LDS Freedom Forum

ori wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 7:12 pm Lizzy60 mentioned "SaveBYU" on another thread.

Here is their "founding document", if you will:

https://www.savebyu.com/wickednessnever ... -one-jdxzz

What do you think?

Is it "steadying the ark"? Is it spot on? What are your thoughts?

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:03 am

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 10:58 am

ori wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 7:12 pm Lizzy60 mentioned "SaveBYU" on another thread.

Here is their "founding document", if you will:

https://www.savebyu.com/wickednessnever ... -one-jdxzz

What do you think?

Is it "steadying the ark"? Is it spot on? What are your thoughts?

If anyone knows who did this, please ask them to read the email they just got with the subject line, "I proofread "wickedness never was bravery" and made some edits to help you."

I noticed some mistakes also, but I didn't contact them. It irks me no end when college graduates don't know the difference between it's and its, as just one example.

I totally overlook things like that in informal writing, and also I do understand that autocorrect and autofill can inadvertently make it look like you've made an error, but a mission statement on a website like this should be absolutely perfect grammatically.

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:40 am

largerthanlife wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:04 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 11:05 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 9:32 pm I’m disgusted that the LGBT and allies are now claiming that the saveBYU folks are apostate and don’t believe the living prophets.

It’s all so twisted and Satanic.

As much as I hate to agree with the LGBTQ+ crowd. They won.

Very, very soon those who advocate for no homosexual behavior will find out they are on the outside.

The revolution happened because no one believed it would happen so they didn't fight it. It is actually quite hilarious and sad to see people now try to push back.

They still have no clue where the battle is. They think the battle is still in homosexuality, when it's not that war is completely lost. The new battle front is in transgender.

Unless the right in the Church gets their crap together and realize where the current battle is being fought they will lose that one too.

The hardest thing mobilizing the right however is to get them to understand you already lost on homosexuality, they still pretend nonono we can still fight this. No you idiots if you had been paying attention 2 years ago you might have been able to mobilize but now it's too late.

There is still a window of opportunity to Garner enough support to push back against transgender but that window is closing real fast.

The war on transgender has been lost also. They can be baptized and be called by their preferred name and pronoun. It sickens me that Drag Queens have invaded our church.

Nope. The handbook still considers pronoun changes to be social transitioning . Per the new handbook that apparently ended the world.. An existing member who is socially transitioning that cannot have any church callings, and are "disfellowshipped" in everything but name. The church only says it will honor any requests to place their "social transitioned name" on the books, it doesn't say there aren't consequences. Any ordinances that they do receive(In the event that they are no longer "transitioning" and have repented ) will be determined by their BIRTH SEX. This line of logic makes it obvious that any actively transitioning person(Social or Physical) cannot be baptized until they repent. You should also take note that for the most part, requirements for baptism are made at the Mission level by the Mission President, and not from a handbook or from the 12.

Transgender individuals can be baptized under the same conditions that felons/murderers/rapists/liars/adulterers/fornicators are under. That is, if they are repentant. Tell me, what percentage of trannies who physically or socially transitioned are going to repent and come unto Jesus and ask to be baptized? I bet none of you in your lifetime will witness this happen in your own wards.

If anything, all of these changes are simply preparing the church to have a legal basis to show that they do not discriminate against homosexuals and transgender folk, and will have prevented a legal fight that would possibly result in the church being forced to encourage and support homosexual marriage in temples.

Of course everyone is way too emotional about this at this point and we are at that point where nobody actually reads everything and starts spouting things that aren't even true, and others who didn't read it as well "likes" their post and starts repeating it. Everything is the end of the world. God help this forum if Bernie Sanders becomes President. Goodness gracious.This is about to be a forum that talks solely about homosexuality and communism.

Brian, start looking for new forum names.

LDSgaycommunismforum.com

Luke wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:46 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 8:38 am

TIFI wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 8:16 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:29 am I think it's too little too late. They had already swallowed the poison pill of evolution and this was the next logical conclusion. Why do we need a God if we came from primordial soup? I think the Church should either do a top to bottom cleansing of this university or sell it outright to a 3rd party. I wouldnt recommend anybody send their children to BYU for the debaucheries and anti-mormon prevalence there. I hate to say it, but I'd prefer my kids go to a sectarian Christian university like Bob Jones or something along those lines. It truly is sad to see how perverted BYU has become.

Well, evolution is real if you like it or not.... and the earth is round...

