LDS Freedom Forum

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑February 14th, 2020, 4:27 pm

www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate ... new-owner/

It's beautiful. I noticed this quote:

Uechtritz said the new owners want to keep the property intact. “They are good land stewards, which is what the Fortsons wanted,” he said.

This is how I got my land both times. This is also how I got the trees for my cabin.

I had 20 acres in Idaho with a view of Paris Peak (just north of Bear Lake). The seller was an old cowboy from Colorado. He asked if he could keep his horses on the property after I bought it until he could find new boarding and I said, "keep them there as long as you want." That settled it in his mind.

when I bought my current property in Alabama, the seller asked, "what are you going to do with it?"
"Build a cabin and start a mini-farm". That sold it.

When the new owner of the property next to mine didn't want me cutting any more trees, he soon changed his mind over coffee at the local restaurant in town when he overheard people talking about that guy that was going to "build a cabin out of trees from his own property". That settled it. He told me, 'cut all the trees you want. I want to be a part of your build. I want to see you succeed."

There's a lot of ways to "get ahead" in this world. One of them is integrity.

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑February 15th, 2020, 4:18 pm Speaking of the ability to feed, we do need land.
My faith does not lead me to think the Lord will provide us with roast pigs, bread already buttered, etc.; he will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it—to save the wheat until we have one, two, five, or seven years’ provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to [provide] bread [for] themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety (DBY, 291–92).
More spiritual gold from L.D.S..Org. https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-br ... 1?lang=eng

As he is/was a Jew... definitely not roast pigs.

If the Church was a real estate company the comments in this thread would make much more sense.

Mindfields wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:11 am If the Church was a real estate company the comments in this thread would make much more sense.

Good thing it's not "the church" then.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:02 am

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑February 15th, 2020, 4:18 pm Speaking of the ability to feed, we do need land.
My faith does not lead me to think the Lord will provide us with roast pigs, bread already buttered, etc.; he will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it—to save the wheat until we have one, two, five, or seven years’ provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to [provide] bread [for] themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety (DBY, 291–92).
More spiritual gold from L.D.S..Org. https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-br ... 1?lang=eng

As he is/was a Jew... definitely not roast pigs.

The Atonment made pigs good to go

Wonder if the the church has another $50mil to buy this plot of land. It's really good farming land.

Canada's largest piece of land is up for sale in Manitoba


The largest piece of land in Canada is up for sale in Manitoba, and all 25,900 acres could be yours -- if you have a spare $57 million lying around.

The massive stretch of prairie-flat, cultivated farmland is nestled in the Carrot Valley, near The Pas, Man. It's actually a combination of four family farms put together for sale. The buyer will walk away with not only the topsoil rich land, but the homes, farm buildings, equipment and cattle, which is included in the sale.

That's actually a very wise investment. What's the problem? When you own a ranch, you cut out all the middlemen in the food production and distribution chain. The Lord knows what he's doing.

Remember what happened after Brigham Young told the Relief Society to start storing wheat?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/blo ... r-of-wheat

nightlight wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 10:52 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:02 am

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑February 15th, 2020, 4:18 pm Speaking of the ability to feed, we do need land.
My faith does not lead me to think the Lord will provide us with roast pigs, bread already buttered, etc.; he will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it—to save the wheat until we have one, two, five, or seven years’ provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to [provide] bread [for] themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety (DBY, 291–92).
More spiritual gold from L.D.S..Org. https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-br ... 1?lang=eng

As he is/was a Jew... definitely not roast pigs.

The Atonment made pigs good to go

Glory be! Aren't we all happy about that!

mudflap wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:39 am

Mindfields wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:11 am If the Church was a real estate company the comments in this thread would make much more sense.

Good thing it's not "the church" then.

It’s definitely not using funds according to a what Christ asked of the rich, so really the name is just using Christ’s name in vain (to make money etc).

