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Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm
by Alexander
What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 6:00 pm
by 4Joshua8
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?
I want to participate in this, but first, can I ask you a favor? Can you put forth a definition of "pharisaical traditions" that sets the context for the discussion? People think of this in different ways and don't all agree on what is and isn't pharisaical...which is part of the problem...
If not, no worries.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 6:06 pm
by abijah`
beards being looked down on but i think that's going away.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
by abijah`
i'mnotspecial wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 6:00 pm
I want to participate in this, but first, can I ask you a favor? Can you put forth a definition of "pharisaical traditions" that sets the context for the discussion? People think of this in different ways and don't all agree on what is and isn't pharisaical...which is part of the problem...
If not, no worries.
yeah good point. when i first saw "pharisaic" i thought of rigid strictness but now i'm not as sure. rigid strictness still has it's place within the personality of god, so it must be something else.

i reckon it was their inverted perception of the commandments and their draconian enforcement of it. jesus didn't condemn them for following rites and statutes from the torah with painstaking exactness - he criticised them for looking on the exterior and not regarding the heart, which is where the commandments are rooted in.

in my opinion pharisaic worship is that which exalts the flesh and denies the spirit.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 7:04 pm
by Alaris
White shirts

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 7:06 pm
by Connie561
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?
The Pharisees hated Jesus Christ and followed him around trying to find fault with him.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 7:13 pm
by onandagus
Suits white shirts and ties
That beer ale and other mild barley drinks are prohibited by the word of wisdom
That the WOW is a commandment or even has much bearing on spiritual worthiness
Sacrament renews baptismal covenants
Stay away from mysteries
Church and or leaders cannot or will not ever lead us astray
Probably many more we just haven't had as much time between us and JS as the Pharisees and Moses

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 7:18 pm
by 4Joshua8
abijah` wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
i'mnotspecial wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 6:00 pm
I want to participate in this, but first, can I ask you a favor? Can you put forth a definition of "pharisaical traditions" that sets the context for the discussion? People think of this in different ways and don't all agree on what is and isn't pharisaical...which is part of the problem...
If not, no worries.
yeah good point. when i first saw "pharisaic" i thought of rigid strictness but now i'm not as sure. rigid strictness still has it's place within the personality of god, so it must be something else.

i reckon it was their inverted perception of the commandments and their draconian enforcement of it. jesus didn't condemn them for following rites and statutes from the torah with painstaking exactness - he criticised them for looking on the exterior and not regarding the heart, which is where the commandments are rooted in.

in my opinion pharisaic worship is that which exalts the flesh and denies the spirit.
Exactly... it's hypocrisy that is the cardinal sin of the pharisees, not exactness in obedience to Eternal law and principle, or even the law of Moses.
Problem with even that is that I don't think we understand, in general, what Jesus meant by "hypocrisy." It is my belief that by "hypocrisy," Jesus was talking specifically about its essence, which is insincerity.
Here's the 1828 dictionary definition of hypocrisy:
HYPOC'RISY, noun [Latin hypocrisis; Gr. simulation; to feign; to separate, discern or judge.]

1. Simulation; a feigning to be what one is not; or dissimulation, a concealment of one's real character or motives. More generally, hypocrisy is simulation, or the assuming of a false appearance of virtue or religion; a deceitful show of a good character, in morals or religion; a counterfeiting of religion.
Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy Luke 12:1.

2. Simulation; deceitful appearance; false pretence.
With that said, I think any time we make a commitment to God without sincerity, and then we go on acting as though we're superior to others based on our "outward appearance," when inside ourselves we really couldn't care less, we are pharisaical.

This is how the 1828 dictionary defines pharisaicalness:
PHARISA'ICALNESS, noun Devotion to external rites and ceremonies; external show of religion without the spirit of it.
Again, that smells like insincerity to me.

That said, I THINK what Tyler is talking about might incorporate insincerity but probably has more to do with a focus on traditional things that don't really matter, ignoring things that matter most, and then using those traditional things to judge the personal righteousness of others. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler.

If that's what he's going for, I'll make a list.

1. Beards and hair. I don't believe beards are an accidental genetic mutation but are part of the design of God for men. If I'm wrong, forgive me. I feel it's ridiculous for us to judge men as unrighteous because they grow their facial hair. I understand avoiding extremes, and I wholeheartedly advocate for the principles of moderation and contentment, but my beard in and of itself isn't unrighteous to God. Neither is my wife's armpit hair or leg hair.

