Section 87: A Prophecy on War, Civil War, Great Brittan and W.W.2 and more

[kirtland r.m.]

On Christmas day 1832, while Christians around the world were celebrating the birth of our Savior, along with that, Joseph Smith was receiving a revelation so detailed, and so broad, that by the outbreak of the American Civil War, American newspapers and other sources were quite willing to give some amazing credit.

A month following the artillery rounds fired at Fort Sumter, South Carolina, signaling the start to the Civil War, the Philadelphia Sunday Mercury remarked, "We have in our possession a pamphlet, published at Liverpool, in 1851, containing a selection from the ‘revelations, translations and narrations’ of Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism.” Citing what is now Doctrine and Covenants 87, the paper continued, “The following prophecy is here said to have been made by Smith, on the 25th of December, 1832. In view of our present troubles, this prediction seems to be in progress of fulfillment, whether Joe Smith was a humbug or not.” Though early in the war’s advancement, the paper nevertheless speculated about the prophecy, concluding, “The war began in South Carolina. Insurrections of slaves are already dreaded. Famine will certainly afflict some Southern communities. The interference of Great Britain, on account of the want of cotton, is not improbable, if the war is protracted. In the meantime, a general war in Europe appears to be imminent. Have we not had a prophet among us?' Philadelphia Sunday Mercury, May 5, 1861

In Joseph’s own day, however, in consequence of the information received in section 87, he was commanded by the Lord to write a warning letter to the nation. This he did ten days after receiving section 87. His letter, to a Mr. N. E. Seaton (or, possibly, Sexton) was sent to Rochester, New York, and published in Seaton’s newspaper there. Moreover, Joseph exhorted other persons in his own lifetime to warn their friends and relatives in South Carolina to repent and to flee the carnage that was coming to that area. For example, Wilford Woodruff’s journal for December 30, 1860, records the following: “Brother Emmett Murphy preached in the morning and gave an account of his receiving the gospel, his gathering to Missouri, his visit to Joseph in Prison, [and] the advice of Joseph the Prophet to him to go to South Carolina and Georgia and warn his friends of the wrath and desolation that the people in that land [would suffer] and to gather out his friends to Zion, for the wars and rebellion would begin in South Carolina” (cited in Woodford’s Historical Development, 2:1108).http://ldscleardoctrine.com/Doctrine-an ... ion-87.php

After we had again established ourselves in a new country, and built up a beautiful city, and when all was peaceful and prosperity attending us, this same Prophet, on assembling the Elders of this Church on a certain occasion at Nauvoo, told us that we would have to flee to the Rocky Mountains for safety. The fulfillment of this prediction is apparent to all. I might mention scores of others, and in no instance has that man uttered a single prophecy that either has not already been fulfilled, to the very letter, or will not have its fulfillment in the due time of the Lord.
I will mention another prophecy, which was printed in several languages, and published among the various nations in whose languages it was printed, which was twenty-eight years reaching its fulfillment. The Lord revealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, that there would be a great rebellion between the Northern and Southern States, commencing in the State of South Carolina, and that it should terminate in the death and misery of many souls. This, as you all know, has been literally fulfilled. When I was a boy, I traveled extensively in the United States and the Canadas, preaching this restored Gospel. I had a manuscript copy of this revelation, which I carried in my pocket, and I was in the habit of reading it to the people among whom I traveled and preached. As a general thing the people regarded it as the height of nonsense, saying the Union was too strong to be broken; and I, they said, was led away, the victim of an impostor. Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt, delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, Aug. 26, 1876.


Joseph Smith later prophesied that the coming war would devastate Jackson County, Missouri, for its persecution of the saints so that “the fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation” (Grey, “Joseph Smith and the Civil War,” 20; compare Webb, Battles and Biographies of Missourians, 5; Howard, Illinois, 298). This prophecy was fulfilled in every horrible detailhttp://ldscleardoctrine.com/Doctrine-an ... on-87.php.

