LDS Freedom Forum

What is the nature of the Holy Ghost? Is it a man? Is it a woman? Is it neither? Is it both? Is it a role? Is it power?


Here are some links that could help shape your view.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fu ... s-Mind.htm

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hebrew_ ... oly_Spirit

http://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100471.pdf

By the third option I meant:

The mind and power of God shared among Jesus, Father, Mother, and the angels. They use this power and mind to influence your life, therefore it is also a role.

Good question! This is integral to asking, “What is the nature of God?”

My belief in God has evolved, and hopefully will continue to because I don’t expect to be all-knowing to completely comprehend God. Currently, I see God as Heavenly Father and Mother. Anciently, the Dove (Holy Ghost) was Feminine and called Astarte or Sophia. Father, Mother, Child/Son makes more sense than Father, Male HG, Son, in my opinion.



“The kingdom of God is within you”!!! Christ taught that (Luke 17:21) & I have experienced it to be true. But what does that mean? A lot - much I have yet to discover! Carl Jung suggested we inherent psychological or spiritual archetypes - or as he calls it collective unconscious, anima, animas, etc. Gender is distinct as we know by means of how we all were conceived as well and how the world works. Masculine generally involves: competition, certainty, endurance, whole explains parts, thinking.
Feminine generally involves: cooperation, open-mindedness, peak experience, parts explain the whole, feeling.

Masculine needs Feminine and Feminine needs Masculine...
Dark & Light
Water & Fire
Contracting & Expanding
Cold & Warm
Inward & Outward
Passive & Active
Below & Above
Slow & Fast
Intuitive & Logical
Empty & Full
Valley & Mountain

Masculine and Feminine (Heavenly Father & Heavenly Mother) combine in a complimentary manner that creates wholeness. This wholeness is the Divine Masculinity and Femininity that is the basis of all creation - including us! So I answered “other” because the Spirit/Heavenly Mother is integral - inseparable - to Creative Intelligence/Heavenly Father.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:51 am Good question! This is integral to asking, “What is the nature of God?”

My belief in God has evolved, and hopefully will continue to because I don’t expect to be all-knowing to completely comprehend God. Currently, I see God as Heavenly Father and Mother. Anciently, the Dove (Holy Ghost) was Feminine and called Astarte or Sophia. Father, Mother, Child/Son makes more sense than Father, Male HG, Son, in my opinion.



“The kingdom of God is within Christ you”!!! Christ taught that (Luke 17:21) & I have experienced it to be true. But what does that mean? A lot - much I have yet to discover! Carl Jung suggested we inherent psychological or spiritual archetypes - or as he calls it collective unconscious, anima, animas, etc. Gender is distinct as we know by means of how we all were conceived as well and how the world works. Masculine generally involves: competition, certainty, endurance, whole explains parts, thinking.
Feminine generally involves: cooperation, open-mindedness, peak experience, parts explain the whole, feeling.

Masculine needs Feminine and Feminine needs Masculine...
Dark & Light
Water & Fire
Contracting & Expanding
Cold & Warm
Inward & Outward
Passive & Active
Below & Above
Slow & Fast
Intuitive & Logical
Empty & Full
Valley & Mountain

Masculine and Feminine (Heavenly Father & Heavenly Mother) combine in a complimentary manner that creates wholeness. This wholeness is the Divine Masculinity and Femininity that is the basis of all creation - including us!

Very true. Elohim is Male and Female as one. The Father and Mother together in purpose and glory and mind.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:54 am Very true. Elohim is Male and Female as one. The Father and Mother together in purpose and glory and mind.

Thanks for sharing that. I vaguely remember reading that the Hebrew word for Elohim involves both Heavenly Father and Mother. And it makes sense when you think of how God made us in their image - male and female.

• ”God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” - Genesis 1:27

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:06 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:54 am Very true. Elohim is Male and Female as one. The Father and Mother together in purpose and glory and mind.

Thanks for sharing that. I vaguely remember reading that the Hebrew word for Elohim involves both Heavenly Father and Mother. And it makes sense when you think of how God made us in their image - male and female.

• ”God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” - Genesis 1:27

In some parts of the Bible, the feminine plural word meaning “forces,” and the masculine plural word meaning “powers” are used when talking of God.

Also the Aramaic word for the Holy Spirit is feminine. (Ruach) There is definitely a feminine side to God that is not widely known.

I think we'll eventually find that the Holy Ghost is Mother in Heaven.

zionssuburb wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:17 am I think we'll eventually find that the Holy Ghost is Mother in Heaven.

I don't consider Heavenly Mother to be the Holy Ghost. Rather I consider her to jointly occupy the same position/seat as Heavenly Father. Or rather, I consider Heavenly Father and Her to be two halves of the same whole, with God the Father representing that position because he's the Head, while she's the Heart. Two working together as one. Hence why God is considered to have both male and female qualities.