2. What constitutes faithfulness in church activity. There are MANY people who are fully "active" in the gospel of Jesus Christ who rarely come to church, and they have valid reasons. I'll put it like I did in a talk I gave a few years ago. "I feel confident in saying that people with the gift of charity will be found doing good deeds. The exact nature of the deeds might vary. Not everyone has the same capabilities or lives in the same environment around people with the same needs. People who are filled with charity may be well-off or destitute, disabled or able-bodied, in captivity or free, and their service may be easy to see or untraditional and go unnoticed by the group. But all charity is certainly noticed by God. And to those who strongly desire to help others but for whatever reason find themselves incapable or must serve differently than desired, King Benjamin gives a comforting word. He said, 'All you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give. And now, if ye say this in your hearts ye remain guiltless.'"

While church attendance and service in the church can be a sign of charity, if we assume others (or ourselves) are "righteous" based solely on the grounds that we go to church on Sunday and hold a calling, we are kidding ourselves. Lots of people go to church and hold a calling without sincerity, which is hypocrisy, which Jesus Christ condemned. And lots of people sincerely WANT to be at church and hold a calling but can't, and they are NOT unrighteous, simply because they are at home on Sunday.

3. Sustaining church leaders without sincerity. I wonder how many of us raise our hands without even thinking about what it means to sustain a person in a calling. I don't think we know one another well enough, for the most part, for the sustaining vote to mean anything more than "I trust you Jesus, because I gotta be honest...I have no direct information to inform my support of this decision beyond my testimony that you're alive and this is your church instituted for the last days..."

4. Making covenants in the temple without sincerity, especially pertaining to chastity. The essence of chastity goes ignored. Jesus Christ was clear about the higher law pertaining to chastity, and we almost completely ignore it in our church culture, focusing exclusively on the outward expression of lust (adultery or fornication) while ignoring its foundation, or even encouraging it (immodesty). We are an immodest people, and many of us want it that way. Immodesty as I'm using it means to have a tempting manner or appearance.

5. How we dress as it pertains to business suits and such (modesty and moderation are valid concerns, however, because they are Eternal principles).

6. MOST IMPORTANT: taking upon us the name of Jesus Christ insincerely, which means we are unwilling to do the following from Mosiah 18:
"as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light; yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?"

There are a lot more that could be put here.

The pharisees were insincere. They claimed to be righteous because they said they obeyed the law, but they were completely insincere and stopped loving both the law giver and their fellow men. That's pharisaical, and it's so easy to fall into that trap.

I have to look inward often to see if I'm lacking in sincerity. Sometimes I am. Sometimes I'm not. It's a battle. It's important to stay close to the Lord, be converted and serve Him with sincere love, and feast upon His word in order to up the sincerity, I believe. "For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?" From Mosiah 5

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 7:22 pm
by largerthanlife
White shirts and business suits have been given sacred powers. if you dress like a businessman, you are worthy. Such nonsense!

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 7:50 pm
by Alexander
i'mnotspecial wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 7:18 pm
abijah` wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 6:45 pm
i'mnotspecial wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 6:00 pm
I want to participate in this, but first, can I ask you a favor? Can you put forth a definition of "pharisaical traditions" that sets the context for the discussion? People think of this in different ways and don't all agree on what is and isn't pharisaical...which is part of the problem...
If not, no worries.
yeah good point. when i first saw "pharisaic" i thought of rigid strictness but now i'm not as sure. rigid strictness still has it's place within the personality of god, so it must be something else.

i reckon it was their inverted perception of the commandments and their draconian enforcement of it. jesus didn't condemn them for following rites and statutes from the torah with painstaking exactness - he criticised them for looking on the exterior and not regarding the heart, which is where the commandments are rooted in.

in my opinion pharisaic worship is that which exalts the flesh and denies the spirit.
Exactly... it's hypocrisy that is the cardinal sin of the pharisees, not exactness in obedience to Eternal law and principle, or even the law of Moses.
Problem with even that is that I don't think we understand, in general, what Jesus meant by "hypocrisy." It is my belief that by "hypocrisy," Jesus was talking specifically about its essence, which is insincerity.
Here's the 1828 dictionary definition of hypocrisy:
HYPOC'RISY, noun [Latin hypocrisis; Gr. simulation; to feign; to separate, discern or judge.]

1. Simulation; a feigning to be what one is not; or dissimulation, a concealment of one's real character or motives. More generally, hypocrisy is simulation, or the assuming of a false appearance of virtue or religion; a deceitful show of a good character, in morals or religion; a counterfeiting of religion.
Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy Luke 12:1.

2. Simulation; deceitful appearance; false pretence.
With that said, I think any time we make a commitment to God without sincerity, and then we go on acting as though we're superior to others based on our "outward appearance," when inside ourselves we really couldn't care less, we are pharisaical.

