and often times it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest, saying:
And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;
While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.
And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.

moses 6
And a book of remembrance was kept, in the which was recorded, in the language of Adam, for it was given unto as many as called upon God to write by the spirit of inspiration
And by them their children were taught to read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled.
Now this same Priesthood, which was in the beginning, shall be in the end of the world also.
Now this prophecy Adam spake, as he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost, and a genealogy was kept of the children of God. And this was the book of the generations of Adam

i think all these are connected and have a crucial endtime significance, in terms of sealing up the ultimate verdict of the lord in all things before the destruction & regeneration come.

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rev 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.


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rev 3:21
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.


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avraham gileadi:
False and failed attempts to ascend to heaven, from the Tower of Babel to the endtime Antichrist, also don’t refute true ascent. Humanity’s collective memory has kept this hope alive in the cultures of Israel, Egypt, Greece, Arabia, and the Orient. Europe in the Middle Ages saw a preoccupation with the Holy Grail. The earliest threads of that tradition identify the Grail with an open vision of God. The Grail Castle, in which that event occurred, was considered a microcosm of the universe, with ministering angels ascending and descending (see Figure 109). The castle’s seven chambers, as in a temple, led in an ascending order to the center, where the candidate gained his transcendent experience. These traditions all speak of the purity, faith, and courage of the initiate. In his quest for the Grail, he defended the cause of the poor, fought off evil opponents, rescued damsels in distress whose virtue was threatened, and lived a life committed to doing good without expecting reward. The true knight was a savior of his people, who restored righteous kingship and reestablished Paradise on the earth. He had access to the Tree of Life and the Fountain of Living Waters in the inmost chamber of the castle. He and his wife were a part of the "Grail family", an elect group identified with the original Knights of the Round Table. Pilgrimages to the Grail Mountain expressed people’s desire to reach the same. In the light of Isaiah’s theology, the grail cup commemorates the suffering Savior, who pays the price of justice for those who repent of their sins. He drinks the cup of the wrath of God in their stead, paying with his blood to secure their “salvation” (see Chapter 8). For all who act as proxy saviors, drinking from this cup follows the pattern of Israel’s God. It is an integral part of their descent before ascent, called by Jesus a "new baptism". (Matthew 20: 22–23.) Those who thus serve God by serving others are reborn on the highest levels of the ladder, receiving God’s promise of immortality and eternal life. Those who become seraphs may, like Enoch and Elijah, assume immortality even on earth. Out of the grail tradition emerged the “nobility,” a social class whose role was to bless the lives of those less blessed than themselves. By providing lower classes with gainful employment and protecting their interests, feudal lords had the opportunity of being saviors of their people. Allegiance to “his majesty” the king was virtually equivalent with allegiance to God, as people trusted in their God (emperor) and king (vassal) to preserve the peace and administer the affairs of the kingdom. Even such a recent, though often exploited, social structure was a type of ascending levels. The fairytale lives of royal families foreshadowed the prospect God holds out to his elect people who live in the Millennium. Biblical accounts of those who reached seraph status, such as Enoch, Elijah, Isaiah, and John, reveal little of their internal struggles or personal wrestles they had along the way. If we fail today to reach the seraph level after devoting our lives to God, it means we have strayed from his path to exaltation, though our lives may be exemplary in other respects. The inability of modern “saints” to repeat the acts of the ancients is a sign that we, in spite of far greater numbers, have fallen far behind. God’s response to this is to raise up his servant, who endows with power all who heed God’s call to repent. Consequently, at the time Jehovah descends to the earth there will be many who will ascend to heaven. (Isaiah Decoded: Ascending the Ladder to Heaven)

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

post-Babel scattering worldview?

Post by abijah` »

still trying to form in my mind what the ancient israelite worldview was, somethin extending to and past abram to the tower in shinar, regarding the heavenly council, the pantheon of various deities, the role and supremacy of god yhwh and all their relationships with mankind and the distinguished nations.

genesis 6
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,
the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

genesis 10
To Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided

abraham 1
And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father’s house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;
And this because they have turned their hearts away from me, to worship the god of Elkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt; therefore I have come down to visit them, and to destroy him who hath lifted up his hand against thee, Abraham, my son, to take away thy life.
Behold, I will lead thee by my hand, and I will take thee, to put upon thee my name, even the Priesthood of thy father, and my power shall be over thee.
As it was with Noah so shall it be with thee; but through thy ministry my name shall be known in the earth forever, for I am thy God.

deuteronomy 32
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
But the LORD’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

the old testament reads almost more like a henotheistic worldview, of real and competing various patron deities over various peoples / nations

maybe god got sick of mankind rejecting him at the sin of the tower of babel, so he assigned the various peoples / languages with the various "sons of god"? moses seemed to think so 🤔

and by "sons of god", does this refer to those beings who left their heavenly estate because of lust for worldly things and begat the heroes revered of the pagan ancient mesopotamians (abram's culture) and are now locked in tartarus?

perhaps this explains the recurring conflict between old testament yhwh and the various deities of surrounding nations, like moloch chemosh ashtoreth dagon baal etc etc

eventually yhwh wins i suppose, in jesus who upon his resurrection obtains all power in heaven and earth, and the manchild who implements that