Oh really? I suppose you will also be trying to convince us about man made global warming, population control, gun control, the merits of being pro-choice, and gay rights, because that usually goes hand in hand with this leftist drivel.

Seriously though, the holes in the theory of evolution are too many. I wish I could get behind the theory as there are some parts of it that contain some truth, like natural selection and such, but there are too many unexplained facts that the theory does not account for. For instance, why do we not see anymore evolution today? We should be discovering new species that have "evolved" from their previous species like horses sprouting wings, chimpanzees and dogs talking our language, apes being able to swim, humans being able to have telekinesis and mind communication/mutant powers. Another aspect that evolution does not account for is the sudden genesis of life that is not be supported by the fossil record or evolution. Darwin believed that we would find fossils of these species to explain gaps in their evolution process. We have not found these fossils to date. Those gaps still remain. Evolutionist's explanation? Rapid evolution over short periods of time, which didnt allow for these fossils be properly represented in the fossil record. Seems convenient to me, but if rapid evolution were a thing, why dont we see it still? (See above) where are the mountain goats that have evolved wings? Were are the fish that are spontaneously growing lungs and coming up on land to avoid predators or find better feeding grounds? Where can science show us the genesis of a new species in real time? They cant. Instead, they point to lab experiments about bacteria and birds on an island. The point remains though, they still remain bacteria or birds. The bacteria doent evolve into a multi cellular organism and walk off the petri dish and the birds do not evolve into mammals or any other higher lifeform, as evolution suggests happens.

Yet, the scientific community bullies any scientist that isnt on board with this religion of evolution and global warming. There are plenty of scientists out there that have some hard questions and evidenced based doubts about both of these theories, yet they are disregarded by the people of today who reside in the great and spacious building. Nevermind the fact that Joseph Smith and several prophets have insisted that we were made in God's image and the animals in our world were formed in their shape at the creation of the world. Nevermind the fact that according to our scriptures, the world is only 6 thousand years old in it's current form. Yet, we sound crazy when we simply put facts out there afraid that the people in the spacious building will scorn us.

Agreed. Anyone who believes in evolution will never see the Celestial Kingdom.

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 2:26 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:03 am

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 10:58 am

ori wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 7:12 pm Lizzy60 mentioned "SaveBYU" on another thread.

Here is their "founding document", if you will:

https://www.savebyu.com/wickednessnever ... -one-jdxzz

What do you think?

Is it "steadying the ark"? Is it spot on? What are your thoughts?

If anyone knows who did this, please ask them to read the email they just got with the subject line, "I proofread "wickedness never was bravery" and made some edits to help you."

I noticed some mistakes also, but I didn't contact them. It irks me no end when college graduates don't know the difference between it's and its, as just one example.

I totally overlook things like that in informal writing, and also I do understand that autocorrect and autofill can inadvertently make it look like you've made an error, but a mission statement on a website like this should be absolutely perfect grammatically.

Yeah. Its not that hard.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 1:24 pm We declare that school sponsored activities such as the 2019 LGBTQ+ Christmas party "Comfort & Joy” put on the the BYU Office of Student Success and Inclusion should never be allowed. This is an obvious misuse of time, property, moral agency, and tithing dollars. LGBTTQQIAAP+ students attended this event to romantically connect with other students.”

Yeah, IF (& that’s a big IF) the church was more by vote and financially transparent, this would have never been accepted. That use of tithes is completely wrong.

It’s great that some are realizing how horrible it’s become, but as mentioned, many years too late.

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 1:24 pm We declare that school sponsored activities such as the 2019 LGBTQ+ Christmas party "Comfort & Joy” put on the the BYU Office of Student Success and Inclusion should never be allowed. This is an obvious misuse of time, property, moral agency, and tithing dollars. LGBTTQQIAAP+ students attended this event to romantically connect with other students.”

Yeah, IF (& that’s a big IF) the church was more by vote and financially transparent, this would have never been accepted. That use of tithes is completely wrong.

It’s great that some are realizing how horrible it’s become, but as mentioned, many years too late.

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 2:51 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:40 am

largerthanlife wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 11:04 am

johnBob wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2020, 11:05 pm
As much as I hate to agree with the LGBTQ+ crowd. They won.

Very, very soon those who advocate for no homosexual behavior will find out they are on the outside.

The revolution happened because no one believed it would happen so they didn't fight it. It is actually quite hilarious and sad to see people now try to push back.

They still have no clue where the battle is. They think the battle is still in homosexuality, when it's not that war is completely lost. The new battle front is in transgender.

