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Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 6:47 pm
by johnBob
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
The rationalization is pretty impressive.

That's what you will say when you see homosexuals in the Church dating, holding hands and kissing. They are allowed but not authorized . . .so so sad.
That's the same type of crap that will be said when homosexuals are "allowed" to marry in the Church-hey guys look it's "allowed" but not authorized-it's just not punished. And that is what will happen with Temples-yeah guys it's "allowed' but not 'authorized".

Do people really not even hear themselves?

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 6:48 pm
by johnBob
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
So, just looking the other way?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke.

All of this just makes me so sad.
Exactly and then people watch Veggie Tales . . .a cartoon for pete's sake! And get "inspiration" from God while watching a cartoon show made for children! Instead of deeply searching their scriptures. Are we really so far from God's voice in modernity that we look for His voice in cartoon shows and movies.

We were having dinner with the missionaries recently and one of them said "force push" when talking about missionary work. I just about died. I've seen missionary homecoming posters with the sister dressed in spiderman garb. Goodness people, get off the couch stop watching shows that were designed to pervert God's word and actually read it.

It would be so funny, if it weren't so sad . . . .

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 6:53 pm
by DesertWonderer2
johnBob wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:48 pm
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
So, just looking the other way?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke.

All of this just makes me so sad.
Exactly and then people watch Veggie Tales . . .a cartoon for pete's sake! And get "inspiration" from God while watching a cartoon show made for children! Instead of deeply searching their scriptures. Are we really so far from God's voice in modernity that we look for His voice in cartoon shows and movies.

We were having dinner with the missionaries recently and one of them said "force push" when talking about missionary work. I just about died. I've seen missionary homecoming posters with the sister dressed in spiderman garb. Goodness people, get off the couch stop watching shows that were designed to pervert God's word and actually read it.

It would be so funny, if it weren't so sad . . . .
What is “force push” as it relates to missionary work?

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 6:57 pm
by johnBob
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:53 pm
johnBob wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:48 pm
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm

No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
So, just looking the other way?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke.

All of this just makes me so sad.
Exactly and then people watch Veggie Tales . . .a cartoon for pete's sake! And get "inspiration" from God while watching a cartoon show made for children! Instead of deeply searching their scriptures. Are we really so far from God's voice in modernity that we look for His voice in cartoon shows and movies.

We were having dinner with the missionaries recently and one of them said "force push" when talking about missionary work. I just about died. I've seen missionary homecoming posters with the sister dressed in spiderman garb. Goodness people, get off the couch stop watching shows that were designed to pervert God's word and actually read it.

It would be so funny, if it weren't so sad . . . .
What is “force push” as it relates to missionary work?
She made some insane comment about how we shouldn't "force push" the gospel on people. Force push-some Star Wars reference, basically attempting to say we can't force the gospel on people-except you know force push was actually controlling things. It was just stupid-but this was the same sister who was gleeful and almost jumping out of her seat thinking that she might get the Priesthood after GC.

Of course we get the whole, you need to feed the missionary mantra at the ward. We used to have the missionaries over all the time, but since they dropped the age we have really stopped having them over.

They never get to dinner on time, I'm not talking 5 min. late, but 30+ minutes late or they call at the very last minute-"hey can you pick us up for dinner'. Nope sorry guys, you need to learn how to be responsible adults. If you want dinners learn how to show up on time and prepare ahead of time if you need a ride.

Of course all the missionaries now repeat the mantra, "we don't door knock anymore b/c it's not effective''. Yeah, so you guys don't knock doors, you're late, you can't plan ahead of time . . .so what exactly do you do all day? Whenever you are late, you never have a reasonable reason, it's just "sorry we are late". At least if we were late 20+ years ago, it was b/c we had just run from a really awesome appointment 2 miles away and we would be redfaced from the exercise.

I almost get the impression for most of these missionaries now adays that it's just a big vacation-no real work, no real hard work, they didn't pay for their mission, mommy and daddy did, just kind of a big vacation to go live in some part of the world you've never been and goof off. They just appear to be a bunch of slackers. I call it like I see it.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 7:03 pm
by Believing Joseph
johnBob wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:48 pm Exactly and then people watch Veggie Tales . . .a cartoon for pete's sake! And get "inspiration" from God while watching a cartoon show made for children! Instead of deeply searching their scriptures. Are we really so far from God's voice in modernity that we look for His voice in cartoon shows and movies.