This is how the 1828 dictionary defines pharisaicalness:
PHARISA'ICALNESS, noun Devotion to external rites and ceremonies; external show of religion without the spirit of it.
Again, that smells like insincerity to me.

That said, I THINK what Tyler is talking about might incorporate insincerity but probably has more to do with a focus on traditional things that don't really matter, ignoring things that matter most, and then using those traditional things to judge the personal righteousness of others. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler.

If that's what he's going for, I'll make a list.

1. Beards and hair. I don't believe beards are an accidental genetic mutation but are part of the design of God for men. If I'm wrong, forgive me. I feel it's ridiculous for us to judge men as unrighteous because they grow their facial hair. I understand avoiding extremes, and I wholeheartedly advocate for the principles of moderation and contentment, but my beard in and of itself isn't unrighteous to God. Neither is my wife's armpit hair or leg hair.

2. What constitutes faithfulness in church activity. There are MANY people who are fully "active" in the gospel of Jesus Christ who rarely come to church, and they have valid reasons. I'll put it like I did in a talk I gave a few years ago. "I feel confident in saying that people with the gift of charity will be found doing good deeds. The exact nature of the deeds might vary. Not everyone has the same capabilities or lives in the same environment around people with the same needs. People who are filled with charity may be well-off or destitute, disabled or able-bodied, in captivity or free, and their service may be easy to see or untraditional and go unnoticed by the group. But all charity is certainly noticed by God. And to those who strongly desire to help others but for whatever reason find themselves incapable or must serve differently than desired, King Benjamin gives a comforting word. He said, 'All you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give. And now, if ye say this in your hearts ye remain guiltless.'"

While church attendance and service in the church can be a sign of charity, if we assume others (or ourselves) are "righteous" based solely on the grounds that we go to church on Sunday and hold a calling, we are kidding ourselves. Lots of people go to church and hold a calling without sincerity, which is hypocrisy, which Jesus Christ condemned. And lots of people sincerely WANT to be at church and hold a calling but can't, and they are NOT unrighteous, simply because they are at home on Sunday.

3. Sustaining church leaders without sincerity. I wonder how many of us raise our hands without even thinking about what it means to sustain a person in a calling. I don't think we know one another well enough, for the most part, for the sustaining vote to mean anything more than "I trust you Jesus, because I gotta be honest...I have no direct information to inform my support of this decision beyond my testimony that you're alive and this is your church instituted for the last days..."

4. Making covenants in the temple without sincerity, especially pertaining to chastity. The essence of chastity goes ignored. Jesus Christ was clear about the higher law pertaining to chastity, and we almost completely ignore it in our church culture, focusing exclusively on the outward expression of lust (adultery or fornication) while ignoring its foundation, or even encouraging it (immodesty). We are an immodest people, and many of us want it that way. Immodesty as I'm using it means to have a tempting manner or appearance.

5. How we dress as it pertains to business suits and such (modesty and moderation are valid concerns, however, because they are Eternal principles).

6. MOST IMPORTANT: taking upon us the name of Jesus Christ insincerely, which means we are unwilling to do the following from Mosiah 18:
"as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light; yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?"

There are a lot more that could be put here.

The pharisees were insincere. They claimed to be righteous because they said they obeyed the law, but they were completely insincere and stopped loving both the law giver and their fellow men. That's pharisaical, and it's so easy to fall into that trap.

I have to look inward often to see if I'm lacking in sincerity. Sometimes I am. Sometimes I'm not. It's a battle. It's important to stay close to the Lord, be converted and serve Him with sincere love, and feast upon His word in order to up the sincerity, I believe. "For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?" From Mosiah 5
Yes I meant those actions which are hypocritical.

But I also meant actions that aren’t necessarily important which way they are done. An example of this would be praying with your arms stretched out toward heaven vs folding your arms. God looks on the heart, and the Pharisees were looking at the outward appearance.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 8:09 pm
by 4Joshua8
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 7:50 pm
Yes I meant those actions which are hypocritical.

But I also meant actions that aren’t necessarily important which way it is done. An example of this would be praying with your arms stretched out toward heaven vs folding your arms. God looks on the heart, and the Pharisees were looking at the outward appearance.
Oh, then I have a lot more.

