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True and, as far as we know, Isaac didn't actually die (there's a record somewhere that says he did, but that God brought him back to life. I know of no dead cov jag victims who were brought back to life). Hardly a mere inconvenience for many people!Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:03 amI don't know, there are thousands upon thousands who sacrificed their loved ones on the altar of "follow the prophet, he knows the way."
I meant for those who listened to the Spirit.Silver Pie wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 8:56 pmTrue and, as far as we know, Isaac didn't actually die (there's a record somewhere that says he did, but that God brought him back to life. I know of no dead cov jag victims who were brought back to life). Hardly a mere inconvenience for many people!Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:03 amI don't know, there are thousands upon thousands who sacrificed their loved ones on the altar of "follow the prophet, he knows the way."
We don’t live in a vacuum. Many of us who listened to the Spirit and rejected the covid vaxx have still suffered. We have friends and family who have serious side effects from “following the prophet”. Are we just supposed to say “whatever”? We ourselves were treated very poorly by those who we considered fellow saints in the church, and therefore we have lost our trust and felllowship with them. No small things.Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 9:08 pmI meant for those who listened to the Spirit.Silver Pie wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 8:56 pmTrue and, as far as we know, Isaac didn't actually die (there's a record somewhere that says he did, but that God brought him back to life. I know of no dead cov jag victims who were brought back to life). Hardly a mere inconvenience for many people!Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:03 am
I don't know, there are thousands upon thousands who sacrificed their loved ones on the altar of "follow the prophet, he knows the way."
My close relative died because he could not get proper care because of the lock downs.Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 9:30 pmWe don’t live in a vacuum. Many of us who listened to the Spirit and rejected the covid vaxx have still suffered. We have friends and family who have serious side effects from “following the prophet”. Are we just supposed to say “whatever”? We ourselves were treated very poorly by those who we considered fellow saints in the church, and therefore we have lost our trust and felllowship with them. No small things.Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 9:08 pmI meant for those who listened to the Spirit.Silver Pie wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 8:56 pm
True and, as far as we know, Isaac didn't actually die (there's a record somewhere that says he did, but that God brought him back to life. I know of no dead cov jag victims who were brought back to life). Hardly a mere inconvenience for many people!
Maybe you are a loner who doesn’t care how much your friends and family may be suffering, or you don’t care about being mistreated by those who should love and care for you, but most of us have tender hearts, instead of hearts of stone.
Don't hold your breath.Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 10:52 amNot yet. That's in the future.InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 10:51 amSo that means they publicly apologized and repented of their sin of telling members to get poisoned by gadiantons?
Define honest error.Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:41 amI am sorry for your suffering.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:23 am Respectfully, its been a few years and the ABUSE continues in Church for many. Obeone, I understand that you may not have been or feel abused. My daughter is going through a divorce from an abuser right now; I've learned a lot about abuse in the last three months. She did everything 'right', temple marriage, returned missionary, etc.....like many of us with regard to the Church.
For Infowarior82, RW, Fred, Chip, and many others...the source of their emotional anger, frustration, and 'not-an-honest-mistake' position is from the emotional and spiritual abuse they experienced from the Church. To the aforementioned jaded and abused, YOUR anger, positions, and feelings of doubt are very much justified and warranted!
Brother Obeone, I believe your not recognizing this is why you get overly attacked.
The Church's (narcissists?) leaders, for example, continue the emotional and spiritual abuse with gaslighting members with 'Follow the Prophet' talks, talks about not questioning leaders, and other such bullsh/&.
Stop the Abuse!
Might I suggest that all the above mentioned people do not lead with "the Church is apostate, and Q15 are devil worshipers?"
You might get a more receptive audience if you consider the possibility (which I know to be a fact), that the Q15 made an honest but deadly error, and that it is all a test to teach the Church to:
1) Follow the Spirit more than follow the prophet, because the Spirit outranks the prophet EVERY time, and
2) do not throw away the baby (the keys of the Kingdom of God on earth) together with bath water of "safe and effective" error.
How else can God disabuse the Church from about 100 years of prophet idol worship?
This had to be done to:
1) wake the Church up, and
2) to see who will deny the truth over an honest error of Q15.
Many on this forum fall into (#2). Pun intended.
Time to repent. We all need it.
