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LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journal

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 2:58 am
by Alexander
Latter-day Saint officials kept the size of the church’s $100 billion investment reserves secret for fear that public knowledge of the fund’s wealth might discourage members from paying tithing, according to the top executive who oversees the account.
For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, tithing — donating 10% of one’s income to the faith — “is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money,” Roger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak Advisors, which manages the denomination’s investing holdings, told The Wall Street Journal.
“So they never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn’t make a contribution,” Clarke said.

Full article here:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/ ... EAKEstJ-cI

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 4:01 am
by cab
TylerDurden wrote: February 9th, 2020, 2:58 am Latter-day Saint officials kept the size of the church’s $100 billion investment reserves secret for fear that public knowledge of the fund’s wealth might discourage members from paying tithing, according to the top executive who oversees the account.
For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, tithing — donating 10% of one’s income to the faith — “is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money,” Roger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak Advisors, which manages the denomination’s investing holdings, told The Wall Street Journal.
“So they never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn’t make a contribution,” Clarke said.

Full article here:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/ ... EAKEstJ-cI


Oh that makes sense. I guess that's why lately I'm feeling a relatively stronger "sense of commitment" towards the poor lately...

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 4:08 am
by Dave62
Ooooh Dear! I might have to go inactive and demand my money back! Oh, boo hoo! Surely there is a way to blame Donald Trump and Climate Change in all of this! (sarcasm)

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 7:34 am
by diligently seeking
the church is Long on tellestial business acumen; short on terrestrial / celestial seership etc. Long on tangible results through production of the flesh— short on production of the gifts of the spirit produced through faith in Christ and the sanctifiying influence of the H.G.

“The birds have their nests the foxes have their holes but the son of man has no where to lay his head”. This was instructive / celestial mind extending expression for Jesus’s disciples to hear.. They could immediately recall the miraculous being ever present for the sufficient needs of life being met for their sanctified full of Faith, mentor... Jesus told them when they similarly are converted / sanctified = have become actual Saints through his atonement having received the baptism of fire and the holy ghost / his spiritual offspring, he told them they too would receive the celestial miraculous and extend ”Strengthen” the hope for others receiving similarly... shortly after fallen in the flesh Peter cut off the soldiers ear in a tellestial natural man way of operating, Peter and his disciple friends received the sanctifying glory -filled -power that was in part the aiding influence of the strength of their Master’s position in this spiritually backward telestial existence. Coming upon the crippled man who plead to receive a tellestial hand out, Peter with John by his side said silver and gold have we none but in the name of Jesus Christ arise and walk...

If we operate under true faith and dependence on Christ we will be put on the path that leads to eternal life through actually having received the Holy Ghost and the attendant gifts that follow. We will be put in a true and actual position because of our “conversion” to give that which is the true strength of this fallen world which is hope in Christ knowing food and raiment and the like will be provided sufficient for our needs because we like king Benjamin’s people are bolstered through faith in Jesus by the H.G. (this is not to say we don’t give that which doth not in a spiritual sense satisfy where we should... we should give such when inspired) ❤️

Let’s live celestial law and like KB’s people and Jesus’s disciples transcend tellestial church membership and become actual Saints through his atonement having received the confidence inducing Holy Ghost to navigate with celestial skill this fallen tellestial world... let’s always be long on the things that matter most... :)