In a letter from Mr. A. Saxey of Spanish Fork, Utah to Mr. Junius Wells treating further of the fulfillment of this prophecy, so well attested, Mr. Saxey under date of August 25, 1902 says:

"In the spring of 1862 my regiment went south, and it was during that time that "Order No. 11" was issued, but I was back there again in 1864, during the Price raid, and saw the condition of the country. The duty of executing the order was committed to Colossians W. R. Penick's regiment, and there is no doubt but that he carried it into effect, from the howl the copperhead papers made at the time. I went down the Blue river, we found houses, barns, outbuildings, nearly all burned down, and nothing left standing but the chimneys which had, according to the fashion of the time, been built on the outside of the buildings. I remember very well that the country looked a veritable desolation."
Missouri's problems began not long after the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith.
The Civil War came early to Missouri and Kansas(about ten years before the civil war began, this border war began) stayed late, and was characterized at all times by unremitting and unparalleled brutality. More than anywhere else, it was truly a civil war. Bowen Kerrihard March 1999 issue of America’s Civil War.

The undeclared Kansas-Missouri border war that raged in the 1850shttp://www.historynet.com/americas-civi ... kansas.htm

Here is more info. on the infamous Order No. 11http://www.civilwaronthewesternborder.o ... rder-no-11

Doctrine and Covenants Section 87:3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.

Notice "...even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called...shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations". How very prophetic, Great Britain was not at war in 1832. They would not see a major war for more than seventy more years. Ever hear of "Rule, Britannia!"? In 1832 Britannia still ruled the waves, throughout the world. Although the American Colonists had miraculously sent them packing, they still also had an empire which they say the sun never sat on. They had a fearsome army as well. What an amazing prophesy that they would need to call upon other nations for defense.

Now, take a look at this. I have seen an original copy. Orson Hyde speaks of the twentieth century. In May 1862, at the beginning of the Civil War, in correlation with Joseph Smith's prophecy on Civil War, Orson Hyde, the apostle who dedicated the land of Palestine for the return of the Jews, made a startling prediction which has been literally fulfilled in the next century. He stated: "You have scarcely yet read the preface of your national troubles. Many nations will be drawn into the American maelstrom that now whirls through the land; and after many days, when the demon of war shall have exhausted his strength and madness upon American soil, by the destruction of all that can court or provoke opposition, excite cupidity, inspire revenge, or feed ambition, he will remove his headquarters to the banks of the Rhine.” (Orson Hyde, Millennial Star XXIV, p 274. May 1862.)

Wherever Orson got this revelation describing the next century, directly from the Lord, or from the Prophet Joseph, it is truly amazing. And then there were the Soviet satellite nations rising up against their masters, and even more. This revelation was given as a warning, as all revelation could be described. May we be paying attention.

[Luke]

Always enjoy your posts, thanks

[kirtland r.m.]

Always enjoy your posts, thanks

Thanks Luke, you made my day. Much appreciated, and have a great weekend.

[kirtland r.m.]

George Q. Cannon

The last time the Prophet(Joseph) addressed the people he predicted that peace should be taken from the earth, and that terrible calamities would come upon its inhabitants, and particularly upon our own nation. He predicted what the results would be of the spirit of mobocracy which then raged, and which had caused our expulsion from our homes, if allowed to prevail. Already, the prediction had been recorded by him, twelve years previous to his death, that there would be a rebellion break out in South Carolina, and a fratricidal war commence between the South and the North. The revelation upon this subject had been written [See D&C 87]; it had been published. It was well known to the great bulk of the Latter-day Saints years previous to this. I, when quite a child heard it, and looked for its fulfillment until it came to pass. And this was the case with the body of the people who were familiar with the predictions which had been uttered by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Journal of Discourses 22:135

[pancake]

The 1844 edition of the Doctrine & Covenants, while published after the death of Joseph Smith, was prepared by him, and can be trusted except for section 135, which contains a false report as to how Joseph and Hyrum were killed. Anything published thereafter purporting to be by Joseph or about Joseph is highly suspect. The new men in charge after Joseph revised history to be according to their "new order of things". This video is only a small example of the changes they've been making since Joseph's death:

