LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 5:10 am**

You are not compelled to pay tithing........do it freely with a glad heart or don't do it.....also you should reevaluate your financial situation.....dave Ramsey has a lot of good advice...maybe you should downsize...live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. A wise steward lives within his means....no one can be excused.....the lord is no respecters of persons....make the choice to not pay...the lord obviously doesn't need your money...….

You're compelled to pay if you want to go to the temple.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 5:42 am**

Y'all are funny. $50M is .05% of the $100B the church has stashed away. It's barely even pocket change.

The best thing is that it purchases a tangible asset that can be used as a farm to employ and feed people. This is money that isn't sitting idle, gaining interest, but is put to work building the kingdom. Heck, it's even better than a mall.

And personally, I think it's kinda cool.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 6:21 am**

Mindfields wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 5:10 am
You are not compelled to pay tithing........do it freely with a glad heart or don't do it.....also you should reevaluate your financial situation.....dave Ramsey has a lot of good advice...maybe you should downsize...live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. A wise steward lives within his means....no one can be excused.....the lord is no respecters of persons....make the choice to not pay...the lord obviously doesn't need your money...….
You're compelled to pay if you want to go to the temple.

no, you're not. you can declare you make $0. tithing is then $0. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 7:19 am**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 3:46 am
Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 4:29 pm
Sunain wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 12:05 pm Wonder if the the church has another $50mil to buy this plot of land. It's really good farming land.

Canada's largest piece of land is up for sale in Manitoba

The largest piece of land in Canada is up for sale in Manitoba, and all 25,900 acres could be yours -- if you have a spare $57 million lying around.

The massive stretch of prairie-flat, cultivated farmland is nestled in the Carrot Valley, near The Pas, Man. It's actually a combination of four family farms put together for sale. The buyer will walk away with not only the topsoil rich land, but the homes, farm buildings, equipment and cattle, which is included in the sale.
I hope the Church buys this land before the Chinese get ahold of it.
Does it have an airstrip?

I don't know. It just seems like a beautiful plot of land that the Church could develop for food production. I don't trust that the Chinese would buy it for that purpose.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 10:13 am**

Christ never stopped the widow from paying; He didn't even tell his Apostles, that she shouldn't be paying. Can you imagine; "Dear sister, don't pay your offering, the leadership mismanages the fund". Hell, I bet this poor lady couldn't even afford the Temple tax.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 11:23 am**

djinwa wrote: ↑February 17th, 2020, 1:31 pm Explain why a family struggling to make their house payment to buy their own property, should feel obligated to pay tithing so someone can make a “good investment” in property.

Apparently the church has a problem of too much money, and has to spend it on something.

If there’s too much money, why not have bishops excuse the poorest from paying?

I guess like government, church can spend our money better than we can.

And some wonder why we’re labeled a cult.

Right, like the college jock with an amazing body who begs the Bishop to exclude him from the Law of Chastity because all the girls want him. It's just not fair and his struggle is real

Tithing is a commandment just like all other commandments. Why is that so hard to understand by so many people? Tithing is a commandment from GOD for the rich and the poor. It's not commanded by the bishop or the stake president or the prophet. Tithing is God's standing law to His people no matter their income.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 11:35 am**

Thinker wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 3:51 pm
mudflap wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:39 am
Mindfields wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:11 am If the Church was a real estate company the comments in this thread would make much more sense.
Good thing it's not "the church" then.
It’s definitely not using funds according to a what Christ asked of the rich, so really the name is just using Christ’s name in vain (to make money etc).

The goal of religions are to expand their influence, a Church's purpose is not to help all the starving people around the world or to solve all human suffering. The Church does give a lot of money to the poor. The Church uses your 10% to grow, how much of the other 90% of your income do you send to the hungry and needy?

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 11:41 am**

"Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?"