Unless the right in the Church gets their crap together and realize where the current battle is being fought they will lose that one too.

The hardest thing mobilizing the right however is to get them to understand you already lost on homosexuality, they still pretend nonono we can still fight this. No you idiots if you had been paying attention 2 years ago you might have been able to mobilize but now it's too late.

There is still a window of opportunity to Garner enough support to push back against transgender but that window is closing real fast.

The war on transgender has been lost also. They can be baptized and be called by their preferred name and pronoun. It sickens me that Drag Queens have invaded our church.

Nope. The handbook still considers pronoun changes to be social transitioning . Per the new handbook that apparently ended the world.. An existing member who is socially transitioning that cannot have any church callings, and are "disfellowshipped" in everything but name. The church only says it will honor any requests to place their "social transitioned name" on the books, it doesn't say there aren't consequences. Any ordinances that they do receive(In the event that they are no longer "transitioning" and have repented ) will be determined by their BIRTH SEX. This line of logic makes it obvious that any actively transitioning person(Social or Physical) cannot be baptized until they repent. You should also take note that for the most part, requirements for baptism are made at the Mission level by the Mission President, and not from a handbook or from the 12.

Transgender individuals can be baptized under the same conditions that felons/murderers/rapists/liars/adulterers/fornicators are under. That is, if they are repentant. Tell me, what percentage of trannies who physically or socially transitioned are going to repent and come unto Jesus and ask to be baptized? I bet none of you in your lifetime will witness this happen in your own wards.

If anything, all of these changes are simply preparing the church to have a legal basis to show that they do not discriminate against homosexuals and transgender folk, and will have prevented a legal fight that would possibly result in the church being forced to encourage and support homosexual marriage in temples.

Of course everyone is way too emotional about this at this point and we are at that point where nobody actually reads everything and starts spouting things that aren't even true, and others who didn't read it as well "likes" their post and starts repeating it. Everything is the end of the world. God help this forum if Bernie Sanders becomes President. Goodness gracious.This is about to be a forum that talks solely about homosexuality and communism.

Brian, start looking for new forum names.

LDSgaycommunismforum.com

I liked what you said until the last couple of paragraphs.

The handbook says "If a member decides to change his or her preferred name or pronouns of address, the name preference may be noted in the preferred name field on the membership record. The person may be addressed by the preferred name in the ward."

What it doesn't say explicitly, but I personally think is implied, is that "the person may also be addressed by the preferred pronoun in the ward." If they can be addressed by their preferred name, it only makes sense to me that they can be addressed by their preferred pronoun.

I like how it allows, but does not require, members to address them by their preferred name.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 1:24 pm We declare that school sponsored activities such as the 2019 LGBTQ+ Christmas party "Comfort & Joy” put on the the BYU Office of Student Success and Inclusion should never be allowed. This is an obvious misuse of time, property, moral agency, and tithing dollars. LGBTTQQIAAP+ students attended this event to romantically connect with other students.”

Yeah, IF (& that’s a big IF) the church was more by vote and financially transparent, this would have never been accepted. That use of tithes is completely wrong.

It’s great that some are realizing how horrible it’s become, but as mentioned, many years too late.

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:11 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 1:24 pm We declare that school sponsored activities such as the 2019 LGBTQ+ Christmas party "Comfort & Joy” put on the the BYU Office of Student Success and Inclusion should never be allowed. This is an obvious misuse of time, property, moral agency, and tithing dollars. LGBTTQQIAAP+ students attended this event to romantically connect with other students.”

Yeah, IF (& that’s a big IF) the church was more by vote and financially transparent, this would have never been accepted. That use of tithes is completely wrong.

It’s great that some are realizing how horrible it’s become, but as mentioned, many years too late.

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I'd rather fall in line with the Brethren. If they have signed off on the party, then I'm ok with it. That is the ONLY reason you find me doing this.

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:11 pm I think it will be expected for members to address people by their preferred name and pronoun. And honestly, I don’t have a problem with that even if it would truthfully be very hard and awkward for me.

I think it’s just common courtesy. I won’t be interacting with them hardly at all, but when I do, I won’t be under illusion that the person is what he/she says she is, but I understand it’s important to them(even though it shouldn’t be) , so I’ll refer to them when talking to them however they want me to refer to them.

Ben Shapiro had a conversation with a transgender individual by the name Blaire White in his podcast once, and I think his stance on it is great. He’s not under the illusion that these people’s sex actually changed, and for all intents and purposes it hasn’t and he will never view it as having changed,he will never start believing that nonsense, but he will happily be courteous and call them whatever they want when he’s with them.

