LDS Freedom Forum

Serragon wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Allison wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm This may not be popular, but here goes:

What might happen if a couple of men came to church holding hands and giving each other little pecks. If the bishop went to them and asked them to refrain, and if they didn’t obey the bishop, imagine what might happen if they were asked to leave, or worse yet, made to leave. Might they have grounds for a civil rights lawsuit? With the common knowledge of the Church’s net worth it seems that we were put in check and the Brethren just had to make their next move.

Imagine gays agreeing to attend wards all over the US and then starting a class action lawsuit. Sometimes you even have to sacrifice a bishop or the queen just to stay in the game. It’s not a checkmate, not yet, anyway.

Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming.

What you are suggesting is that the brethren might think it more important to avoid negative publicity and potential lawsuits than it is to stand for truth and righteousness.

The church is nothing more than a tool. If that tool no longer works in the current environment, then create a tool than can work. But never elevate the tool above the purpose for which it was created. We should never accept falsehoods that will damn people to hell so that the organization can continue to exist.

I would rather belong to an impoverished, destitute, and unpopular Church that stands for truth than a prosperous, popular church that sacrifices truth when inconvenient.

Allison wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 1:22 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Allison wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm This may not be popular, but here goes:

What might happen if a couple of men came to church holding hands and giving each other little pecks. If the bishop went to them and asked them to refrain, and if they didn’t obey the bishop, imagine what might happen if they were asked to leave, or worse yet, made to leave. Might they have grounds for a civil rights lawsuit? With the common knowledge of the Church’s net worth it seems that we were put in check and the Brethren just had to make their next move.

Imagine gays agreeing to attend wards all over the US and then starting a class action lawsuit. Sometimes you even have to sacrifice a bishop or the queen just to stay in the game. It’s not a checkmate, not yet, anyway.

Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming.

What you are suggesting is that the brethren might think it more important to avoid negative publicity and potential lawsuits than it is to stand for truth and righteousness.

The church is nothing more than a tool. If that tool no longer works in the current environment, then create a tool than can work. But never elevate the tool above the purpose for which it was created. We should never accept falsehoods that will damn people to hell so that the organization can continue to exist.

I would rather belong to an impoverished, destitute, and unpopular Church that stands for truth than a prosperous, popular church that sacrifices truth when inconvenient.

You could be right. I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. It could very well be that their mission is larger than going broke and fizzling. I don’t know.

We can do like some of the stalwart Catholics who don’t like at all what the Pope has been saying, but they just steadfastly stay in the fight on a personal, local level. We can always do what is right And let the consequence follow.

Serragon wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Allison wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm This may not be popular, but here goes:

What might happen if a couple of men came to church holding hands and giving each other little pecks. If the bishop went to them and asked them to refrain, and if they didn’t obey the bishop, imagine what might happen if they were asked to leave, or worse yet, made to leave. Might they have grounds for a civil rights lawsuit? With the common knowledge of the Church’s net worth it seems that we were put in check and the Brethren just had to make their next move.

Imagine gays agreeing to attend wards all over the US and then starting a class action lawsuit. Sometimes you even have to sacrifice a bishop or the queen just to stay in the game. It’s not a checkmate, not yet, anyway.

Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming.

What you are suggesting is that the brethren might think it more important to avoid negative publicity and potential lawsuits than it is to stand for truth and righteousness.

The church is nothing more than a tool. If that tool no longer works in the current environment, then create a tool than can work. But never elevate the tool above the purpose for which it was created. We should never accept falsehoods that will damn people to hell so that the organization can continue to exist.

I would rather belong to an impoverished, destitute, and unpopular Church that stands for truth than a prosperous, popular church that sacrifices truth when inconvenient.

Serragon wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 2:22 pm

Allison wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 1:22 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Allison wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 12:42 pm This may not be popular, but here goes:

What might happen if a couple of men came to church holding hands and giving each other little pecks. If the bishop went to them and asked them to refrain, and if they didn’t obey the bishop, imagine what might happen if they were asked to leave, or worse yet, made to leave. Might they have grounds for a civil rights lawsuit? With the common knowledge of the Church’s net worth it seems that we were put in check and the Brethren just had to make their next move.

Imagine gays agreeing to attend wards all over the US and then starting a class action lawsuit. Sometimes you even have to sacrifice a bishop or the queen just to stay in the game. It’s not a checkmate, not yet, anyway.

Hopefully there will be some clarification forthcoming.

What you are suggesting is that the brethren might think it more important to avoid negative publicity and potential lawsuits than it is to stand for truth and righteousness.

The church is nothing more than a tool. If that tool no longer works in the current environment, then create a tool than can work. But never elevate the tool above the purpose for which it was created. We should never accept falsehoods that will damn people to hell so that the organization can continue to exist.

