LDS Freedom Forum

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:10 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:50 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:00 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:29 pm

The “spirit of god” does not always have to be referring to actual personage third member of the godhead.

What or who is it referring to then in those instances? Why is the Spirit a single male person in your eyes?

Well the term spirit of god can refer to a lot of things.

I believe the actual personage that is the third in the godhead who we refer to as the Holy Ghost is a male because Joseph smith and Brigham young said it was.

Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

If the term "spirit of God" can refer to a lot of things, then we could not label the holy spirit as one specific thing. Furthermore, if we see that the spirit of God is referred to as male or female, can we appropriately say the spirit of God is only one or the other?

I would hope heaven is not patriarchal, and that women have a major role too. I would hope male and female work together in unity. It would be sad if men ruled over women in heaven. Men and women should rule together in perfect love and harmony.

-Father and Mother.
-Adam and Eve.
-Jesus and Mary.
-Joseph and Emma.

Yes I agree that they rule together. that isn’t what patriarchal order means

There isn’t a good way to explain everything over the forums.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:17 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:06 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:01 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 2:50 pm
Also because the order of heaven is a patriarchal order. The Holy Ghost is not female but I’m sure his wife is his counter part in importance and role.

What do you mean by patriarchal? Men leading? “As above so below.” No women at all play any roll in this life? In reality, you and I & every human was conceived by both masculine and feminine powers. Feminine did a lot of the work in pregnancy etc.

It seems quite polytheistic to consider 6 in the godhead (wives for each 3). And what makes more sense:
Father, Male HG, Son... or
Father, Mother, Son??

I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most. In this case, I am absolutely willing to say that this is something I will never change my opinion on. The Holy Ghost is male and is Joseph smith.

It was clearly explained by Brigham and Joseph.

And I do believe that of course each gods main wife is their counterpart in the godhead. Heavenly mother is eve, Mary Magdalene is the savioress, and I guess that made Emma the one who was meant to fulfill the role of consort to the Holy Ghost. I’m not sure she did. Maybe things will have to be worked out later.

I am absolutely a polytheist, and I do believe the heavenly ordering is along patriarchal lines. The law of adoption explains this

Interesting. I have two questions.

-Do you believe Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost incarnate?
-Do you agree with Adam-God theory?

Yes and yes

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:18 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:06 pm I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most.

Don't you believe in thinking, studying and praying to figure things out yourself?

When I was little, I believed whatever my parents said. Then I found out they weren’t perfect and so I switched to believing other authority. Then I discovered they also were flawed and so now I try to not depend on anyone blindly anymore. Not that I try to reinvent the wheel - I do appreciate learning from others - but I don’t trust in anyone as if they’re God.

Yes but I would never trust my own mind to make up what makes ‘sense’ in a topic as important as this. There has been hundreds, even thousands of things said about this and closely related topics by those who I believe have walked and talked with the Gods in question, I prefer to take their opinion instead of substitute my own.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:47 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:17 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:06 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:01 pm
What do you mean by patriarchal? Men leading? “As above so below.” No women at all play any roll in this life? In reality, you and I & every human was conceived by both masculine and feminine powers. Feminine did a lot of the work in pregnancy etc.

It seems quite polytheistic to consider 6 in the godhead (wives for each 3). And what makes more sense:
Father, Male HG, Son... or
Father, Mother, Son??

I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most. In this case, I am absolutely willing to say that this is something I will never change my opinion on. The Holy Ghost is male and is Joseph smith.

It was clearly explained by Brigham and Joseph.

And I do believe that of course each gods main wife is their counterpart in the godhead. Heavenly mother is eve, Mary Magdalene is the savioress, and I guess that made Emma the one who was meant to fulfill the role of consort to the Holy Ghost. I’m not sure she did. Maybe things will have to be worked out later.

I am absolutely a polytheist, and I do believe the heavenly ordering is along patriarchal lines. The law of adoption explains this

Interesting. I have two questions.

-Do you believe Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost incarnate?
-Do you agree with Adam-God theory?

Yes and yes

Alright, then we can agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:51 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:47 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:17 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:06 pm

I try to base all my opinions not on my own speculation but on what has actually been said about it by the people who matter most. In this case, I am absolutely willing to say that this is something I will never change my opinion on. The Holy Ghost is male and is Joseph smith.

It was clearly explained by Brigham and Joseph.