We were having dinner with the missionaries recently and one of them said "force push" when talking about missionary work. I just about died. I've seen missionary homecoming posters with the sister dressed in spiderman garb. Goodness people, get off the couch stop watching shows that were designed to pervert God's word and actually read it.

It would be so funny, if it weren't so sad . . .
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 7:05 pm
by johnBob
Believing Joseph wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 7:03 pm
johnBob wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:48 pm Exactly and then people watch Veggie Tales . . .a cartoon for pete's sake! And get "inspiration" from God while watching a cartoon show made for children! Instead of deeply searching their scriptures. Are we really so far from God's voice in modernity that we look for His voice in cartoon shows and movies.

We were having dinner with the missionaries recently and one of them said "force push" when talking about missionary work. I just about died. I've seen missionary homecoming posters with the sister dressed in spiderman garb. Goodness people, get off the couch stop watching shows that were designed to pervert God's word and actually read it.

It would be so funny, if it weren't so sad . . .
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
This is the way the world ends.
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Plagues will get us first.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 7:19 pm
by LukeAir2008
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
That’s a distinction without a difference. If something is allowed then it’s unofficially authorised.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 7:24 pm
by Lizzy60
LukeAir2008 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 7:19 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
That’s a distinction without a difference. If something is allowed then it’s unofficially authorised.
Yeah, like two guys locking lips are gonna care is their kissing is allowed or authorized.
Like, I'm okay watching them if it's authorized, but offended if it's only allowed???? Not!!!!

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 8:19 pm
by ori
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
So, just looking the other way?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke.

All of this just makes me so sad.
It makes me sad too.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 8:22 pm
by ori
johnBob wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:48 pm
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:22 pm
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
No, the acts you speak of are not "authorized". They are simply not punished. They are allowed, but not "authorized".
So, just looking the other way?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke.

All of this just makes me so sad.
Exactly and then people watch Veggie Tales . . .a cartoon for pete's sake! And get "inspiration" from God while watching a cartoon show made for children! Instead of deeply searching their scriptures. Are we really so far from God's voice in modernity that we look for His voice in cartoon shows and movies.

We were having dinner with the missionaries recently and one of them said "force push" when talking about missionary work. I just about died. I've seen missionary homecoming posters with the sister dressed in spiderman garb. Goodness people, get off the couch stop watching shows that were designed to pervert God's word and actually read it.

It would be so funny, if it weren't so sad . . . .
I wasn’t watching it. It was on in the other room. I was prayerfully pondering the church’s leadership of the LGBT situation.

You’re not being kind. I claim that God is merciful and loves His children and you poke fun at it. Let’s not act like those in the great and spacious building.

God does not and will never approve of homosexual sin. But He really loves all of His children.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 8:26 pm
by ori
“Force push” could also be a programming reference. If you care to understand it, you can google “git force push”.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm
by mahalanobis
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:26 pm “Force push” could also be a programming reference. If you care to understand it, you can google “git force push”.
#rebase
You know that's right. Lol.

That makes sense. Missionaries code all the time, right? Best P-day ever.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 9:33 pm
by Zathura
mahalanobis wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:26 pm “Force push” could also be a programming reference. If you care to understand it, you can google “git force push”.
#rebase
You know that's right. Lol.

That makes sense. Missionaries code all the time, right? Best P-day ever.
That'd be awesome.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 9:39 pm
by mahalanobis
Zathura wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:33 pm
mahalanobis wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:26 pm “Force push” could also be a programming reference. If you care to understand it, you can google “git force push”.
#rebase
You know that's right. Lol.

That makes sense. Missionaries code all the time, right? Best P-day ever.
That'd be awesome.
I almost made a joke about the church changing history, but the pun was just not coming together right in my head lol.

So I had to 'stash' the joke.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 9:43 pm
by Zathura
mahalanobis wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:39 pm
Zathura wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:33 pm
mahalanobis wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:26 pm “Force push” could also be a programming reference. If you care to understand it, you can google “git force push”.
#rebase
You know that's right. Lol.

That makes sense. Missionaries code all the time, right? Best P-day ever.
That'd be awesome.
I almost made a joke about the church changing history, but the pun was just not coming together right in my head lol.