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

melchizedek & proclaiming the day of jubilee

Post by abijah` »

jubilee

isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound
to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn
leviticus 25
In this year of jubilee each of you shall return to his property.
And if you make a sale to your neighbor or buy from your neighbor, you shall not wrong one another.
You shall pay your neighbor according to the number of years after the jubilee, and he shall sell to you according to the number of years for crops.
If the years are many, you shall increase the price, and if the years are few, you shall reduce the price, for it is the number of the crops that he is selling to you.
You shall not wrong one another, but you shall fear your God, for I am the LORD your God.

deuteronomy 15
every creditor shall release what he has lent to his neighbor. He shall not exact it of his neighbor, his brother, because the LORD’s release has been proclaimed.
Of a foreigner you may exact it, but whatever of yours is with your brother your hand shall release.
But there will be no poor among you; for the LORD will bless you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance to possess—

melchizedek

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summary of scroll 11Q13
This first century BCE work is composed of thirteen small fragments from Qumran Cave 11. It takes the form of an eschatological midrash, or interpretation, on parts of Isaiah. It sees Isaiah's proclamation of liberty to the captives at the end of days (Isa 61:1) as part of a general “year of jubilee” (shenat ha-yovel).

In the Torah, every seventh year was a sabbath year (Lev 25:3-4), in which the land was given rest from being planted or pruned. There was also a jubilee year, actually the 50th year following a succession of seven sabbatical years (7x7), in which all property was restored to its original owner and all debts were cancelled (Lev 25:13; Deut 15:2). All Hebrew slaves were also to be set free.

The Jubilee or Yovel began on the Day of Atonement and was announced by the blowing of trumpets throughout the land. Yovel was thus a marvelous picture of ultimate redemption and freedom from every bondage.

The author of 11QMelch says the agent of the future Jubilee salvation will be a heavenly deliverer, Melchizedek. In this scroll, he is an exalted divine being, to whom are applied biblical titles generally reserved for God alone: El and Elohim (both of which are also applied to angelic or divine beings in Scripture).

In 11QMelch the mysterious king-priest of Shalem stands in the place of God in the final judgment.
In the author’s citation of Isaiah 61:2 (which speaks of “the year of the YHVH’s favor”) the name Melchizedek is substituted for YHVH, the name of Israel’s God. In addition, Melchizedek is said to atone for the sins of the righteous and to execute judgment upon the wicked — actions usually associated with God himself. The author also quotes Psalm 82:1 (“Elohim stands in the council of El”) but inserts “Melchizedek” in place of “Elohim” (God).

It is clear this Melchizedek isn’t merely human. Just how divine he is, how close he is to God himself, is ambiguous. Other Jewish works of this era reflect a common belief that Someone operated in close proximity to God and shared his authority and even name, though he was not fully God himself.

Melchizedek (whose name means “king of righteousness” or “righteous king”) also presides over the final judgment and condemnation of his demonic counterpart: Belial, Satan, the Prince of Darkness. In other documents from Qumran this being is called “Melchiresha.” Melchi-resha (“king of wickedness/wicked king”) darkly mirrors Melchi-zedek.
11Q13 further source -
The biblical jubilee year was the fiftieth year,the year following the succession of seven sabbatical years.

Whereas a sabbatical year was one in which the land had to lie fallow and rest (analogous to the Sabbath at the end of the week), in the jubilee year all land that had been alienated from its original owners was supposed to return to them.

All Hebrew slaves were to be set free.

The jubilee year began on the Day of Atonement and was singaled by the bolwing of trumpets throughout the land and the proclamation of universal liberty.

The author of the present intriguing melange of biblical citations has selected many of the Bible's verses that relate to the jubilee year and created a work in which those portions receive their "true" interpretaion--one by no means obvious to caual reders of the Bible.

He understands the jubilee-year remission of debts as referring not merely to prosaic matters of money, but to the forgiveness of sin.


The author declares that the agent of this salvation is to be none other than Melchizedek, a mysterious figure referenced only twice in the Bible,in Genesis 14 and Psalm 110.

For our author, Melchizedek is an enormously exalted divine being to whom are applied names generally reserved for God alone : the Hebrew names el and elohim.

In the author's citation of Isaiah 61:2, which spiaks of "the year of the LORD's favor."

Melchizedek is substituted even for this most holy name of Israel's God.

Yet more remarkably, Melchizedek is said to atone for the sins of the righteous and to execute judgment upon the wicked--actions usually associated with God himself.

By the power of Melchizedek, dominion on earth shall pass from Satan (here called Belial) to the righteous Sons of Light.

This latter group constitutes those who are predestined to belong to the party of Melchizedek, "the congregation of the sons of righteousness."

These people heed the message of a second figure described in this writing as "the messenger."

The messenger, also designated "Anointed of the Sprit"(Hebrew messiah), is conceived of as coming with a message from God, message explicating the course of history (that is, a declaration of when the End shall come) and teaching about God's truths.

This figure dies, an event that may correspond somehow with the text's references to "jubilee periods."

In many of the scrolls, jubilee periods are not only times of liberation as described in the Bible, but also ways of keeping track of time.

