LDS Freedom Forum

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:46 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:36 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:24 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 9:32 am
ROFLOL. A day late and a dollar short. I'm not sure you really understand where we are at in this culture. I'm not making fun of you, but you are about 4 years too late. I dare you to organize a celebration for straight people and the traditional family. Watch the hate fly in. Last year a few people tried to organize a straight parade. They were called white supremacist, bigots, haters, homophobes, etc. You will be fired from your job for participating (or your husband will be), you will become a parahia if you are known in real life. You will be banned from facebook groups, called an evil, horrible person.

I really am glad to see people waking up to what has happened, I really am. I just wish you'd be apart of the hard-core fight 4-5 years ago. Instead, too many people were worrying about "equality" or some other dumb stuff.

At this point, I'm telling you the war is lost; 4-5 years ago maybe not. At this point, yeah the war is lost. I just hope God somehow preserves a remnant and I'm part of it.
----------
"I think traditional folks need to get more creative and stop sitting back watching unable to get over the fact that they have opposition."
---------
You simply don't understand. The traditional folks no longer exists, they all believe in homosexuality now. They all become converted to homosexuality, the war was being fought 4-5 years ago.

Especially inside the Church! As soon as the Church stated open homosexuals could be fully participating members as long as they didn't "act on it"-that was the time to fight. That was the time to stand up and be counted. Instead everyone gave a bunch of excuses about how it was totally cool and fine. And THIS is the logical, spiritual result from it.

It is true, I do not interact with this stuff nor am I in the college scene.

I’m just pointing out logic and it sounds from what your saying, there wasn’t a chance anyways.

To continue with my intent here, if the straight people were called all those names and hated and whatever else then so what...do it anyways. Standing up in righteousness (for something good, done respectfully) the why back down? Maybe it’s the weakness within more than the opposition without that is the problem.

Why not start now? Claim equal treatment. Eventually someone’s got to stop being bullied and be willing to stand up for what is right even if they are hated, right?

You are correct. There is always a chance. Even as slim as a chance as it is now-there is still a chance.

But your last 2 paragraphs hit the core of it. Unless people do as you say then there is absolutely no chance. There has been for waaaaaay too long a complacency inside the Church. "Follow the prophets", thy won't led you astray, just stay in the boat, don't agitate, just sit down, be obedient and all will be well.

What happened is that everyone neglected their own personal duty and responsibility. It wasn't their job to fight wickedness, it was someone else's job, they didn't need to stand up and combat evil ideologies in their own wards and stakes, that was the Bishop's job or the Stake Pres. job. It is too hard to stand up, I'd rather just be quite and not take any flak b/c it's nice being comfortable. It is the actual fulfillment of the wheat and the tares. The men (i.e. the Priesthood, who's duty it is to do this stuff) slept while the enemy sowed tares.

I just hope people realize that the stakes for taking a stand today are MUCH, MUCH higher than they were 4-5 years ago. If you decide to take a stand, you will potentially risk much, your livelihood is almost certainly going to be on the line. And if it gets bad enough (and it just might) even your own life and the life of your family. People need to understand that.

It’s complacency but not from leadership necessarily but in some ways absolutely, We are taught to turn the other cheek, don’t turn in our own-forgive them. Don’t argue, don’t fight, don’t use contention etc. these were good basic guidelines for a general membership but those who are capable of engaging civil and standing righteously without earning the “greater offense” upon their head should never have conceded to being weak push overs. Hope that makes sense.

I agree, the vibe is being felt that this environment has the potential of becoming very dangerous to the livelihood and safety of anyone who opposes or dares to stand.

We must have faith and remember that traditional folks way way outnumber the gays and even the evil possessed ones in this country. Problem is that those who live their religion do so in their own little bubbles or small clicks and they shut the world out. That’s why it’s really hard to get the country folks worked up to action because they do not live in the city and it doesn’t affect them. Just like religious folks tend to poo poo the world out because they don’t live in it even when it’s knocking at their door.