The issue is that victimhood mentality inevitably leads to people projecting their abuse and doing to other people, what was done to them. This is how satanism spreads via trauma.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:23 am
Respectfully, its been a few years and the ABUSE continues in Church for many. Obeone, I understand that you may not have been or feel abused. My daughter is going through a divorce from an abuser right now; I've learned a lot about abuse in the last three months. She did everything 'right', temple marriage, returned missionary, etc.....like many of us with regard to the Church.
For Infowarior82, RW, Fred, Chip, and many others...the source of their emotional anger, frustration, and 'not-an-honest-mistake' position is from the emotional and spiritual abuse they experienced from the Church. To the aforementioned jaded and abused, YOUR anger, positions, and feelings of doubt are very much justified and warranted!
The same is true for people that think they are above this level. They also have their programming and team vs team play.creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 4:05 pm Just look at how many people complied in the first place with the fake pandemic. The propaganda is working on the majority of people. We're living in the Matrix. The majority of people are not awake, like NPCs going about their day, following their programming, rooting for their team (Left or Right).
Most of them simply believe what they are told, until their team decides they can believe something else, then they follow that narrative, and so on.
Ymarsakar wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 4:51 amThe issue is that victimhood mentality inevitably leads to people projecting their abuse and doing to other people, what was done to them. This is how satanism spreads via trauma.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:23 am
Respectfully, its been a few years and the ABUSE continues in Church for many. Obeone, I understand that you may not have been or feel abused. My daughter is going through a divorce from an abuser right now; I've learned a lot about abuse in the last three months. She did everything 'right', temple marriage, returned missionary, etc.....like many of us with regard to the Church.
For Infowarior82, RW, Fred, Chip, and many others...the source of their emotional anger, frustration, and 'not-an-honest-mistake' position is from the emotional and spiritual abuse they experienced from the Church. To the aforementioned jaded and abused, YOUR anger, positions, and feelings of doubt are very much justified and warranted!
Thus the hostility towards Tim Ballard, enmity/paranoia about others doing God's work. Tim Ballard did not do anything to them nor did Brigham Young, but they start torturing dead people, then progress on from there.
It's easy for me to detect, since I have seen it before. It is a very strong energy pattern. It is a kind of Revenge fantasy and self justification. They feel victimized by X, so they find something related to X (like Young) and attack it/torture it, then they begin deriving a sense of self satisfaction from it. This encourages them to continue further (down the satan spiral path) and they start looking for more important targets to focus on and criticize, such as Tim Ballard or GLenn Beck.
None of them were the ones they want revenge on, but they are associated to the ones they want revenge on. THus the victim becomes the victimizer. This is a perpetual cycle satan constructed for them.
If you wish to be a victim, then sure, your feelings are justified. But you cannot claim victimhood status when you begin using your power and misusing it the same way you feel Nelson misused it.
As Jordan Peterson noted in his podcast with Tim Ballard recently, the human mind reproduces traumatic experiences, as a way to attempt to understand/heal from the trauma. I see it as processing the information and leting it flow instead of it being blocked somewhere in the chakras. Thus the simplest way to create more satanists and Cains, is to create trauma in individuals and societies (Gulf of Tonkin, Wars). This inevitably sets a person's avatar body and soul on the path of perdition, hoping they will choose hell of their own free will.
Judgment is not done by me or god. Judgment is the logickal process of a soul/body choosing one path over another. 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023 are critical choice points in this novel's plot. Judgment is simply The Godhead and Divine Counsel assessing your actions, plus and minus, and adding them up to produce a sentence or aka judgment. Your own soul tends to judge you more harshly than any others.
As for Obeone, the best I can recommend is that he take ivermectin like Sub did. Because they share a similar issue. I don't know if Obeone took the mrna or other shots, but there is likely a high incidence of transfection from others that did. This needs to be purged in order for the spirit/soul to reconnect to the body. Otherwise, Obeone/Sub would act the same way, seeing nothing wrong with LDS decisions.
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 7:58 amYmarsakar wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 4:51 amThe issue is that victimhood mentality inevitably leads to people projecting their abuse and doing to other people, what was done to them. This is how satanism spreads via trauma.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:23 am
Respectfully, its been a few years and the ABUSE continues in Church for many. Obeone, I understand that you may not have been or feel abused. My daughter is going through a divorce from an abuser right now; I've learned a lot about abuse in the last three months. She did everything 'right', temple marriage, returned missionary, etc.....like many of us with regard to the Church.