I believe that this sentiment will be a standing pillar of the Beast system.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 12:25 pm**

mudflap wrote: ↑February 17th, 2020, 10:30 pm 10% of $0.00 is $0.00. There. That's how you pay $0.00 AND keep your temple recommend.

Wrong. Church leaders have repeatedly corrupted the law of tithing by demanding tithes from those who have no increase & by lying and saying tithes are based on income when that is incorrect.

The following video shows examples of LDS leaders
telling the poor to pay them MONEY over feeding their children. They - and those who follow them - WILL be held accountable.

Lexew1899 made this video:

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 12:32 pm**

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 11:23 am
djinwa wrote: ↑February 17th, 2020, 1:31 pm Explain why a family struggling to make their house payment to buy their own property, should feel obligated to pay tithing so someone can make a “good investment” in property.

Apparently the church has a problem of too much money, and has to spend it on something.

If there’s too much money, why not have bishops excuse the poorest from paying?

I guess like government, church can spend our money better than we can.

And some wonder why we’re labeled a cult.
Right, like the college jock with an amazing body who begs the Bishop to exclude him from the Law of Chastity because all the girls want him. It's just not fair and his struggle is real

Tithing is a commandment just like all other commandments. Why is that so hard to understand by so many people? Tithing is a commandment from GOD for the rich and the poor. It's not commanded by the bishop or the stake president or the prophet. Tithing is God's standing law to His people no matter their income.

This, Basically.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 12:41 pm**

Gage wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 11:35 am The goal of religions are to expand their influence, a Church's purpose is not to help all the starving people around the world or to solve all human suffering. The Church does give a lot of money to the poor. The Church uses your 10% to grow, how much of the other 90% of your income do you send to the hungry and needy?

Churches who disobey Christ have such greedy goals.

How do you know exactly what the church does with money you and others entrust to them as sacred tithes? You don’t, because they keep money dark and secret, except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor, which is against the law of tithing & against Christ’s greatest commandments.

Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

I’m not morally obligated to tell you what I give to the poor, however if you paid tithes to me then I would be accountable to how that money was spent. As it is, many are irresponsibly giving their money blindly - or worse, knowing that funds are being mishandled.

And what commandments of Christ are to be obeyed above “ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS”?? Love others as ourselves and love God, “the least of these.” Who do TITHES belong to? God. And how do we love God? By loving the least of these.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 12:55 pm**

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 11:23 am... Tithing is a commandment from GOD for the rich and the poor... Tithing is God's standing law to His people no matter their income.

I believe you have a good heart and don’t mean to harm those who are already suffering but the belief that tithes are based on income is anti-Christ and immoral. Previously, I also went along with corrupt teachings because “everyone wasn’t doing it” and I’d be punished if I didn’t.

Changing scripture from what it states (“INCREASE”) to mean “income” to get more money, is not of Christ. The reason God commanded tithe be based on increase is shown in the following example:

2 men earn the exact same income amount.
1 man is the sole provider of a family of 7 and after paying bills has no increase left.
2nd man lives with his parents who pay all his bills, so all of his income is increase.
Yet, the church demand$ the $ame amount from each man - thereby causing the 1st family to be poor. Christ was about alleviating poverty and suffering - not causing more.

How evil to take food from starving children! And yet, that’s what church leaders have said to do...

That is contrary to Christ teachings, which said that the greatest commandments are to love others as ourselves and to love God by loving “the least of these.” If you choose to follow Christ over church leaders, what happens? Why would you? What will you win and lose? What did Christ warn about for those who follow him? (Not the easy road, but ultimately best.) Is this the church of Jesus Christ in name only?

The church’s mostly godly strengths are its members and how we love one another. That is awesome! I have often been overwhelmed with love by the many acts of service so many do for each other! And even at the top, some good work is done, I believe. Yet, it’s still a fact that money donations are not handled in moral or Christlike ways.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 1:24 pm**

Thinker wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 12:25 pm
mudflap wrote: ↑February 17th, 2020, 10:30 pm 10% of $0.00 is $0.00. There. That's how you pay $0.00 AND keep your temple recommend.
Wrong. Church leaders have repeatedly corrupted the law of tithing by demanding tithes from those who have no increase & by lying and saying tithes are based on income when that is incorrect.