The present text apparently envisions a scheme in which the coming of the Last Days is calculated by means of these jubilee periods.

Much about this remarkable text remains myterious, and considerable further research will be needed to achieve a tuer understandings of its ideas.

The fugure of Melchizedek as portrayed here is strikingly reminiscent of the New Testament reference to a heavenly figure of that name, a high priest described as follows : "without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever"(Heb.7.3)

Clearly Melchizedek was a focus of powerful salvific imagery among various jewish groups in the period of the scrolls.

The figure of Melchizedek, the heavenly savior of those predestined to belong to him.
column 2 -
concerning what Scripture says, "In this year of jubilee", and what is also written, "And this is the manner of the remission", and concerning the captives the interpretation is that it applies the Last Days and whose teachers have been hidden and kept secret, even from the inheritance of Melchizedek... and they are the inheritance of Melchizedek, who will return them to what is rightfully theirs.

He will proclaim to them the jubilee, thereby releasing them from the debt of all their sins.

This word will thus come in the first week of the jubilee period that follows nine jubilee periods.

Then the Day of Atonement shall follow at the end of the tenth jubilee period, when he shall atone for all the Sons of Light and the people who are predestined to Melchizedek.

For this is the time decreed for "the Year of Melchizedek`s favor", and for his hosts, together with the holy ones of God, for a kingdom of judgment, just as it is written concerning him in the Songs of David, a godlike being has taken his place in the council of God; in the midst of divine beings he holds judgement.

Scripture also says about him, "Over it take your seat in the highest heaven; A divine being will judge the peoples".

Concerning what scripture says "How long will you judge unjustly, and show partiality to the wicked?" The interpretation applies to Belial and the spirits predestined to him, because all of them have rebelled, turning from God`s precepts and so becoming utterly wicked.

Therefore Melchizedek will thoroughly prosecute the vengenance required by God`s statutes.

Also, he will deliver all the captives from the power of Belial, and from the power of all the spirits destined to him. Allied with him will be all the "righteous divine beings"

The figure of the messenger, an Anointed One who comes with a message from God but is "cut off."

The visitation is the Day of Salvation that He has decreed ... through Isaiah the prophet concerning all the captives, inasmuch as Scripture says, "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace, who brings good news, who announces salvation, who says to Zion 'Your God reigns'."

This scriptures interpretation : 'the mountains' are the prophets, they who were sent to proclaim God`s truth and to prophesy to all Israel.

And "The messengers" is the Anointed of the spirit of whom Daniel spoke, "After the sixty-two weeks, an Anointed shall be cut off". The "messenger who brings good news, who announces salvation" is the one of whom it is written, "to proclaim the year of the LORD`s favour, the day of the vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn"; This scripture`s interpretation: he is to instruct them about all the periods of history for eternity and in the statutes of the truth. Dominion that passes from Belial and returns to the Sons of Light by the judgment of God, just as it is written concerning him who says to Zion 'Your God reigns' is the leader of the congregation of all the sons of righteousness, who uphold the covenant and turn from walking in the way of the people.

Your divine being is Melchizedek, who will deliver them from the power of Belial.

Concerning what scripture says, "Then you shall have the trumpet sounded loud in all the land..."
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psalm 110
The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”

"Chief Angelic Priest?" -

In the mystical Qumran documents known as “Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice” (originally called “The Angelic Liturgy”), Melchizedek appears to be a superior angel. The texts are broken up too badly to be sure of this identification (4Q401 11:3; 22:3).

But what is certain is that the “Songs” depict a hierarchy of angelic priests who serve in the heavenly temple. They are surrounded by other divine beings known as elim or elohim (gods, divine beings) or holy ones, spirits, princes, and ministers. And Melchizedek seems to be a leader of this assembly of servants.

In the so-called “War Scroll” (1QM 13:10; 16:6-8; 17:7), Melchizedek appears to be the archangel Michael, who is “the prince of light” (1QM 13:10-11; cf. 1QS 2:20-22; CD 5:17-19) and “the angel of [God's] truth” (1QS 3:24). Scrolls scholar Carol Newsom says, “it would seem most plausible that Melchizedek is to be identified with the seventh and highest of the chief princes, as Michael is customarily identified with the highest of the archangels."

Melchizedek is mentioned only twice in the Hebrew Bible: Genesis 14:18-20 and Psalm 110:4. He lived during the time of Abraham and presided as king over the city of Shalem (Greek, Salem; later known as Yerushalem or Yerushalayim — Jerusalem).

He was also a “priest of God Most High” (kohen l'el elyon) (or “ priest to the Most High God”; Gen 14:18-20). “God Most High” is a synonym for the God of Israel, whose personal name is YHVH (Ps 7:17; 21:7; 46:4). Thus, Melchizedek, king-priest of Shalem, believed in and served the God of Abraham, prior to the patriarch’s arrival in the promised land.

But there is nothing in the biblical text to suggest that Melchizedek is more than human.

In Psalm 110 the “Lord” (Heb, Adon) who shares God’s throne (v. 1) is also a priest. He’s not from the tribe of Levi (the tribe of priests), but operates “according to the order [al divrati] of Melchizedek” (v. 4). He’s in a special category, under divine appointment.