1844: 103, 105, 112, 119, 124, 127, 128, and 135
1876: 2, 13, 77, 85, 87, 108–111, 113–118, 120–123, 125, 126, 129–132, and 136
1890/1976/1978/1981: 137, 138, OD1, OD2

Rob Fotheringham, having worked at church headquarters for several years, tells us that the church to this day goes out of its way to misrepresent the facts to present the church in the "best possible way". Rob's other videos go into more detail on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7RV8cvnsTHpqXJvT3Uhw/videos

[Niemand]

Although the American Colonists had miraculously sent them packing, they still also had an empire which they say the sun never sat on.

Depends whether you consider French involvement a miracle or not. France's navy was one of the most powerful in the world at the time, and swung the war. It might have been good for the nascent USA, but the cost of the operation also helped bring down the French government. The main British weakness in this context was having to relay orders and munitions etc across an ocean. France helped interrupt that.

A significant proportion, notably those in New York (nicknamed the "Empire State" for a reason), and some Native Americans, were not supportive of US independence. And of those, while some made their peace, large numbers also fled to Canada.

I am not saying US independence was a bad thing, just that there are other aspects to this which are deliberately played down.

You could just as well say Greek independence from the Turks was a miracle, given the odds, but they too received outside help and naval blockades.

The USA played a similar role to the French Navy with the independence of some of Spain's colonies in the West Indies etc.

France certainly played a bigger role in the US War of Independence than the UK did in the Civil War.

[Luke]

The 1844 edition of the Doctrine & Covenants, while published after the death of Joseph Smith, was prepared by him, and can likely be trusted. Anything published thereafter purporting to be by Joseph or about Joseph is highly suspect. The new men in charge after Joseph revised history to be according to their "new order of things". This video is only a small example of the changes they've been making since Joseph's death:

1844: 103, 105, 112, 119, 124, 127, 128, and 135
1876: 2, 13, 77, 85, 87, 108–111, 113–118, 120–123, 125, 126, 129–132, and 136
1890/1976/1978/1981: 137, 138, OD1, OD2

Rob Fotheringham, having worked at church headquarters for several years, tells us that the church to this day goes out of its way to misrepresent the facts to present the church in the "best possible way". Rob's other videos go into more detail on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7RV8cvnsTHpqXJvT3Uhw/videos

Rob gets into his own speculation as well and has to explain away about half a dozen quotes by the Prophet to fit what he wants to push.

[pancake]

The 1844 edition of the Doctrine & Covenants, while published after the death of Joseph Smith, was prepared by him, and can likely be trusted. Anything published thereafter purporting to be by Joseph or about Joseph is highly suspect. The new men in charge after Joseph revised history to be according to their "new order of things". This video is only a small example of the changes they've been making since Joseph's death:

1844: 103, 105, 112, 119, 124, 127, 128, and 135
1876: 2, 13, 77, 85, 87, 108–111, 113–118, 120–123, 125, 126, 129–132, and 136
1890/1976/1978/1981: 137, 138, OD1, OD2

Rob Fotheringham, having worked at church headquarters for several years, tells us that the church to this day goes out of its way to misrepresent the facts to present the church in the "best possible way". Rob's other videos go into more detail on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7RV8cvnsTHpqXJvT3Uhw/videos

Rob gets into his own speculation as well and has to explain away about half a dozen quotes by the Prophet to fit what he wants to push.

Yes. I'm sure everyone can speculate as to why the people who came after Joseph felt the need to cross out things he and Hyrum had said and add in new things here and there. There are quotes of these new leaders saying they had to fix the manuscript to suit "the new order of things". Everyone should really be speculating about this.

