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Re: Q
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:26 pm
by Obeone
Chip wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:49 am
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:41 am
I am sorry for your suffering.
Might I suggest that all the above mentioned people do not lead with "the Church is apostate, and Q15 are devil worshipers?"
You might get a more receptive audience if you consider the possibility (which I know to be a fact), that the Q15 made an honest but deadly error, and that it is all a test to teach the Church to:
1) Follow the Spirit more than follow the prophet, because the Spirit outranks the prophet EVERY time, and
2) do not throw away the baby (the keys of the Kingdom of God on earth) together with bath water of "safe and effective" error.
How else can God disabuse the Church from about 100 years of prophet idol worship?
This had to be done to:
1) wake the Church up, and
2) to see who will deny the truth over an honest error of Q15.
Many on this forum fall into (#2). Pun intended.
Time to repent. We all need it.
There's no sign, yet, that the church has ANY awareness that there is a problem. All is well, better than ever, perhaps. Doesn't seem like we're getting any closer to recognizing the problem. Actually, everyone is extraordinarily committed to NOT seeing the problem. Perhaps a greater disaster is in order, since nothing budged with this last fiasco.
There will be a greater disaster. The death rate from the jabs will increase.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:27 pm
by IsaiahVision
IF it were an 'honest' mistake, did not the Church, from the top-down, STILL use Unrighteous Dominion and spiritual/emotional abuse against vaxx/mask-resistant Members over several years? ...of whom my family was one.
Rhetorical question to all, what happens to Church priesthood leaders who use Unrighteous Dominion? ...and do not lead in humility, spirit, and truth? ...who cannot confess their sins? ...who expect blind-obedience? ...who don't know the scriptures? What say ye?
Re: Q
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:28 pm
by Obeone
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 12:10 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:41 am
How else can God disabuse the Church from about 100 years of prophet idol worship?
This had to be done to:
1) wake the Church up, and
2) to see who will deny the truth over an honest error of Q15.
Obeone, I don't disagree with you on the prophet idol-worship!
But, it seems you are suggesting that God created Covid-19 and/or purposely deceived the Prophet in order to 'wake the church up'? ...and test members?
Is that correct? Please clarify?
God allowed all this as a test.
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:30 pm
by creator
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:28 pmGod allowed all this as a test.
To see if our faith is in Christ OR an apostate Church.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:35 pm
by Obeone
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:27 pm
IF it were an 'honest' mistake, did not the Church, from the top-down, STILL use Unrighteous Dominion and spiritual/emotional abuse against vaxx/mask-resistant Members over several years? ...of whom my family was one.
Rhetorical question to all, what happens to Church priesthood leaders who use Unrighteous Dominion? ...and do not lead in humility, spirit, and truth? ...who cannot confess their sins? ...who expect blind-obedience? ...who don't know the scriptures? What say ye?
I did not experience any of that personally. My priesthood leaders were wonderful (though wrong).
Sorry you had a different experience.
However,
Again, the key difference is that I did not accuse the Church of being apostate, and Q15 as satanists. As many on this forum do.
That accusation is false, and should get you excommunicated.
If you still have the Spirit with you, you would know that the keys are still with the Church. It is still the Kingdom of God on earth. And it will not be destroyed by an apostasy. It is not in the program.
Why?
Because it is the last dispensation, and God will not allow it, by cleaning house.
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:39 pm
by Obeone
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:30 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:28 pmGod allowed all this as a test.
To see if our faith is in Christ OR an apostate Church.
The Church is not apostate. Because this is the last dispensation.
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 1:46 pm
by IsaiahVision
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:30 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:28 pmGod allowed all this as a test.
To see if our faith is in Christ OR an apostate Church.
I believe there are shades of apostasy, for members and the Church. Both can move away or toward apostasy. I do not believe it is an 'all or nothing' deal.
The Church certainly has dogmas and the commandments men mingled with scripture. The Church is certainly not following all of the church constitution as revealed in the D&C.
That doesn't mean the Church has become the the church of satan or is in full-blown apostasy.
Are there not really two types of apostasies mingled here?
One is apostasy questioning the authority of the Church.
The other is apostasy from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and belief in Christ, as the Son of God, who was resurrected on the 3rd day.
Nice to finally interact with you, Creator!
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 2:07 pm
by IsaiahVision
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:35 pm
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:27 pm
IF it were an 'honest' mistake, did not the Church, from the top-down, STILL use Unrighteous Dominion and spiritual/emotional abuse against vaxx/mask-resistant Members over several years? ...of whom my family was one.
Rhetorical question to all, what happens to Church priesthood leaders who use Unrighteous Dominion? ...and do not lead in humility, spirit, and truth? ...who cannot confess their sins? ...who expect blind-obedience? ...who don't know the scriptures? What say ye?