The Judean kings in Jerusalem who sat on the throne of David represented a more ancient order of reality. This is why Yeshua, a grandson of David, applied Psalm 110 to himself.

In later rabbinic tradition, Melchizedek receives little attention, perhaps because of the discussions of him in the New Testament and the speculations about him in Second Temple era Jewish documents, such as 11QMelch or 2 Enoch (esp. chaps. A71-72).

One time in the Babylonian Talmud, he is pictured as the judge of the last days (Sukkah 52b). But in other places, it is Abraham not Melchizedek who is “the priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” (Ps 110:4; cf. Sanhedrin 108b: “The Holy One, blessed be He, took Abraham and placed him at His right hand.”).

The Palestinian Targum (Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziel) on Genesis 14:18 says Melchizedek was “Shem the son of Noah, the king of Yerushalem.” Whether this means he was a reincarnation of Shem or the original Shem resurrected is unclear (the length of his given life would overlap that of Abraham). But the Shem/Melchizedek identification is common (BT Nedarim 32b; Pirkei Rabbi Eliezer 8 and 27, 3; Midrash Numbers Rabbah 4, 8).

Even Martin Luther preferred the “Shem” identification. The New Testament, however, does not support this idea.

---

Marianne Meyer Thompson, The God of the Gospel of John -Image

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

been reading this book, The God of the Gospel of John by a marianne thompson, the past couple days.

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john has long been my personal favourite of the gospels. i feel like there were always factors which make it special and unique and i feel this book does an excellent job in touching on those. i think john was very eschatologically minded, on account of the revelations & promises he received, therefore i find his writings & testimony to be of particular relevance for today in the last days.

its not an LDS author, its written from a traditionalist christian viewpoint to a traditionalist christian audience, but i think a lot of the salient points made throughout become even richer when revitalised with the restored truths we as member of christ's church enjoy

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

the Johannine Paraclete

Post by abijah` »

the Johannine Paraclete

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marianne thompson (w/ my own emphasis added)

On the other hand, the Spirit has also been conceived of as a 'personal divine being distinct from and in some degree independent of God'. For example Steven Smalley asserts that the "Spirit-Paraclete in John's gospel is understood as personal, indeed, as a person." A substantial impetus for such an understanding of the Spirit has been provided by analysis of various figures proposed as patterns for the portrayal of the Johannine Paraclete, including particularly prophetic figures, such as Elijah and Elisha and angelic figures such as the archangel Michael or the interpreting angel of apocalyptic. On this mode the Spirit-Paraclete can be conceived of something like an angel, a quasi-independent figure summoned by God to carry out particular divine purposes or to complete a certain mission in the world.

Most intriguing is the way in which these two different ways of conceiving the role and identity of the Spirit find their support in different portions of the gospel. The terms 'Paraclete', 'Spirit of Truth' and 'Holy Spirit' appear almost exclusively in the "Farewell Discourses" (chapters 14-17). In the narrative portions of the gospel (chapters 1-12, 18-21) only the simple 'Spirit' appears. Moreover, the differences in terminology correspond to differences in the primary functions allotted to the 'spirit' and the Paraclete. as W.G. Kümmel comments, 'the effects of the Spirit and of the Paraclete are altogether described as the same. On the one hand, to be "born of water and of the spirit" and the "Spirit", as the source of Life in the believer, and on the other hand teaching, recalling, testifying and convicting as the functions of the Paraclete.' Thus in the narrative portions of the gospel, Jesus is said to be the one who will baptize 'with' or 'by' the Holy Spirit, where the Spirit, described an analogy with 'water' is conceived of as a substance poured out upon believers. One must be 'born of the Spirit', equivalent to being born 'from above', through the activity of God. God brings life through the power of the Spirit, a thought certainly in keeping with the biblical tradition of the 'life-giving Spirit', such as Ezekiel's prophecy of the 'dry bones' brought to life by the Spirit, and the Johannine conception of the Spirit as a life-giving force. These and other passages in John have suggested that the Holy Spirit is God's Power, particularly manifested as God's life-giving Power.

The passages that provide the strongest evidence for conceiving of the Spirit as a distinct figure, an independent agent or actor, are all found on the 'Farewell Discourses' (chapters 14-17). What is peculiar to this group of passages (14:16-17, 26; 15:26; 16:7, 13) is not only their location in those discourses, but that here and here alone, is the 'Spirit' called the 'Paraclete'. The functions attributed to the Paraclete differ markedly from those attributed to the Spirit elsewhere in John. The dominant description of the Spirit-Paraclete is a teacher and guide who will be with believers. Thus, the Spirit teaches, testifies on Jesus' behalf, accuses or convicts the world, and speaks of, declares and glorifies Jesus. The Spirit is also described of as ' another paraclete', who in some way can be set alongside Jesus. Moreover the Spirit is 'sent by God', language that calls to the mind the sending of prophets and of course Jesus himself. The Spirit 'comes from' God. The Spirit can be 'received' or 'welcomed', as Jesus was received; believers are said to 'know' and most particularly, to 'see' the Spirit.