So I had to 'stash' the joke.
Haha keep em comin :lol:

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 9:44 pm
by sandman45
Zathura wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:37 am Imagine believing Adam God theory and blood atonement are somehow true.
Adam God theory is false doctrine. However the Adam God Doctrine is true and what Joseph taught.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 9:47 pm
by Zathura
sandman45 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 9:44 pm
Zathura wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:37 am Imagine believing Adam God theory and blood atonement are somehow true.
Adam God theory is false doctrine. However the Adam God Doctrine is true and what Joseph taught.
I do recall a long thread that you either started or controlled from like 2014 or 2015. I oughta go revisit it.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 10:10 pm
by sandman45
ori wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:26 pm “Force push” could also be a programming reference. If you care to understand it, you can google “git force push”.
And it’s something you normally don’t do. Because it will usually screw things up lol

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 23rd, 2020, 11:48 pm
by Matchmaker
DesertWonderer2 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 6:41 pm
Matchmaker wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 5:37 am I decided a long time ago that I would sustain the Prophet and the Apostles and accept any new changes (inspiration or revelation) in Church policy that were instituted during the current Prophet's time as President of the Church. I'm not saying it has always been easy for me, but it has been simpler. I have a testimony that the Lord knows what is going on and is in charge of His Church, and I will follow him and accept these new changes as inspiration and revelation.
A little about me before I make my comment: I’m as active as you can get—was FT missionary , sealed in the temple, active my whole life, multiple times EQ prez, multiple bishoprics, temple worker, etc...

SADLY, the church is being less and less lead by inspiration and more and more being lead by church lawyers and by capitulating to changing cultural norms :(

A perfect example of this is the change to the 2015 gays’ children policy—this change was NOT the Lord’s will. Another example is this appeasing of the gays with the the HC and Handbook eliminations of “homosexual behaviors” clauses. So gays can date and do anything a heterosexual couple could do while dating except actually have sex and still not violate the HC or moral laws of the gosple. Huh?!?!

Both of these examples are nothing more than compromise. Compromise by definition is a partial abandonment of a moral position. The church is compromising its moral position but why?

Inspiration? Ineptitude? Just trying anything to keep the millennial snowflakes from leaving the church? Bad advice from the lawyers and psychologists advising the leaders? God is fine with gay people engaging in homosexual behaviors? Perhaps its a test to see if we will obey no matter what? They just can’t take the heat from the haters and give in? Naively the leaders think that if they give in a little the haters and purveyors of evil will be satisfied?

For crying out loud, a few years ago we were excommunicating women who wanted the priesthood and now we are falling all over ourselves trying to tell them that they have its power and it seems that we are on trajectory to be ordaining women at this rate.

Look, they are good men doing their best, and they do have the priesthood authority. I have only been in the presence of 1 of the current living 15. The Spirit bore witness to me at that time that he was a true apostle in every sense of the word. Having said that, it is also clear that the current leadership is the worst that it has been in my lifetime. I’d rather not give a list of examples as it’s just too depressing. Maybe that is simply a reflection of the quality / faithfulness of the members? In which case, we have no one to blame but ourselves because of our own disobedience to God’s laws :(

One of the signs of the last days is the following: Rev 8:1
“And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.”

I honestly hate saying the following: Based on all that has transpired within the church over the last few yrs, it appears that we are in the silence in heavens period. Meaning the heavens / revelation has ceased to the church at large and the leaders are on their own for better or for worse :(
I too think it is a test and part of the sifting. I guess time will tell. Just like the early very moral Church members had to deal with polygamy, which was difficult for most of them, and I'm sure many left the Church because of it. We are being asked to follow the Prophet in this case. He's either the Prophet, and he leads the Lord's Church, or he isn't. All of us will have a chance to choose in our hearts and sustain him at General Conference, or not. The choice is ours and so are the consequences of our choices.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 24th, 2020, 12:00 am
by LukeAir2008
I would be careful about believing that anything that promotes or supports wickedness has come from God.

God has said in Scripture that he cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. So we know where God stands in these matters.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 24th, 2020, 2:35 am
by diligently seeking
Mike Griffith wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 2:15 pm This is not apostasy. I think this falls under the Lord's counsel to be wise as serpents and innocent as lambs. This is a very wise, tactical move.

I think we need to keep in mind that gays constitute a very small minority in the U.S. as a whole, and an even smaller minority in the Church.

Gay students will still be subject to every rule that normal students are required to follow, and if they break those rules, they can be suspended or expelled.

I believe that the fear that this will lead to same-sex temple weddings is unfounded. There is no slippery slope here. The Church has been emphatic and clear that genuine temple marriage can only be between a man and a woman, and they are never going to abandon that truth.