The following video shows examples of LDS leaders
telling the poor to pay them MONEY over feeding their children. They - and those who follow them - WILL be held accountable.

Lexew1899 made this video:

wow. slow day on ex-mo reddit?

"demanding" & "lying", huh? more like "advocating" and "telling". How they gonna demand and lie - audit you and ask for your tax returns? but whatevs....

so....you're advocating denying blessings from God to the poor. nice. again, 4 Nephi 1:3:

And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

The poor were donating ALL their income to the church - not just 10%. 1-0-0 %. what do you say to that? musta been quite a cult.... Here in the modern church, we're just asking 10%.

But those who advocate denying the poor the blessings of tithing

WILL be held accountable.

I'm sure of it.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 6:48 pm**

Mindfields wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 5:10 am
You are not compelled to pay tithing........do it freely with a glad heart or don't do it.....also you should reevaluate your financial situation.....dave Ramsey has a lot of good advice...maybe you should downsize...live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. A wise steward lives within his means....no one can be excused.....the lord is no respecters of persons....make the choice to not pay...the lord obviously doesn't need your money...….
You're compelled to pay if you want to go to the temple.

If you feel compelled, the spirit of the law is not fulfilled only the letter of the law. I don't think that being compelled to do something brings us the joy, satisfaction or blessings that we would get if we are doing something because we want to. Just a lone opinion from a tithe payer who likes the fact the stewards of the tithing money have not squandered it....maybe in the near future money will be meaningless. Like we are burning greenbacks for warmth.

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 7:03 pm**

JK4Woods wrote: ↑February 14th, 2020, 3:30 pm
Aprhys wrote: ↑February 14th, 2020, 1:20 pm The widows mite at work. LDS Church just bought another ranch in Texas. This ones got its own private airstrip. I wonder how much they will charge to hunt on it?
I’d like to serve a “service mission” for the church.... eradicating the wild feral hog population on this new ranch.

I’d go at it every night for a couple years if need be.

I’d also work up some jerky and smoked bacon to help pay for the cost of bullets and flir googles.

Yes with an helicopter

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 7:06 pm**

Thinker wrote: ↑February 14th, 2020, 8:33 pm
LukeAir2008 wrote: ↑February 14th, 2020, 5:15 pm We must be the only multi-national Corporation that has its own wee Church and religion.
That truth is funny but also sad. Few can beat that scam!

Our church uses children to get money for them, “Ka Ching”.

Ideally, leaders lead by being honest with their fellowman yet...
1) They warped scripture to get more money (tithes are supposed to be based on increase not income).
2) They take from the poor by demanding based on income when the poor have no increase left.
3) They disobey the law of tithing (Deut 14:28-29 - which is not taught in curriculum about tithing) - which states that at least 1/3 of tithes are supposed to be given to the poor.
4) Finances are kept secret except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor.
5) They use the temple to make money - charging for worthiness. This type of thing is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

While we are often pressured and shamed into giving “honest tithes,” church leaders keep money dark and secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor. Funds intended for the poor go to the corporate empire of mormon leaders and we have no clue or say in how it’s spent. We do know the church had some elaborate malls built, and a list of greedy wordly companies using the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Meanwhile, about 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving. Who do TITHES belong to? God. And how do we love God? By loving the least of these.

Grand ribon-cutting opening for another mall (at least 2 now) built using the name of Jesus Christ...

Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

Lol

Posted: **February 18th, 2020, 7:09 pm**

Thinker wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 3:51 pm
mudflap wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:39 am
Mindfields wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:11 am If the Church was a real estate company the comments in this thread would make much more sense.
Good thing it's not "the church" then.
It’s definitely not using funds according to a what Christ asked of the rich, so really the name is just using Christ’s name in vain (to make money etc).