And I do believe that of course each gods main wife is their counterpart in the godhead. Heavenly mother is eve, Mary Magdalene is the savioress, and I guess that made Emma the one who was meant to fulfill the role of consort to the Holy Ghost. I’m not sure she did. Maybe things will have to be worked out later.

I am absolutely a polytheist, and I do believe the heavenly ordering is along patriarchal lines. The law of adoption explains this

Interesting. I have two questions.

-Do you believe Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost incarnate?
-Do you agree with Adam-God theory?

Yes and yes

Alright, then we can agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

They’re not my thoughts, I just adopted them after reading them from someone else

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:49 pm Yes but I would never trust my own mind to make up what makes ‘sense’ in a topic as important as this. There has been hundreds, even thousands of things said about this and closely related topics by those who I believe have walked and talked with the Gods in question, I prefer to take their opinion instead of substitute my own.

...They’re not my thoughts, I just adopted them after reading them from someone else

It’s great to learn truth from others, but often it’s mixed with lies. God wants us to wrestle it out - figure out and discern truth from error. Your authorities are imperfect just like you. Why trust in the flesh? Why have other gods before God? Why not get truth directly from the Source? I believe that’s what God wants for us.

But I also understand possible reasons why many want a middle-man or false god.
1) They’re tangible - easier to believe in, less faith required.
2) You can pretend they are responsible if they mislead you.
3) Peer pressure - if you don’t follow the flesh, they will punish you.

I guess it comes down to what matters most to you: truth or praise. But there are other issues as mentioned like tradition, group thought, trusting in parental-substitutes (authorities) to do the thinking.

Plato gave an analogy about this. Most people are as if in a cave where they only see shadows of images (what others tell them). But some venture out to see truth/God for themselves. It’s similar to the scripture:

• “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” - 1 Corinthians 13:12

“The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.” (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.)

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Joseph Smith Diary (kept by Willard Richards)

[A]gain reverted to Elders Hyde mistake. &c. the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the Son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit—and a person cannot have the personage of the H G in his heart[.] [H]e may receive the gift of the holy Ghost. It may descend upon him but not to tarry with him[.]* (Words of Joseph Smith, p.173)

Joseph the Seer taught the following principle that the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ was once the same as the Son or Holy Ghost but having redeemed a world he had a son Jesus Christ who redeemed this earth the same as his father had a world which made them equal & the Holy Ghost would to the same when in his turn & so would all the Saints who inherited a Celestial glory so their would be Gods many & Lords many their were many mansions even 12 from the abode of Devils to the Celestial glory. ~ Wilford Woodruff, Book of Revelations.


Certainly the Holy Ghost is an office just as the Messiah is an office.

“Peter and Stephen testify that they saw the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Any person that had seen the heavens opened knows that there are three personages in the heavens who hold the keys of power, and one presides over all.” Joseph Smith History of the Church vol 5, p426

“Everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth. These personages … are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Witness or Testator.”(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 190)

“[It is] the province of the Father to preside as the Chief or President, Jesus as the Mediator, and the Holy Ghost as the Testator or Witness. The Son [has] a tabernacle and so [does] the Father, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit without tabernacle.” (“Chapter 2: God the Eternal Father,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007),36–44

“The scripture says, ‘I and my Father are one’ [John 10:30], and again that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one, and these three agree in the same thing [see 1 John 5:7–8]. So did the Savior pray to the Father, ‘I pray not for the world, but for those whom ye gave me out of the world, that we might be one,’ or to say, be of one mind in the unity of the faith [see John 17:9, 11]. But everyone being a different or separate person, so are God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost separate persons, but they all agree in one or the selfsame thing.” ~ Joseph Smith

“I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 41–42).

Holy Ghost is definitely a He.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 5:47 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:49 pm Yes but I would never trust my own mind to make up what makes ‘sense’ in a topic as important as this. There has been hundreds, even thousands of things said about this and closely related topics by those who I believe have walked and talked with the Gods in question, I prefer to take their opinion instead of substitute my own.

...They’re not my thoughts, I just adopted them after reading them from someone else

It’s great to learn truth from others, but often it’s mixed with lies. God wants us to wrestle it out - figure out and discern truth from error. Your authorities are imperfect just like you. Why trust in the flesh? Why have other gods before God? Why not get truth directly from the Source? I believe that’s what God wants for us.

But I also understand possible reasons why many want a middle-man or false god.
1) They’re tangible - easier to believe in, less faith required.
2) You can pretend they are responsible if they mislead you.
3) Peer pressure - if you don’t follow the flesh, they will punish you.