Sorry, I disagree: I think the church is "doing the most good". You're welcome to not donate. I've been blessed my entire life through donations- whether giving or receiving. I plan to continue.

Sunain wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 12:05 pm Wonder if the the church has another $50mil to buy this plot of land. It's really good farming land.

Canada's largest piece of land is up for sale in Manitoba


The largest piece of land in Canada is up for sale in Manitoba, and all 25,900 acres could be yours -- if you have a spare $57 million lying around.

The massive stretch of prairie-flat, cultivated farmland is nestled in the Carrot Valley, near The Pas, Man. It's actually a combination of four family farms put together for sale. The buyer will walk away with not only the topsoil rich land, but the homes, farm buildings, equipment and cattle, which is included in the sale.

I hope the Church buys this land before the Chinese get ahold of it.

I have no earthly idea why anyone would oppose the church buying farms that generate food......Why? Because they might make a buck to put back into the fund? Or they might employ people who might make a good wage? Or they might be able to feed a lot of people if a terrible disaster were to hit? Or because someone else thinks it excessive and we should just throw the tithing cash at the problem even if their is no ROI....AND PEOPLE STILL STARVE? What is this mentality that causes people to feel this way? I don't know if people know, but zero +zero equals zero no matter what condition feast or famine you may find yourself....on the other hand, prudent investments have value in feast or famine 1+1=2......or when you find you can't eat money....where is the common sense Of our ancestors who walked across the plains with no shoes driving one cow?....begging the Lord to let the cow please make it through the journey........because without the one cow they may have starved and it wouldn't matter if they got through the journey or not.......my ancestor actually did this at eight years old......Seriously what is the mentality that makes sense to squander tithing money on nothing?

Thinker wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 3:51 pm It’s definitely not using funds according to a what Christ asked of the rich, so really the name is just using Christ’s name in vain (to make money etc).

African populations are already artificially inflated enough due to foreign aid. that resulted in a baby boom with no one knowing how to feed themselves. if things go bad in the west we will see mass deaths across africa.

plus, I don’t think Christ is all hot and bothered about the church not dumping cash halfway around the world because the people there can’t seem to feed themselves. you aren’t promoting charity, you’re promoting servitude.

farmerchick wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 9:29 pm I have no earthly idea why anyone would oppose the church buying farms that generate food......Why? Because they might make a buck to put back into the fund? Or they might employ people who might make a good wage? Or they might be able to feed a lot of people if a terrible disaster were to hit? Or because someone else thinks it excessive and we should just throw the tithing cash at the problem even if their is no ROI....AND PEOPLE STILL STARVE? What is this mentality that causes people to feel this way? I don't know if people know, but zero +zero equals zero no matter what condition feast or famine you may find yourself....on the other hand, prudent investments have value in feast or famine 1+1=2......or when you find you can't eat money....where is the common sense Of our ancestors who walked across the plains with no shoes driving one cow?....begging the Lord to let the cow please make it through the journey........because without the one cow they may have starved and it wouldn't matter if they got through the journey or not.......my ancestor actually did this at eight years old......Seriously what is the mentality that makes sense to squander tithing money on nothing?

Exactly my thoughts.

What was the big scam in the 80's - "band-aid" where they sang that song "feed the world" ? What did that do? Make Americans feel good for a few months? What the church is doing is much better.

Members do a lot, and the church leaders help some but not nearly what they’re legally and morally obligated to do.

How do you know this land isn’t for another 3rd materialistic, alcohol-selling shopping mall? And what exactly do our church leaders do that’s so much better than other charity efforts? You don’t know, because Church MONEY is kept dark and secret. Yet Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor, which is against the law of tithing & contrary to Christ’s teachings.