D&C 88

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you who have assembled yourselves together to receive his will concerning you:
2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels rejoice over you; the alms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and are recorded in the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.
3 Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.
4 This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;
5 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son—
6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth;
7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.
8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made;
9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made;
10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.
11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—
13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.
14 Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.
15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.
16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.
17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;
19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;
20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.
21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.
22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.
24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—
26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
33 For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.
34 And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
36 All kingdoms have a law given;
37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.
38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.
40 For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.
41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.
42 And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;
43 And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.
44 And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years—all these are one year with God, but not with man.
45 The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.
46 Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?
47 Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.
48 I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended.
49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.
50 Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.
51 Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field.
52 And he said unto the first: Go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance.
53 And he said unto the second: Go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance.
54 And also unto the third, saying: I will visit you;
55 And unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.
56 And the lord of the field went unto the first in the first hour, and tarried with him all that hour, and he was made glad with the light of the countenance of his lord.
57 And then he withdrew from the first that he might visit the second also, and the third, and the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.
58 And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season—
59 Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last;
60 Every man in his own order, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.
61 Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof—every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made.
62 And again, verily I say unto you, my friends, I leave these sayings with you to ponder in your hearts, with this commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall call upon me while I am near—
63 Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
64 Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you;
65 And if ye ask anything that is not expedient for you, it shall turn unto your condemnation.
66 Behold, that which you hear is as the voice of one crying in the wilderness—in the wilderness, because you cannot see him—my voice, because my voice is Spirit; my Spirit is truth; truth abideth and hath no end; and if it be in you it shall abound.
67 And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things.
68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 8:36 am
by Mindfields
The answer why keeps changing. Why?

And in case anyone forgot. They didn't volunteer the existence of this money they got caught!

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 10:48 am
by Trucker
So...they allowed members to have an incorrect understanding of the financial situation of the church in order to get members to pay their tithing. It was for their own good.

This is real close to blaming the members, which has been used so often in the past. The members made us do it.

I guess there really was nothing else they could do? They had to store the money and invest it unbeknownst to the members. There was nothing else they could do? Increase ward budgets? Hire janitors to clean the toilets like they used to? Pay for youth camps? Really, nothing?

I wonder how well it would go over with my wife if I withheld something from her, or misled her on something, and told her it was for her own good. I don't think she would trust me much anymore.

It's not a healthy situation when the church intentionally (it was their stated reason) withholds the truth of the situation from members. The members can't be trusted with the truth. They must operate under faulty premises.

Is this as far as this approach has gone? Is this a pattern of behavior? Anything else being withheld from the members?

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 11:08 am
by Robin Hood
TylerDurden wrote: February 9th, 2020, 2:58 am Latter-day Saint officials kept the size of the church’s $100 billion investment reserves secret for fear that public knowledge of the fund’s wealth might discourage members from paying tithing, according to the top executive who oversees the account.
For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, tithing — donating 10% of one’s income to the faith — “is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money,” Roger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak Advisors, which manages the denomination’s investing holdings, told The Wall Street Journal.
“So they never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn’t make a contribution,” Clarke said.

Full article here:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/ ... EAKEstJ-cI
Just as I have stated on this forum many times. The church stopped providing financial accounting to the members when they were in difficulties. However, in more recent times they are withheld because of an embarrassment of riches.

Several years ago we needed some carpets replaced in our chapel. I begged and begged facilities management but they wouldn't do it, citing the expense.
All these years later and we still have the same carpet.
I am looking forward to my scheduled meeting with the regional facilities manager later this month!

It will interesting to see if things are loosened up a bit now.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 11:18 am
by PressingForward
Robin Hood wrote: February 9th, 2020, 11:08 am
TylerDurden wrote: February 9th, 2020, 2:58 am Latter-day Saint officials kept the size of the church’s $100 billion investment reserves secret for fear that public knowledge of the fund’s wealth might discourage members from paying tithing, according to the top executive who oversees the account.
For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, tithing — donating 10% of one’s income to the faith — “is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money,” Roger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak Advisors, which manages the denomination’s investing holdings, told The Wall Street Journal.
“So they never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn’t make a contribution,” Clarke said.

Full article here:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/ ... EAKEstJ-cI
Just as I have stated on this forum many times. The church stopped providing financial accounting to the members when they were in difficulties. However, in more recent times they are withheld because of an embarrassment of riches.

Several years ago we needed some carpets replaced in our chapel. I begged and begged facilities management but they wouldn't do it, citing the expense.
All these years later and we still have the same carpet.
I am looking forward to my scheduled meeting with the regional facilities manager later this month!