It’s likely just a matter of most people being weak, and when pushed they will cave and all we will have is a select few who are strong and brave.....we need more strong and brave people so “take your vitamins” is actually quite good advice for what we will be facing if we are actually planning on being IN the battle and not trodden under foot.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:47 am The attitude today, even at BYU, is that if you take down a rainbow pro-gay sign, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe.
If you post the Family Proc, even at BYU, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe, AND you are driving kids to suicide.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:49 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:46 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:36 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:24 am

It is true, I do not interact with this stuff nor am I in the college scene.

I’m just pointing out logic and it sounds from what your saying, there wasn’t a chance anyways.

To continue with my intent here, if the straight people were called all those names and hated and whatever else then so what...do it anyways. Standing up in righteousness (for something good, done respectfully) the why back down? Maybe it’s the weakness within more than the opposition without that is the problem.

Why not start now? Claim equal treatment. Eventually someone’s got to stop being bullied and be willing to stand up for what is right even if they are hated, right?

You are correct. There is always a chance. Even as slim as a chance as it is now-there is still a chance.

But your last 2 paragraphs hit the core of it. Unless people do as you say then there is absolutely no chance. There has been for waaaaaay too long a complacency inside the Church. "Follow the prophets", thy won't led you astray, just stay in the boat, don't agitate, just sit down, be obedient and all will be well.

What happened is that everyone neglected their own personal duty and responsibility. It wasn't their job to fight wickedness, it was someone else's job, they didn't need to stand up and combat evil ideologies in their own wards and stakes, that was the Bishop's job or the Stake Pres. job. It is too hard to stand up, I'd rather just be quite and not take any flak b/c it's nice being comfortable. It is the actual fulfillment of the wheat and the tares. The men (i.e. the Priesthood, who's duty it is to do this stuff) slept while the enemy sowed tares.

I just hope people realize that the stakes for taking a stand today are MUCH, MUCH higher than they were 4-5 years ago. If you decide to take a stand, you will potentially risk much, your livelihood is almost certainly going to be on the line. And if it gets bad enough (and it just might) even your own life and the life of your family. People need to understand that.

It’s complacency but not from leadership necessarily but in some ways absolutely, We are taught to turn the other cheek, don’t turn in our own-forgive them. Don’t argue, don’t fight, don’t use contention etc. these were good basic guidelines for a general membership but those who are capable of engaging civil and standing righteously without earning the “greater offense” upon their head should never have conceded to being weak push overs. Hope that makes sense.

I agree, the vibe is being felt that this environment has the potential of becoming very dangerous to the livelihood and safety of anyone who opposes or dares to stand.

We must have faith and remember that traditional folks way way outnumber the gays and even the evil possessed ones in this country. Problem is that those who live their religion do so in their own little bubbles or small clicks and they shut the world out. That’s why it’s really hard to get the country folks worked up to action because they do not live in the city and it doesn’t affect them. Just like religious folks tend to poo poo the world out because they don’t live in it even when it’s knocking at their door.

It’s likely just a matter of most people being weak, and when pushed they will cave and all we will have is a select few who are strong and brave.....we need more strong and brave people so “take your vitamins” is actually quite good advice for what we will be facing if we are actually planning on being IN the battle and not trodden under foot.

The Leadership at the very top (BYU Board of Trustees) has been complacent for 8 days now, since BYU said gay couples could date and kiss on campus. Both sides have been begging them to take a stand and clarify the policy. What's the holdup?

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:46 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:36 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:24 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 9:32 am
ROFLOL. A day late and a dollar short. I'm not sure you really understand where we are at in this culture. I'm not making fun of you, but you are about 4 years too late. I dare you to organize a celebration for straight people and the traditional family. Watch the hate fly in. Last year a few people tried to organize a straight parade. They were called white supremacist, bigots, haters, homophobes, etc. You will be fired from your job for participating (or your husband will be), you will become a parahia if you are known in real life. You will be banned from facebook groups, called an evil, horrible person.

I really am glad to see people waking up to what has happened, I really am. I just wish you'd be apart of the hard-core fight 4-5 years ago. Instead, too many people were worrying about "equality" or some other dumb stuff.