[Luke]

The 1844 edition of the Doctrine & Covenants, while published after the death of Joseph Smith, was prepared by him, and can likely be trusted. Anything published thereafter purporting to be by Joseph or about Joseph is highly suspect. The new men in charge after Joseph revised history to be according to their "new order of things". This video is only a small example of the changes they've been making since Joseph's death:

1844: 103, 105, 112, 119, 124, 127, 128, and 135
1876: 2, 13, 77, 85, 87, 108–111, 113–118, 120–123, 125, 126, 129–132, and 136
1890/1976/1978/1981: 137, 138, OD1, OD2

Rob Fotheringham, having worked at church headquarters for several years, tells us that the church to this day goes out of its way to misrepresent the facts to present the church in the "best possible way". Rob's other videos go into more detail on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7RV8cvnsTHpqXJvT3Uhw/videos

Rob gets into his own speculation as well and has to explain away about half a dozen quotes by the Prophet to fit what he wants to push.

Yes. I'm sure everyone can speculate as to why the people who came after Joseph felt the need to cross out things he and Hyrum had said and add in new things here and there. There are quotes of these new leaders saying they had to fix the manuscript to suit "the new order of things". Everyone should really be speculating about this.

Theological speculations I mean.

[kirtland r.m.]

The 1844 edition of the Doctrine & Covenants, while published after the death of Joseph Smith, was prepared by him, and can likely be trusted. Anything published thereafter purporting to be by Joseph or about Joseph is highly suspect. The new men in charge after Joseph revised history to be according to their "new order of things". This video is only a small example of the changes they've been making since Joseph's death:

1844: 103, 105, 112, 119, 124, 127, 128, and 135
1876: 2, 13, 77, 85, 87, 108–111, 113–118, 120–123, 125, 126, 129–132, and 136
1890/1976/1978/1981: 137, 138, OD1, OD2

Rob Fotheringham, having worked at church headquarters for several years, tells us that the church to this day goes out of its way to misrepresent the facts to present the church in the "best possible way". Rob's other videos go into more detail on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7RV8cvnsTHpqXJvT3Uhw/videos

Pancake, I could post lot's more if I had the time but you have questioned this week when Joseph Smith civil war prophesy was first published. A little unsolicited advice, spend more time doing a little real research, and a little less in listening to youtube videos from grumblers.

On Christmas day 1832, while Christians around the world were celebrating the birth of our Savior, along with that, Joseph Smith was receiving a revelation so detailed, and so broad, that by the outbreak of the American Civil War, American newspapers and other sources were quite willing to give some amazing credit.

A month following the artillery rounds fired at Fort Sumter, South Carolina, signaling the start to the Civil War, the Philadelphia Sunday Mercury remarked, "We have in our possession a pamphlet, published at Liverpool, in 1851, containing a selection from the ‘revelations, translations and narrations’ of Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism.” Citing what is now Doctrine and Covenants 87, the paper continued, “The following prophecy is here said to have been made by Smith, on the 25th of December, 1832. In view of our present troubles, this prediction seems to be in progress of fulfillment, whether Joe Smith was a humbug or not.” Though early in the war’s advancement, the paper nevertheless speculated about the prophecy, concluding, “The war began in South Carolina. Insurrections of slaves are already dreaded. Famine will certainly afflict some Southern communities. The interference of Great Britain, on account of the want of cotton, is not improbable, if the war is protracted. In the meantime, a general war in Europe appears to be imminent. Have we not had a prophet among us?' Philadelphia Sunday Mercury, May 5, 1861

In Joseph’s own day, however, in consequence of the information received in section 87, he was commanded by the Lord to write a warning letter to the nation. This he did ten days after receiving section 87. His letter, to a Mr. N. E. Seaton (or, possibly, Sexton) was sent to Rochester, New York, and published in Seaton’s newspaper there. Moreover, Joseph exhorted other persons in his own lifetime to warn their friends and relatives in South Carolina to repent and to flee the carnage that was coming to that area. For example, Wilford Woodruff’s journal for December 30, 1860, records the following: “Brother Emmett Murphy preached in the morning and gave an account of his receiving the gospel, his gathering to Missouri, his visit to Joseph in Prison, [and] the advice of Joseph the Prophet to him to go to South Carolina and Georgia and warn his friends of the wrath and desolation that the people in that land [would suffer] and to gather out his friends to Zion, for the wars and rebellion would begin in South Carolina” (cited in Woodford’s Historical Development, 2:1108).http://ldscleardoctrine.com/Doctrine-an ... ion-87.php