It will interesting to see if things are loosened up a bit now.
Robin,
I predict that they will be tighter than ever. It’s my belief the Church has too much money in reserves, Mind you, they’ve got other accounts, it would be dumb to have just one investment firm controlling all cash assets..........how much more is floating in investments is the question. I don’t care, however I might not drop 50 new hymn books off in the chapel anonymously.........better to give elsewhere where it is truly needed.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 11:57 am
by markharr
I don't believe anonymous sources anymore. It could be true, but based on the past few years, there is an 80% chance that it's not. The lefts new dirty tricks to have anonymous sources leak the narrative they want to be true.

If whoever leaked this has something to say, come out and say it and allow the accused to have their right to face their accuser.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 1:21 pm
by The East Wind
TylerDurden wrote: February 9th, 2020, 2:58 am Latter-day Saint officials kept the size of the church’s $100 billion investment reserves secret for fear that public knowledge of the fund’s wealth might discourage members from paying tithing, according to the top executive who oversees the account.
For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, tithing — donating 10% of one’s income to the faith — “is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money,” Roger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak Advisors, which manages the denomination’s investing holdings, told The Wall Street Journal.
“So they never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn’t make a contribution,” Clarke said.

Full article here:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/02/08/ ... EAKEstJ-cI
Big deal! Tithing is a commandment and they should consider all aspects of that. Good for the church for worrying about that.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 1:52 pm
by Thinker
TITHES ARE INTENDED,at least in large part, FOR THE POOR. This is reiterated in Genesis 14, Deuteronomy 14 & moreover Christ told the rich to give it all to the poor but noted that they often wouldn’t and thus it would be hard for the rich (like our church) to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many people - including children - are suffering and need help, & I don’t mean US generational welfare abuse but I mean in poor countries where they lack food, clean water, etc.

Most people on this forum are not children - so stop acting like children, hiding behind parental substitute authorities. Do you honestly think if you do wrong out of obedience to following man over God, that is ok? Sorry to be so bluntly harsh, but Christ said it even more plain:

Image

Grand ribon-cutting opening for another mall (at least 2 now) built using the name of Jesus Christ...
Image

Image

Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

Image

For a long time before this documented news about the church’s financial corruption, there have been unethical behavior from those up top the Lds church.

1) They warped scripture to get more money (tithes are supposed to be based on increase not income).
2) They take from the poor by demanding based on income when the poor have no increase left.
3) They disobey the law of tithing (Deut 14:28-29 - which is not taught in curriculum about tithing) - which states that at least 1/3 of tithes are supposed to be given to the poor.
4) Finances are kept secret except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor.
5) They use the temple to make money - charging for worthiness. This type of thing is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

Image

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 2:00 pm
by PressingForward
markharr wrote: February 9th, 2020, 11:57 am I don't believe anonymous sources anymore. It could be true, but based on the past few years, there is an 80% chance that it's not. The lefts new dirty tricks to have anonymous sources leak the narrative they want to be true.

If whoever leaked this has something to say, come out and say it and allow the accused to have their right to face their accuser.
Mark,
Anonymous? Ok, Rodger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak, is quoted in the article.....did you read it? Most damaging is his admission to multiple shell companies in order to mask investments..........
Bad things went on here, maybe by good people with good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It is ok to lie, if it forwards the work of the Lord? Seriously, at that point, would it be the work of the Lord.
I’ve got a brother who won’t read anything printed in the SLCTrib, but considers everything in Deseret News and ldsliving to be gospel doctrine.......very Cultish....

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 3:00 pm
by Mindfields
At first they said they were saving the money for the second coming. Now it's to keep the members in line with tithing. This is the kind of thing that happens when you're lying. The membership should be up in arms rather than trying to justify every rubbish thing they do.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 3:23 pm
by markharr
PressingForward wrote: February 9th, 2020, 2:00 pm
markharr wrote: February 9th, 2020, 11:57 am I don't believe anonymous sources anymore. It could be true, but based on the past few years, there is an 80% chance that it's not. The lefts new dirty tricks to have anonymous sources leak the narrative they want to be true.

