LDS Freedom Forum

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:36 pm

mahalanobis wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:28 pm

Zathura wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 9:22 pm If BYU and the Church wasn't worried about making money and prestige they could close it's doors to anyone who isn't sealed in the Temple. Checkmate Makes it easier for young married couples to find affordable housing in Provo too.

Let the young single adults go to UVU and the U

Could put a major emphasis on post-grad degrees and research for older more mature students. Admittance requires:
- a bachelor's with good grades
- work experience after graduation
- marriage in the temple

This actually describes what I did. I only did Masters at BYU and coincidentally had all those boxes checked (not that I was trying, or planning that)

I'll add that when you go to BYU under these conditions, you are 100% out of the social scene (because you have legit responsibilities and you're there for a very specific reason), so 90% of the cultural issues are "out of sight, out of mind".

If that happened to every student, BYU would be much less of a joke.

But yes, I agree that the church would never be interested in this.

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:22 pm I've heard some say we should expand the MTC, but I doubt that we'd have need of that much land and that many buildings for an MTC.

Anyone else have ideas for what could be done with that land and those buildings?

simpleton wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 6:04 am My understanding of the purpose of the BYU initially, at the beginning, was to have teachers who were imbued with Gods Spirit, to teach with Gods Spirit. And I think that should be the only way to teach. Anything more or less cometh of evil.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:32 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

I looked more into this and found the following information:

"President Young saw the dangers of false philosophies and desired Church schools to combat them. The two primary concerns that rested upon President Young were evolution (Darwinian evolution) and Marxism (socialism/communism). The Presidents of the Church have continually warned of the dangers of teaching that man descended from lower forms of life and President Young was no exception. President Young felt that the theories of Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley, who was known as “Darwin’s Bulldog” for his advocacy of the theories of organic evolution, were corrupting the youth among the Saints in his day. Another prominent Darwinist, Louis Compton Miall, was also noted as a threat to the youth. Because of this, President Young used his own financial means to create an academy where these false philosophies could be refuted. This Academy was named Brigham Young Academy and later became Brigham Young University. Brother Hugh Nibley once commented that the purpose of Brigham Young University as envisioned by Brigham Young was to confront the false doctrines promoted in Darwinian evolution."
- Joseph Smith Foundation


“We have enough and to spare, at present in these mountains, of schools where young infidels are made because the teachers are so tender-footed that they dare not mention the principles of the gospel to their pupils, but have no hesitancy in introducing into the classroom the theories of Huxley, of Darwin, or of Miall, and the false political economy which contends against co-operation and the United Order . . . this course I am resolutely and uncompromisingly opposed to, and I hope to see the day when the doctrines of the gospel will be taught in all our schools, when the revelation of the Lord will be our texts, and our books will be written and manufactured by ourselves and in our own midst. As a beginning in this direction I have endowed the Brigham Young Academy at Provo.”
Brigham Young


We have no choice at BYU except to “hold the line” regarding gospel standards and values and to draw men and women from other campuses also–all we can–into this same posture, for people entangled in sin are not free. In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom. We do not resist such ideas because we fear them, but because they are false. . . . When the pressures mount for us to follow the false ways of the world, we hope in the years yet future that those who are part of this University and the Church Educational System will not attempt to counsel the Board of Trustees to follow in false ways. We want, through your administration, to receive all your suggestions for making BYU even better. I hope none will presume on the prerogatives of the prophets of God to set the basic direction for this University. No man comes to the demanding position of the Presidency of the Church except his heart and mind are constantly open to the impressions, insights, and revelations of God.”
Spencer W. Kimball


Did you see that by Kimball?
"In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom."

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. My how hard we've stumbled.

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:32 am
Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. My how hard we've stumbled.

Contemplator wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:52 pm Let’s see, the board of trustees is the first presidency, 4 apostles, and a number of general organization presidents. They approved the change to the honor code. They approve every professor hired. What if it turns out that what they should do is just what they are doing?

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 10:06 pm

Contemplator wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:52 pm Let’s see, the board of trustees is the first presidency, 4 apostles, and a number of general organization presidents. They approved the change to the honor code. They approve every professor hired. What if it turns out that what they should do is just what they are doing?

And what if it turns out that it's not? They themselves have told us that they are capable of making mistakes.

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2020, 7:22 pm I've heard some say we should expand the MTC, but I doubt that we'd have need of that much land and that many buildings for an MTC.

Anyone else have ideas for what could be done with that land and those buildings?