I guess it comes down to what matters most to you: truth or praise. But there are other issues as mentioned like tradition, group thought, trusting in parental-substitutes (authorities) to do the thinking.

Plato gave an analogy about this. Most people are as if in a cave where they only see shadows of images (what others tell them). But some venture out to see truth/God for themselves. It’s similar to the scripture:

• “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” - 1 Corinthians 13:12

I studied philosophy in college I am familiar with Plato

I agree and it is vital to receive personal revelation that what someone is saying is true.

On the other hand Im generally willing to say I agree with everything Joseph and Brigham taught.

All I know is what the Lord has told me as I’ve asked in prayer, and what is shown in the scriptures.

The Holy Spirit is the mind, will, power, light, intelligence, glory, and truth of God. It is shared amongst the Father, Mother, Christ, and the angels, because they are one. They can share this spirit with us as we seek for it.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 6:12 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 5:47 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:49 pm Yes but I would never trust my own mind to make up what makes ‘sense’ in a topic as important as this. There has been hundreds, even thousands of things said about this and closely related topics by those who I believe have walked and talked with the Gods in question, I prefer to take their opinion instead of substitute my own.

...They’re not my thoughts, I just adopted them after reading them from someone else

It’s great to learn truth from others, but often it’s mixed with lies. God wants us to wrestle it out - figure out and discern truth from error. Your authorities are imperfect just like you. Why trust in the flesh? Why have other gods before God? Why not get truth directly from the Source? I believe that’s what God wants for us.

But I also understand possible reasons why many want a middle-man or false god.
1) They’re tangible - easier to believe in, less faith required.
2) You can pretend they are responsible if they mislead you.
3) Peer pressure - if you don’t follow the flesh, they will punish you.

I guess it comes down to what matters most to you: truth or praise. But there are other issues as mentioned like tradition, group thought, trusting in parental-substitutes (authorities) to do the thinking.

Plato gave an analogy about this. Most people are as if in a cave where they only see shadows of images (what others tell them). But some venture out to see truth/God for themselves. It’s similar to the scripture:

• “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” - 1 Corinthians 13:12

I studied philosophy in college I am familiar with Plato

I agree and it is vital to receive personal revelation that what someone is saying is true.

On the other hand Im generally willing to say I agree with everything Joseph and Brigham taught.

Why ignore truth from Plato while deifying Joseph Smith & Brigham Young?

Thinker wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 3:32 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 6:12 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 5:47 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 3:49 pm Yes but I would never trust my own mind to make up what makes ‘sense’ in a topic as important as this. There has been hundreds, even thousands of things said about this and closely related topics by those who I believe have walked and talked with the Gods in question, I prefer to take their opinion instead of substitute my own.

...They’re not my thoughts, I just adopted them after reading them from someone else

It’s great to learn truth from others, but often it’s mixed with lies. God wants us to wrestle it out - figure out and discern truth from error. Your authorities are imperfect just like you. Why trust in the flesh? Why have other gods before God? Why not get truth directly from the Source? I believe that’s what God wants for us.

But I also understand possible reasons why many want a middle-man or false god.
1) They’re tangible - easier to believe in, less faith required.
2) You can pretend they are responsible if they mislead you.
3) Peer pressure - if you don’t follow the flesh, they will punish you.

I guess it comes down to what matters most to you: truth or praise. But there are other issues as mentioned like tradition, group thought, trusting in parental-substitutes (authorities) to do the thinking.

Plato gave an analogy about this. Most people are as if in a cave where they only see shadows of images (what others tell them). But some venture out to see truth/God for themselves. It’s similar to the scripture:

• “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” - 1 Corinthians 13:12

I studied philosophy in college I am familiar with Plato

I agree and it is vital to receive personal revelation that what someone is saying is true.

On the other hand Im generally willing to say I agree with everything Joseph and Brigham taught.

Why ignore truth from Plato while deifying Joseph Smith & Brigham Young?

Because he wasn’t a prophet in the sense that Joseph and Brigham were. I’m sure he had some kind of inspiration but he certainly never walked with god in person. Joseph and Brigham both regularly experienced visitations.

There’s a lot of great things about Plato, there’s a lot of things I disagree with Plato on.

I don’t deify Brigham young although I do think he is a much more progressed being than we are. I do think everything he taught he learned from Joseph. And I happen to believe as did/do others that Joseph Smith is the third member of the godhead as per Brigham’s theology (which he learned from Joseph).

