LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 4:49 pm**

BYU is a battleground. Lucifer practically owns education in America, and he's had major victories over the years at church schools.

What do you hope to see the institution of the church do about BYU and other church schools?

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm**

What is the purpose of BYU?

Many years ago Pres. Hinckley came to England and I attended one of the meetings at which he spoke. He said, "the church has come of age in England. There is no programme of the church available in the US that is not available here in England.... with one exception... BYU". And then he said, and I'll quote him exactly "and who'd want to go there!"
He then went on to explain that we have such prestigious universities in the UK that we don't need to go to BYU or anywhere else to recieve the very highest and best education available anywhere in the world.

When I think of the US I can think of a number of similarly prestigious universities, and I'm sure there are many others that don't come readily to mind but which are excellent in their fields.
So, to return to my question, what purpose does BYU serve these days?

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 5:04 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

Many years ago Pres. Hinckley came to England and I attended one of the meetings at which he spoke. He said, "the church has come of age in England. There is no programme of the church available in the US that is not available here in England.... with one exception... BYU". And then he said, and I'll quote him exactly "and who'd want to go there!"
He then went on to explain that we have such prestigious universities in the UK that we don't need to go to BYU or anywhere else to recieve the very highest and best education available anywhere in the world.

When I think of the US I can think of a number of similarly prestigious universities, and I'm sure there are many others that don't come readily to mind but which are excellent in their fields.
So, to return to my question, what purpose does BYU serve these days?

Sports and some kind of prestige when they are winning....

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 5:18 pm**

It's inexpensive compared to similar universities, since it is subsidized with the widow's mite.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 5:20 pm**

Another option would be to remove all those who have been advocating for sin to be accepted by the Church. This should have been done long ago.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 6:26 pm**

Yes, why don’t they cleanse BYU? I feel the Church needs a cleanse as well. Those progmos should be praying I’m not a high up leader because if I was, I’d be pushing for a cleansing. — membership restrictions are supposed to be used for the purpose of helping a member repent. So why are we not doing more of that for those clearly steadying the ark in the form of LGBT rights (et al)?

... But I’m not a leader. I trust our Q15. They have a stewardship and a point of view that I don’t have.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 6:37 pm**

BYU has become a liability. There's no easy way out of this one.

If they divest themselves, the University will be anti-Mormon in a matter of 5-10 years. The woke scolds will rename the University and well.

If they keep it, the current issues will only get worse, including legal threats.

They ought to simply announce that they're closing the school, keeping the land, and using it to expand the MTC. Such a move will allow them to save face and focus on the importance of preaching the gospel.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 6:38 pm**

BYU is, or was, a great place to meet single people of the opposite sex.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 6:44 pm**

if I were in charge i would sell it to scientology for the memes

viral funny meme of the church = more baptisms, good public image, a whole host of good things really

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 6:48 pm**

They aren't divesting in BYU, they are actually INVESTING. They just announced that they are building a new School of Music performance and academic building.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 6:50 pm**

ori wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 6:26 pm Yes, why don’t they cleanse BYU? I feel the Church needs a cleanse as well. Those progmos should be praying I’m not a high up leader because if I was, I’d be pushing for a cleansing. — membership restrictions are supposed to be used for the purpose of helping a member repent. So why are we not doing more of that for those clearly steadying the ark in the form of LGBT rights (et al)?

... But I’m not a leader. I trust our Q15. They have a stewardship and a point of view that I don’t have.

I agree Ori. They do have a perspective we do not have. And I am open to the idea that I am missing something here.

But wouldn't it be nice to actually have them explain what that perspective is? It seems we have done a 180 degree turn on where homosexuality is a sin without any explanation whatsoever. Perhaps it is a lack of faith on my part, but when I see my church accepting as good something which has been considered a sin by throughout all judeo-christian history, I tend to start to question what is happening.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 7:04 pm**

Serragon wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 6:50 pm
ori wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 6:26 pm Yes, why don’t they cleanse BYU? I feel the Church needs a cleanse as well. Those progmos should be praying I’m not a high up leader because if I was, I’d be pushing for a cleansing. — membership restrictions are supposed to be used for the purpose of helping a member repent. So why are we not doing more of that for those clearly steadying the ark in the form of LGBT rights (et al)?

... But I’m not a leader. I trust our Q15. They have a stewardship and a point of view that I don’t have.
I agree Ori. They do have a perspective we do not have. And I am open to the idea that I am missing something here.

But wouldn't it be nice to actually have them explain what that perspective is? It seems we have done a 180 degree turn on where homosexuality is a sin without any explanation whatsoever. Perhaps it is a lack of faith on my part, but when I see my church accepting as good something which has been considered a sin by throughout all judeo-christian history, I tend to start to question what is happening.

I don't have to question what is happening. Ancient prophets SAW our day, and they prophesied of the dire straits we would find ourselves in.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 7:32 pm**

Serragon wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 6:50 pm
ori wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 6:26 pm Yes, why don’t they cleanse BYU? I feel the Church needs a cleanse as well. Those progmos should be praying I’m not a high up leader because if I was, I’d be pushing for a cleansing. — membership restrictions are supposed to be used for the purpose of helping a member repent. So why are we not doing more of that for those clearly steadying the ark in the form of LGBT rights (et al)?