After we had again established ourselves in a new country, and built up a beautiful city, and when all was peaceful and prosperity attending us, this same Prophet, on assembling the Elders of this Church on a certain occasion at Nauvoo, told us that we would have to flee to the Rocky Mountains for safety. The fulfillment of this prediction is apparent to all. I might mention scores of others, and in no instance has that man uttered a single prophecy that either has not already been fulfilled, to the very letter, or will not have its fulfillment in the due time of the Lord.
I will mention another prophecy, which was printed in several languages, and published among the various nations in whose languages it was printed, which was twenty-eight years reaching its fulfillment. The Lord revealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, that there would be a great rebellion between the Northern and Southern States, commencing in the State of South Carolina, and that it should terminate in the death and misery of many souls. This, as you all know, has been literally fulfilled. When I was a boy, I traveled extensively in the United States and the Canadas, preaching this restored Gospel. I had a manuscript copy of this revelation, which I carried in my pocket, and I was in the habit of reading it to the people among whom I traveled and preached. As a general thing the people regarded it as the height of nonsense, saying the Union was too strong to be broken; and I, they said, was led away, the victim of an impostor. Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt, delivered in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, Aug. 26, 1876.


Joseph Smith later prophesied that the coming war would devastate Jackson County, Missouri, for its persecution of the saints so that “the fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation” (Grey, “Joseph Smith and the Civil War,” 20; compare Webb, Battles and Biographies of Missourians, 5; Howard, Illinois, 298). This prophecy was fulfilled in every horrible detailhttp://ldscleardoctrine.com/Doctrine-an ... on-87.php.

In a letter from Mr. A. Saxey of Spanish Fork, Utah to Mr. Junius Wells treating further of the fulfillment of this prophecy, so well attested, Mr. Saxey under date of August 25, 1902 says:

"In the spring of 1862 my regiment went south, and it was during that time that "Order No. 11" was issued, but I was back there again in 1864, during the Price raid, and saw the condition of the country. The duty of executing the order was committed to Colossians W. R. Penick's regiment, and there is no doubt but that he carried it into effect, from the howl the copperhead papers made at the time. I went down the Blue river, we found houses, barns, outbuildings, nearly all burned down, and nothing left standing but the chimneys which had, according to the fashion of the time, been built on the outside of the buildings. I remember very well that the country looked a veritable desolation."
Missouri's problems began not long after the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith.
The Civil War came early to Missouri and Kansas(about ten years before the civil war began, this border war began) stayed late, and was characterized at all times by unremitting and unparalleled brutality. More than anywhere else, it was truly a civil war. Bowen Kerrihard March 1999 issue of America’s Civil War.

The undeclared Kansas-Missouri border war that raged in the 1850shttp://www.historynet.com/americas-civi ... kansas.htm

Here is more info. on the infamous Order No. 11http://www.civilwaronthewesternborder.o ... rder-no-11

Doctrine and Covenants Section 87:3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.

Notice "...even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called...shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations". How very prophetic, Great Britain was not at war in 1832. They would not see a major war for more than seventy more years. Ever hear of "Rule, Britannia!"? In 1832 Britannia still ruled the waves, throughout the world. Although the American Colonists had miraculously sent them packing, they still also had an empire which they say the sun never sat on. They had a fearsome army as well. What an amazing prophesy that they would need to call upon other nations for defense.

Now, take a look at this. I have seen an original copy. Orson Hyde speaks of the twentieth century. In May 1862, at the beginning of the Civil War, in correlation with Joseph Smith's prophecy on Civil War, Orson Hyde, the apostle who dedicated the land of Palestine for the return of the Jews, made a startling prediction which has been literally fulfilled in the next century. He stated: "You have scarcely yet read the preface of your national troubles. Many nations will be drawn into the American maelstrom that now whirls through the land; and after many days, when the demon of war shall have exhausted his strength and madness upon American soil, by the destruction of all that can court or provoke opposition, excite cupidity, inspire revenge, or feed ambition, he will remove his headquarters to the banks of the Rhine.” (Orson Hyde, Millennial Star XXIV, p 274. May 1862.)