I did not experience any of that personally. My priesthood leaders were wonderful (though wrong).
Sorry you had a different experience.
However,
Again, the key difference is that I did not accuse the Church of being apostate, and Q15 as satanists. As many on this forum do.
That accusation is false, and should get you excommunicated.
If you still have the Spirit with you, you would know that the keys are still with the Church. It is still the Kingdom of God on earth. And it will not be destroyed by an apostasy. It is not in the program.
Why?
Because it is the last dispensation, and God will not allow it, by cleaning house.
Mind your feelings, Obeone! Calm yourself.
Yes, I didn't have a great covid experience in Church; ...shunned, ignored, and gaslighted.
Personally, I do not think the Church is in full-blown apostasy. See my last post.
I have not accused the Q15 of being satanists; although you addressed this to 'others'. (Expressions of this kind can be a result of spiritual abuse; we are all just trying to figure it all out.) Teach by explaining and the scriptures.
Back to the Q15, I will add, though, that some of the apostles
may not actually be apostles...called of God.
D&C 64:38-39
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and
they who are NOT apostles and prophets shall be known.
Seems the NT Church went through this too.
Revelations 2:2
"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou
canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them
which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
Would appreciate your interruption of these.
Thanks,
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 2:10 pm
by Chip
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:30 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:28 pmGod allowed all this as a test.
To see if our faith is in Christ OR an apostate Church.
It turns out, despite what members suppose, that their allegiance is to the church, way before Christ. This is how 95% or more of members actually operate. They THINK they are serving Christ, but the church is their master.
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 2:13 pm
by Fred
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:39 pm
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:30 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:28 pmGod allowed all this as a test.
To see if our faith is in Christ OR an apostate Church.
The Church is not apostate. Because this is the last dispensation.
I believe that there are people with enough faith or that have favor with God, that if they ask for a miracle, one will be provided. In that event, the power of the Priesthood is alive and well. Furthermore, the doctrine of the church (scriptures) is still true, regardless of how far off the rails the Q15 fall.
Perhaps our definition of apostate differs.
By your own admission, the Q15 are liars, and preachers of false doctrine. To the degree that the sheep are deceived into following a fake prophet or any man over Christ, is a planned coup to usurp authority. I personally expect a true prophet to be more humble as opposed to a bragster. I expect Jesus to address this in due time. In the meantime, I would not be so quick to defend the clearly wrong. You know they are wrong. You admit that they are wrong. Every single second that goes by that they do not retract their lies, causes more death and destruction. A mother will unknowing kill her child by following their advice.
How many more must die before you acknowledge that they do in fact know they were wrong and continually murder people rather than come forth with the truth?
The best time to admit a mistake is as soon as you find out about it. If their mass murder spree was truly an honest mistake, they would humbly admit it. But they have not. Silence is doubling down.
Re: Q
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 2:18 pm
by Chip
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:26 pm
Chip wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:49 am
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 11:41 am
I am sorry for your suffering.
Might I suggest that all the above mentioned people do not lead with "the Church is apostate, and Q15 are devil worshipers?"
You might get a more receptive audience if you consider the possibility (which I know to be a fact), that the Q15 made an honest but deadly error, and that it is all a test to teach the Church to:
1) Follow the Spirit more than follow the prophet, because the Spirit outranks the prophet EVERY time, and
2) do not throw away the baby (the keys of the Kingdom of God on earth) together with bath water of "safe and effective" error.
How else can God disabuse the Church from about 100 years of prophet idol worship?
This had to be done to:
1) wake the Church up, and
2) to see who will deny the truth over an honest error of Q15.
Many on this forum fall into (#2). Pun intended.
Time to repent. We all need it.
There's no sign, yet, that the church has ANY awareness that there is a problem. All is well, better than ever, perhaps. Doesn't seem like we're getting any closer to recognizing the problem. Actually, everyone is extraordinarily committed to NOT seeing the problem. Perhaps a greater disaster is in order, since nothing budged with this last fiasco.
There will be a greater disaster. The death rate from the jabs will increase.
Actually, this is what I expect will happen, too. The seeds were sufficiently sown for such an outcome. And I see it unfolding all around me.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 2:51 pm
by Obeone
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:07 pm
Back to the Q15, I will add, though, that some of the apostles
may not actually be apostles...called of God.
D&C 64:38-39
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and
they who are NOT apostles and prophets shall be known.
The NT church went through this too.
Revelations 2:2
"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them
which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
Would appreciate any other interruption you have of these.
Thanks,
This is for before the internet day, or for when global communications are down. Then people can pretend to be apostles, because you cannot check it on the website, for example.
Currently all who are Q15 are ordained apostles.
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 2:58 pm
by Obeone
Fred wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:13 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:39 pm
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 1:30 pm
To see if our faith is in Christ OR an apostate Church.