Becouse it is investment to feed those poor nigros

Posted: **February 19th, 2020, 7:35 am**

Becouse it is investment to feed those poor nigros

Thousands perhaps even millions die while the church builds it's portfolio? "nigros" really?

Posted: **February 19th, 2020, 9:25 am**

mudflap wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 1:24 pm
..."demanding" & "lying", huh? more like "advocating" and "telling". How they gonna demand and lie - audit you and ask for your tax returns? but whatevs....

Not being honest about money is a form of lying.
Charging for temple worthiness is a form of demand, and priestcraft.

Using the temple to make money - is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

Posted: **February 19th, 2020, 9:33 am**

TIFI wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 7:09 pmBecouse it is investment to feed those poor nigros

Prove it. You can’t because church leaders are not honest in their dealings with their fellow men, and what we observe is that their priority is making and hoarding money. And many members follow the profit...

Posted: **February 19th, 2020, 9:47 am**

Using the temple to make money - is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

false:

Here are at least 4 pages of times when the Lord expressed his anger:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/sea ... light=true

He seems to really hate it when folks destroy the peace of his people and disregard his prophets (the ones that ask you to pay tithing):

that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.

(your tithing probably funded these search results. doh.)

Posted: **February 19th, 2020, 8:18 pm**

Art Vandelay wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 11:23 am
djinwa wrote: ↑February 17th, 2020, 1:31 pm Explain why a family struggling to make their house payment to buy their own property, should feel obligated to pay tithing so someone can make a “good investment” in property.

Apparently the church has a problem of too much money, and has to spend it on something.

If there’s too much money, why not have bishops excuse the poorest from paying?

I guess like government, church can spend our money better than we can.

And some wonder why we’re labeled a cult.
Right, like the college jock with an amazing body who begs the Bishop to exclude him from the Law of Chastity because all the girls want him. It's just not fair and his struggle is real

Tithing is a commandment just like all other commandments. Why is that so hard to understand by so many people? Tithing is a commandment from GOD for the rich and the poor. It's not commanded by the bishop or the stake president or the prophet. Tithing is God's standing law to His people no matter their income.

We have a prophet who can get new revelation, and change the commandments, or maybe we don't believe that anymore?

Apparently most here are socialists - ironic on a freedom board. Instead of buying some ground and raising your own stuff, we are to send our money to SLC and let them buy land for us, and tell us what to do . And call it a good investment.

How many members have any ground around them to grow anything? It is becoming less and less. Instead of promoting local production, we are to pool money and buy mega-farms that few members can use.

Forget self-reliance - just throw money at investments.

Posted: **February 19th, 2020, 9:59 pm**

mudflap wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 6:21 am
Mindfields wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 5:10 amYou're compelled to pay if you want to go to the temple.
no, you're not. you can declare you make $0. tithing is then $0. Why is this so hard to grasp?

I've heard of people who were denied recommends because they couldn't pay, but to tell you the truth, I had better local leaders than that (leadership roulette), and got my last temple recommend when I was so poor my tithing was zero. I told them, "I'd pay if I could." Perhaps that was the deciding factor?

Posted: **February 22nd, 2020, 1:41 am**

People stop crying over this farm. When shtf you gona bag for the food that comes from it...

Posted: **February 22nd, 2020, 1:44 am**

Thinker wrote: ↑February 19th, 2020, 9:33 am
TIFI wrote: ↑February 18th, 2020, 7:09 pmBecouse it is investment to feed those poor nigros
Prove it. You can’t because church leaders are not honest in their dealings with their fellow men, and what we observe is that their priority is making and hoarding money. And many members follow the profit...

I don't understand what is your problem. We members and the church were always treated like s***, and now that we finally have smart man in leadership positions to do great decision, to bring strength to church so we can be indipended and strong when the winds comes..

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