All in all, the descriptions of the Spirit and the Spirit's activities in the Farewell Discourses comport well with the picture of the Spirit as a distinct figure who is sent, like the prophets or angels, to human beings as a divine messenger, and so who can be said to 'come' in the name of the Lord, and to be welcomed or rejected by them. The Spirit is not so much the agency or manifestation of God's presence, but God's present Agent. Hence, God would not be present as the Spirit, but perhaps in, and even with the Spirit, in much the same way that God is present in a prophet or angelic minister.

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

the Johannine Paraclete (continued)

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marianne thompson (emphasis and links added) -

Almost all the antecedents proposed for the Johannine Paraclete provide evidence for seeing the Johannine Paraclete as cast in the second mold, that of a quasi independent figure sent by God on a particular mission or embassy in the world. Günther Bornkamm, Raymond Brown, and others have suggested that the relationship between Jesus and the Paraclete can be derived from pairs of successor figures, such as Moses & Joshua, and Elijah & Elisha, a suggestion that takes seriously the Johannine theme that the Paraclete comes only after Jesus departs. Raymond Brown writes that the Spirit is "the presence of Jesus when Jesus is absent." Earlier Sigmund Mowinckel and others suggested that prophetic and angelic intercessor figures in the OT and Judaism provide the conceptual background for the Johannine Paraclete.

Otto Betz ingeniously argued that the figure of the Paraclete weaves together strands from personal figures (Michael), various powers (such as "the spirit of Truth" of Qumran) and the metaphorical application of the term "paraclete", in the sense of "advocate", to good works, religious piety, and repentance, such as found in rabbinic writings.

In particular, the figure of Michael at Qumran explains why there are so many personal traits attached to the Johannine figure of the Paraclete. It was the archangel Michael who sat for the portrait. By conflating "Michael" with the impersonal "Spirit of Truth", John constructed the Paraclete figure.

In Understanding the Fourth Gospel, John Ashton argues that the Paraclete is portrayed as an interpreting angel. In apocalyptic texts, when the seer ascends to heaven, the angel who stands in close proximity to God usually appears to help in the unfolding of the divine secrets to the seer and guides him on his heavenly journey. There is something of a parallel here to the Paraclete's function to teach the Johannine community "what is to come" and to show them "all things". Whereas evil angels manifest their disobedience by exposing heavenly mysteries without God's permission, Jesus and the Spirit not only have the permission, but even the command, to make known what has been shown them. And just as the Paraclete is assigned a judging function, so in 11Q13 Melchizedek is the "elohim" who sits in righteous judgement over other angelic beings.

Gary Burge argues that "the single most important feature of the Johannine Paraclete is its christogical concentration. Christ is the template within the Fourth Evangelist's thinking that has given shape and meaning to the Spirit in the Farewell Discourses." Max Turner writes that the "Paraclete is Jesus' replacement and the substitute for his presence... the Spirit comes to replace Jesus and mediate his Presence."

M.E. Boring noted how well the description of the Paraclete's functions corresponded to those of the ideal Christian prophet, and he argued that the depictions of both Jesus and the Paraclete had been modeled to some extent after the prophets of the Johannine community." These correspondences would serve to validate the role of the prophet for the later Christian community.

In his study The Spirit-Paraclete in the Gospel of John, George Johnson spoke of the Spirit as a "christlike power that is finally in the control of God", but he argues that John locates the activity of the Spirit entirely with the Church, remaining either unconcerned with or uninterested in the activity of the Spirit of God outside its confines.

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: the Johannine Paraclete

Post by abijah` »

abijah` wrote: April 25th, 2020, 12:20 pm the Johannine Paraclete

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marianne thompson (w/ my own emphasis added)

On the other hand, the Spirit has also been conceived of as a 'personal divine being distinct from and in some degree independent of God'. For example Steven Smalley asserts that the "Spirit-Paraclete in John's gospel is understood as personal, indeed, as a person." A substantial impetus for such an understanding of the Spirit has been provided by analysis of various figures proposed as patterns for the portrayal of the Johannine Paraclete, including particularly prophetic figures, such as Elijah and Elisha and angelic figures such as the archangel Michael or the interpreting angel of apocalyptic. On this mode the Spirit-Paraclete can be conceived of something like an angel, a quasi-independent figure summoned by God to carry out particular divine purposes or to complete a certain mission in the world.

Most intriguing is the way in which these two different ways of conceiving the role and identity of the Spirit find their support in different portions of the gospel. The terms 'Paraclete', 'Spirit of Truth' and 'Holy Spirit' appear almost exclusively in the "Farewell Discourses" (chapters 14-17). In the narrative portions of the gospel (chapters 1-12, 18-21) only the simple 'Spirit' appears. Moreover, the differences in terminology correspond to differences in the primary functions allotted to the 'spirit' and the Paraclete. as W.G. Kümmel comments, 'the effects of the Spirit and of the Paraclete are altogether described as the same. On the one hand, to be "born of water and of the spirit" and the "Spirit", as the source of Life in the believer, and on the other hand teaching, recalling, testifying and convicting as the functions of the Paraclete.' Thus in the narrative portions of the gospel, Jesus is said to be the one who will baptize 'with' or 'by' the Holy Spirit, where the Spirit, described an analogy with 'water' is conceived of as a substance poured out upon believers. One must be 'born of the Spirit', equivalent to being born 'from above', through the activity of God. God brings life through the power of the Spirit, a thought certainly in keeping with the biblical tradition of the 'life-giving Spirit', such as Ezekiel's prophecy of the 'dry bones' brought to life by the Spirit, and the Johannine conception of the Spirit as a life-giving force. These and other passages in John have suggested that the Holy Spirit is God's Power, particularly manifested as God's life-giving Power.