We know - no thanks to the dishonest hiding & hoarding of money by the top church leaders - that the church has NOT been using donations appropriately according to IRS non-profit status charity laws. We know that even besides this recent evidence of financial dishonesty, that:

1) They warped scripture to get more money (tithes are supposed to be based on increase not income).
2) They take from the poor by demanding based on income when the poor have no increase left.
3) They disobey the law of tithing (Deut 14:28-29 - which is not taught in curriculum about tithing) - which states that at least 1/3 of tithes are supposed to be given to the poor.
4) Finances are kept secret except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor.
5) They use the temple to make money - charging for worthiness. This type of thing is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

Extreme poverty has different causes and thus different solutions. I’m not suggesting throwing money at things, but getting to know the area and needs and how to help them toward self-sufficiency. As it has been, the church has not been smart about a lot of humanitarian work - eg: shipping/mailing internationally costs way more than the products being shipped. Buying locally is better. Also, the church’s humanitarian center collecting used clothing and mailing them to poor countries has put local clothing vendors out of business because they couldn’t compete with free. There must be studying things out and investigating to consider consequences - basically they need to treat this like they do their surveys and other research they conduct to get more tithe$.

Why do most people think we’re not Christian? Because we don’t follow Christ’s teachings. Too busy following church leaders no matter what immoral thing they do.

Christ taught the greatest commandments are to love other as ourselves & to love God by loving “the least of these.... ON THESE 2 COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.”

• Matthew 25:

”31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

Why are these most important commandments ignored and disobeyed? Maybe because the church has become more of a multi-billion dollar corporation making profit... than doing Christ’s work.

I have a sister in law who married an African. My mother- and father-in-law have been to Africa. And they have participated in humanitarian efforts there. And I continue to hear stories about how even the “good” people there are dishonest. Seems to me they need the gospel more than anything else. Once the honesty issue is fixed, they will be much more able to receive help.

I fully support the use of tithes to be used for missionary work over humanitarian efforts, if that’s what the Church leadership decides.

ori wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 10:19 pm I have a sister in law who married an African. My mother- and father-in-law have been to Africa. And they have participated in humanitarian efforts there. And I continue to hear stories about how even the “good” people there are dishonest. Seems to me they need the gospel more than anything else. Once the honesty issue is fixed, they will be much more able to receive help.

I fully support the use of tithes to be used for missionary work over humanitarian efforts, if that’s what the Church leadership decides.

Haha!
Why does Utah - the most Mormon state in the US lead the entire nation in Ponzi schemes?

“When Salt Lake attorney Mark Pugsley ran a per-capita analysis of the numbers, Utah topped the list for the most Ponzi schemes — and it's not even close.

Pugsley found Utah has 1.35 Ponzi schemes per 100,000 people. Florida is the next highest state at 0.51 per 100,000 people, nearly two-thirds lower.

"This is a question people have been asking for a long time, 'Is Utah really that bad?'" he said. "This for the first time gives us some quantifiable basis to say yes, we are that bad. Not only are we bad, but we're way worse than anyone else by a long shot...

The state's fraud epidemic has reached such significant proportions that state lawmakers a few years ago created the nation’s first white collar crime offender registry, which includes photos, names and aliases of Utah fraudsters.“
https://www.ksl.com/article/46541729/do ... ted-states

Welfare to work is what needs to happen. The gospel teaches people to have a reap what you sow philosophy. People need a hand up not a hand out. We should help the poor. Nothing to stop anyone from donating to charities that feed the poor. THERE IS NO WAY A group\church or other entity can help anyone unless they are solvent and have resources...…..as far as the fraudsters in Utah go, your right they are a dime a dozen.....and why is that? Because some people want something for nothing....that goes for the fraudsters and their victims...everybody involved gets what they deserve....there is no free lunch...that is a correct principle. A wise steward prepares his house for adversity...…. I'll say this again 0+0=0...…...not hard to figure this out...….

As a kid, we were extremely poor - single mom, minimum wage, 5 kids. As an adult, I've dealt with "the poor" up close and personal for years. - not just through a shelter, but by meeting them in their homes and even camps. I pick up bums from the side of the road a lot and talk to them while I drive. Most of the ones in camps told me they live there because they want to. They have family issues, drug issues, alcohol addictions, mental issues, etc.