Wherever Orson got this revelation describing the next century, directly from the Lord, or from the Prophet Joseph, it is truly amazing. And then there were the Soviet satellite nations rising up against their masters, and even more. This revelation was given as a warning, as all revelation could be described. May we be paying attention.

As for Rob Fotheringham and others with an axe to grind, including your recent section 130, and 132 youtube stuff, I have and will continue

[kirtland r.m.]

a glitch has occurred, so I will just continue here, as for Rob Fotheringham and others with an axe to grind, including your recent section 130 and 132 post, I have and will continue to respond to it. I have put up on this forum a number of quotes by the way, quotes from early saints dispelling false ideas on these subjects. I will be back on this thread to continue to respond to these ideas.

[Oldemandalton]

Now, take a look at this. I have seen an original copy. Orson Hyde speaks of the twentieth century. In May 1862, at the beginning of the Civil War, in correlation with Joseph Smith's prophecy on Civil War, Orson Hyde, the apostle who dedicated the land of Palestine for the return of the Jews, made a startling prediction which has been literally fulfilled in the next century. He stated: "You have scarcely yet read the preface of your national troubles. Many nations will be drawn into the American maelstrom that now whirls through the land; and after many days, when the demon of war shall have exhausted his strength and madness upon American soil, by the destruction of all that can court or provoke opposition, excite cupidity, inspire revenge, or feed ambition, he will remove his headquarters to the banks of the Rhine.” (Orson Hyde, Millennial Star XXIV, p 274. May 1862.)

Wherever Orson got this revelation describing the next century, directly from the Lord, or from the Prophet Joseph, it is truly amazing. And then there were the Soviet satellite nations rising up against their masters, and even more. This revelation was given as a warning, as all revelation could be described. May we be paying attention.

One of my personal beliefs is that we have a Master Mahan alive today.

God has a Law of Opposition in all things. As God was restoring His Church in the 1830s, Satan also restored his church (See: B. of M. Secret Combinations), at the same time, beginning with Marx and German Idealism.

[kirtland r.m.]

Now, take a look at this. I have seen an original copy. Orson Hyde speaks of the twentieth century. In May 1862, at the beginning of the Civil War, in correlation with Joseph Smith's prophecy on Civil War, Orson Hyde, the apostle who dedicated the land of Palestine for the return of the Jews, made a startling prediction which has been literally fulfilled in the next century. He stated: "You have scarcely yet read the preface of your national troubles. Many nations will be drawn into the American maelstrom that now whirls through the land; and after many days, when the demon of war shall have exhausted his strength and madness upon American soil, by the destruction of all that can court or provoke opposition, excite cupidity, inspire revenge, or feed ambition, he will remove his headquarters to the banks of the Rhine.” (Orson Hyde, Millennial Star XXIV, p 274. May 1862.)

Wherever Orson got this revelation describing the next century, directly from the Lord, or from the Prophet Joseph, it is truly amazing. And then there were the Soviet satellite nations rising up against their masters, and even more. This revelation was given as a warning, as all revelation could be described. May we be paying attention.

One of my personal beliefs is that we have a Master Mahan alive today.

God has a Law of Opposition in all things. As God was restoring His Church in the 1830s, Satan also restored his church (See: B. of M. Secret Combinations), at the same time, beginning with Marx and German Idealism.