The passages that provide the strongest evidence for conceiving of the Spirit as a distinct figure, an independent agent or actor, are all found on the 'Farewell Discourses' (chapters 14-17). What is peculiar to this group of passages (14:16-17, 26; 15:26; 16:7, 13) is not only their location in those discourses, but that here and here alone, is the 'Spirit' called the 'Paraclete'. The functions attributed to the Paraclete differ markedly from those attributed to the Spirit elsewhere in John. The dominant description of the Spirit-Paraclete is a teacher and guide who will be with believers. Thus, the Spirit teaches, testifies on Jesus' behalf, accuses or convicts the world, and speaks of, declares and glorifies Jesus. The Spirit is also described of as ' another paraclete', who in some way can be set alongside Jesus. Moreover the Spirit is 'sent by God', language that calls to the mind the sending of prophets and of course Jesus himself. The Spirit 'comes from' God. The Spirit can be 'received' or 'welcomed', as Jesus was received; believers are said to 'know' and most particularly, to 'see' the Spirit.

All in all, the descriptions of the Spirit and the Spirit's activities in the Farewell Discourses comport well with the picture of the Spirit as a distinct figure who is sent, like the prophets or angels, to human beings as a divine messenger, and so who can be said to 'come' in the name of the Lord, and to be welcomed or rejected by them. The Spirit is not so much the agency or manifestation of God's presence, but God's present Agent. Hence, God would not be present as the Spirit, but perhaps in, and even with the Spirit, in much the same way that God is present in a prophet or angelic minister.
abijah` wrote: May 12th, 2020, 5:57 pm revelation 12
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,
but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

looking back i think i was mistaken in my rhetoric in prior posts. perhaps rather than slaying the serpent, expelling the serpent from the garden would be more consistent with the narrative.

i do think the story of our mortality will indeed rhyme with that of our premortality

i do believe adam was a god in the world prior, but i dont think he is the father of spirits. i believe he is under jesus.

but it is clear from john's vision that it was michael who commanded the host that expelled lucifer. it was only after lucifer detected the veil over adam's mind that he tried to get him to eat the fruit. i think that adam, as the representative of God on the earth and the personal keeper of His Own Sanctuary there in eden was supposed to maintain what had already been established prior as per revelation 12.

it goes like this, lucifer dupes a third part of heaven in his rebellion up there, the opposing force = "michael and his angels", they win, on account of whatever the premortal counterpart of the atonement may be, described by john as "the blood of the lamb, and the word of their testimony" now here we have high-priest adam protecting, presiding over and working about in his garden temple eden to prove whether or not he will be obedient to whatsoever the Lord commands him

there is the heaven and then there is the earth. lucifer used to be an angel up there in heaven. then he rebelled, and the decree went forth that lucifer (and his angels) should be permanently exiled from the heaven.

he fell to earth.

eden is where earth and heaven overlap. it is a temple. i encourage you to look into the cosmic mountain-garden-temple symbology of the creation, the more you do i think the more you'll find the truth of these things, that eden is a temple, that adam was priest over it and how all this OT symbolism actually has more profound significance than what one ever wouldve expected

so lucifer falls to earth, and therefore when he enters eden, he is immediately a trespasser, because just like john says, there was place no longer found for him in the heaven. which naturally included eden, it being the juncture between the two.

adam shoulda kicked that snake right on outta there. he didnt belong there. he shouldnt have been permitted to slither about and beguile his wife. God keeps his temple sanctified and exclusive for a reason

try putting yourself in michaels shoes. you see your shining prodigious brother go down like a lead balloon because he was prideful in his exceeding wisdom, and then you get chosen to replace him as the "anointed cherub who covereth". what a frightful thing! youve just seen what happened to one who was so good as the son of the morning, only to become corrupted by power - if it were me, i would be petitioning for a veil. knowledge can save, and it can likewise damn. im open to the fall being some necessary thing, but only within the proper sphere / framework.

the two trees lay rooted in the "midst" of the garden. the holy of holies, the grand point of interface.

im not going to go on because it deserves a topic on its own, but as for sources for me to appeal to, i have loads and loads to draw upon in regard to this subject, the connection (and direct inversion) between mount horeb and the garden-mountain of eden, the tree of life and the briarthornbush-that-wasnt-consumed etc) but these ones are probably the most useful for a quick readthrough, to support my assertion
Last edited by abijah` on May 13th, 2020, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

abijah` wrote: April 25th, 2020, 1:26 pm the Johannine Paraclete (continued)

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marianne thompson (emphasis and links added) -

Almost all the antecedents proposed for the Johannine Paraclete provide evidence for seeing the Johannine Paraclete as cast in the second mold, that of a quasi independent figure sent by God on a particular mission or embassy in the world. Günther Bornkamm, Raymond Brown, and others have suggested that the relationship between Jesus and the Paraclete can be derived from pairs of successor figures, such as Moses & Joshua, and Elijah & Elisha, a suggestion that takes seriously the Johannine theme that the Paraclete comes only after Jesus departs. Raymond Brown writes that the Spirit is "the presence of Jesus when Jesus is absent." Earlier Sigmund Mowinckel and others suggested that prophetic and angelic intercessor figures in the OT and Judaism provide the conceptual background for the Johannine Paraclete.