At this point, I'm telling you the war is lost; 4-5 years ago maybe not. At this point, yeah the war is lost. I just hope God somehow preserves a remnant and I'm part of it.
----------
"I think traditional folks need to get more creative and stop sitting back watching unable to get over the fact that they have opposition."
---------
You simply don't understand. The traditional folks no longer exists, they all believe in homosexuality now. They all become converted to homosexuality, the war was being fought 4-5 years ago.

Especially inside the Church! As soon as the Church stated open homosexuals could be fully participating members as long as they didn't "act on it"-that was the time to fight. That was the time to stand up and be counted. Instead everyone gave a bunch of excuses about how it was totally cool and fine. And THIS is the logical, spiritual result from it.

It is true, I do not interact with this stuff nor am I in the college scene.

I’m just pointing out logic and it sounds from what your saying, there wasn’t a chance anyways.

To continue with my intent here, if the straight people were called all those names and hated and whatever else then so what...do it anyways. Standing up in righteousness (for something good, done respectfully) the why back down? Maybe it’s the weakness within more than the opposition without that is the problem.

Why not start now? Claim equal treatment. Eventually someone’s got to stop being bullied and be willing to stand up for what is right even if they are hated, right?

You are correct. There is always a chance. Even as slim as a chance as it is now-there is still a chance.

But your last 2 paragraphs hit the core of it. Unless people do as you say then there is absolutely no chance. There has been for waaaaaay too long a complacency inside the Church. "Follow the prophets", thy won't led you astray, just stay in the boat, don't agitate, just sit down, be obedient and all will be well.

What happened is that everyone neglected their own personal duty and responsibility. It wasn't their job to fight wickedness, it was someone else's job, they didn't need to stand up and combat evil ideologies in their own wards and stakes, that was the Bishop's job or the Stake Pres. job. It is too hard to stand up, I'd rather just be quite and not take any flak b/c it's nice being comfortable. It is the actual fulfillment of the wheat and the tares. The men (i.e. the Priesthood, who's duty it is to do this stuff) slept while the enemy sowed tares.

I just hope people realize that the stakes for taking a stand today are MUCH, MUCH higher than they were 4-5 years ago. If you decide to take a stand, you will potentially risk much, your livelihood is almost certainly going to be on the line. And if it gets bad enough (and it just might) even your own life and the life of your family. People need to understand that.

We must have faith and remember that traditional folks way way outnumber the gays and even the evil possessed ones in this country.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:51 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:47 am The attitude today, even at BYU, is that if you take down a rainbow pro-gay sign, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe.
If you post the Family Proc, even at BYU, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe, AND you are driving kids to suicide.

I find it hard to believe that posting the proclamation at BYU is hateful.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:58 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:51 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:47 am The attitude today, even at BYU, is that if you take down a rainbow pro-gay sign, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe.
If you post the Family Proc, even at BYU, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe, AND you are driving kids to suicide.

I find it hard to believe that posting the proclamation at BYU is hateful.

Believe it! This is what the open homosexuals who are "worthy in every way!" b/c don't "act on it" preach! This is what leftist Bishops and Stake Presidents have been preaching.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 10:55 am I think the name "Diversity Choir" should clue you in . .. your white son ain't wanted. It is what it is.

abijah` wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:19 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 10:55 am I think the name "Diversity Choir" should clue you in . .. your white son ain't wanted. It is what it is.

why is there even a "diversity choir" performing at all?!?

am i supposed to hear "diversity is our strength" from the church too now, really?

abijah` wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:19 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 10:55 am I think the name "Diversity Choir" should clue you in . .. your white son ain't wanted. It is what it is.

why is there even a "diversity choir" performing at all?!?

am i supposed to hear "diversity is our strength" from the church too now, really?

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:55 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:46 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:36 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:24 am

It is true, I do not interact with this stuff nor am I in the college scene.

I’m just pointing out logic and it sounds from what your saying, there wasn’t a chance anyways.

To continue with my intent here, if the straight people were called all those names and hated and whatever else then so what...do it anyways. Standing up in righteousness (for something good, done respectfully) the why back down? Maybe it’s the weakness within more than the opposition without that is the problem.

Why not start now? Claim equal treatment. Eventually someone’s got to stop being bullied and be willing to stand up for what is right even if they are hated, right?