Edit to say: the more I read from/about Brigham young the more I love him. I really think that everyone who hates him have no idea what they’re talking about.

I believe the holy ghost is an office that is held by multiple spirits. I think there is no identity given to the HG because it is not just one person but many. Just like Satan has his evil spirits set to tempt humans and lead them to destruction, the Father has His good spirit children inspiring men and women to do good and righteous works. I think it explains why people claim they have had previous lives as they were that Holy Ghost that accompanied an individual during times of their life where they needed that encouragement or direction. It also explains what many of us were doing before we came to this Earth to work out our own mortal probation. We were in the service of our fellow brothers and sisters, until we could be born ourselves.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 7:26 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 3:32 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 6:12 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 5:47 pm
It’s great to learn truth from others, but often it’s mixed with lies. God wants us to wrestle it out - figure out and discern truth from error. Your authorities are imperfect just like you. Why trust in the flesh? Why have other gods before God? Why not get truth directly from the Source? I believe that’s what God wants for us.

But I also understand possible reasons why many want a middle-man or false god.
1) They’re tangible - easier to believe in, less faith required.
2) You can pretend they are responsible if they mislead you.
3) Peer pressure - if you don’t follow the flesh, they will punish you.

I guess it comes down to what matters most to you: truth or praise. But there are other issues as mentioned like tradition, group thought, trusting in parental-substitutes (authorities) to do the thinking.

Plato gave an analogy about this. Most people are as if in a cave where they only see shadows of images (what others tell them). But some venture out to see truth/God for themselves. It’s similar to the scripture:

• “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” - 1 Corinthians 13:12

I studied philosophy in college I am familiar with Plato

I agree and it is vital to receive personal revelation that what someone is saying is true.

On the other hand Im generally willing to say I agree with everything Joseph and Brigham taught.

Why ignore truth from Plato while deifying Joseph Smith & Brigham Young?

Because he wasn’t a prophet in the sense that Joseph and Brigham were. I’m sure he had some kind of inspiration but he certainly never walked with god in person. Joseph and Brigham both regularly experienced visitations.

There’s a lot of great things about Plato, there’s a lot of things I disagree with Plato on.

I don’t deify Brigham young although I do think he is a much more progressed being than we are. I do think everything he taught he learned from Joseph. And I happen to believe as did/do others that Joseph Smith is the third member of the godhead as per Brigham’s theology (which he learned from Joseph).

Edit to say: the more I read from/about Brigham young the more I love him. I really think that everyone who hates him have no idea what they’re talking about.

In the big picture, Plato - & Socrates who Plato wrote for, (as others wrote for Christ) - had more influence because they came early on in history. Greek philosophy and mythology are throughout the Bible, on which lds doctrine is significantly based. They had visions of better ways and led people to it... prophetic work! Socrates even was killed for it & said,

• "It is not difficult to escape death; it is more difficult to escape wickedness, for wickedness runs faster than death...
  
  There is but one evil, ignorance.”

Joseph Smith (JS) and Brigham Young were also prophetic by having visions and leading people to them. They, as well as Socrates & Plato had profound influence, despite them all being fallible human becomings. JS taught that truth is truth wherever it’s found. It's important to actively search for truth - not just in one little corner - but throughout the world! This is now easier with the www, but also harder because “intelligence” means to “choose between” - no easy task in this “too-much- Information Age.”

The Spirit is about revealing truth, and is like air - it is spread throughout. If I shut myself off to truth - and only consider Mormon-approved truth, I shut myself off to 99% of truth! This is why I see the church’s real name in practice as “the church of church leaders.” Its priority is NOT God, let alone Christ. And sadly, that is why so many members suffer from depression, anxiety and other dysfunction that would be healed by prioritizing the God of Truth.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 9th, 2020, 8:16 am

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 7:26 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 3:32 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 6:12 pm

I studied philosophy in college I am familiar with Plato

I agree and it is vital to receive personal revelation that what someone is saying is true.

On the other hand Im generally willing to say I agree with everything Joseph and Brigham taught.

Why ignore truth from Plato while deifying Joseph Smith & Brigham Young?

Because he wasn’t a prophet in the sense that Joseph and Brigham were. I’m sure he had some kind of inspiration but he certainly never walked with god in person. Joseph and Brigham both regularly experienced visitations.