I would rather belong to an impoverished, destitute, and unpopular Church that stands for truth than a prosperous, popular church that sacrifices truth when inconvenient.

You could be right. I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. It could very well be that their mission is larger than going broke and fizzling. I don’t know.

We can do like some of the stalwart Catholics who don’t like at all what the Pope has been saying, but they just steadfastly stay in the fight on a personal, local level. We can always do what is right And let the consequence follow.

I appreciate you giving our leaders the benefit of the doubt. I am still a member of this church and just recently sustained them in our ward conference. I hope I am missing something here.

But I have pondered this greatly. The change in our attitudes in homosexuality, the change in the covenant for the Law of Obedience, and some of the policy changes regarding safety and security leave me feeling like the tool existence has become more important than the tool's ability to save souls.

If the church cannot operate in the modern world without being persecuted to the point of no longer being able to function, then it is time to organize it differently so that it can. If that means de-centralizing and getting back to a very simple meetings and structure then so be it. but I am not comfortable with the attempt to maintain the church in its current form at the expense of true doctrine and if it requires us to embrace sin.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:27 am That's the most insane thing that members inside the Church can't see. In today's modern world, nobody is going to believe that the Church just happened to now have a revelation that homosexuals can date, etc.

Prophets should lead not follow the world...

You know I do hate to say it, b/c I'd rather it not be the case, but those prophets who allow people to indulge in homosexual behavior, they are false prophets. That's the only way to square it up. Anything else leads to mental gymnastics that I'm not willing to even start to try to justify.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 6:36 am From Mormons Building Bridges:

"There is an email set up for those who want to give feedback on LGBT stuff including the new Handbook changes. Happy holy hell raising!"

[email protected]

investigator wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 3:30 am It seems that the video went missing from YouTube. Imagine that. Here is an updated link for those who didn’t get to see it...

https://youtu.be/vsePC54PWVk

Luke wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 6:39 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 6:36 am From Mormons Building Bridges:

"There is an email set up for those who want to give feedback on LGBT stuff including the new Handbook changes. Happy holy hell raising!"

[email protected]

Everyone mass complain. Someone devise an complaint and we'll all copy, paste and send it to that email address.

Then maybe, just maybe, the chances of them listening will be ever so slightly increased.

Sunain wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 7:28 am I will definitely send an email. Just working on it. If they read it, okay, if they don't, well at least I did my part.

oneClimbs wrote: ↑February 24th, 2020, 1:14 pm If you are encouraging people to disregard a firmly established doctrinal foundation and disregard obedience to God's commandments and yield to the flesh, you are demanding that they build their house on sand. We know how that all ends.

Luke wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 6:39 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 6:36 am From Mormons Building Bridges:

"There is an email set up for those who want to give feedback on LGBT stuff including the new Handbook changes. Happy holy hell raising!"

[email protected]

Everyone mass complain. Someone devise an complaint and we'll all copy, paste and send it to that email address.

Then maybe, just maybe, the chances of them listening will be ever so slightly increased.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 7:01 am

investigator wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 3:30 am It seems that the video went missing from YouTube. Imagine that. Here is an updated link for those who didn’t get to see it...

https://youtu.be/vsePC54PWVk

“If you make homophobic comments, now YOU will be in trouble at BYU.” ????

That is the mentality of BYU teachers?? Sick! Mentally disturbed.
I’m definitely not supporting my kids going to BYU, even though I am alumni. And he even tries to accuse anyone who doesn’t support homosexual behavior to be against the church leaders and therefore not having a testimony? What???? Is a testimony of God based on men???? Especially those who go against basic godly principles? Of course not! My God is God, not church leaders, not BYU dishonor code.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 7:01 am

investigator wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 3:30 am It seems that the video went missing from YouTube. Imagine that. Here is an updated link for those who didn’t get to see it...

https://youtu.be/vsePC54PWVk

“If you make homophobic comments, now YOU will be in trouble at BYU.” ????

That is the mentality of BYU teachers?? Sick! Mentally disturbed.
I’m definitely not supporting my kids going to BYU, even though I am alumni. And he even tries to accuse anyone who doesn’t support homosexual behavior to be against the church leaders and therefore not having a testimony? What???? Is a testimony of God based on men???? Especially those who go against basic godly principles? Of course not! My God is God, not church leaders, not BYU dishonor code.

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:47 pm

sandman45 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:44 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 8:37 am Imagine believing Adam God theory and blood atonement are somehow true.

Adam God theory is false doctrine. However the Adam God Doctrine is true and what Joseph taught.