No, the Holy Ghost is yet another Child of Eloheim. The younger brother and adopted son of Jesus, even the Marred Servant. The one destined to become Christ's beloved Son.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:13 am In some parts of the Bible, the feminine plural word meaning “forces,” and the masculine plural word meaning “powers” are used when talking of God.

Also the Aramaic word for the Holy Spirit is feminine. (Ruach) There is definitely a feminine side to God that is not widely known.

Thanks! I’m learning and taking notes - it’s fascinating!

You may have already heard this, but consider that “Israel” is written to imply those who wrestle with God - which is important to do. We need to think and feel through our notions of God/GOoD because often we miss the mark. And within us there are a lot of different forces and powers.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:58 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:13 am In some parts of the Bible, the feminine plural word meaning “forces,” and the masculine plural word meaning “powers” are used when talking of God.

Also the Aramaic word for the Holy Spirit is feminine. (Ruach) There is definitely a feminine side to God that is not widely known.

Thanks! I’m learning and taking notes - it’s fascinating!

You may have already heard this, but consider that “Israel” is written to imply those who wrestle with God - which is important to do. We need to think and feel through our notions of God/GOoD because often we miss the mark. And within us there are a lot of different forces and powers.

Yeah for sure! Here’s another thought. Grammatically the Hebrew word “Elohim” is the plural form of the word “Eloha”.

There are plenty of scriptures and quotes that speak of the person / personage and the power. I'm not sure why some folks believe it's a power only or people plural. I'll grab the long list of Joseph Smith quotes later that attest to both the person and gender of the Holy Ghost.

The lectures of faith do not nullify the above, especially given the fact that there is a power that is in fact executing the mind and will of the Father and the Son. Moreover, Sidney Rigdon was educated as a pastor and may have been the one delivering that message that sounds suspiciously akin to the traditions these people all had just barely left.... which all agreed on the Holy Ghost not being a separate and distinct person.

joseph smith jr seemed to believe he (yes, 'he') is to jehovah as jehovah is to elohim, a "rung" lower on the "ladder" (KFD), the next generation.

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."

fun fact: paul quotes the personage of psalm 95, calls him the "Holy Ghost".

joseph smith jr. quotes the same verse, calls this personage "David", a leader to come in the last days.

The third member of the godhead is male and is who Brigham young thought he was.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:08 pm The third member of the godhead is male and is who Brigham young thought he was.

What do you think of the word “Ruach” (for Spirit of God, or Spirit of Elohim)which is both masculine and feminine, and in the Bible talks sometimes with a masculine voice, and sometimes with a feminine voice?

abijah` wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:02 pm joseph smith jr seemed to believe he (yes, 'he') is to jehovah as jehovah is to elohim, a "rung" lower on the "ladder" (KFD), the next generation.

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."

fun fact: paul quotes the personage of psalm 95, calls him the "Holy Ghost".

joseph smith jr. quotes the same verse, calls this personage "David", a leader to come in the last days.

What does this scripture mean?

D&C 93
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:39 am Yeah for sure! Here’s another thought. Grammatically the Hebrew word “Elohim” is the plural form of the word “Eloha”.

Interesting! Reminds me of “Aloha.”

Carl Jung wrote how the beginning of Judaism’s history, only the Masculine element of God was realized. Not until Job, was the other side discovered. Jung wrote...

”Though conscious of these demands, Job obviously does not know enough about the Sophia who is coeternal with God.

...Thus it was the men of the last few centuries before Christ who, at the gentle touch of the pre-existent Sophia compensate Yahweh and his attitude, and that the same time complete the anamnesis of Wisdom. Taking a highly personified form that is clear proof of her autonomy, Wisdom reveals herself to men as a friendly helper and advocate against Yahweh, and shows them the bright side, the kind, just and amiable aspect of their God.

...Her [Sophia’s] co-existence with Yahweh signifies the perpetual hieros gamos from which worlds are begotten and born.

...The approach of Sophia betokens a new creation. But this time it is not the world that is to be changed; rather it is God who intends to change his own nature. Mankind is not, as before, to be destroyed, but saved.”

Jordan Peterson suggested that Christianity seemed to have gone too soft/feminine, so Revelations is there to remind us of the Masculine side of divinity. One way or the other, “there must needs be opposition in all things.”

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:20 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:08 pm The third member of the godhead is male and is who Brigham young thought he was.

What do you think of the word “Ruach” (for Spirit of God, or Spirit of Elohim)which is both masculine and feminine, and in the Bible talks sometimes with a masculine voice, and sometimes with a feminine voice?

The “spirit of god” does not always have to be referring to actual personage third member of the godhead.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:29 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:20 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:08 pm The third member of the godhead is male and is who Brigham young thought he was.

What do you think of the word “Ruach” (for Spirit of God, or Spirit of Elohim)which is both masculine and feminine, and in the Bible talks sometimes with a masculine voice, and sometimes with a feminine voice?