ALWAYS pray out loud (even though God said pray both vocally and in secret).
ALWAYS kneel when praying. What matters most isn't that we kneel, but that we are sincere and are praying with real intent.
Blessing cake and ice cream to nourish and strengthen my body. LOL. LOLOLOLOL. LLLLLOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!
Only one person speaks when praying. WHY? I tried teaming up in a prayer with my wife, and it's AWESOME! It gave new meaning to, "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them" for us. It's just a matter of helping one another know when they have a good place to enter the prayer.
Wearing a tie. There's nothing inherently sacred about a tie, so long as a person is still modest.
Folding arms when praying. I think this gets started as a way to keep young children from touching one another and loud things during prayers in primary, and it gets stuck in our habits.
Shaking hands when greeting. Giving a friendly nod is equally as legitimate, and much less likely to spread flu during flu season. I don't understand why all the touching all the time at church and in meetings.
Saying "in the name of Jesus Christ" at the end of a prayer or blessing instead of at the beginning. I prefer the beginning, because it gives focus to what I'm about to do and helps me remember in whose name I am acting.
Breaking the bread without food-prep gloves on. Not sure why we do that. I'm pretty tired of smelling and tasting lotion or hand sanitizer on the sacrament bread. Surely there's room in the budget for 4 food-prep gloves per week.
Wrote prayers for blessings that don't require specific verbiage.
etc.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 8:22 pm
by abijah`
i'mnotspecial wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 8:09 pm WHY? I tried teaming up in a prayer with my wife, and it's AWESOME! It gave new meaning to, "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them" for us. It's just a matter of helping one another know when they have a good place to enter the prayer.
very interesting.

i've had similar situations, not where we were actively speaking in the same prayer, but had a drawn-out discussion prior to it about what the 'voice' would say, so we both knew it was our prayer, that represented our collective thoughts & feelings that we studied out in our mind and heart together. the results were different.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 10:23 pm
by jmack
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?
What's the purpose in listing things you think are 'pharisiacal teachings'? Who is in a position to determine what is pharisaical and what isn't? Could it be that some of these are well meaning traditions, not created out of pride or arrogance? Are some of these things already on their way out, but your are trying to keep them alive as something to criticize and cast judgement?

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 10:28 pm
by jmack
Connie561 wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 7:06 pm
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?
The Pharisees hated Jesus Christ and followed him around trying to find fault with him.
And not to be harsh, but it seems to me that making a list of pharisaical traditions is simply a way to find fault with the leaders and other members of the church. It seems elitist. So, who is really acting like a Pharisee here?

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 10:56 pm
by Dlight
The Lord doesn't stress about the things we do. When we look beyond the mark, we risk becoming pharasiticl.

For example he does not seem to care what we use for sacrament... The specifics of how we live or worship can and do change for each person's circumstance. This is why God is unknowable, his ways are infinite because they are considering of every variable and unique circumstance... The spirit directs tailored to each person according to their ability, understanding, culture, weaknesses, strengths, and language in the ideal gospel.

Any tradition or rule that we cling to or build our faith around is at risk of turning us into pharisees if that rule or tradition becomes more important than following God as He directs us today. God doesn't change, there are simply times and seasons, and we let Him tell us which season we are in and act accordingly. If he tells us to stop doing something, that doesn't mean it's now bad it simply means it's no longer what he wants right now for some good reason.

We aren't saved by strict obedience anyway because even the strictest obedience to carnal commandments is still far away from God's perfection in all things, so we are saved by grace.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So instead we should seek charity which is the governing law of all, and let that rule us. If we have charity and understand all the aspects of charity, we shouldn't really be inclined to sin or be pharasitical much anyway, and that will drive us in the spirit of God to act wisely and to be governed by God on how we must act in each situation, governed by God rather than carnal commandments or concrete laws.

This is in line with Joseph Smiths teaching "I teach men correct principles and they govern themselves"

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 3rd, 2020, 11:34 pm
by Luke
i'mnotspecial wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 8:09 pm
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 7:50 pm
Yes I meant those actions which are hypocritical.

But I also meant actions that aren’t necessarily important which way it is done. An example of this would be praying with your arms stretched out toward heaven vs folding your arms. God looks on the heart, and the Pharisees were looking at the outward appearance.
Blessing cake and ice cream to nourish and strengthen my body. LOL. LOLOLOLOL. LLLLLOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!
This one is so true it's actually funny

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 8:11 am
by lemuel
Apostles entering and leaving a room in order of seniority.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 8:29 am
by Alexander
jmack wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 10:23 pm
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?
What's the purpose in listing things you think are 'pharisiacal teachings'? Who is in a position to determine what is pharisaical and what isn't? Could it be that some of these are well meaning traditions, not created out of pride or arrogance? Are some of these things already on their way out, but your are trying to keep them alive as something to criticize and cast judgement?
My whole purpose for this was to help us recognize false traditions, so that we could turn away from them and come to Jesus for his grace and charity. Whether they were originally well meaning or not doesn’t matter. This wasn’t supposed to cast judgement. It was to point out the judgements we already give to those who don’t follow the letter of the law. There are many actions today in our church which are followed to show our righteousness, things that don’t matter. It sometimes (not all the time, but surely can) create pride. Those who don’t don’t stand for the prophet (for example) when he enters the room are looked down upon as unrighteous. Does it really matter what clothes I wear when I pray? Can the poor and needy who have no clothes come to worship with us? Does it matter what color my socks are as a missionary?