Some examples of what you are saying. Satan and the occult strive to desecrate holy symbols, human bodies(made in the image of God), the Church, ect.. Seems I have heard some examples of this before. I have been told that Satan even mocks the Lord's Priesthoods, claiming that he has his own. Inverted stars,(pentagrams) and by the way, this ancient symbol was used as a seal for Jerusalem twenty four hundred years ago, can be seen on some latter day Temples. It is very interesting that In the last half of the nineteenth century, just after they began to appear on latter day Temples, Satan, opportunist that he is, began to use them via some of his servants including Allister Crawley, as symbols of evil, thus mocking the newly built Temples.
This has not been lost on latter day enemies of the church, who strive to lead away the Lord's sheep, or anyone else who will listen to them. Yes, they are being told some facts by our informed members about this wrong headed approach to symbolism on the Salt Lake Temple as they gather outside of Temple Square, striving to mislead the saints. I hope they will listen to our members and quit teaching this false doctrine. True knowledge is power. Hope you enjoy this from the Joseph Smith Foundation on this subject.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vjWD6P7ZA0
Latter-day saints are often accused of Satanic worship because the Logan, Salt Lake and Nauvoo temples feature inverted pentagrams on the exterior surface. There are 40 are the Salt Lake Temple alone! Each of the circular windows surrounding the Nauvoo Temple depict an inverted pentagram surrounded by three stones at each of the four cardinal directions. Why would Joseph Smith, the Prophet of the Restoration, place an inverted pentagram on one of the most important early temples? Answered in video through above youtube link.
By the way, it seems modern freemasonry has been influenced and is also not what it once was. That is a topic for another day.

[Niemand]

One of my personal beliefs is that we have a Master Mahan alive today.

God has a Law of Opposition in all things. As God was restoring His Church in the 1830s, Satan also restored his church (See: B. of M. Secret Combinations), at the same time, beginning with Marx and German Idealism.

There are several candidates, but I think such a person likely keeps a low public profile, and operates through fronts. He may technically own almost nothing on paper.

[Oldemandalton]

One of my personal beliefs is that we have a Master Mahan alive today.

God has a Law of Opposition in all things. As God was restoring His Church in the 1830s, Satan also restored his church (See: B. of M. Secret Combinations), at the same time, beginning with Marx and German Idealism.

There are several candidates, but I think such a person likely keeps a low public profile, and operates through fronts. He may technically own almost nothing on paper.

Yep. I think he funds groups and causes that are against God. He may even have an inner circle like our Quorum of the 12 who have literally sold their souls to Satan just like the first Master Mahan and the Gadiantons. Secret oaths included. In fact I'm writing a fictional book about the last days and call my Gadiantons, the Mustirmahani.

[BeNotDeceived]

One of my personal beliefs is that we have a Master Mahan alive today.

God has a Law of Opposition in all things. As God was restoring His Church in the 1830s, Satan also restored his church (See: B. of M. Secret Combinations), at the same time, beginning with Marx and German Idealism.

There are several candidates, but I think such a person likely keeps a low public profile, and operates through fronts. He may technically own almost nothing on paper.

Yep. I think he funds groups and causes that are against God. He may even have an inner circle like our Quorum of the 12 who have literally sold their souls to Satan just like the first Master Mahan and the Gadiantons. Secret oaths included. In fact I'm writing a fictional book about the last days and call my Gadiantons, the Mustirmahani.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

And it profiteth a man more.

Fiction can be fun too, although a friend of the friend of God (she played the role on TV) did indeed audition for, and narrate me little book as per march8miracle.org

[kirtland r.m.]

Here is more information on the Section 87 Prophesy.

The Lord has led this people out of bondage with a high hand and an outstretched arm. No man acquainted with the history of this people is ignorant of the almighty power of God that has been manifested in the organization, growth and present condition of the Church, though they may be unable naturally to account for it. And the more we grow and prosper, the more our enemies are angry with us. They are angry with us because we told them, thirty years ago, that calamity would come upon this nation. Their anger still increases, while they are drinking of the bitter cup; and at the same time the Saints are increasing in numbers, in faith, in hope, in wealth and in power. I have talked with men who professed to be gentlemen and dispensers of life and salvation to the people, who, Pharaoh-like, declared that they would rather be damned than believe that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God. I promised them they should have their choice. Brigham Young, (September 28, 1862) Journal of Discourses 10:4.