If whoever leaked this has something to say, come out and say it and allow the accused to have their right to face their accuser.
Mark,
Anonymous? Ok, Rodger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak, is quoted in the article.....did you read it? Most damaging is his admission to multiple shell companies in order to mask investments..........
Bad things went on here, maybe by good people with good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It is ok to lie, if it forwards the work of the Lord? Seriously, at that point, would it be the work of the Lord.
I’ve got a brother who won’t read anything printed in the SLCTrib, but considers everything in Deseret News and ldsliving to be gospel doctrine.......very Cultish....
This is an attempt by the left to end the tax exempt status of the church so they can get their hands on as much of that money as possible and that's all it is.

For those of you who thought that if we placated the left on the homosexual agenda they would leave us alone you can see how well that worked out

The left will not be placated until they have 100% control over every aspect of your life.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 3:32 pm
by David13
Thinker wrote: February 9th, 2020, 1:52 pm TITHES ARE INTENDED,at least in large part, FOR THE POOR[/



...







Thinker

The church does feed the poor, and clothe them, and otherwise provide for them. To an extent.

But it cannot be all the time in all cases without limit for the entire world.

If that were done the 100B would last about two months. And the people would still be hungry, would still need more clothes, and would still be sick.

So the church does some things within reason.

Working for Deseret Industries is far better than being on welfare, food stamps, etc.
dc

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 3:57 pm
by kirtland r.m.
It is my responsibility to pay tithes and offerings to the Church. It is their responsibility to spend them righteously. I am going to worry about my part of the Lord's work, and not give up. They are accountable for theirs. I do not claim to have revelation on what they should be doing other than what is in the scriptures. I do not claim to know how or when materials including cash is to be gathered for seen and unforeseen events, like the massive building of the New Jerusalem. Therefore, I will be concerned with my stewardship, and trust in the Lord. I am feeling great about that choice and decision.
That feeling of peace and joy will never leave me. What more can I say. Thank you Lord for precious perspective.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 3:58 pm
by The East Wind
Thinker wrote: February 9th, 2020, 1:52 pm TITHES ARE INTENDED,at least in large part, FOR THE POOR. This is reiterated in Genesis 14, Deuteronomy 14 & moreover Christ told the rich to give it all to the poor but noted that they often wouldn’t and thus it would be hard for the rich (like our church) to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many people - including children - are suffering and need help, & I don’t mean US generational welfare abuse but I mean in poor countries where they lack food, clean water, etc.

Most people on this forum are not children - so stop acting like children, hiding behind parental substitute authorities. Do you honestly think if you do wrong out of obedience to following man over God, that is ok? Sorry to be so bluntly harsh, but Christ said it even more plain:

Image

Grand ribon-cutting opening for another mall (at least 2 now) built using the name of Jesus Christ...
Image

Image

Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

Image

For a long time before this documented news about the church’s financial corruption, there have been unethical behavior from those up top the Lds church.

1) They warped scripture to get more money (tithes are supposed to be based on increase not income).
2) They take from the poor by demanding based on income when the poor have no increase left.
3) They disobey the law of tithing (Deut 14:28-29 - which is not taught in curriculum about tithing) - which states that at least 1/3 of tithes are supposed to be given to the poor.
4) Finances are kept secret except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor.
5) They use the temple to make money - charging for worthiness. This type of thing is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

Image
I don’t fully agree with you but I love your honesty and passion on this. I can tell it really means a lot to you.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 4:41 pm
by PressingForward
markharr wrote: February 9th, 2020, 3:23 pm
PressingForward wrote: February 9th, 2020, 2:00 pm
markharr wrote: February 9th, 2020, 11:57 am I don't believe anonymous sources anymore. It could be true, but based on the past few years, there is an 80% chance that it's not. The lefts new dirty tricks to have anonymous sources leak the narrative they want to be true.

If whoever leaked this has something to say, come out and say it and allow the accused to have their right to face their accuser.
Mark,
Anonymous? Ok, Rodger Clarke, head of Ensign Peak, is quoted in the article.....did you read it? Most damaging is his admission to multiple shell companies in order to mask investments..........
Bad things went on here, maybe by good people with good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It is ok to lie, if it forwards the work of the Lord? Seriously, at that point, would it be the work of the Lord.
I’ve got a brother who won’t read anything printed in the SLCTrib, but considers everything in Deseret News and ldsliving to be gospel doctrine.......very Cultish....
This is an attempt by the left to end the tax exempt status of the church so they can get their hands on as much of that money as possible and that's all it is.