For Infowarior82, RW, Fred, Chip, and many others...the source of their emotional anger, frustration, and 'not-an-honest-mistake' position is from the emotional and spiritual abuse they experienced from the Church. To the aforementioned jaded and abused, YOUR anger, positions, and feelings of doubt are very much justified and warranted!
Thus the hostility towards Tim Ballard, enmity/paranoia about others doing God's work. Tim Ballard did not do anything to them nor did Brigham Young, but they start torturing dead people, then progress on from there.
It's easy for me to detect, since I have seen it before. It is a very strong energy pattern. It is a kind of Revenge fantasy and self justification. They feel victimized by X, so they find something related to X (like Young) and attack it/torture it, then they begin deriving a sense of self satisfaction from it. This encourages them to continue further (down the satan spiral path) and they start looking for more important targets to focus on and criticize, such as Tim Ballard or GLenn Beck.
None of them were the ones they want revenge on, but they are associated to the ones they want revenge on. THus the victim becomes the victimizer. This is a perpetual cycle satan constructed for them.
If you wish to be a victim, then sure, your feelings are justified. But you cannot claim victimhood status when you begin using your power and misusing it the same way you feel Nelson misused it.
As Jordan Peterson noted in his podcast with Tim Ballard recently, the human mind reproduces traumatic experiences, as a way to attempt to understand/heal from the trauma. I see it as processing the information and leting it flow instead of it being blocked somewhere in the chakras. Thus the simplest way to create more satanists and Cains, is to create trauma in individuals and societies (Gulf of Tonkin, Wars). This inevitably sets a person's avatar body and soul on the path of perdition, hoping they will choose hell of their own free will.
Judgment is not done by me or god. Judgment is the logickal process of a soul/body choosing one path over another. 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023 are critical choice points in this novel's plot. Judgment is simply The Godhead and Divine Counsel assessing your actions, plus and minus, and adding them up to produce a sentence or aka judgment. Your own soul tends to judge you more harshly than any others.
As for Obeone, the best I can recommend is that he take ivermectin like Sub did. Because they share a similar issue. I don't know if Obeone took the mrna or other shots, but there is likely a high incidence of transfection from others that did. This needs to be purged in order for the spirit/soul to reconnect to the body. Otherwise, Obeone/Sub would act the same way, seeing nothing wrong with LDS decisions.
Thank you! I am not a therapist and this is, indeed, a deep rabbit hole. So, I'm only giving my current thoughts...and could be 'wrong' on any of this! ...nothing I can quote scripture on!
Yesterday was a big 'ah-ha' day for me...on my feelings about the Church and linking that to what I've learned about what my daughter's marriage abuse. With my daughter's current divorce, she didn't even know she was being emotionally abused, 'walking on eggshells', gaslighted, and being coercively controlled. She has now learned to set strong boundaries; she's empowered and feels 'free'; she is not playing the victim. The unfortunate result is, that for the time being, she has a strong distrust of men.
Honestly, all of us had different experiences with Covid and the Church. I may have assumed that everyone's negative positions on church were all a result of the church covid response. I still think many of us do. But, I will only discuss my Church covid experience (nightmare).
I personally experienced:
1. coercive-spiritual control
2. unrighteous dominion, psychological propaganda
3. alienation...we were black-sheep and ostracized
4. purposely Ignored by leaders with their unwillingness to even talk about covid; ignored emails
5. stared at by members and leaders like we had leprosy
6. gaslighted when we knew were following spirit, the science, and were very well informed
7. made fun of
8. constantly made to feel 'less than' and we were 'bad Mormons' for not 'Following the Prophet' with unending follow-the-prophet lessons and testimonies. It was just over the top.
9. looked down upon with leaders/members being holier-than-thou F-hypocrites wearing chin-diapers with their masks
10. Wife felt like she was walking on eggshells and everyone staring at 'us'
11. there was 'no love' from our ward at all, even last year
We were, actually, treated wrongly. Yes, I only just now recognize that I suffered emotional and spiritual abused and was the recipient of unrighteous dominion.. If any of you gaslight me and tell me I wasn't abused, I already know better. (Insert 4-letter words here.)
We didn't go to church for a year during covid. Items 1-11 happened after they restarted church meetings. That is when Bishop asked me to run the video for zoom broadcasts. I was one of the very first unmasked members back in church. (Bishop indicated he didn't care if I were masked.). But, boy was I stared at.