Otto Betz ingeniously argued that the figure of the Paraclete weaves together strands from personal figures (Michael), various powers (such as "the spirit of Truth" of Qumran) and the metaphorical application of the term "paraclete", in the sense of "advocate", to good works, religious piety, and repentance, such as found in rabbinic writings.

In particular, the figure of Michael at Qumran explains why there are so many personal traits attached to the Johannine figure of the Paraclete. It was the archangel Michael who sat for the portrait. By conflating "Michael" with the impersonal "Spirit of Truth", John constructed the Paraclete figure.

In Understanding the Fourth Gospel, John Ashton argues that the Paraclete is portrayed as an interpreting angel. In apocalyptic texts, when the seer ascends to heaven, the angel who stands in close proximity to God usually appears to help in the unfolding of the divine secrets to the seer and guides him on his heavenly journey. There is something of a parallel here to the Paraclete's function to teach the Johannine community "what is to come" and to show them "all things". Whereas evil angels manifest their disobedience by exposing heavenly mysteries without God's permission, Jesus and the Spirit not only have the permission, but even the command, to make known what has been shown them. And just as the Paraclete is assigned a judging function, so in 11Q13 Melchizedek is the "elohim" who sits in righteous judgement over other angelic beings.

Gary Burge argues that "the single most important feature of the Johannine Paraclete is its christogical concentration. Christ is the template within the Fourth Evangelist's thinking that has given shape and meaning to the Spirit in the Farewell Discourses." Max Turner writes that the "Paraclete is Jesus' replacement and the substitute for his presence... the Spirit comes to replace Jesus and mediate his Presence."

M.E. Boring noted how well the description of the Paraclete's functions corresponded to those of the ideal Christian prophet, and he argued that the depictions of both Jesus and the Paraclete had been modeled to some extent after the prophets of the Johannine community." These correspondences would serve to validate the role of the prophet for the later Christian community.

In his study The Spirit-Paraclete in the Gospel of John, George Johnson spoke of the Spirit as a "christlike power that is finally in the control of God", but he argues that John locates the activity of the Spirit entirely with the Church, remaining either unconcerned with or uninterested in the activity of the Spirit of God outside its confines.
abijah` wrote: May 13th, 2020, 4:48 pm
i think there are levels and layers to this thing. i think there is a big cutoff point between the premortal michael, and the then-incarnate adam.

so level 1 - the veil is here, adam doesnt remember a thing. mentally put the premortality and the things pertaining to it off to the side for a moment:

in this lower level of understanding, i think adam didnt need to fall, and that the lawful proper course of action was to expel the serpent, and that accordingly, adam therefore failed his prescribed duty

now lets slide on back a little further and up a little higher to level 2, lets peel back the veil and remember michael and account for the affairs of the premortality

i would be willing to bet that if michael had been made without the veil, he would have done just fine kicking out his old, now even-weaker rival

im saying that the Fall didnt need to happen on level 1 of understanding - but perhaps michael, in counselling w/ eloheim & jehova they came to the conclusion for purposes that were clearly lost on the serpent, that adam should be placed in a state of ignorance specifically so that he would fail.

like i suspected in my last post, maybe michael wanted to stage things in such a way so that he wouldnt end up like lucifer. mere ability to overpower evil doesnt equate to salvation, you stare into the abyss and the abyss stares back, and perhaps the council didnt want michael to become very the evil he would destroy, so they came up with perhaps a seemingly more counterintuitive, yet ultimately wise plan, to stage adam to fail, in order that the greater victory would be secured.

lucifer may have been his father's favourite but i submit michael was always the mama's boy, and came to where he is a la jacob w/ mama rebekah -

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i believe adam was a god and is a god.

i reckon hes the one who's for the most part been operating as the Holy Spirit and is the Paraclete spoken of by jesus in johns testimony

anciently it seems to me the idea of ones "god" or "gods" was much more family-oriented and operating on a basis of descendancy

just wait till this one comes soon, and quickens the voices of our fathers and restores our teraphim, our household gods to us

hosea 3
For the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or pillar, without ephod or household gods.
Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king

many days without, but not forever. how blessed and happy we will be! how complete and whole at last, when our hearts and minds can be reconciled and drawn in one with our fathers "And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers"

i think that when we have our teraphim restored, and when the lower heavens start to recede before the eyes of our collective understanding, it will became pretty obvious concerning the identity of that holy spirit who has had jurisdiction of influence over every member of humanity since

one thing that happens to make adam unique among every individual ever: personally being tempted of the devil with that fruit while in a state of ignorance, and still refused him. no one else has been faced with and passed this trial of faith, and methinks unique trials of faith produce unique spheres of influence beyond the veil

ive said it before and i maintain, the fulness of times is all basically just summed up and condensed in the question "whos yo daddy?"
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in ancient egypt the priestess-mother was the kingmaker, Isis w/ horus forming the grand trope

doubtless michael's placement as lord in eden was the result of being his mother's favourite