I copied a revelation more than twenty-five years ago, in which it is stated that war should be in the south and in the north, and that nation after nation would become embroiled in the tumult and excitement, until war should be poured out upon the whole earth, and that this war would commence at the rebellion of South Carolina, and that times should be such that every man who did not flee to Zion would have to take up the sword against his neighbor or against his brother. These things are beginning to be made manifest, but the end is not yet; but it will come, and that too much sooner than the world of mankind anticipate, and all those things spoken by the mouths of his Prophets will be fulfilled. Wilford Woodruff, (July 27, 1862) Journal of Discourses 10:13.

We are under no necessity of sending forth the Elders of Israel in the condition that we have hitherto had to do; in fact, it would not be safe for a man to shoulder his valise and tramp through the States as the Elders used to do. Bloodshed, robbery, murder, jay-hawking (a polite name for robbery,) stalks abroad throughout the land, and the only chance for safety is for every man to pass along about his business and be silent; this is the case in many parts of the country. The fact that Joseph Smith predicted the present trouble and state of affairs—prophesied the result of mobbing the Saints in Missouri and elsewhere, enrages them; instead of the fulfillment of that prophecy making the people of the country friendly to us, it makes them bloodthirsty, more filled with hell, more eager to waste and destroy and crush out the last remaining particle of truth that may exist on the face of the land. George A. Smith, (April 6, 1863) Journal of Discourses 10:144.

Every student of United States history is acquainted with the facts establishing a complete fulfilment of this prophecy. In 1861, more than twenty-eight years after the foregoing prediction was recorded, and ten years after its publication in England, the Civil War broke out. It is known the Confederate States solicited aid of Great Britain. While no open alliance between the Southern States and the English government was effected, British influence gave indirect assistance and substantial encouragement to the South, and this in such a way as to produce serious international complications. Vessels were built and equipped at British ports in the interests of the Confederacy; and the results of this violation of the laws of neutrality cost Great Britain fifteen and a half millions of dollars, which sum was awarded the United States at the Geneva arbitration in settlement of the Alabama claims. The Confederacy appointed commissioners to Great Britain and France; these appointees were forcibly taken by United States officers from the British steamer on which they had embarked. This act, which the United States government had to admit as overt, threatened for a time to precipitate a war between this nation and Great Britain. James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1981[1899]), 25-26.

[kirtland r.m.]

Missouri suffered greatly during the Civil War. Over 1,200 distinct battles or skirmishes were fought on Missouri soil; only Tennessee and Virginia saw more action on their soil.

Between 1862 and 1864, the western parts of Missouri endured guerrilla warfare. Although guerrilla warfare occurred throughout much of the state, most of the incidents occurred in northern Missouri and were characterized by ambushes of individuals or families in rural areas. These incidents were particularly nefarious because their vigilante nature was outside the command and control of either side and often pitted neighbor against neighbor.

Among the more notorious incidents of guerrilla warfare were the Sacking of Osceola, burning of Platte City and the Centralia Massacre.

In 1863 following the Lawrence Massacre in Kansas, Union General Thomas Ewing, Jr. accused farmers in rural Missouri of either instigating the attack or supporting it. He issued General Order No. 11 which forced the evacuation of all residents of rural areas of the four counties (Jackson, Cass, Bates and Vernon) south of the Missouri River on the Kansas border to leave their property, which was then burned. The order applied to farmers regardless of loyalty, although those who could prove their loyalty to the Union could stay in designated towns and those who could not were exiled entirely.[21]

LDS readers will recognize that Jackson county was notorious for its treatment of the Saints, and it was among those counties from which inhabitants were evacuated and a "scorched earth" policy implemented. The commanding general ordered his men not to engage in looting or other depredations, but he proved unable to effectively control his soldiers, who were mostly Kansans eager to exact any revenge possible upon their Missouri neighbors. Animals and other property were stolen or destroyed, and houses, barns and outbuildings burnt to the ground. The area affected quickly became a devastated "no-man's-land", with only charred chimneys and burnt stubble remaining where once-fertile farms had stood.[22]

If one read's Joseph's prophecy as referring at least partly to the government of Missouri, then it was fulfilled dramatically. Nothing remained in many areas, and government in some areas broke down almost completely as various factions struggled for control. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... _Civil_War