We had a lot of ward funerals that year; even middle-aged members. I tried and 'offered' to warn everyone; and now we've been proven 100% correct on Covid vaxx dangers. The entire Church covid-hoax response (vaxx, masks, closing church, etc) was 100% WRONG. More members/people will die. Sure glad I wasn't brainwashed in 'following the prophet'....over a cliff!
Now that the 'spiritually in-tune' have been proven right, my leaders, and the church in general, still refuse to 'talk about it' or admit any wrong-doing. No epic blunder here; Let's sweep the thing under the rug and totally ignore it. What kind of blind mass psychosis is still going on here? Do I want these people to lead me? ....no.
I admit, the whole experience does get me emotionally worked up. I do not believe I can start to heal from this abuse until I actually recognize I was abused. It's all starting to make sense. Right or wrong, all unknowingly, I now recognize my personal response has been to set strong boundaries and distance myself from my abusers:
-getting up and walking out of church over brainwashed lessons
-stopped watching general conference a few times
-avoiding situations where I would have to sustain anyone
-not going to stake conferences
-declaring that the church no longer had the moral authority to ask me the WoW question; that I was answerable only to God on that question.
-no longer trusting church leadership
-no longer allow my sons to be interviewed alone
-changed wards (only half of our new ward wore masks; the last Bishop was 'fired' for refusing to wear a mask).
-joining LDSFF for therapy!
I could have just not gone back to church, but I didn't. I have a very strong testimony of the Gospel, BoM, and JS. But, I'm not blind to the fact that there are a lot of very serious issues in the church. 'All is NOT well in Zion'.
-end rant, thank you for listening.
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 7:58 amYmarsakar wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 4:51 amThe issue is that victimhood mentality inevitably leads to people projecting their abuse and doing to other people, what was done to them. This is how satanism spreads via trauma.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:23 am
Respectfully, its been a few years and the ABUSE continues in Church for many. Obeone, I understand that you may not have been or feel abused. My daughter is going through a divorce from an abuser right now; I've learned a lot about abuse in the last three months. She did everything 'right', temple marriage, returned missionary, etc.....like many of us with regard to the Church.
For Infowarior82, RW, Fred, Chip, and many others...the source of their emotional anger, frustration, and 'not-an-honest-mistake' position is from the emotional and spiritual abuse they experienced from the Church. To the aforementioned jaded and abused, YOUR anger, positions, and feelings of doubt are very much justified and warranted!
Thus the hostility towards Tim Ballard, enmity/paranoia about others doing God's work. Tim Ballard did not do anything to them nor did Brigham Young, but they start torturing dead people, then progress on from there.
It's easy for me to detect, since I have seen it before. It is a very strong energy pattern. It is a kind of Revenge fantasy and self justification. They feel victimized by X, so they find something related to X (like Young) and attack it/torture it, then they begin deriving a sense of self satisfaction from it. This encourages them to continue further (down the satan spiral path) and they start looking for more important targets to focus on and criticize, such as Tim Ballard or GLenn Beck.
None of them were the ones they want revenge on, but they are associated to the ones they want revenge on. THus the victim becomes the victimizer. This is a perpetual cycle satan constructed for them.
If you wish to be a victim, then sure, your feelings are justified. But you cannot claim victimhood status when you begin using your power and misusing it the same way you feel Nelson misused it.
As Jordan Peterson noted in his podcast with Tim Ballard recently, the human mind reproduces traumatic experiences, as a way to attempt to understand/heal from the trauma. I see it as processing the information and leting it flow instead of it being blocked somewhere in the chakras. Thus the simplest way to create more satanists and Cains, is to create trauma in individuals and societies (Gulf of Tonkin, Wars). This inevitably sets a person's avatar body and soul on the path of perdition, hoping they will choose hell of their own free will.
Judgment is not done by me or god. Judgment is the logickal process of a soul/body choosing one path over another. 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023 are critical choice points in this novel's plot. Judgment is simply The Godhead and Divine Counsel assessing your actions, plus and minus, and adding them up to produce a sentence or aka judgment. Your own soul tends to judge you more harshly than any others.
As for Obeone, the best I can recommend is that he take ivermectin like Sub did. Because they share a similar issue. I don't know if Obeone took the mrna or other shots, but there is likely a high incidence of transfection from others that did. This needs to be purged in order for the spirit/soul to reconnect to the body. Otherwise, Obeone/Sub would act the same way, seeing nothing wrong with LDS decisions.