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:32 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

I looked more into this and found the following information:

"President Young saw the dangers of false philosophies and desired Church schools to combat them. The two primary concerns that rested upon President Young were evolution (Darwinian evolution) and Marxism (socialism/communism). The Presidents of the Church have continually warned of the dangers of teaching that man descended from lower forms of life and President Young was no exception. President Young felt that the theories of Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley, who was known as “Darwin’s Bulldog” for his advocacy of the theories of organic evolution, were corrupting the youth among the Saints in his day. Another prominent Darwinist, Louis Compton Miall, was also noted as a threat to the youth. Because of this, President Young used his own financial means to create an academy where these false philosophies could be refuted. This Academy was named Brigham Young Academy and later became Brigham Young University. Brother Hugh Nibley once commented that the purpose of Brigham Young University as envisioned by Brigham Young was to confront the false doctrines promoted in Darwinian evolution."
- Joseph Smith Foundation


“We have enough and to spare, at present in these mountains, of schools where young infidels are made because the teachers are so tender-footed that they dare not mention the principles of the gospel to their pupils, but have no hesitancy in introducing into the classroom the theories of Huxley, of Darwin, or of Miall, and the false political economy which contends against co-operation and the United Order . . . this course I am resolutely and uncompromisingly opposed to, and I hope to see the day when the doctrines of the gospel will be taught in all our schools, when the revelation of the Lord will be our texts, and our books will be written and manufactured by ourselves and in our own midst. As a beginning in this direction I have endowed the Brigham Young Academy at Provo.”
Brigham Young


We have no choice at BYU except to “hold the line” regarding gospel standards and values and to draw men and women from other campuses also–all we can–into this same posture, for people entangled in sin are not free. In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom. We do not resist such ideas because we fear them, but because they are false. . . . When the pressures mount for us to follow the false ways of the world, we hope in the years yet future that those who are part of this University and the Church Educational System will not attempt to counsel the Board of Trustees to follow in false ways. We want, through your administration, to receive all your suggestions for making BYU even better. I hope none will presume on the prerogatives of the prophets of God to set the basic direction for this University. No man comes to the demanding position of the Presidency of the Church except his heart and mind are constantly open to the impressions, insights, and revelations of God.”
Spencer W. Kimball


Did you see that by Kimball?
"In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom."

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. My how hard we've stumbled.

ori wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:38 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:32 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

I looked more into this and found the following information:

"President Young saw the dangers of false philosophies and desired Church schools to combat them. The two primary concerns that rested upon President Young were evolution (Darwinian evolution) and Marxism (socialism/communism). The Presidents of the Church have continually warned of the dangers of teaching that man descended from lower forms of life and President Young was no exception. President Young felt that the theories of Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley, who was known as “Darwin’s Bulldog” for his advocacy of the theories of organic evolution, were corrupting the youth among the Saints in his day. Another prominent Darwinist, Louis Compton Miall, was also noted as a threat to the youth. Because of this, President Young used his own financial means to create an academy where these false philosophies could be refuted. This Academy was named Brigham Young Academy and later became Brigham Young University. Brother Hugh Nibley once commented that the purpose of Brigham Young University as envisioned by Brigham Young was to confront the false doctrines promoted in Darwinian evolution."
- Joseph Smith Foundation


“We have enough and to spare, at present in these mountains, of schools where young infidels are made because the teachers are so tender-footed that they dare not mention the principles of the gospel to their pupils, but have no hesitancy in introducing into the classroom the theories of Huxley, of Darwin, or of Miall, and the false political economy which contends against co-operation and the United Order . . . this course I am resolutely and uncompromisingly opposed to, and I hope to see the day when the doctrines of the gospel will be taught in all our schools, when the revelation of the Lord will be our texts, and our books will be written and manufactured by ourselves and in our own midst. As a beginning in this direction I have endowed the Brigham Young Academy at Provo.”
Brigham Young


We have no choice at BYU except to “hold the line” regarding gospel standards and values and to draw men and women from other campuses also–all we can–into this same posture, for people entangled in sin are not free. In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom. We do not resist such ideas because we fear them, but because they are false. . . . When the pressures mount for us to follow the false ways of the world, we hope in the years yet future that those who are part of this University and the Church Educational System will not attempt to counsel the Board of Trustees to follow in false ways. We want, through your administration, to receive all your suggestions for making BYU even better. I hope none will presume on the prerogatives of the prophets of God to set the basic direction for this University. No man comes to the demanding position of the Presidency of the Church except his heart and mind are constantly open to the impressions, insights, and revelations of God.”
Spencer W. Kimball


Did you see that by Kimball?
"In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom."

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. My how hard we've stumbled.

Don't many of the apostles personally believe in universal common ancestry? And if not that, then common ancestry for all living things except humans?

What you quoted above is interesting because BYU absolutely does teach evolution. Brigham has been rolling in his grave for decades.