The Church is not apostate. Because this is the last dispensation.
I believe that there are people with enough faith or that have favor with God, that if they ask for a miracle, one will be provided. In that event, the power of the Priesthood is alive and well. Furthermore, the doctrine of the church (scriptures) is still true, regardless of how far off the rails the Q15 fall.
Perhaps our definition of apostate differs.
By your own admission, the Q15 are liars, and preachers of false doctrine. To the degree that the sheep are deceived into following a fake prophet or any man over Christ, is a planned coup to usurp authority. I personally expect a true prophet to be more humble as opposed to a bragster. I expect Jesus to address this in due time. In the meantime, I would not be so quick to defend the clearly wrong. You know they are wrong. You admit that they are wrong. Every single second that goes by that they do not retract their lies, causes more death and destruction. A mother will unknowing kill her child by following their advice.
How many more must die before you acknowledge that they do in fact know they were wrong and continually murder people rather than come forth with the truth?
The best time to admit a mistake is as soon as you find out about it. If their mass murder spree was truly an honest mistake, they would humbly admit it. But they have not. Silence is doubling down.
A lie by definition is intentional. So also is murder.
There was no intention of evil with Q15.
Many of the GA are blinded by their prophet idol worship.
This is the reason we have this lesson taught to us by God.
When will they admit it?
Don't know. But they will eventually admit it, or they will be damned.
For now, I suspect, the reality of the massive error is only beginning to dawn on them.
The test is still in progress. Have patience, and save some people by warning them against the depopulation shot.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 3:04 pm
by InfoWarrior82
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:51 pm
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:07 pm
Back to the Q15, I will add, though, that some of the apostles
may not actually be apostles...called of God.
D&C 64:38-39
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and
they who are NOT apostles and prophets shall be known.
The NT church went through this too.
Revelations 2:2
"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them
which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
Would appreciate any other interruption you have of these.
Thanks,
This is for before the internet day, or for when global communications are down. Then people can pretend to be apostles, because you cannot check it on the website, for example.
Currently all who are Q15 are ordained apostles.
D&C 121 says that even if a man be ordained, it is meaningless if they are doing abominable things before the Lord.
Were you asleep in Sunday school?
(No wonder they can't do prophet things)
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 3:09 pm
by creator
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:58 pm
A lie by definition is intentional. So also is murder.
There was no intention of evil with Q15.
Many of the GA are blinded by their prophet idol worship.
This is the reason we have this lesson taught to us by God.
When will they admit it?
Don't know. But they will eventually admit it, or they will be damned. ...
And this is why I refrain from judging their intent. I don't know if they are acting knowingly or ignorantly.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 3:25 pm
by HVDC
The more ya know.
The less ya know.
Funny how that works.
Sir H
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 3:28 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 3:09 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:58 pm
A lie by definition is intentional. So also is murder.
There was no intention of evil with Q15.
Many of the GA are blinded by their prophet idol worship.
This is the reason we have this lesson taught to us by God.
When will they admit it?
Don't know. But they will eventually admit it, or they will be damned. ...
And this is why I refrain from judging their intent. I don't know if they are acting knowingly or ignorantly.
What we do know is that members have been very vocal about their opposition to what they've been doing, many of them sending letters, emails, and videos. If the Q15 are completely ignorant of this, well, they must have their heads stuffed in the sand if they don't know what's going on.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 3:44 pm
by IsaiahVision
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:51 pm
IsaiahVision wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:07 pm
Back to the Q15, I will add, though, that some of the apostles
may not actually be apostles...called of God.
D&C 64:38-39
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and
they who are NOT apostles and prophets shall be known.
The NT church went through this too.
Revelations 2:2
"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them
which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
Would appreciate any other interruption you have of these.
Thanks,
This is for before the internet day, or for when global communications are down. Then people can pretend to be apostles, because you cannot check it on the website, for example.
Currently all who are Q15 are ordained apostles.
Good answer, actually. But, not completely convinced. Postal service, while slower, was well in service for thousands of years even by 1831 and in NT times. Even Rome sent letters throughout the Empire. The 1831 Church still setup stake conferences and such by mail, or carrier, communicating who was presiding, which apostles were coming, etc.???
Considering scriptures warnings from the Lord about false prophets, these scriptures could make sense for modern times.
Re: The Great Apostasy Continues
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 3:53 pm
by Fred
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 3:09 pm
Obeone wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 2:58 pm
A lie by definition is intentional. So also is murder.
There was no intention of evil with Q15.
Many of the GA are blinded by their prophet idol worship.
This is the reason we have this lesson taught to us by God.
When will they admit it?
Don't know. But they will eventually admit it, or they will be damned. ...
And this is why I refrain from judging their intent. I don't know if they are acting knowingly or ignorantly.
I do not see any way possible for the Q15 to NOT know.