Thank you! I am not a therapist and this is, indeed, a deep rabbit hole. So, I'm only giving my current thoughts...and could be 'wrong' on any of this! ...nothing I can quote scripture on!
Yesterday was a big 'ah-ha' day for me...on my feelings about the Church and linking that to what I've learned about what my daughter's marriage abuse. With my daughter's current divorce, she didn't even know she was being emotionally abused, 'walking on eggshells', gaslighted, and being coercively controlled. She has now learned to set strong boundaries; she's empowered and feels 'free'; she is not playing the victim. The unfortunate result is, that for the time being, she has a strong distrust of men.
Honestly, all of us had different experiences with Covid and the Church. I may have assumed that everyone's negative positions on church were all a result of the church covid response. I still think many of us do. But, I will only discuss my Church covid experience (nightmare).
I personally experienced:
1. coercive-spiritual control
2. unrighteous dominion, psychological propaganda
3. alienation...we were black-sheep and ostracized
4. purposely Ignored by leaders with their unwillingness to even talk about covid; ignored emails
5. stared at by members and leaders like we had leprosy
6. gaslighted when we knew were following spirit, the science, and were very well informed
7. made fun of
8. constantly made to feel 'less than' and we were 'bad Mormons' for not 'Following the Prophet' with unending follow-the-prophet lessons and testimonies. It was just over the top.
9. looked down upon with leaders/members being holier-than-thou F-hypocrites wearing chin-diapers with their masks
10. Wife felt like she was walking on eggshells and everyone staring at 'us'
11. there was 'no love' from our ward at all, even last year
We were, actually, treated wrongly. Yes, I only just now recognize that I suffered emotional and spiritual abused and was the recipient of unrighteous dominion.. If any of you gaslight me and tell me I wasn't abused, I already know better. (Insert 4-letter words here.)
We didn't go to church for a year during covid. Items 1-11 happened after they restarted church meetings. That is when Bishop asked me to run the video for zoom broadcasts. I was one of the very first unmasked members back in church. (Bishop indicated he didn't care if I were masked.). But, boy was I stared at.
We had a lot of ward funerals that year; even middle-aged members. I tried and 'offered' to warn everyone; and now we've been proven 100% correct on Covid vaxx dangers. The entire Church covid-hoax response (vaxx, masks, closing church, etc) was 100% WRONG. More members/people will die. Sure glad I wasn't brainwashed in 'following the prophet'....over a cliff!
Now that the 'spiritually in-tune' have been proven right, my leaders, and the church in general, still refuse to 'talk about it' or admit any wrong-doing. No epic blunder here; Let's sweep the thing under the rug and totally ignore it. What kind of blind mass psychosis is still going on here? Do I want these people to lead me? ....no.
I admit, the whole experience does get me emotionally worked up. I do not believe I can start to heal from this abuse until I actually recognize I was abused. It's all starting to make sense. Right or wrong, all unknowingly, I now recognize my personal response has been to set strong boundaries and distance myself from my abusers:
-getting up and walking out of church over brainwashed lessons
-stopped watching general conference a few times
-avoiding situations where I would have to sustain anyone
-not going to stake conferences
-declaring that the church no longer had the moral authority to ask me the WoW question; that I was answerable only to God on that question.
-no longer trusting church leadership
-no longer allow my sons to be interviewed alone
-changed wards (only half of our new ward wore masks; the last Bishop was 'fired' for refusing to wear a mask).
-joining LDSFF for therapy!
I could have just not gone back to church, but I didn't. I have a very strong testimony of the Gospel, BoM, and JS. But, I'm not blind to the fact that there are a lot of very serious issues in the church. 'All is NOT well in Zion'.
-end rant, thank you for listening.
For some it takes a while to turn their entire world view upside down, especially life long professionals in medicine like Nelson.Ymarsakar wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 7:30 am "An honest error is when no evil is intended, and one believes they are doing the right thing, and they are doing the best they know how, being true to the current light and knowledge they possess.
God is merciful to honest mistakes, and He forgives them after perpetrators have suffered the natural consequences of these errors."
Thta was true in 2020 and 2021. But not in 2022.
If you run over a bump in the road, you are not guilty of intentionally killing that child that was a bump. But if I sit there next to you and say, hey you just ran over a child, and you just shrug and say "get out of here, you don't know what you are talking about, I am the authority here".
You in trouble.