I also live in a city where they throw a lot of money at housing. I've taught in schools where maybe 1 or 2 students know their fathers. I've had students tell me straight-faced that their goal in life is to get a baby daddy and live in the projects next door to their mama. They need the baby daddy (and subsequent baby) so they can get approved to live in the projects.

I don't think anyone who has honestly studied this issue thinks throwing money at that problem is going to solve it.

Much like Judas, the naysayers whine:

"Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?"

Explain why a family struggling to make their house payment to buy their own property, should feel obligated to pay tithing so someone can make a “good investment” in property.

Apparently the church has a problem of too much money, and has to spend it on something.

If there’s too much money, why not have bishops excuse the poorest from paying?

I guess like government, church can spend our money better than we can.

And some wonder why we’re labeled a cult.

If you think about it from a King Benjamin perspective, we don't actually "own" anything. Even our breath is borrowed. I find it strange that folks are like, "if we're poor, what are we supposed to pay?" The folks in 4th Nephi had all things in common and there were no rich nor poor among them. That means the rich and the poor paid 100% of their income to the church. And they did so gladly, for the blessings they receive. In our age, they ask 10% (and you even get to declare what that is- I mean, the church has never audited me. How about you?) anyway- they ask 10%, and folks are losing their minds.

The time is coming, and is not far hence, when the Latter-day Saints will get so much knowledge of the things of God that they will be able to bear wealth and control it, and use it to the glory of God; and when that time comes, to use a familiar expression, “the Lord will open the windows of heaven, and pour out a blessing upon them, that there will not be room to receive it.” ~George A Smith, JD 13:292

count me in. Reward of the world is nothing compared to the reward of the Lord, who owns everything anyway.

I don't care what members say about it being smart investing. This type of stuff makes me feel uneasy. Very similar to Muslims. Muslims on a personal level of religion is completely different than a Muslim government. Same with saints. Personally, it is imperative to a man's soul to follow the Savior, then you have this whole other can of worms which is the church and its finances which I am glad I will not be held responsible for at the judgment bar of God. I will follow the Prophet and Christ's teachings but at least this type of thing won't be on my head come judgment day.

djinwa wrote: ↑February 17th, 2020, 1:31 pm Explain why a family struggling to make their house payment to buy their own property, should feel obligated to pay tithing so someone can make a “good investment” in property.

Apparently the church has a problem of too much money, and has to spend it on something.

If there’s too much money, why not have bishops excuse the poorest from paying?

I guess like government, church can spend our money better than we can.

And some wonder why we’re labeled a cult.

You are not compelled to pay tithing........do it freely with a glad heart or don't do it.....also you should reevaluate your financial situation.....dave Ramsey has a lot of good advice...maybe you should downsize...live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. A wise steward lives within his means....no one can be excused.....the lord is no respecters of persons....make the choice to not pay...the lord obviously doesn't need your money...….

10% of $0.00 is $0.00. There. That's how you pay $0.00 AND keep your temple recommend.

But yeah, D&C has plenty of condemnation to go around, even for the poor:

Wo unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite, and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying hold upon other men’s goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands!

Matchmaker wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 4:29 pm

Sunain wrote: ↑February 16th, 2020, 12:05 pm Wonder if the the church has another $50mil to buy this plot of land. It's really good farming land.

Canada's largest piece of land is up for sale in Manitoba


The largest piece of land in Canada is up for sale in Manitoba, and all 25,900 acres could be yours -- if you have a spare $57 million lying around.

The massive stretch of prairie-flat, cultivated farmland is nestled in the Carrot Valley, near The Pas, Man. It's actually a combination of four family farms put together for sale. The buyer will walk away with not only the topsoil rich land, but the homes, farm buildings, equipment and cattle, which is included in the sale.

I hope the Church buys this land before the Chinese get ahold of it.

Does it have an airstrip?