There’s a lot of great things about Plato, there’s a lot of things I disagree with Plato on.

I don’t deify Brigham young although I do think he is a much more progressed being than we are. I do think everything he taught he learned from Joseph. And I happen to believe as did/do others that Joseph Smith is the third member of the godhead as per Brigham’s theology (which he learned from Joseph).

Edit to say: the more I read from/about Brigham young the more I love him. I really think that everyone who hates him have no idea what they’re talking about.

In the big picture, Plato - & Socrates who Plato wrote for, (as others wrote for Christ) - had more influence because they came early on in history. Greek philosophy and mythology are throughout the Bible, on which lds doctrine is significantly based. They had visions of better ways and led people to it... prophetic work! Socrates even was killed for it & said,

• "It is not difficult to escape death; it is more difficult to escape wickedness, for wickedness runs faster than death...
  
  There is but one evil, ignorance.”

Joseph Smith (JS) and Brigham Young were also prophetic by having visions and leading people to them. They, as well as Socrates & Plato had profound influence, despite them all being fallible human becomings. JS taught that truth is truth wherever it’s found. It's important to actively search for truth - not just in one little corner - but throughout the world! This is now easier with the www, but also harder because “intelligence” means to “choose between” - no easy task in this “too-much- Information Age.”

The Spirit is about revealing truth, and is like air - it is spread throughout. If I shut myself off to truth - and only consider Mormon-approved truth, I shut myself off to 99% of truth! This is why I see the church’s real name in practice as “the church of church leaders.” Its priority is NOT God, let alone Christ. And sadly, that is why so many members suffer from depression, anxiety and other dysfunction that would be healed by prioritizing the God of Truth.

I assure you that I accept many truths that aren’t Mormon truths. Evolution for example.

But the Greek Christianity is full of errors and I disagree that Mormonism is based on it it all. Pure Mormonism and Joseph’s theology are something almost no other Christian church can accept because they are so radical.

Traditional Christian concepts are largely overturned in Joseph’s theology and teachings. You’re right, those traditional Christian concepts are based on Plato and Socrates.

The traditional doctrine of the trinity for example comes as a result of neonplatoism as well as monotheism which are both contradicted in Joseph’s teachings of plurality of gods.

If you compare Joseph to Plato, you have to conclude that one has an incorrect view of metaphysics. Their theologies are opposites in many many ways.

Spoiler

Thinker wrote: ↑February 9th, 2020, 8:16 am

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 7:26 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑February 8th, 2020, 3:32 pm

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 6:12 pm

I studied philosophy in college I am familiar with Plato

I agree and it is vital to receive personal revelation that what someone is saying is true.

On the other hand Im generally willing to say I agree with everything Joseph and Brigham taught.

Why ignore truth from Plato while deifying Joseph Smith & Brigham Young?

Because he wasn’t a prophet in the sense that Joseph and Brigham were. I’m sure he had some kind of inspiration but he certainly never walked with god in person. Joseph and Brigham both regularly experienced visitations.

There’s a lot of great things about Plato, there’s a lot of things I disagree with Plato on.

I don’t deify Brigham young although I do think he is a much more progressed being than we are. I do think everything he taught he learned from Joseph. And I happen to believe as did/do others that Joseph Smith is the third member of the godhead as per Brigham’s theology (which he learned from Joseph).

Edit to say: the more I read from/about Brigham young the more I love him. I really think that everyone who hates him have no idea what they’re talking about.

In the big picture, Plato - & Socrates who Plato wrote for, (as others wrote for Christ) - had more influence because they came early on in history. Greek philosophy and mythology are throughout the Bible, on which lds doctrine is significantly based. They had visions of better ways and led people to it... prophetic work! Socrates even was killed for it & said,

• "It is not difficult to escape death; it is more difficult to escape wickedness, for wickedness runs faster than death...
  
  There is but one evil, ignorance.”

Joseph Smith (JS) and Brigham Young were also prophetic by having visions and leading people to them. They, as well as Socrates & Plato had profound influence, despite them all being fallible human becomings. JS taught that truth is truth wherever it’s found. It's important to actively search for truth - not just in one little corner - but throughout the world! This is now easier with the www, but also harder because “intelligence” means to “choose between” - no easy task in this “too-much- Information Age.”