Sorry for your pain.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 7:58 am Thank you! I am not a therapist and this is, indeed, a deep rabbit hole. So, I'm only giving my current thoughts...and could be 'wrong' on any of this! ...nothing I can quote scripture on!
Yesterday was a big 'ah-ha' day for me...on my feelings about the Church and linking that to what I've learned about my daughter's marriage abuse. With my daughter's current divorce, she didn't even know she was being emotionally abused, 'walking on eggshells', gaslighted, and being coercively controlled. She has now learned to set strong boundaries; she's empowered and feels 'free'; she is not playing the victim. The unfortunate result is, that for the time being, she has a strong distrust of men.
Honestly, all of us had different experiences with Covid and the Church. I may have assumed that everyone's negative positions on church were all a result of the church covid response. I still think many of us do. But, I will only discuss my Church covid experience (nightmare).
I personally experienced:
1. coercive-spiritual control
2. unrighteous dominion, psychological propaganda
3. alienation...we were black-sheep and ostracized
4. purposely Ignored by leaders with their unwillingness to even talk about covid; ignored emails
5. stared at by members and leaders like we had leprosy
6. gaslighted when we knew we were following spirit, the science, and were very well informed
7. made fun of
8. constantly made to feel 'less than' and we were 'bad Mormons' for not 'Following the Prophet' with unending follow-the-prophet lessons and testimonies. It was just over the top.
9. looked down upon with leaders/members being holier-than-thou F-hypocrites wearing chin-diapers with their masks
10. Wife felt like she was walking on eggshells and everyone staring at 'us'
11. there was 'no love' from our ward at all, even last year
We were, actually, treated wrongly. Yes, I only just now recognize that I suffered emotional and spiritual abused and was the recipient of unrighteous dominion.. If any of you gaslight me and tell me I wasn't abused, I already know better. (Insert 4-letter words here.)
We didn't go to church for a year during covid. Items 1-11 happened after they restarted church meetings. That is when Bishop asked me to run the video for zoom broadcasts. I was one of the very first unmasked members back in church. (Bishop indicated he didn't care if I were masked.). But, boy was I stared at.
We had a lot of ward funerals that year; even middle-aged members. I tried and 'offered' to warn everyone; and now we've been proven 100% correct on Covid vaxx dangers. The entire Church covid-hoax response (vaxx, masks, closing church, etc) was 100% WRONG. More members/people will die. Sure glad I wasn't brainwashed in 'following the prophet'....over a cliff!
Now that the 'spiritually in-tune' have been proven right, my leaders, and the church in general, still refuse to 'talk about it' or admit any wrong-doing. No epic blunder here; Let's sweep the thing under the rug and totally ignore it. What kind of blind mass psychosis is still going on here? Do I want these people to lead me? ....no.
I admit, the whole experience does get me emotionally worked up. I do not believe I can start to heal from this abuse until I actually recognize I was abused. It's all starting to make sense. Right or wrong, all unknowingly, I now recognize my personal response has been to set strong boundaries and distance myself from my abusers:
-getting up and walking out of church over brainwashed lessons
-stopped watching general conference a few times
-avoiding situations where I would have to sustain anyone
-not going to stake conferences
-declaring that the church no longer had the moral authority to ask me the WoW question; that I was answerable only to God on that question.
-no longer trusting church leadership
-no longer allowing my sons to be interviewed alone
-changed wards (only half of our new ward wore masks; the last Bishop was 'fired' for refusing to wear a mask).
-joining LDSFF for therapy!
I could have just not gone back to church, but I didn't. I still have a very strong testimony of the Gospel, BoM, and JS. But, I'm not blind to the fact that there are a lot of very serious issues in the church. 'All is NOT well in Zion' and a whole lot 'stinketh'.
-end rant, thank you for listening.
You wrest the scriptures. Isaiah said nothing of the sort.InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 8:01 am Isaiah tells us that our church leaders entered into a covenant with the gadiantons. That sounds intentional to me.
Jeremiah tells us of prophets relying on their own wisdom in the latter days.
This is the Church of Jesus Christ. Was the church Christ like?Obeone wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 11:10 amSorry for your pain.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 7:58 am Thank you! I am not a therapist and this is, indeed, a deep rabbit hole. So, I'm only giving my current thoughts...and could be 'wrong' on any of this! ...nothing I can quote scripture on!