For those of you who thought that if we placated the left on the homosexual agenda they would leave us alone you can see how well that worked out

The left will not be placated until they have 100% control over every aspect of your life.
I don’t have a clue as to what if any motive there is here other than maybe someone thinking there is a little much “saving” going on. I will admit that using tax exempt monies to build a mall and save an insurance company is frankly BS and not what the exemption was designed for.
I’m a big voice against the placating of the homosexual agenda, and frankly it’s why I’m not a fan of D. Todd Christofferson......
I will pay my tithing, but I also believe I have every right to expect the Church to be more forthright with their actions and will speak up. I don’t need to check any obedient box for church!

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 9th, 2020, 4:47 pm
by Silver Pie
PressingForward wrote: February 9th, 2020, 11:18 am I predict that they will be tighter than ever. It’s my belief the Church has too much money in reserves, Mind you, they’ve got other accounts, it would be dumb to have just one investment firm controlling all cash assets..........how much more is floating in investments is the question. I don’t care, however I might not drop 50 new hymn books off in the chapel anonymously.........better to give elsewhere where it is truly needed.
Well, they're going to be saving millions because they dropped Boy Scouts.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 10th, 2020, 1:03 am
by Trucker
The East Wind wrote: February 9th, 2020, 3:58 pm
Thinker wrote: February 9th, 2020, 1:52 pm TITHES ARE INTENDED,at least in large part, FOR THE POOR. This is reiterated in Genesis 14, Deuteronomy 14 & moreover Christ told the rich to give it all to the poor but noted that they often wouldn’t and thus it would be hard for the rich (like our church) to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many people - including children - are suffering and need help, & I don’t mean US generational welfare abuse but I mean in poor countries where they lack food, clean water, etc.

Most people on this forum are not children - so stop acting like children, hiding behind parental substitute authorities. Do you honestly think if you do wrong out of obedience to following man over God, that is ok? Sorry to be so bluntly harsh, but Christ said it even more plain:

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Grand ribon-cutting opening for another mall (at least 2 now) built using the name of Jesus Christ...
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Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

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For a long time before this documented news about the church’s financial corruption, there have been unethical behavior from those up top the Lds church.

1) They warped scripture to get more money (tithes are supposed to be based on increase not income).
2) They take from the poor by demanding based on income when the poor have no increase left.
3) They disobey the law of tithing (Deut 14:28-29 - which is not taught in curriculum about tithing) - which states that at least 1/3 of tithes are supposed to be given to the poor.
4) Finances are kept secret except Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor.
5) They use the temple to make money - charging for worthiness. This type of thing is the only time on record when Jesus expressed anger.

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I don’t fully agree with you but I love your honesty and passion on this. I can tell it really means a lot to you.
This is why a required 10% is so problematic. 10% is no small amount, and the members have no say in how it is used. If members want to donate to charity or humanitarian efforts, it has to be done after already paying 10% to the church. I think most members just pay 10% and perhaps a little extra somewhere, so they miss out on the experience of voluntarily donating to causes. I think it contributes to being a slothful servant that doesn't take enough thought and just whatever he is commanded.