The Spirit is about revealing truth, and is like air - it is spread throughout. If I shut myself off to truth - and only consider Mormon-approved truth, I shut myself off to 99% of truth! This is why I see the church’s real name in practice as “the church of church leaders.” Its priority is NOT God, let alone Christ. And sadly, that is why so many members suffer from depression, anxiety and other dysfunction that would be healed by prioritizing the God of Truth.

Personally I think the reason for so much depression, anxiety and other dysfunctions, suicide, drugs, LGBTQ, etc amongst the LDS, is because we have rejected the truths that JS and BY (among others) revealed to us. We have rejected the fulness of the Gospel, hence the curses placed upon us.

NewEliza wrote: ↑February 9th, 2020, 7:52 pmI assure you that I accept many truths that aren’t Mormon truths. Evolution for example.

But the Greek Christianity is full of errors and I disagree that Mormonism is based on it it all...

Thanks! To not derail this thread, I responded to you here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52528&p=999730#p999730

simpleton wrote: ↑February 9th, 2020, 8:03 pm Personally I think the reason for so much depression, anxiety and other dysfunctions, suicide, drugs, LGBTQ, etc amongst the LDS, is because we have rejected the truths that JS and BY (among others) revealed to us. We have rejected the fulness of the Gospel, hence the curses placed upon us.

I likely agree - at least somewhat. But would you expand on what we’re missing which they taught?

My guess would be mainly the passionate quest for truth.

Thinker wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:51 am Good question! This is integral to asking, “What is the nature of God?”

My belief in God has evolved, and hopefully will continue to because I don’t expect to be all-knowing to completely comprehend God. Currently, I see God as Heavenly Father and Mother. Anciently, the Dove (Holy Ghost) was Feminine and called Astarte or Sophia. Father, Mother, Child/Son makes more sense than Father, Male HG, Son, in my opinion.


...

Interesting sun/moon symbolism in that picture. I saw an interesting video that mentioned something about when looking at God with one eye, God appears as the sun, with the other eye, as the moon, and with both eyes as a personage of light... What God Looks Like. Watch that video for much more detail.

I've posted some theories about the Holy Ghost in the past:

Who is the third member of the godhead

The Identity of the Holy Ghost

The Creator wrote: ↑February 10th, 2020, 6:58 pm Interesting sun/moon symbolism in that picture. I saw an interesting video that mentioned something about when looking at God with one eye, God appears as the sun, with the other eye, as the moon, and with both eyes as a personage of light... What God Looks Like. Watch that video for much more detail.

I've posted some theories about the Holy Ghost in the past:

Who is the third member of the godhead

The Identity of the Holy Ghost

Thank you.
Beautiful idea of sun, moon and personage of light. I really like how that guy (Curtis?) explained that we see through understanding, and according to reception. “We see things not as they are but as we are (I forgot who said that).” Reminds me of a child who said, “I’m going to draw God!” His teacher said, “You can’t - nobody knows what God looks like.” As the child got busy drawing, he said, “They will in a minute.”

It’s inspiring and I can relate to how God can look like everything - or many things can reflect God like a mirror. I’ve often experienced that in nature, in the ocean. Occasionally I’ve had spiritual experiences with people - or spirits who appear to me as people. Gravity is an awesome example of a process of God - like attraction. Somewhere I read how God can paradoxically be unchanging while changing by inspiring love and creation.

In the link you shared, you wrote,
”The scriptures tell us the Holy Ghost is:
-the Comforter
-the peaceable things of immortal glory
-the truth of all things
-that which quickeneth all things
-that which knoweth all things
-that which has all power according to truth, justice and judgment
-the record of heaven...

I can see truth in all that.

This reminds me of a video called “Proving God by Proving Light,” by Bill Donahue. I disagree with some he believes, but there are nuggets of truth. He explained how the Bible says, “God is light” and light, like God cannot be seen, but makes seeing possible. Each of us have a pineal gland, aka “3rd eye,” which secretes melatonin that can help destroy cancer cells. Jesus said, “If your eye be single, your body will fill with light.” So God is light and heals. He also discussed Plancks Quantum Theory suggesting photons are non-physical light which act intelligently, finding best paths and purposeful behavior, like creation and are the basis for the physical world.

Another time Bill explained symbolism of Christ telling Peter to cast his net into the right side of the boat - as focus on the right hemisphere - the more faith-based side. And a book I have about symbols suggests water represents mind or subconscious. He also mentioned army numbering 186,400 (Numbers 2:9), & 186,000 m/s is the speed of light. Coincidental, or did they have some incredible intelligence they snuck in through symbolism?