Yesterday was a big 'ah-ha' day for me...on my feelings about the Church and linking that to what I've learned about my daughter's marriage abuse. With my daughter's current divorce, she didn't even know she was being emotionally abused, 'walking on eggshells', gaslighted, and being coercively controlled. She has now learned to set strong boundaries; she's empowered and feels 'free'; she is not playing the victim. The unfortunate result is, that for the time being, she has a strong distrust of men.
Honestly, all of us had different experiences with Covid and the Church. I may have assumed that everyone's negative positions on church were all a result of the church covid response. I still think many of us do. But, I will only discuss my Church covid experience (nightmare).
I personally experienced:
1. coercive-spiritual control
2. unrighteous dominion, psychological propaganda
3. alienation...we were black-sheep and ostracized
4. purposely Ignored by leaders with their unwillingness to even talk about covid; ignored emails
5. stared at by members and leaders like we had leprosy
6. gaslighted when we knew we were following spirit, the science, and were very well informed
7. made fun of
8. constantly made to feel 'less than' and we were 'bad Mormons' for not 'Following the Prophet' with unending follow-the-prophet lessons and testimonies. It was just over the top.
9. looked down upon with leaders/members being holier-than-thou F-hypocrites wearing chin-diapers with their masks
10. Wife felt like she was walking on eggshells and everyone staring at 'us'
11. there was 'no love' from our ward at all, even last year
We were, actually, treated wrongly. Yes, I only just now recognize that I suffered emotional and spiritual abused and was the recipient of unrighteous dominion.. If any of you gaslight me and tell me I wasn't abused, I already know better. (Insert 4-letter words here.)
We didn't go to church for a year during covid. Items 1-11 happened after they restarted church meetings. That is when Bishop asked me to run the video for zoom broadcasts. I was one of the very first unmasked members back in church. (Bishop indicated he didn't care if I were masked.). But, boy was I stared at.
We had a lot of ward funerals that year; even middle-aged members. I tried and 'offered' to warn everyone; and now we've been proven 100% correct on Covid vaxx dangers. The entire Church covid-hoax response (vaxx, masks, closing church, etc) was 100% WRONG. More members/people will die. Sure glad I wasn't brainwashed in 'following the prophet'....over a cliff!
Now that the 'spiritually in-tune' have been proven right, my leaders, and the church in general, still refuse to 'talk about it' or admit any wrong-doing. No epic blunder here; Let's sweep the thing under the rug and totally ignore it. What kind of blind mass psychosis is still going on here? Do I want these people to lead me? ....no.
I admit, the whole experience does get me emotionally worked up. I do not believe I can start to heal from this abuse until I actually recognize I was abused. It's all starting to make sense. Right or wrong, all unknowingly, I now recognize my personal response has been to set strong boundaries and distance myself from my abusers:
-getting up and walking out of church over brainwashed lessons
-stopped watching general conference a few times
-avoiding situations where I would have to sustain anyone
-not going to stake conferences
-declaring that the church no longer had the moral authority to ask me the WoW question; that I was answerable only to God on that question.
-no longer trusting church leadership
-no longer allowing my sons to be interviewed alone
-changed wards (only half of our new ward wore masks; the last Bishop was 'fired' for refusing to wear a mask).
-joining LDSFF for therapy!
I could have just not gone back to church, but I didn't. I still have a very strong testimony of the Gospel, BoM, and JS. But, I'm not blind to the fact that there are a lot of very serious issues in the church. 'All is NOT well in Zion' and a whole lot 'stinketh'.
-end rant, thank you for listening.
But from what you said here it sounds like you are failing this test because you locked yourself out of the Temple.
According to this you fit this category:
"he that is overcome and bringeth not forth fruits, even according to this pattern, is not of me." (D&C 52:18)
Do you think Abraham had it easier? Yet he did not fail this test.
Time to man up!
Obeone wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 11:10 amSorry for your pain.IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 7:58 am Thank you! I am not a therapist and this is, indeed, a deep rabbit hole. So, I'm only giving my current thoughts...and could be 'wrong' on any of this! ...nothing I can quote scripture on!
Yesterday was a big 'ah-ha' day for me...on my feelings about the Church and linking that to what I've learned about my daughter's marriage abuse. With my daughter's current divorce, she didn't even know she was being emotionally abused, 'walking on eggshells', gaslighted, and being coercively controlled. She has now learned to set strong boundaries; she's empowered and feels 'free'; she is not playing the victim. The unfortunate result is, that for the time being, she has a strong distrust of men.