You are correct. There is always a chance. Even as slim as a chance as it is now-there is still a chance.

But your last 2 paragraphs hit the core of it. Unless people do as you say then there is absolutely no chance. There has been for waaaaaay too long a complacency inside the Church. "Follow the prophets", thy won't led you astray, just stay in the boat, don't agitate, just sit down, be obedient and all will be well.

What happened is that everyone neglected their own personal duty and responsibility. It wasn't their job to fight wickedness, it was someone else's job, they didn't need to stand up and combat evil ideologies in their own wards and stakes, that was the Bishop's job or the Stake Pres. job. It is too hard to stand up, I'd rather just be quite and not take any flak b/c it's nice being comfortable. It is the actual fulfillment of the wheat and the tares. The men (i.e. the Priesthood, who's duty it is to do this stuff) slept while the enemy sowed tares.

I just hope people realize that the stakes for taking a stand today are MUCH, MUCH higher than they were 4-5 years ago. If you decide to take a stand, you will potentially risk much, your livelihood is almost certainly going to be on the line. And if it gets bad enough (and it just might) even your own life and the life of your family. People need to understand that.

We must have faith and remember that traditional folks way way outnumber the gays and even the evil possessed ones in this country.

Sadly, I do not believe you are correct. I used to think this way, but from my experience it simply is not.

It is a hard thing to recognize, but traditional folks do NOT outnumber the homosexuals and their allies, we just simply don't anymore. Until traditional folks get that through their heads, they will not understand nor comprehend what is going on.

Everything makes sense, when you simply realize the traditionalists are now in the minority.

Serragon wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:22 pm If you haven't heard that from the Church over the last few years, you haven't been listening.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:58 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:51 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:47 am The attitude today, even at BYU, is that if you take down a rainbow pro-gay sign, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe.
If you post the Family Proc, even at BYU, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe, AND you are driving kids to suicide.

I find it hard to believe that posting the proclamation at BYU is hateful.

Believe it! This is what the open homosexuals who are "worthy in every way!" b/c don't "act on it" preach! This is what leftist Bishops and Stake Presidents have been preaching.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:28 pmDo you have anything convincing on this matter? I thought the gay population was originally a mere 1-2% (similar to schizophrenics) and had gone up to 10-15% lately. Still small numbers.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:28 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:55 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:46 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:36 am
You are correct. There is always a chance. Even as slim as a chance as it is now-there is still a chance.

But your last 2 paragraphs hit the core of it. Unless people do as you say then there is absolutely no chance. There has been for waaaaaay too long a complacency inside the Church. "Follow the prophets", thy won't led you astray, just stay in the boat, don't agitate, just sit down, be obedient and all will be well.

What happened is that everyone neglected their own personal duty and responsibility. It wasn't their job to fight wickedness, it was someone else's job, they didn't need to stand up and combat evil ideologies in their own wards and stakes, that was the Bishop's job or the Stake Pres. job. It is too hard to stand up, I'd rather just be quite and not take any flak b/c it's nice being comfortable. It is the actual fulfillment of the wheat and the tares. The men (i.e. the Priesthood, who's duty it is to do this stuff) slept while the enemy sowed tares.

I just hope people realize that the stakes for taking a stand today are MUCH, MUCH higher than they were 4-5 years ago. If you decide to take a stand, you will potentially risk much, your livelihood is almost certainly going to be on the line. And if it gets bad enough (and it just might) even your own life and the life of your family. People need to understand that.

We must have faith and remember that traditional folks way way outnumber the gays and even the evil possessed ones in this country.

Sadly, I do not believe you are correct. I used to think this way, but from my experience it simply is not.

It is a hard thing to recognize, but traditional folks do NOT outnumber the homosexuals and their allies, we just simply don't anymore. Until traditional folks get that through their heads, they will not understand nor comprehend what is going on.

Everything makes sense, when you simply realize the traditionalists are now in the minority.