The “spirit of god” does not always have to be referring to actual personage third member of the godhead.

What or who is it referring to then in those instances? Why is the Spirit a single male person in your eyes?

A personage who acts as the mind of Ahman and YHVH. He delivers their thoughts, words, etc. to us.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:29 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:20 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:08 pm The third member of the godhead is male and is who Brigham young thought he was.

What do you think of the word “Ruach” (for Spirit of God, or Spirit of Elohim)which is both masculine and feminine, and in the Bible talks sometimes with a masculine voice, and sometimes with a feminine voice?

The “spirit of god” does not always have to be referring to actual personage third member of the godhead.

What or who is it referring to then in those instances? Why is the Spirit a single male person in your eyes?

Well the term spirit of god can refer to a lot of things.

I believe the actual personage that is the third in the godhead who we refer to as the Holy Ghost is a male because Joseph smith and Brigham young said it was.

Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:50 pm
Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

What do you mean by patriarchal? Men leading? “As above so below.” No women at all play any roll in this life? In reality, you and I & every human was conceived by both masculine and feminine powers. Feminine did a lot of the work in pregnancy etc.

It seems quite polytheistic to consider 6 in the godhead (wives for each 3). And what makes more sense:
Father, Male HG, Son... or
Father, Mother, Son??

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:01 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:50 pm
Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

What do you mean by patriarchal? Men leading? “As above so below.” No women at all play any roll in this life? In reality, you and I & every human was conceived by both masculine and feminine powers. Feminine did a lot of the work in pregnancy etc.

It seems quite polytheistic to consider 6 in the godhead (wives for each 3). And what makes more sense:
Father, Male HG, Son... or
Father, Mother, Son??

I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most. In this case, I am absolutely willing to say that this is something I will never change my opinion on. The Holy Ghost is male and is Joseph smith.

It was clearly explained by Brigham and Joseph.

And I do believe that of course each gods main wife is their counterpart in the godhead. Heavenly mother is eve, Mary Magdalene is the savioress, and I guess that made Emma the one who was meant to fulfill the role of consort to the Holy Ghost. I’m not sure she did. Maybe things will have to be worked out later.

I am absolutely a polytheist, and I do believe the heavenly ordering is along patriarchal lines. The law of adoption explains this

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:50 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:29 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 12:20 pm

What do you think of the word “Ruach” (for Spirit of God, or Spirit of Elohim)which is both masculine and feminine, and in the Bible talks sometimes with a masculine voice, and sometimes with a feminine voice?

The “spirit of god” does not always have to be referring to actual personage third member of the godhead.

What or who is it referring to then in those instances? Why is the Spirit a single male person in your eyes?

Well the term spirit of god can refer to a lot of things.

I believe the actual personage that is the third in the godhead who we refer to as the Holy Ghost is a male because Joseph smith and Brigham young said it was.

Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

If the term "spirit of God" can refer to a lot of things, then we could not label the holy spirit as one specific thing. Furthermore, if we see that the spirit of God is referred to as male or female, can we appropriately say the spirit of God is only one or the other?

I would hope heaven is not patriarchal, and that women have a major role too. I would hope male and female work together in unity. It would be sad if men ruled over women in heaven. Men and women should rule together in perfect love and harmony.

-Father and Mother.
-Adam and Eve.
-Jesus and Mary.
-Joseph and Emma.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:06 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:01 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:50 pm
Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

What do you mean by patriarchal? Men leading? “As above so below.” No women at all play any roll in this life? In reality, you and I & every human was conceived by both masculine and feminine powers. Feminine did a lot of the work in pregnancy etc.

It seems quite polytheistic to consider 6 in the godhead (wives for each 3). And what makes more sense:
Father, Male HG, Son... or
Father, Mother, Son??

I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most. In this case, I am absolutely willing to say that this is something I will never change my opinion on. The Holy Ghost is male and is Joseph smith.

It was clearly explained by Brigham and Joseph.

And I do believe that of course each gods main wife is their counterpart in the godhead. Heavenly mother is eve, Mary Magdalene is the savioress, and I guess that made Emma the one who was meant to fulfill the role of consort to the Holy Ghost. I’m not sure she did. Maybe things will have to be worked out later.

I am absolutely a polytheist, and I do believe the heavenly ordering is along patriarchal lines. The law of adoption explains this

Interesting. I have two questions.

-Do you believe Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost incarnate?
-Do you agree with Adam-God theory?

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:06 pm I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most.

Don't you believe in thinking, studying and praying to figure things out yourself?

When I was little, I believed whatever my parents said. Then I found out they weren’t perfect and so I switched to believing other authority. Then I discovered they also were flawed and so now I try to not depend on anyone blindly anymore. Not that I try to reinvent the wheel - I do appreciate learning from others - but I don’t trust in anyone as if they’re God.