Honestly, all of us had different experiences with Covid and the Church. I may have assumed that everyone's negative positions on church were all a result of the church covid response. I still think many of us do. But, I will only discuss my Church covid experience (nightmare).
I personally experienced:
1. coercive-spiritual control
2. unrighteous dominion, psychological propaganda
3. alienation...we were black-sheep and ostracized
4. purposely Ignored by leaders with their unwillingness to even talk about covid; ignored emails
5. stared at by members and leaders like we had leprosy
6. gaslighted when we knew we were following spirit, the science, and were very well informed
7. made fun of
8. constantly made to feel 'less than' and we were 'bad Mormons' for not 'Following the Prophet' with unending follow-the-prophet lessons and testimonies. It was just over the top.
9. looked down upon with leaders/members being holier-than-thou F-hypocrites wearing chin-diapers with their masks
10. Wife felt like she was walking on eggshells and everyone staring at 'us'
11. there was 'no love' from our ward at all, even last year
We were, actually, treated wrongly. Yes, I only just now recognize that I suffered emotional and spiritual abused and was the recipient of unrighteous dominion.. If any of you gaslight me and tell me I wasn't abused, I already know better. (Insert 4-letter words here.)
We didn't go to church for a year during covid. Items 1-11 happened after they restarted church meetings. That is when Bishop asked me to run the video for zoom broadcasts. I was one of the very first unmasked members back in church. (Bishop indicated he didn't care if I were masked.). But, boy was I stared at.
We had a lot of ward funerals that year; even middle-aged members. I tried and 'offered' to warn everyone; and now we've been proven 100% correct on Covid vaxx dangers. The entire Church covid-hoax response (vaxx, masks, closing church, etc) was 100% WRONG. More members/people will die. Sure glad I wasn't brainwashed in 'following the prophet'....over a cliff!
Now that the 'spiritually in-tune' have been proven right, my leaders, and the church in general, still refuse to 'talk about it' or admit any wrong-doing. No epic blunder here; Let's sweep the thing under the rug and totally ignore it. What kind of blind mass psychosis is still going on here? Do I want these people to lead me? ....no.
I admit, the whole experience does get me emotionally worked up. I do not believe I can start to heal from this abuse until I actually recognize I was abused. It's all starting to make sense. Right or wrong, all unknowingly, I now recognize my personal response has been to set strong boundaries and distance myself from my abusers:
-getting up and walking out of church over brainwashed lessons
-stopped watching general conference a few times
-avoiding situations where I would have to sustain anyone
-not going to stake conferences
-declaring that the church no longer had the moral authority to ask me the WoW question; that I was answerable only to God on that question.
-no longer trusting church leadership
-no longer allowing my sons to be interviewed alone
-changed wards (only half of our new ward wore masks; the last Bishop was 'fired' for refusing to wear a mask).
-joining LDSFF for therapy!
I could have just not gone back to church, but I didn't. I still have a very strong testimony of the Gospel, BoM, and JS. But, I'm not blind to the fact that there are a lot of very serious issues in the church. 'All is NOT well in Zion' and a whole lot 'stinketh'.
-end rant, thank you for listening.
But from what you said here it sounds like you are failing this test because you locked yourself out of the Temple.
According to this you fit this category:
"he that is overcome and bringeth not forth fruits, even according to this pattern, is not of me." (D&C 52:18)
Do you think Abraham had it easier? Yet he did not fail this test.
Time to man up!
Regardless of your interpretation of Isaiah, they have. There is sufficient evidence to suggest they are either leaders in this NWO effort, or they have handlers guiding them along, or a little of both. They are parroting the exact same ideas and philosophies as the NWO gads.Obeone wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 11:12 amYou wrest the scriptures. Isaiah said nothing of the sort.InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑July 12th, 2023, 8:01 am Isaiah tells us that our church leaders entered into a covenant with the gadiantons. That sounds intentional to me.
Jeremiah tells us of prophets relying on their own wisdom in the latter days.
27 Now it came to pass that those judges had many friends and kindreds; and the remainder, yea, even almost all the lawyers and the high priests, did gather themselves together, and unite with the kindreds of those judges who were to be tried according to the law.
28 And they did enter into a covenant one with another, yea, even into that covenant which was given by them of old, which covenant was given and administered by the devil, to combine against all righteousness.