Now, I could actually see a scenario, an unlikely but possible scenario, where 10 years from now the government would threaten the Church with prosecution if it did not allow same-sex temple weddings. And I would not be shocked if the Church, in order to survive, bent to that threat and allowed such sealings. But they would not be valid sealings. They would have no force in the next life. They would be repudiated by the Lord as false ceremonies that were done under coercion and threat of destruction. But allowing them would allow the Church to continue to function openly and allow temples to continue to operate. The number of gay temple weddings would most likely amount to a small fraction of temple weddings. Most temple patrons probably would never see a gay couple in the temple. Again, I think this scenario is unlikely, but possible.

“Lovest Thou me more than these?” asked the Lord to Peter.

Truth inspired from heaven has away of steeling our convictions vs crumbling / compromising. I see the church compromising because there is a form of godliness but the power / truth that sustained Peter and the like ”Light and truth”(the actual reception / gift of the Holy Ghost) is missing. The Lord promised us and warned us In D&C 93:


1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am...

...19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.
20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.
21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;
22 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn.
23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;
27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.
28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.
32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.
35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.
36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.
37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.
38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.
39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.
40 But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 24th, 2020, 5:08 am
by diligently seeking
The book of Jude
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called (having received light and truth / baptism of fire and the baptism of the holy ghost)
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. (Such expressions represent Our tolerance level for activity that is contrary to the sanctification that comes once one receives the H.G. In other words—-don’t compromise that which maintains sanctification before the Lord...)
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm
by Allison
This may not be popular, but here goes:

What might happen if a couple of men came to church holding hands and giving each other little pecks. If the bishop went to them and asked them to refrain, and if they didn’t obey the bishop, imagine what might happen if they were asked to leave, or worse yet, made to leave. Might they have grounds for a civil rights lawsuit? With the common knowledge of the Church’s net worth it seems that we were put in check and the Brethren just had to make their next move.

Imagine gays agreeing to attend wards all over the US and then starting a class action lawsuit. Sometimes you even have to sacrifice a bishop or the queen just to stay in the game. It’s not a checkmate, not yet, anyway.

Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 24th, 2020, 12:55 pm
by Serragon
Allison wrote: February 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm This may not be popular, but here goes:

What might happen if a couple of men came to church holding hands and giving each other little pecks. If the bishop went to them and asked them to refrain, and if they didn’t obey the bishop, imagine what might happen if they were asked to leave, or worse yet, made to leave. Might they have grounds for a civil rights lawsuit? With the common knowledge of the Church’s net worth it seems that we were put in check and the Brethren just had to make their next move.

Imagine gays agreeing to attend wards all over the US and then starting a class action lawsuit. Sometimes you even have to sacrifice a bishop or the queen just to stay in the game. It’s not a checkmate, not yet, anyway.

Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming.
What you are suggesting is that the brethren might think it more important to avoid negative publicity and potential lawsuits than it is to stand for truth and righteousness.

The church is nothing more than a tool. If that tool no longer works in the current environment, then create a tool than can work. But never elevate the tool above the purpose for which it was created. We should never accept falsehoods that will damn people to hell so that the organization can continue to exist.

I would rather belong to an impoverished, destitute, and unpopular Church that stands for truth than a prosperous, popular church that sacrifices truth when inconvenient.

Re: Gay Dating and Open Homosexual Acts Allowed @ BYU

Posted: February 24th, 2020, 1:14 pm
by oneClimbs
investigator wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 4:46 am BYU Honor Code Officials confirm gay dating and open homosexual acts are now authorized on BYU campus.

https://youtu.be/p4gTHBP-Vv4
This video is a great example of an individual seeking to creatively inject their own ideas into a policy that says nothing about what they are promoting.

This creates a vision in my mind where people are walking along the path to the iron rod and someone says, LOOK! Look at this other trail over here, there's no sign that says that this way doesn't lead to the tree of life, so how about we give it a shot! There's no warning so there's no problem! Yay!

There's absolutely no doctrinal foundation for the idea of same-sex marriage or relationships in God's plan. The path and rod for man and woman united as a single being is set out right in the beginning of creation. Along with that is the doctrine that we are to sacrifice to be obedient to the commandments of God. We sacrifice our own desires, intentions, and whatever fleshy desires pull us away from where God would have us go. Nobody is above another person, the same standards are expected from all of us no matter how easy or hard they are for any individual. Obviously some things are waaaaay harder for some individuals than others, but where is there a doctrine of exceptions for individuals just because the pull of their flesh is too difficult to manage?

If you are encouraging people to disregard a firmly established doctrinal foundation and disregard obedience to God's commandments and yield to the flesh, you are demanding that they build their house on sand. We know how that all ends.