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The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:09 am
by Benaishtart
The church needs to split up.
The church currently has a fast moving cancer among its ranks. To prevent the cancer from killing the body the tumors have to be removed
A conservative true believing church and a liberal snowflake church.
The conservative church would get most of the land, temples, and majority of non-US members. We’d actively maintain missionary and temple work. We would actively focus on building Zion and wouldn’t care one bit what the world cared about. It’d be like 1980’s Mormonism. A lot of service would be done in local communities.
The Liberal church would be free to have female ordination and gay sealings. They'd have BYU. They’d have most of the church’s liquid assets and all the worldly and feminist and liberal members. Most members would be in developed countries. Pretty quickly they’d be very similar to the Community of Christ. They’d do whatever they want with all their telestial power.
The hard part would be the divorce. It’s divide families, communities, and wards. But after a few years it’d be better for all of us if we want to truly be one and build Zion.
Now do you believe that this could or would ever happen? I didn’t think so until a few months ago but now many others are having the same thoughts.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:11 am
by markharr
I believe its called the seperating of the wheat and tares.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:14 am
by Benaishtart
What can we do to facilitate it without the disillusionment of truly converted people?
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:25 am
by EmmaLee
Benaishtart wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:09 am
The church needs to split up.
The church currently has a fast moving cancer among its ranks. To prevent the cancer from killing the body the tumors have to be removed
***
The hard part would be the divorce. It’s divide families, communities, and wards. But after a few years it’d be better for all of us if we want to truly be one and build Zion.
Now do you believe that this could or would ever happen? I didn’t think so until a few months ago but now many others are having the same thoughts.
Of course it will happen - it's prophesied to in the scriptures. It already is happening in most LDS families and wards, that I'm aware of - just not as a 'formal', legal division (yet).
Luke 12:51-53: Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:31 am
by johnBob
Benaishtart wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:09 am
The church needs to split up.
I for one am glad people are finally starting to actually think about this. I've thought about it for several years.
A big problem however is assets. If you think the prog mo's would allow believers in no homosexuality to leave the Church will the Temples you got another thing coming! They want the whole enchilada. Look at how many times I've proposed splitting with thestock. It is not an option. They want all the Temples and all the assets.
Even if you just gave me one Temple I'd be happy.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:34 am
by Alaris
"They could have BYU" lol.
Man........
.....
Perhaps this is why Utah is in fact outside the borders of Zion.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:37 am
by Serragon
When splits occur, it is never amicable. There will be no division of property.
Since the progressive ideals are those being championed by the church, it is the progressives who will inherit the property. If a split occurs, it will be the conservative wing leaving, not the other way around.
Perhaps we will see a situation akin to Alma and King Noah. Will one of the 12 have the gumption to stand up and rebuke what is happening?
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:42 am
by Luke
We only need one temple, maybe two or three, anyway. The elect should be gathered into one physical location.
Also that liberal Church exists, and its name is the Community of Christ.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:44 am
by johnBob
Serragon wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:37 am
When splits occur, it is never amicable. There will be no division of property.
Since the progressive ideals are those being championed by the church, it is the progressives who will inherit the property. If a split occurs, it will be the conservative wing leaving, not the other way around.
Perhaps we will see a situation akin to Alma and King Noah. Will one of the 12 have the gumption to stand up and rebuke what is happening?
The biggest problem with a split is in order for it to have any gravitas, you need one of the 12 to split with you.
The only way that is going to happen for right now is for the Church to swing full tilt one way and then hard reverse another . . .then and only then might you get one of the 12 breaking off.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:45 am
by johnBob
Luke wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:42 am
We only need one temple, maybe two or three, anyway. The elect should be gathered into one physical location.
Also that liberal Church exists, and its name is the Community of Christ.
We will join with them . . or them with us we can join properties and get back the land in Missouri!
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 11:58 am
by Lizzy60
johnBob wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:44 am
Serragon wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:37 am
When splits occur, it is never amicable. There will be no division of property.