My intent was never to make anyone feel bad, or place the blame on anyone. These are natural false traditions that we let take over our lives. God doesn’t look on the outward, but in your heart. We aren’t saved by the law, but by the grace of God. Let us repent and turn away from the things of the world so that God my save us.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 8:34 am
by cab
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?

The best documentation of the OP's question I've found is here:

Free PDF book. Teaching for Doctrine the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6t-rQ ... sp=sharing

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 2:06 pm
by Art Vandelay
TylerDurden wrote: February 4th, 2020, 8:29 am Does it really matter what clothes I wear when I pray?
Sometimes!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 8?lang=eng

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 2:15 pm
by tdj
I got one: How about not working on the Lords day and turning off your phone so you won't be disturbed when spending the day with your family? Sounds good right? EXCEPT, when someone in the church has a crisis or semi emergency pop up on a sunday and they REALLY need the brothers and sisters to rally together and come to their aid, but they can't because no one can be reached because they won't answer their phones!!
We've had this happen when our water went out, and a few times when our car quit, all on a Sunday and we were stuck with no help. It was so demoralizing

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 2:17 pm
by tdj
lemuel wrote: February 4th, 2020, 8:11 am Apostles entering and leaving a room in order of seniority.
That's not so much a big deal, but the little children should be the ones sitting in the front, being made much of. Them and the poor vagabonds down the street. That's scripture after all.

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 7:00 pm
by darknesstolight
jmack wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 10:28 pm
Connie561 wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 7:06 pm
TylerDurden wrote: February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?
The Pharisees hated Jesus Christ and followed him around trying to find fault with him.
And not to be harsh, but it seems to me that making a list of pharisaical traditions is simply a way to find fault with the leaders and other members of the church. It seems elitist. So, who is really acting like a Pharisee here?
As a member of this religion I am entitled to list both positive and negative aspects about my religion. I am entitled to do an inventory of my church in order to understand where we stand as a people, to identify errors, and to discuss any relevant aspect of my church and religion.

In cults you are only allowed to talk positively about it. We are not a cult.

There is nothing immoral, sinful, wrong, or unethical about the OP. The OP does not constitute finding fault with members and leaders. It is not elitist. Being legit, humble, and sincere about one's religion can't be rationally redefined as elitist.

...

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 4th, 2020, 9:54 pm
by Rick Grimes
1. The prophet is infallible and will never and cannot lead the church astray. (Part of the D&C)

2. WoW as it is interpreted today.

3. Tithing, the false way it is taught. It should be tithing on surplus, after expenses are factored.

4. White shirts. Stupid, stupid, stupid tradition.

5. People dragging their kids up on Fast and testimony meeting and having them repeat what they say to them over the microphone. (We look like a cult)

6. People giving talks or lessons and exclusively quote a GA's talk about the same subject they are talking or teaching about. (How about we study the doctrine and have the spirit guide us, instead of quoting somebody else for the entire talk?)

7. Mormons who only read their BOM but neglect the other scriptures.

8. Believing that all mormons are good people, and that you can trust them.

I could probably go on......

Re: Pharisaical traditions

Posted: February 5th, 2020, 7:44 am
by Mindfields
- Deference to leaders
- Bishop's Handbook (Talmud?)
- Believing that going to church and to the temple, paying tithing, ministering, going on missions, following the word of wisdom are living the gospel while ignoring those less fortunate
- Spending much of your time performing church functions instead of being with your family
- Highest leader on the stand (Chief seats) first to take the sacrament and all must use right hand
- Church designated fasting day
- Believing a performance based religion can save you
- Leadership is above criticism
- Virtue signalling is rampant

“When the culture of any organization mandates that it is more important to protect the reputation of a system and those in power than it is to protect the basic human dignity of the individuals who serve that system or who are served by that system, you can be certain that the shame is systemic, the money is driving ethics, and the accountability is all but dead.” - ‘Braving the Wilderness’ by Brene Brown