The board of trustees no doubt approves of the teaching of evolution.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 8:55 pm BYU can’t turn back now. They’ve passed the tipping point of no return. The church won’t be able to hardly anything with BYU. So it honestly won’t matter what my small opinion is on this forum. I wish the church didn’t change the honor code policy. But it’s too late.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:03 pm Humanitarian service mission education, training & service headquarters. That’s what Christ would do, IMO.







Unfortunately such a switch to helping “the least of these” will likely NOT happen with God’s money given to the church, so I prefer finding more honest, reputable ways to help:
https://www.charitynavigator.org/

abijah` wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 11:14 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:03 pm Humanitarian service mission education, training & service headquarters. That’s what Christ would do, IMO.







Unfortunately such a switch to helping “the least of these” will likely NOT happen with God’s money given to the church, so I prefer finding more honest, reputable ways to help:
https://www.charitynavigator.org/

the hunger situation is the result of a defective culture which is the result of bad parenting. there has been a massive abundance of space and natural resources for years and years and years for africans to learn how to farm like all the other more successful and less-hungry peoples around the world have, but they never have.

stop spamming like jesus went around telling people to work and give away that substance to feed other peoples kids half a world away because they are too lazy to do it themselves

these kids who are dying, its terrible - but the solution is not to import foreign resources, utterly anti-self reliance. the solution is to fix the problem with african fathers who have zero issue producing children (which other, wealthier nations now do) but somehow cant seem to produce food with which to feed those children, and you cant do that half a world away, at least in addressing the actual problem and not the mere symptom. local social problems cant be fixed by foreign economic imports - to suppose they can is really superficial thinking, thinker.

you arent preaching charity. you arent preaching what jesus taught.

justme wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:56 pm

ori wrote: ↑February 26th, 2020, 12:38 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑February 25th, 2020, 9:32 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 5:01 pm What is the purpose of BYU?

I looked more into this and found the following information:

"President Young saw the dangers of false philosophies and desired Church schools to combat them. The two primary concerns that rested upon President Young were evolution (Darwinian evolution) and Marxism (socialism/communism). The Presidents of the Church have continually warned of the dangers of teaching that man descended from lower forms of life and President Young was no exception. President Young felt that the theories of Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley, who was known as “Darwin’s Bulldog” for his advocacy of the theories of organic evolution, were corrupting the youth among the Saints in his day. Another prominent Darwinist, Louis Compton Miall, was also noted as a threat to the youth. Because of this, President Young used his own financial means to create an academy where these false philosophies could be refuted. This Academy was named Brigham Young Academy and later became Brigham Young University. Brother Hugh Nibley once commented that the purpose of Brigham Young University as envisioned by Brigham Young was to confront the false doctrines promoted in Darwinian evolution."
- Joseph Smith Foundation


“We have enough and to spare, at present in these mountains, of schools where young infidels are made because the teachers are so tender-footed that they dare not mention the principles of the gospel to their pupils, but have no hesitancy in introducing into the classroom the theories of Huxley, of Darwin, or of Miall, and the false political economy which contends against co-operation and the United Order . . . this course I am resolutely and uncompromisingly opposed to, and I hope to see the day when the doctrines of the gospel will be taught in all our schools, when the revelation of the Lord will be our texts, and our books will be written and manufactured by ourselves and in our own midst. As a beginning in this direction I have endowed the Brigham Young Academy at Provo.”
Brigham Young


We have no choice at BYU except to “hold the line” regarding gospel standards and values and to draw men and women from other campuses also–all we can–into this same posture, for people entangled in sin are not free. In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom. We do not resist such ideas because we fear them, but because they are false. . . . When the pressures mount for us to follow the false ways of the world, we hope in the years yet future that those who are part of this University and the Church Educational System will not attempt to counsel the Board of Trustees to follow in false ways. We want, through your administration, to receive all your suggestions for making BYU even better. I hope none will presume on the prerogatives of the prophets of God to set the basic direction for this University. No man comes to the demanding position of the Presidency of the Church except his heart and mind are constantly open to the impressions, insights, and revelations of God.”
Spencer W. Kimball


Did you see that by Kimball?
"In this University (that may to some of our critics seem unfree) there will be real individual freedom. Freedom from worldly ideologies and concepts unshackles man far more than he knows. It is the truth that sets men free. BYU, in its second century, must become the last remaining bastion of resistance to the invading ideologies that seek control of curriculum as well as classroom."

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. My how hard we've stumbled.

Don't many of the apostles personally believe in universal common ancestry? And if not that, then common ancestry for all living things except humans?

What you quoted above is interesting because BYU absolutely does teach evolution. Brigham has been rolling in his grave for decades.

The board of trustees no doubt approves of the teaching of evolution.

Four of the current Q15 were university presidents. There is no question that the board approves of the teaching of evolution.