Let's see, not a single person on planet earth has benefitted from the jab. It doesn't work as described. Even Fauci knows that.
Millions of adverse reactions (a small fraction) have been reported.
For sure the Q15 are not stupid enough to believe the main stream media as it is them personally that authorizes the thousands of lies told daily on KSL. It's a safe bet that if you ask anyone on the street if they have heard that the shot was NOT effective, they would say yes. I can not even imagine that the Q15 have not heard.
Are the Q15 seekers of truth? or frauds?
If I was going to publicly declare as a self described mouthpiece of the Almighty God that it was God that did something or that he was personally responsible for, etc., like the evil jab is a godsend, I would not tell such a grandiose lie without knowledge.
A lie told unknowingly is still a falsehood.
I can't even imagine telling people that the biggest fraud in earth's history was God's fault.
But for you people that think the Q15 are just too stupid, uneducated, dim witted, or retarded, to know a truth that is expressed online daily thousands of times, ok. Maybe it was their ability to collect money that is the reason they are PSRs.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 4:05 pm
by creator
Just look at how many people complied in the first place with the fake pandemic. The propaganda is working on the majority of people. We're living in the Matrix. The majority of people are not awake, like NPCs going about their day, following their programming, rooting for their team (Left or Right).
Most of them simply believe what they are told, until their team decides they can believe something else, then they follow that narrative, and so on.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 4:50 pm
by Fred
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 4:05 pm
Just look at how many people complied in the first place with the fake pandemic. The propaganda is working on the majority of people. We're living in the Matrix. The majority of people are not awake, like NPCs going about their day, following their programming, rooting for their team (Left or Right).
Most of them simply believe what they are told, until their
team decides they can believe something else, then they follow that narrative, and so on.
Well, sure, the masses are not all that bright. Almost everyone was fooled for a minute. But even if you bonk someone in the head with a bat, they will come to their senses in a moment, unless you bonked them really hard. We woke up at different rates. It didn't take long for it to be a topic on LDSFF. As more people became aware and shared the truth, even more became aware. The really dim witted ones, not seekers of truth, still are unaware. But even if the Q15 were the dimmest of wits, they have people working for them that are not. And I am not calling them the dimmest of wits. I find it much easier to believe that they are evil than stupid. Money can lead to corruption. I just give the odds that they do not know at zero. And if they truly do not know, they have no business advising anyone of anything, ever!
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 5:05 pm
by 4Joshua8
Fred wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 4:50 pm
creator wrote: ↑July 11th, 2023, 4:05 pm
Just look at how many people complied in the first place with the fake pandemic. The propaganda is working on the majority of people. We're living in the Matrix. The majority of people are not awake, like NPCs going about their day, following their programming, rooting for their team (Left or Right).
Most of them simply believe what they are told, until their
team decides they can believe something else, then they follow that narrative, and so on.
Well, sure, the masses are not all that bright. Almost everyone was fooled for a minute. But even if you bonk someone in the head with a bat, they will come to their senses in a moment, unless you bonked them really hard. We woke up at different rates. It didn't take long for it to be a topic on LDSFF. As more people became aware and shared the truth, even more became aware. The really dim witted ones, not seekers of truth, still are unaware. But even if the Q15 were the dimmest of wits, they have people working for them that are not. And I am not calling them the dimmest of wits. I find it much easier to believe that they are evil than stupid. Money can lead to corruption. I just give the odds that they do not know at zero. And if they truly do not know, they have no business advising anyone of anything, ever!
Isaiah 56 : 10
His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 5:49 pm
by anonymous91
This is not the first time that the Q15 has supported murder. There is another Church policy that supports it to this day.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 6:12 pm
by Obeone
Fred wrote: ↑July 10th, 2023, 5:47 pm
Hiker wrote: ↑July 10th, 2023, 5:19 pm
Chip wrote: ↑July 10th, 2023, 1:51 pm
You missed the thread about the Q15 receiving saline shots for the photo ops. The news came from Jake Oaks, grandson of Dallin H. Oaks.
The quorum of the 15 knew the shot was dangerous, that's why they used saline!
You are correct. Here is the video of Oaks grandson saying that they took saline.
https://utahpatriots.org/videos/Jake%20 ... erview.mp4
So I watched the video.
1) It has a guy in the end saying what Jake told him.
2) the guy reported, that according to Jake, "the media" decided to use saline for photo ops, because they had incident of a lady collapsing right after receiving the shot while on camera. So to prevent this from happening on camera they’d use saline.
It does not say that entire Q15 got saline.
Re: The Coronavirus Hoax
Posted: July 11th, 2023, 7:14 pm
by Fred
Should the real question be "Why not the Amish?" instead of no new godsend wanted or needed, God already has it covered...
https://utahpatriots.org/videos/why%20not%20Amish.mp4