... But I’m not a leader. I trust our Q15. They have a stewardship and a point of view that I don’t have.
I agree Ori. They do have a perspective we do not have. And I am open to the idea that I am missing something here.

But wouldn't it be nice to actually have them explain what that perspective is? It seems we have done a 180 degree turn on where homosexuality is a sin without any explanation whatsoever. Perhaps it is a lack of faith on my part, but when I see my church accepting as good something which has been considered a sin by throughout all judeo-christian history, I tend to start to question what is happening.

Lack of faith on your part? No, something is definitely wrong with this decision.

Posted: **February 21st, 2020, 7:47 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

I asked a similar question here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53951

BYU used to have a purpose that differentiated it, beyond just providing a relatively inexpensive college degree program and a sticter-than-most honor code.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 7:22 pm**

I've heard some say we should expand the MTC, but I doubt that we'd have need of that much land and that many buildings for an MTC.

Anyone else have ideas for what could be done with that land and those buildings?

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 7:46 pm**

Can you imagine the economic implications to Provo/Utah County if BYU was simply closed down? Not to mention BYU-I and Hawaii.

4,000 people unemployed overnight.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 8:14 pm**

Online courses only would make all the woke stuff on campus irrelevant.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:13 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:22 pm I've heard some say we should expand the MTC, but I doubt that we'd have need of that much land and that many buildings for an MTC.

Anyone else have ideas for what could be done with that land and those buildings?

When I pitched that, it was from the perspective of 'saving face'. But yeah, it's a long shot.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:16 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:22 pm I've heard some say we should expand the MTC, but I doubt that we'd have need of that much land and that many buildings for an MTC.

Anyone else have ideas for what could be done with that land and those buildings?

Homeless shelter? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:17 pm**

Davka wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:46 pm Can you imagine the economic implications to Provo/Utah County if BYU was simply closed down? Not to mention BYU-I and Hawaii.

4,000 people unemployed overnight.

Yeah, it'd cripple Provo. The domino effect would be pretty massive.

BYU isn't going anywhere. It is a lost cause though.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm**

If BYU and the Church wasn't worried about making money and prestige they could close it's doors to anyone who isn't sealed in the Temple. Checkmate

Makes it easier for young married couples to find affordable housing in Provo too.

Let the young single adults go to UVU and the U

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:28 pm**

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm If BYU and the Church wasn't worried about making money and prestige they could close it's doors to anyone who isn't sealed in the Temple. Checkmate Makes it easier for young married couples to find affordable housing in Provo too.

Let the young single adults go to UVU and the U

Could put a major emphasis on post-grad degrees and research for older more mature students. Admittance requires:
- a bachelor's with good grades
- work experience after graduation
- marriage in the temple

This actually describes what I did. I only did Masters at BYU and coincidentally had all those boxes checked (not that I was trying, or planning that)

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:31 pm**

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:28 pm
Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm If BYU and the Church wasn't worried about making money and prestige they could close it's doors to anyone who isn't sealed in the Temple. Checkmate Makes it easier for young married couples to find affordable housing in Provo too.

Let the young single adults go to UVU and the U
Could put a major emphasis on post-grad degrees and research for older more mature students. Admittance requires:
- a bachelor's with good grades
- work experience after graduation
- marriage in the temple

This is the only hypothetical(completely unrealistic) scenario I could think of that would solve the issue we face and keep BYU in existence.

While I do think people are over-reacting and exaggerating a lot of what's happening, I do think it's a hopeless situation and it'll get a lot worse. I think people's worst fears are eventually going to come true.

IMO, that wouldn't be the worst thing that can happen. After all, the greatest obstacle to properly understanding the Doctrine of Christ as found in the scriptures is pretty much always "Why don't I hear that in church?". Well, that won't be an obstacle if the Saints don't go to church anymore.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:35 pm**

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:13 pm
i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:22 pm I've heard some say we should expand the MTC, but I doubt that we'd have need of that much land and that many buildings for an MTC.

Anyone else have ideas for what could be done with that land and those buildings?
When I pitched that, it was from the perspective of 'saving face'. But yeah, it's a long shot.

I wondered where I read it... I guess I didn't scroll up high enough, LOL.

Posted: **February 23rd, 2020, 9:36 pm**

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:28 pm
Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm If BYU and the Church wasn't worried about making money and prestige they could close it's doors to anyone who isn't sealed in the Temple. Checkmate Makes it easier for young married couples to find affordable housing in Provo too.

Let the young single adults go to UVU and the U
Could put a major emphasis on post-grad degrees and research for older more mature students. Admittance requires:
- a bachelor's with good grades
- work experience after graduation
- marriage in the temple

This actually describes what I did. I only did Masters at BYU and coincidentally had all those boxes checked (not that I was trying, or planning that)

I'll add that when you go to BYU under these conditions, you are 100% out of the social scene (because you have legit responsibilities and you're there for a very specific reason), so 90% of the cultural issues are "out of sight, out of mind".

If that happened to every student, BYU would be much less of a joke.

But yes, I agree that the church would never be interested in this.

LDS Freedom Forum

What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?

Re: What should the institution of the church do about BYU?