LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **February 27th, 2020, 10:54 am**

Allison wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 10:08 am How does this inform us of those four apostles’ opinions on evolution? Are we to believe that all university presidents agree with all that is taught at universities? Isn’t that a little silly?

You're exactly right. Just because a person hasn't arranged all the furniture in their house exactly as they would want by the time they move to a different house doesn't mean that everything in the house was arranged to their preference. That's over simplified, but it shows my point.

I'm sure some apostles firmly believe there's merit to organic evolution. I'm sure others are quite skeptical. But, as I've said probably dozens of times just in the last year, just because something happens at BYU doesn't mean the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 like it or want it, even if they let it happen.

Posted: **February 27th, 2020, 11:37 am**

I think either the church should stop running BYU or they should do whatever they need to I order to have every right and ability to have it completely under church requirements.

But from what I have heard of BYU over the years, it’s worse than the college I went to, and we had a bar under our student union with pool tables and the like. Maybe it should just shut down and all those LDS students can go to regular colleges where having a beard or wearing whatever clothes or having a boyfriend spend the night is not 1 bit of a worry to anyone. Then the focus of that stuff can dissipate and they can learn to be students and adults who are responsible for themselves.

Posted: **February 27th, 2020, 11:57 am**

Allison wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 10:08 am
justme wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:56 pm
ori wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:38 pm
i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:32 am

I looked more into this and found the following information:

"President Young saw the dangers of false philosophies and desired Church schools to combat them. The two primary concerns that rested upon President Young were evolution (Darwinian evolution) and Marxism (socialism/communism). The Presidents of the Church have continually warned of the dangers of teaching that man descended from lower forms of life and President Young was no exception. President Young felt that the theories of Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley, who was known as “Darwin’s Bulldog” for his advocacy of the theories of organic evolution, were corrupting the youth among the Saints in his day. Another prominent Darwinist, Louis Compton Miall, was also noted as a threat to the youth. Because of this, President Young used his own financial means to create an academy where these false philosophies could be refuted. This Academy was named Brigham Young Academy and later became Brigham Young University. Brother Hugh Nibley once commented that the purpose of Brigham Young University as envisioned by Brigham Young was to confront the false doctrines promoted in Darwinian evolution."
- Joseph Smith Foundation

“We have enough and to spare, at present in these mountains, of schools where young infidels are made because the teachers are so tender-footed that they dare not mention the principles of the gospel to their pupils, but have no hesitancy in introducing into the classroom the theories of Huxley, of Darwin, or of Miall, and the false political economy which contends against co-operation and the United Order . . . this course I am resolutely and uncompromisingly opposed to, and I hope to see the day when the doctrines of the gospel will be taught in all our schools, when the revelation of the Lord will be our texts, and our books will be written and manufactured by ourselves and in our own midst. As a beginning in this direction I have endowed the Brigham Young Academy at Provo.”
Brigham Young

We have no choice at BYU except to “hold the line” regarding gospel standards and values and to draw men and women from other campuses also–all we can–into this same posture, for people entangled in sin are not free. In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom. We do not resist such ideas because we fear them, but because they are false. . . . When the pressures mount for us to follow the false ways of the world, we hope in the years yet future that those who are part of this University and the Church Educational System will not attempt to counsel the Board of Trustees to follow in false ways. We want, through your administration, to receive all your suggestions for making BYU even better. I hope none will presume on the prerogatives of the prophets of God to set the basic direction for this University. No man comes to the demanding position of the Presidency of the Church except his heart and mind are constantly open to the impressions, insights, and revelations of God.”
Spencer W. Kimball

Did you see that by Kimball?
"In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom."

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. My how hard we've stumbled.
Don't many of the apostles personally believe in universal common ancestry? And if not that, then common ancestry for all living things except humans?

What you quoted above is interesting because BYU absolutely does teach evolution. Brigham has been rolling in his grave for decades.

The board of trustees no doubt approves of the teaching of evolution.
Four of the current Q15 were university presidents. There is no question that the board approves of the teaching of evolution.

How does this inform us of those four apostles’ opinions on evolution? Are we to believe that all university presidents agree with all that is taught at universities? Isn’t that a little silly?

Creationists such as myself don't think that we shouldn't teach evolution in public schools. We do however think it should be taught with healthy skepticism, including all of the holes in evolution. All of the problems it has, its weaknesses. And Intelligent Design ideas should be taught alongside it. Do we want to educate them, or indoctrinate them?

I'm actually fine if private schools (like BYU) want to indoctrinate, but they should at least do it in line with their faith, and not against it! (Cue the mental gymnastics about how evolution is completely in line with our faith. Question for you: why does teaching evolution lead to a LOSS of faith in people, instead of an increase in faith?)

Posted: **February 27th, 2020, 12:01 pm**

Thinker wrote: ↑February 27th, 2020, 8:43 am Abijah,
Christ was accused of far worse than spamming threads. Yes, I have beat a couple drums around here - because I see important teachings of CHRIST being ignored. And I feel compelled to be a voice to those who have none.

in regards to "spamming" that was a poor word choice for which i apologise.

i think its important for you and everyone else feel free to speak their mind uninhibited and i do admire the passion of your beliefs.

i dont think we are at all different in our intention or desires. i think we both would see the poor sustained and uplifted as they are in true zion, where there is no poor.

if anything we disagree on its the methods through which this is achieved. we as a church are called to build and become zion, and i do not at all think the zion-method of alleviating poverty, hunger, nakedness and thirst is through the means of foreign economic import. again, i firmly maintain that this merely addresses the symptom, and not only does it not fail to resolve the actual problem, perhaps it even exacerbates it.

the problems of africa and other hunger-stricken areas of the world are ultimately problems of disintegration of the family and proper parenting. in my opinion, such problems cant be fixed by merely throwing money at it. that is the superficial, leftist pattern of reacting to social problems, and behold the fruits.

simply stated, my view on the matter if you really want to change the condition of these peoples, you would be better off furthering a crusade that targeted the hearts and minds of these peoples / parents / cultures, rather than targeting their pocketbooks. i understand its a lot more difficult to accomplish, but in reality its what is needful for real change. just ask tupac.

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