I do recall a long thread that you either started or controlled from like 2014 or 2015. I oughta go revisit it.

anonymous91 wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 10:13 pm Since the author of that video removed my posts, and all of the comments. I have decided to make a post here that can help people that are struggling with this. This is also an effort for those that have friends and family that struggle with this.

I want to create a resource that we can explain in a meaningful way why acting on SSA is wrong. Why allowing two men, or two women to date is against God's will. This includes holding hands, or showing other PDA"s. Why this is harmful, etc.

Just an update. I've been doing a ton of research to do a deep dive into this nonsense.

Once I finish with the research I want to talk about this in a constructive way. The idea is to first:

1- Educate those that are either supporting LGBT or living this lifestyle. Also, I think it's good to understand some of the science behind the arguments, and why the arguments are nonsense.

I am amazed about how much truth is out there. It's a pain to find, but it's there.

2- Expose the lies: "God made me gay", "I'm gay I can't Change", "Being Gay isn't a sin"

- I plan on including how LGBT community is weaponizing this sin against Christians.

- What Desensitization, Jamming, and Conversion have to do with making homosexuality PC correct, and why we should all be worried.

- Exposing the arguments that are being used, and how to constructively answer questions. (I.e. Misdirection, jamming words, personal attacks, gaslighting, etc.)

- Point out the difference between those that are struggling with SSA feelings, and are being fed lies by the LGBT community at large. Most people are being duped, they are like lambs being led to the slaughter. However, the LGBT organization is purposefully leading people astray and know exactly what they are doing. I want to point this out and shine a light on this.

3- Show how supporting the LGBT lifestyle is very dangerous, and why it will destroy lives, religion, and health.

- This includes all sexual sins and perversions (fornication, adultery, porn, masturbation, pederasty, pedophilia, etc.)
- The health issues, stats (STD's, Cancer, etc.)
- The Victim Mentality. What is it? How do we overcome it?

4- Talking about something I just came across in my research that no one really talks about, which I really want to get people's opinion on. It is commonly referred to as intersex, which is different than "transsexual". There is very little direction given that I have yet to find (at least when religion is concerned).

- I'll explain what I have currently found out about this and what my personal thoughts are, and would welcome feedback. This is something that is not really discussed. This is a group that I can genuinely feel empathy for.

5- What solutions there are for overcoming Homosexuality. I think that it is very important that people who struggle with a sexual sin, have a path to get out of it. I don't find it helpful to be told that God made you this way, and you can't change it. That's nonsense.

- A key to completely healing from this is by turning to Christ. It is through Christ that we can overcome all sin.
- What science has found works, and why. That through the grace of Christ we are saved, and how that applies to us. What that means. So a deep dive into this too.

That is a starting point so far. This has become an issue that needs to be addressed. If any of you have any research, references or further ideas for this topic, please send it my way. Any thoughts, additional topics, ideas would also be appreciated.

It may take me a bit to get everything together, but I hope to make a post about it soon.

Trucker wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 10:35 am

Thinker wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 7:01 am

investigator wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 3:30 am It seems that the video went missing from YouTube. Imagine that. Here is an updated link for those who didn’t get to see it...

https://youtu.be/vsePC54PWVk

“If you make homophobic comments, now YOU will be in trouble at BYU.” ????

That is the mentality of BYU teachers?? Sick! Mentally disturbed.
I’m definitely not supporting my kids going to BYU, even though I am alumni. And he even tries to accuse anyone who doesn’t support homosexual behavior to be against the church leaders and therefore not having a testimony? What???? Is a testimony of God based on men???? Especially those who go against basic godly principles? Of course not! My God is God, not church leaders, not BYU dishonor code.

I hadn't watched the video until just now. WOW. It's in the Trib now too: https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2 ... -this-byu/

I can't believe how he turns it around on people and says we have to be more Christlike, they did you a favor, you can now be investigated for disparaging remarks against homosexual behavior on campus, and people who don't like this have weak testimonies and aren't supporting the apostles (he said this!). And he called the Honor Code Office and asked the question about gay dating and said he was going to tell his 1200 students what they said, and they said it's not against the Honor Code.

BYU will go the way of the Boy Scouts unless they reverse course. And this mentality is going to permeate all the wards and branches really fast, more than it has already.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 8:01 am

Sunain wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 7:28 am I will definitely send an email. Just working on it. If they read it, okay, if they don't, well at least I did my part.

Same here. I'm contemplating asking how calling ourselves "Mormon" is a victory for Satan and gay men kissing in public on Church property is not a victory for Satan, but because that is a direct reference to Pres Nelson, I probably won't.

I would like to ask each of the Top 15 how they felt the first time they saw two men kissing. Then I would ask them why they are subjecting BYU students, and anyone visiting the campus (children are there every day with parents) to that disgusting display of homosexual behavior.