"from the womb of the morning, you shall have dew of your youth"

abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

Re: random thoughts and musings

Post by abijah` »

im saying that the Fall didnt need to happen on level 1 of understanding - but perhaps michael, in counselling w/ eloheim & jehova they came to the conclusion for purposes that were clearly lost on the serpent, that adam should be placed in a state of ignorance specifically so that he would fail.

like i suspected in my last post, maybe michael wanted to stage things in such a way so that he wouldnt end up like lucifer. mere ability to overpower evil doesnt equate to salvation, you stare into the abyss and the abyss stares back, and perhaps the council didnt want michael to become very the evil he would destroy, so they came up with perhaps a seemingly more counterintuitive, yet ultimately wise plan, to stage adam to fail, in order that the greater victory would be secured.

lucifer may have been his father's favourite but i submit michael was always the mama's boy, and came to where he is a la jacob w/ mama rebekah
i believe adam was a god and is a god.

i reckon hes the one who's for the most part been operating as the Holy Spirit and is the Paraclete spoken of by jesus in johns testimony

anciently it seems to me the idea of ones "god" or "gods" was much more family-oriented and operating on a basis of descendancy

just wait till this one comes soon, and quickens the voices of our fathers and restores our teraphim, our household gods to us

hosea 3
For the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or pillar, without ephod or household gods.
Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king

many days without, but not forever. how blessed and happy we will be! how complete and whole at last, when our hearts and minds can be reconciled and drawn in one with our fathers "And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers"

i think that when we have our teraphim restored, and when the lower heavens start to recede before the eyes of our collective understanding, it will became pretty obvious concerning the identity of that holy spirit who has had jurisdiction of influence over every member of humanity since

one thing that happens to make adam unique among every individual ever: personally being tempted of the devil with that fruit while in a state of ignorance, and still refused him. no one else has been faced with and passed this trial of faith, and methinks unique trials of faith produce unique spheres of influence beyond the veil
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hosea 3
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim
Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the LORD and to his goodness in the latter days.

'teraphim' תְּרָפִים

Original Word: תְּרָפִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: teraphim
Phonetic Spelling: (ter-aw-feme')
Definition: (a kind of idol) perhaps household idol

'terah' תרח

Meaning:
Delay, Wanderer, Global Spirit

Etymology:
From an otherwise unused verb תרח (tarah), to delay, turn, wander.
From (1) the noun תר (tor), dove, and (2) the noun רוח (ruah), wind, breath or spirit.

תור
The verb תור (tur) means to explore or survey and associates with a broad, circular or sweeping motion. Noun תור (tor) or תר (tor) appears to describe a circular braid of hair. Noun יתור (yetur), seems to mean a searching or range. Noun תר (tor) or תור (tor) means dove or turtledove.

Note that likewise the Greek word for dove, namely περιστερα (peristera), appears to be derived from the prefix περι (peri) meaning around or about. This suggests that to the ancients the dove stood symbol for abundance and being all around and everywhere, which explains the bodily form of the Holy Spirit.

רוח
Verb רוח (rawah) means to be wide or spacious, or unrestrained and unconfined. Note that the Bible considers freedom the most precious commodity and ultimate objective of all humans. In fact, "it's for freedom that Christ has set us free" (Galatians 5:1). Noun רוח (rewah) means space, or respite or relief. Noun רוחה (rewaha) too means respite or relief.

Noun רוח (ruah) means both wind and spirit, and a spirit is an invisible but wholly natural force that moves independent living creatures in the same direction. Noun ריח (reah) means scent or fragrance. Denominative verb ריח (riah) means to detect or produce a scent or fragrance.

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abijah`
~dog days~
Posts: 3481

jesus's baptism and the creation

Post by abijah` »

Jesus' baptism and the grand archetype of Creation

genesis 1
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

matthew 3
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him

you get this same picture with jesus being baptised as you are presented with in the very first verses of the bible

you start out with the untamed waters (a symbol of chaos) on the face of an inordered world, until the spirit of god descends and alights upon the face of the waters - order from out of chaos

then you have this portrait of jesus, who descends down into the waters below (when he doesnt need to), only to rise up and the spirit of god descend and alight upon him. its almost as if jesus is becoming identified with, and subsequently overcoming the tohu`wabohu of the primordial deep

is it any coincidence the endowment presents michael as the holy spirit who follows a divine pattern to organise this world? after all, the scriptures themselves appear to identify adam with this selfsame spirit of creation, from that first day, even as the temple presentation does

genesis 1
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God (ruach`eloheim) was hovering over the face of the waters.

genesis 2
then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, (nishmat`hayya) and the man became a living creature.

what could all this mean i wonder? 😌

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