Do you have anything convincing on this matter? I thought the gay population was originally a mere 1-2% (similar to schizophrenics) and had gone up to 10-15% lately. Still small numbers.

abijah` wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:33 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:28 pmDo you have anything convincing on this matter? I thought the gay population was originally a mere 1-2% (similar to schizophrenics) and had gone up to 10-15% lately. Still small numbers.

in my opinion its not that theyre necessarily more numerous, just hyper-vocal and possessing a disproportionate amount of social & political clout.

their allies are not few in number and are quickly surging, even in places such as byu

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:31 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:58 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:51 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:47 am The attitude today, even at BYU, is that if you take down a rainbow pro-gay sign, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe.
If you post the Family Proc, even at BYU, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe, AND you are driving kids to suicide.

I find it hard to believe that posting the proclamation at BYU is hateful.

Believe it! This is what the open homosexuals who are "worthy in every way!" b/c don't "act on it" preach! This is what leftist Bishops and Stake Presidents have been preaching.

The leadership can’t find it hateful or we as a church would have ripped it up.

I understand the gays find it hateful. Zero understanding how any sitting bishop or stake president or higher up could believe the proclamation is hatred and remain in their position. Makes no sense. None of the gay agenda makes sense to me, lol.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:35 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:28 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:55 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:46 am
We must have faith and remember that traditional folks way way outnumber the gays and even the evil possessed ones in this country.

Sadly, I do not believe you are correct. I used to think this way, but from my experience it simply is not.

It is a hard thing to recognize, but traditional folks do NOT outnumber the homosexuals and their allies, we just simply don't anymore. Until traditional folks get that through their heads, they will not understand nor comprehend what is going on.

Everything makes sense, when you simply realize the traditionalists are now in the minority.

Do you have anything convincing on this matter? I thought the gay population was originally a mere 1-2% (similar to schizophrenics) and had gone up to 10-15% lately. Still small numbers.

You are correct about the LGBTQ+ population. That was not what I was referring to. I was referring the the LGBTQ+ population + their allies (i.e. those who believe the LGBTQ+ should live as they were "meant" to live).

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:31 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:58 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:51 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:47 am The attitude today, even at BYU, is that if you take down a rainbow pro-gay sign, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe.
If you post the Family Proc, even at BYU, you are a hateful bigoted homophobe, AND you are driving kids to suicide.

I find it hard to believe that posting the proclamation at BYU is hateful.

Believe it! This is what the open homosexuals who are "worthy in every way!" b/c don't "act on it" preach! This is what leftist Bishops and Stake Presidents have been preaching.

The leadership can’t find it hateful or we as a church would have ripped it up.

I understand the gays find it hateful. Zero understanding how any sitting bishop or stake president or higher up could believe the proclamation is hatred and remain in their position. Makes no sense. None of the gay agenda makes sense to me, lol.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:40 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:35 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:28 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 11:55 am
Sadly, I do not believe you are correct. I used to think this way, but from my experience it simply is not.

It is a hard thing to recognize, but traditional folks do NOT outnumber the homosexuals and their allies, we just simply don't anymore. Until traditional folks get that through their heads, they will not understand nor comprehend what is going on.

Everything makes sense, when you simply realize the traditionalists are now in the minority.

Do you have anything convincing on this matter? I thought the gay population was originally a mere 1-2% (similar to schizophrenics) and had gone up to 10-15% lately. Still small numbers.

You are correct about the LGBTQ+ population. That was not what I was referring to. I was referring the the LGBTQ+ population + their allies (i.e. those who believe the LGBTQ+ should live as they were "meant" to live).

Lol, leave it LDS folks to imprint a statement like that. “Meant to live”. Lol. God created me gay so it’s not bad....lol.

Well, God created me with all sorts of weaknesses but he doesn’t intend that I embrace them and say he condones it.

Man, this logic and reasoning if applied by everyone with whatever “thing” would result in total annihilation of the human species.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:45 pm I 110% agree with you! When you dig into their logic behind "just love" or "love is love" it all falls apart. But somehow a lot of members have bought it.

abijah` wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:51 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 12:45 pm I 110% agree with you! When you dig into their logic behind "just love" or "love is love" it all falls apart. But somehow a lot of members have bought it.

in the end, "love is love" is just a terse, empty statement, unable to withstand any real scrutiny.