Others obviously disagree, but I don’t personally think that this is a bad thing, I think it’s part of “tolerance” and love. We don’t accept the choice or decision or sin they committed, but we accept them as an individual, and out of love we will call them whatever they want us to call them with the understanding that we will never believe they are anything other than their birth sex.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 1:24 pm We declare that school sponsored activities such as the 2019 LGBTQ+ Christmas party "Comfort & Joy” put on the the BYU Office of Student Success and Inclusion should never be allowed. This is an obvious misuse of time, property, moral agency, and tithing dollars. LGBTTQQIAAP+ students attended this event to romantically connect with other students.”

Yeah, IF (& that’s a big IF) the church was more by vote and financially transparent, this would have never been accepted. That use of tithes is completely wrong.

It’s great that some are realizing how horrible it’s become, but as mentioned, many years too late.

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:13 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:11 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I'd rather fall in line with the Brethren. If they have signed off on the party, then I'm ok with it. That is the ONLY reason you find me doing this.

Where is your limit to falling in line with the Brethren?

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:19 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 1:24 pm We declare that school sponsored activities such as the 2019 LGBTQ+ Christmas party "Comfort & Joy” put on the the BYU Office of Student Success and Inclusion should never be allowed. This is an obvious misuse of time, property, moral agency, and tithing dollars. LGBTTQQIAAP+ students attended this event to romantically connect with other students.”

Yeah, IF (& that’s a big IF) the church was more by vote and financially transparent, this would have never been accepted. That use of tithes is completely wrong.

It’s great that some are realizing how horrible it’s become, but as mentioned, many years too late.

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I don’t think Ori has done that, I think Ori has his/her head on straight and does a good job trying to approach things the right way.

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:27 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:19 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I don’t think Ori has done that, I think Ori has his/her head on straight and does a good job trying to approach things the right way.

Zathura, this means A LOT to me. Thank you so much for your kindness.

I know we disagree on many things, but it's OK to disagree. We don't all have to be the same. The great thing about the Saints is that they are United. And despite our differences, I believe you and I would be united in ways that matter most.

(On an unrelated note, how does one change their username? I can't figure it out)

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:27 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:19 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:04 pm

My gut instinct is to completely agree with this bullet point in their document. HOWEVER, I'm not going to follow my gut instinct on this one. I leave my mind open to the possibility that there is a valid, legitimate gospel reason to have such a party. Think of it this way: if Alcoholics Anonymous held a Christmas party, would that be wrong? When stated this way, it becomes clear that the purpose for the party is really what makes it good or bad -- not the audience. If the purpose of the party was to draw LGBTQ+ community closer to Christ, then I support it. If the purpose of the party was to create same-sex dating opportunities for the individuals, that would be wrong. In my opinion, it could even be the case that some of the party planners had evil purposes in mind, others had good purposes in mind, and yet others probably just went along with it. If the Christmas party was held in such a way that Christmas hymns were sung, scriptures read (without twisting of meaning and wresting of the scriptures) and the Spirit was present because individuals were being lead closer to Christ, then I support the meeting.

Some of the attendees may have had the correct mindset when attending (the mindset of a person who struggles with same-sex attraction but strives to keep the commandments could be one example) -- these individuals may have been brought closer to Christ.

In today's climate, it is admittedly difficult to imagine that the attendees had the correct spirit when attending the party. It is also difficult to imagine that the planners had the correct purpose in mind. And yet, the possibility is there. So I do not actually agree with this bullet point of the SaveBYU "founding document".

Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I don’t think Ori has done that, I think Ori has his/her head on straight and does a good job trying to approach things the right way.

Zathura, this means A LOT to me. Thank you so much for your kindness.

I know we disagree on many things, but it's OK to disagree. We don't all have to be the same. The great thing about the Saints is that they are United. And despite our differences, I believe you and I would be united in ways that matter most.

(On an unrelated note, how does one change their username? I can't figure it out)

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:24 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:13 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:11 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm
Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I'd rather fall in line with the Brethren. If they have signed off on the party, then I'm ok with it. That is the ONLY reason you find me doing this.

Where is your limit to falling in line with the Brethren?

Good question. I will follow the Q15.

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:32 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:27 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:19 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:07 pm
Why do people make excuses for the LGBTQ+ crowd? I simply do not understand.

I don’t think Ori has done that, I think Ori has his/her head on straight and does a good job trying to approach things the right way.