I am not saying it is as bad as heavy taxation, but a smilier effect occurs when a government taxes 50% of everything you make and then provides a bunch of services for you. You don't really have the option of choosing the services you want anymore.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 10th, 2020, 3:05 am
by Aprhys
kirtland r.m. wrote: February 9th, 2020, 3:57 pm It is my responsibility to pay tithes and offerings to the Church. It is their responsibility to spend them righteously. I am going to worry about my part of the Lord's work, and not give up. They are accountable for theirs. I do not claim to have revelation on what they should be doing other than what is in the scriptures. I do not claim to know how or when materials including cash is to be gathered for seen and unforeseen events, like the massive building of the New Jerusalem. Therefore, I will be concerned with my stewardship, and trust in the Lord. I am feeling great about that choice and decision.
That feeling of peace and joy will never leave me. What more can I say. Thank you Lord for precious perspective.
My goodness! I believe that this is the biggest copout I have ever read on LdsFF. So your son is a drug addict yet you are commanded to provide for your family. Do you keep giving your son money knowing he is blowing it on meth? You have proof that the church is being a poor steward of your tithing yet you keep fueling their greed while your fellow man goes hungry, naked and sick all because you believe your tithing has to go to one specific group rather than to where it would be best used? Congratulations on your eternal reward of a $250,000 chandelier.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 10th, 2020, 3:42 am
by The East Wind
Aprhys wrote: February 10th, 2020, 3:05 am
kirtland r.m. wrote: February 9th, 2020, 3:57 pm It is my responsibility to pay tithes and offerings to the Church. It is their responsibility to spend them righteously. I am going to worry about my part of the Lord's work, and not give up. They are accountable for theirs. I do not claim to have revelation on what they should be doing other than what is in the scriptures. I do not claim to know how or when materials including cash is to be gathered for seen and unforeseen events, like the massive building of the New Jerusalem. Therefore, I will be concerned with my stewardship, and trust in the Lord. I am feeling great about that choice and decision.
That feeling of peace and joy will never leave me. What more can I say. Thank you Lord for precious perspective.
My goodness! I believe that this is the biggest copout I have ever read on LdsFF. So your son is a drug addict yet you are commanded to provide for your family. Do you keep giving your son money knowing he is blowing it on meth? You have proof that the church is being a poor steward of your tithing yet you keep fueling their greed while your fellow man goes hungry, naked and sick all because you believe your tithing has to go to one specific group rather than to where it would be best used? Congratulations on your eternal reward of a $250,000 chandelier.
Don’t put words in all of our mouths. You believe they are being poor stewards. I don’t.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 10th, 2020, 6:43 am
by Robin Hood
I have a confession to make. I don't pay fast offering to the church.
The reason for this is that I have seen how it is used, in the main. It's used to pay someone's mortgage payment or their electricity bill etc. These are first world people who are experiencing some first world financial difficulty; but it's clearly not to maintain life but rather lifestyle.

I did it myself. As a bishop I was so busy and pulled so many different ways that when someone came to me with a financial problem I just didn't have time to sit down with them and go through a budget etc. It was just easier and quicker to write a cheque and move on to the next person waiting to see me... probably about something more important.

I started a bishop's store cupboard to accept food donations and started using it to meet the needs of these people. If they couldn't pay their electricity bill I gave them food from the cupboard so they could save money on buying food and use it to pay the electricity company. I saw our welfare fund disbursements fall by 95%!
In other words, a great deal of the fast offering money in used inappropriately.

So I give mine to the Salvation Army.

Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 10th, 2020, 7:40 am
by markharr
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Re: LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journ

Posted: February 10th, 2020, 7:56 am
by EmmaLee
Robin Hood wrote: February 10th, 2020, 6:43 am I have a confession to make. I don't pay fast offering to the church.
The reason for this is that I have seen how it is used, in the main.

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In other words, a great deal of the fast offering money in used inappropriately.
While my husband served as a counselor in bishoprics, and as ward clerk (several times, for several different bishoprics), and currently as the stake clerk, we discovered the same thing, and it is rampant. The final straw for us was a couple years ago when he was told by the bishop to write a check to pay a ward member's CABLE TV bill, and not just once (which would be bad enough), but month after month, as an on-going thing. Not rent/mortgage, not electricity, not water, not food, not gas - but their CABLE bill. So instead of giving cash to the ward to pay for someone's entertainment, we now pray for inspiration/guidance on who in our ward/stake/neighborhood might be struggling and need help (and if no one comes to mind, which rarely happens, we ask the bishop and RS president for suggestions) - then we go buy groceries and leave the bags anonymously on people's porches (which is a blast, honestly!), or we send them a grocery store or gas station gift card in the mail with no return address. We've been doing this for just over 2 years now and it has brought us much joy, and has helped people who actually need help.