Since the progressive ideals are those being championed by the church, it is the progressives who will inherit the property. If a split occurs, it will be the conservative wing leaving, not the other way around.
Perhaps we will see a situation akin to Alma and King Noah. Will one of the 12 have the gumption to stand up and rebuke what is happening?
The biggest problem with a split is in order for it to have any gravitas, you need one of the 12 to split with you.
The only way that is going to happen for right now is for the Church to swing full tilt one way and then hard reverse another . . .then and only then might you get one of the 12 breaking off.
You might get one or some of the Q12 breaking off, but you might not. When the One Mighty and Strong begins his ministry, speaking with true power and authority (the tongue of angels) there will be no need for a current member of the 12 or any other authority currently set apart. Those with ears to hear will know by what power the Servant speaks. Those who "need" a current Q15 person in order to feel okay, will be as deaf and blind as they are now.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 12:14 pm
by johnBob
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:58 am
johnBob wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:44 am
Serragon wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:37 am
When splits occur, it is never amicable. There will be no division of property.
Since the progressive ideals are those being championed by the church, it is the progressives who will inherit the property. If a split occurs, it will be the conservative wing leaving, not the other way around.
Perhaps we will see a situation akin to Alma and King Noah. Will one of the 12 have the gumption to stand up and rebuke what is happening?
The biggest problem with a split is in order for it to have any gravitas, you need one of the 12 to split with you.
The only way that is going to happen for right now is for the Church to swing full tilt one way and then hard reverse another . . .then and only then might you get one of the 12 breaking off.
You might get one or some of the Q12 breaking off, but you might not. When the One Mighty and Strong begins his ministry, speaking with true power and authority (the tongue of angels) there will be no need for a current member of the 12 or any other authority currently set apart. Those with ears to hear will know by what power the Servant speaks. Those who "need" a current Q15 person in order to feel okay, will be as deaf and blind as they are now.
That's a great point!
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 12:17 pm
by Zathura
johnBob wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:44 am
Serragon wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:37 am
When splits occur, it is never amicable. There will be no division of property.
Since the progressive ideals are those being championed by the church, it is the progressives who will inherit the property. If a split occurs, it will be the conservative wing leaving, not the other way around.
Perhaps we will see a situation akin to Alma and King Noah. Will one of the 12 have the gumption to stand up and rebuke what is happening?
The biggest problem with a split is in order for it to have any gravitas, you need one of the 12 to split with you.
The only way that is going to happen for right now is for the Church to swing full tilt one way and then hard reverse another . . .then and only then might you get one of the 12 breaking off.
#imwithdeiter
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 12:26 pm
by Alaris
According to Revelation 12 the woman, who represents the church along one line of symbolism, is taken into the wilderness where she is nourished. Lizzy60 is spot on, but I wonder what is meant by going into the wilderness. To me that reads like the church will no longer be present or accessible.
Consider also the church has always brought us to the temple where the learning depends solely based off one's own lamp. Consider when the OMAS is unveiled, ones individual ability to perceive will be required.
Consider the Davidic Covenant is about a man made holy. Holiness to the lord and gold link the high priest of Israel to the statue that stands atop... At the apex of most our temples. "He will build me a temple" may be a reference to this man.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Behold the tabernacle of God is with them....
The church brings us to the temple
The temple is the man child
Ezekiel 37:over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 1:22 pm
by JohnnyL
Benaishtart wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:09 am
The church needs to split up.
The church currently has a fast moving cancer among its ranks. To prevent the cancer from killing the body the tumors have to be removed
A conservative true believing church and a liberal snowflake church.
The conservative church would get most of the land, temples, and majority of non-US members. We’d actively maintain missionary and temple work. We would actively focus on building Zion and wouldn’t care one bit what the world cared about. It’d be like 1980’s Mormonism. A lot of service would be done in local communities.
The Liberal church would be free to have female ordination and gay sealings. They'd have BYU. They’d have most of the church’s liquid assets and all the worldly and feminist and liberal members. Most members would be in developed countries. Pretty quickly they’d be very similar to the Community of Christ. They’d do whatever they want with all their telestial power.