Zathura, this means A LOT to me. Thank you so much for your kindness.

I know we disagree on many things, but it's OK to disagree. We don't all have to be the same. The great thing about the Saints is that they are United. And despite our differences, I believe you and I would be united in ways that matter most.

(On an unrelated note, how does one change their username? I can't figure it out)

PM Brian. He'll change it for you.

You might have noticed that I shortened mine recently.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:44 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:24 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:13 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 3:11 pm

I'd rather fall in line with the Brethren. If they have signed off on the party, then I'm ok with it. That is the ONLY reason you find me doing this.

Where is your limit to falling in line with the Brethren?

Good question. I will follow the Q15.

And this is why the Church MUST cave on homosexual marriages.

Your opponents who desire it to happen don't play by your same rules. They will say they sustain but all the while doing missionary work for their cause. They do not have integrity and when the more part of the people desire wickedness as the Book of Mormon tells us, we will get it.

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:16 pm I've had a spiritual impression today. My kids were watching VeggieTales "Jonah". It's a cartoon version of Jonah and the Whale. In the story, the citizens of Ninevah repent of their wickedness, and return to God. They were the basest of sinners, but they came back. God was merciful. I was pondering this LGBT stuff and I felt the love of God so strongly for our LGBT brothers and sisters. Yes, the rainbow mafia is commanded by Satan himself. And they don't play by the same rules. But God knows the end from the beginning. He has a marvelous work and a wonder yet to come. He is ever so merciful. He loves our LGBT brothers and sister very, very dearly.

I've joyfully come to the conclusion that the Q15 are doing the absolutely the right thing. They know how to treat the LGBT community. They are inspired by God in doing so. I realize that BYU holding LGBT parties is not necessarily wrong. The parties are to show our love for them. The LGBT people may attend with the wrong motives. The party planners themselves may have the wrong purposes in mind. But the Q15 do not. The Q15 are inspired, I am fully confident of this.

I suspect that when God drops his hammer on the earth in the coming years, many in the LGBT community will realize the error of their ways, and remember the love the church showed them, DESPITE their best efforts to overturn the will of God on the matters of homosexuality. And when they reflect on this, they will be convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church on earth.

I've learned that I'm usually not ready to accept a lesson from God. But this time, finally, I was. And I feel so blessed for it. I've learned a powerful lesson this weekend about LONGSUFFERING and COMPASSION. These are virtues that are very difficult for me to learn. So I have been very thick-headed on this lesson, but I'm now ready to dive in and learn this lesson more fully.

I will never accept homosexual acts as anything other than some of the vilest of sins. And neither will the church. We can firmly keep our standards, while showing love.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:38 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:16 pm I've had a spiritual impression today. My kids were watching VeggieTales "Jonah". It's a cartoon version of Jonah and the Whale. In the story, the citizens of Ninevah repent of their wickedness, and return to God. They were the basest of sinners, but they came back. God was merciful. I was pondering this LGBT stuff and I felt the love of God so strongly for our LGBT brothers and sisters. Yes, the rainbow mafia is commanded by Satan himself. And they don't play by the same rules. But God knows the end from the beginning. He has a marvelous work and a wonder yet to come. He is ever so merciful. He loves our LGBT brothers and sister very, very dearly.

I've joyfully come to the conclusion that the Q15 are doing the absolutely the right thing. They know how to treat the LGBT community. They are inspired by God in doing so. I realize that BYU holding LGBT parties is not necessarily wrong. The parties are to show our love for them. The LGBT people may attend with the wrong motives. The party planners themselves may have the wrong purposes in mind. But the Q15 do not. The Q15 are inspired, I am fully confident of this.

I suspect that when God drops his hammer on the earth in the coming years, many in the LGBT community will realize the error of their ways, and remember the love the church showed them, DESPITE their best efforts to overturn the will of God on the matters of homosexuality. And when they reflect on this, they will be convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church on earth.

I've learned that I'm usually not ready to accept a lesson from God. But this time, finally, I was. And I feel so blessed for it. I've learned a powerful lesson this weekend about LONGSUFFERING and COMPASSION. These are virtues that are very difficult for me to learn. So I have been very thick-headed on this lesson, but I'm now ready to dive in and learn this lesson more fully.

I will never accept homosexual acts as anything other than some of the vilest of sins. And neither will the church. We can firmly keep our standards, while showing love.