The hard part would be the divorce. It’s divide families, communities, and wards. But after a few years it’d be better for all of us if we want to truly be one and build Zion.
Now do you believe that this could or would ever happen? I didn’t think so until a few months ago but now many others are having the same thoughts.
It has been happening, happens now, and will happen in a very major way, but it will be what happened many times in the BoM--those dissatisfied with the Church will leave.
A plague or such might do it, too .
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 1:31 pm
by 4Joshua8
Benaishtart wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 11:09 am
The church needs to split up.
The church currently has a fast moving cancer among its ranks. To prevent the cancer from killing the body the tumors have to be removed
A conservative true believing church and a liberal snowflake church.
The conservative church would get most of the land, temples, and majority of non-US members. We’d actively maintain missionary and temple work. We would actively focus on building Zion and wouldn’t care one bit what the world cared about. It’d be like 1980’s Mormonism. A lot of service would be done in local communities.
The Liberal church would be free to have female ordination and gay sealings. They'd have BYU. They’d have most of the church’s liquid assets and all the worldly and feminist and liberal members. Most members would be in developed countries. Pretty quickly they’d be very similar to the Community of Christ. They’d do whatever they want with all their telestial power.
The hard part would be the divorce. It’s divide families, communities, and wards. But after a few years it’d be better for all of us if we want to truly be one and build Zion.
Now do you believe that this could or would ever happen? I didn’t think so until a few months ago but now many others are having the same thoughts.
This "divorce" will most definitely happen, although I'm unsure of the degree of its formality. Wheat and tares. 5 foolish virgins. Etc.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 1:51 pm
by PickleRick
Just join the church of the firstborn and avoid the drama.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 3:56 pm
by Matchmaker
Stay with the Prophet and the majority of the Apostles, and you will have chosen wisely!
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 4:30 pm
by PickleRick
Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 3:56 pm
Stay with the Prophet and the majority of the Apostles, and you will have chosen wisely!
Wow, so simple. I'm sure those raised Catholic are told to "stick with the Pope" etc.
Maybe there is a more universally applicable and fool proof solution.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 4:34 pm
by ori
PickleRick wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 4:30 pm
Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 3:56 pm
Stay with the Prophet and the majority of the Apostles, and you will have chosen wisely!
Wow, so simple. I'm sure those raised Catholic are told to "stick with the Pope" etc.
Maybe there is a more universally applicable and fool proof solution.
As simple as looking at the brazen serpent. But many won't do it.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 4:36 pm
by ori
Propose to the progmos that they get all of the meetinghouses and liquid assets, and the conservatives get the temples and everything else, including all records, and all administrative buildings. I'd say that's fair.
The conservatives wouldn't have anywhere official to meet but for a true Christian that won't be a problem, they can always meet at someone's home (but it would have to be in smaller groups, of course).
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 4:38 pm
by ori
Regarding the woman in the wilderness... I've thought that during the time of the anti-Christ, true disciples won't be able to meet at the meetinghouses anymore. They will have to worship in private.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 4:47 pm
by Aprhys
My prediction that the church will perform sealings of gay couples before 2030 WILL come true. Anyone still doubting this?
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 7:56 pm
by ori
Aprhys wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 4:47 pm
My prediction that the church will perform sealings of gay couples before 2030 WILL come true. Anyone still doubting this?
I doubt it 100%. Perhaps a sealing will happen by a rogue sealer. Or a rogue temple president will allow it.
But there is no way under the sun that the Q15 will officially allow it.
Re: The Church needs to Divorce
Posted: February 21st, 2020, 9:48 pm
by Aprhys
ori wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 7:56 pm
Aprhys wrote: ↑February 21st, 2020, 4:47 pm
My prediction that the church will perform sealings of gay couples before 2030 WILL come true. Anyone still doubting this?
I doubt it 100%. Perhaps a sealing will happen by a rogue sealer. Or a rogue temple president will allow it.
But there is no way under the sun that the Q15 will officially allow it.
Ok Ori, how much would you like to wager on this?