Based on what you have written here, I predict that in time you will become an advocate for LGBTQ+ causes, that last sentence is not truthful. You already have accepted homosexual acts. In time you will absolutely accept homosexuality and you will do it by watching Veggie Tales instead by reading scriptures . . .

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:21 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:38 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:16 pm I've had a spiritual impression today. My kids were watching VeggieTales "Jonah". It's a cartoon version of Jonah and the Whale. In the story, the citizens of Ninevah repent of their wickedness, and return to God. They were the basest of sinners, but they came back. God was merciful. I was pondering this LGBT stuff and I felt the love of God so strongly for our LGBT brothers and sisters. Yes, the rainbow mafia is commanded by Satan himself. And they don't play by the same rules. But God knows the end from the beginning. He has a marvelous work and a wonder yet to come. He is ever so merciful. He loves our LGBT brothers and sister very, very dearly.

I've joyfully come to the conclusion that the Q15 are doing the absolutely the right thing. They know how to treat the LGBT community. They are inspired by God in doing so. I realize that BYU holding LGBT parties is not necessarily wrong. The parties are to show our love for them. The LGBT people may attend with the wrong motives. The party planners themselves may have the wrong purposes in mind. But the Q15 do not. The Q15 are inspired, I am fully confident of this.

I suspect that when God drops his hammer on the earth in the coming years, many in the LGBT community will realize the error of their ways, and remember the love the church showed them, DESPITE their best efforts to overturn the will of God on the matters of homosexuality. And when they reflect on this, they will be convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church on earth.

I've learned that I'm usually not ready to accept a lesson from God. But this time, finally, I was. And I feel so blessed for it. I've learned a powerful lesson this weekend about LONGSUFFERING and COMPASSION. These are virtues that are very difficult for me to learn. So I have been very thick-headed on this lesson, but I'm now ready to dive in and learn this lesson more fully.

I will never accept homosexual acts as anything other than some of the vilest of sins. And neither will the church. We can firmly keep our standards, while showing love.

Based on what you have written here, I predict that in time you will become an advocate for LGBTQ+ causes, that last sentence is not truthful. You already have accepted homosexual acts. In time you will absolutely accept homosexuality and you will do it by watching Veggie Tales instead by reading scriptures . . .

ll gone and lost your minds and apparently to you guys, anyone who doesn’t make rude and vulgar jokes about gay people

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:23 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:21 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:38 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 6:16 pm I've had a spiritual impression today. My kids were watching VeggieTales "Jonah". It's a cartoon version of Jonah and the Whale. In the story, the citizens of Ninevah repent of their wickedness, and return to God. They were the basest of sinners, but they came back. God was merciful. I was pondering this LGBT stuff and I felt the love of God so strongly for our LGBT brothers and sisters. Yes, the rainbow mafia is commanded by Satan himself. And they don't play by the same rules. But God knows the end from the beginning. He has a marvelous work and a wonder yet to come. He is ever so merciful. He loves our LGBT brothers and sister very, very dearly.

I've joyfully come to the conclusion that the Q15 are doing the absolutely the right thing. They know how to treat the LGBT community. They are inspired by God in doing so. I realize that BYU holding LGBT parties is not necessarily wrong. The parties are to show our love for them. The LGBT people may attend with the wrong motives. The party planners themselves may have the wrong purposes in mind. But the Q15 do not. The Q15 are inspired, I am fully confident of this.

I suspect that when God drops his hammer on the earth in the coming years, many in the LGBT community will realize the error of their ways, and remember the love the church showed them, DESPITE their best efforts to overturn the will of God on the matters of homosexuality. And when they reflect on this, they will be convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church on earth.

I've learned that I'm usually not ready to accept a lesson from God. But this time, finally, I was. And I feel so blessed for it. I've learned a powerful lesson this weekend about LONGSUFFERING and COMPASSION. These are virtues that are very difficult for me to learn. So I have been very thick-headed on this lesson, but I'm now ready to dive in and learn this lesson more fully.

I will never accept homosexual acts as anything other than some of the vilest of sins. And neither will the church. We can firmly keep our standards, while showing love.

Based on what you have written here, I predict that in time you will become an advocate for LGBTQ+ causes, that last sentence is not truthful. You already have accepted homosexual acts. In time you will absolutely accept homosexuality and you will do it by watching Veggie Tales instead by reading scriptures . . .

ll gone and lost your minds and apparently to you guys, anyone who doesn’t make rude and vulgar jokes about gay people

Where has anyone here made rude or vulgar jokes. What a straw man!