LDS Freedom Forum

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 4th, 2020, 8:29 am

jmack wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2020, 10:23 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?

What's the purpose in listing things you think are 'pharisiacal teachings'? Who is in a position to determine what is pharisaical and what isn't? Could it be that some of these are well meaning traditions, not created out of pride or arrogance? Are some of these things already on their way out, but your are trying to keep them alive as something to criticize and cast judgement?

My whole purpose for this was to help us recognize false traditions, so that we could turn away from them and come to Jesus for his grace and charity. Whether they were originally well meaning or not doesn’t matter. This wasn’t supposed to cast judgement. It was to point out the judgements we already give to those who don’t follow the letter of the law. There are many actions today in our church which are followed to show our righteousness, things that don’t matter. It sometimes (not all the time, but surely can) create pride. Those who don’t don’t stand for the prophet (for example) when he enters the room are looked down upon as unrighteous. Does it really matter what clothes I wear when I pray? Can the poor and needy who have no clothes come to worship with us? Does it matter what color my socks are as a missionary?

My intent was never to make anyone feel bad, or place the blame on anyone. These are natural false traditions that we let take over our lives. God doesn’t look on the outward, but in your heart. We aren’t saved by the law, but by the grace of God. Let us repent and turn away from the things of the world so that God my save us.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So a false tradition I've heard is people who think it's only revelation from god if it starts with 'thus saith the lord'. Another is believing only men hold Priesthood power. Another is believing cain is big foot. Or that blacks are descended from cain. Another false tradition is that polygamy is required for exaltation. Or how about thinking the bro of jareds name is mahonri moriancumr, also, the belief that jesus showed up to the Nephites lamanites right after the 3 days of darkness. They are trying to correct some, but it's slow going. They have women give opening and closing prayers now, they made a statement that coke isn't against the w of wisdom. They no longer stress using the right hand for sacrament and in my ward they always have gluten free crackers on every tray.

jmack wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:42 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 4th, 2020, 8:29 am

jmack wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2020, 10:23 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?

What's the purpose in listing things you think are 'pharisiacal teachings'? Who is in a position to determine what is pharisaical and what isn't? Could it be that some of these are well meaning traditions, not created out of pride or arrogance? Are some of these things already on their way out, but your are trying to keep them alive as something to criticize and cast judgement?

My whole purpose for this was to help us recognize false traditions, so that we could turn away from them and come to Jesus for his grace and charity. Whether they were originally well meaning or not doesn’t matter. This wasn’t supposed to cast judgement. It was to point out the judgements we already give to those who don’t follow the letter of the law. There are many actions today in our church which are followed to show our righteousness, things that don’t matter. It sometimes (not all the time, but surely can) create pride. Those who don’t don’t stand for the prophet (for example) when he enters the room are looked down upon as unrighteous. Does it really matter what clothes I wear when I pray? Can the poor and needy who have no clothes come to worship with us? Does it matter what color my socks are as a missionary?

My intent was never to make anyone feel bad, or place the blame on anyone. These are natural false traditions that we let take over our lives. God doesn’t look on the outward, but in your heart. We aren’t saved by the law, but by the grace of God. Let us repent and turn away from the things of the world so that God my save us.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So a false tradition I've heard is people who think it's only revelation from god if it starts with 'thus saith the lord'. Another is believing only men hold Priesthood power. Another is believing cain is big foot. Or that blacks are descended from cain. Another false tradition is that polygamy is required for exaltation. Or how about thinking the bro of jareds name is mahonri moriancumr, also, the belief that jesus showed up to the Nephites lamanites right after the 3 days of darkness. They are trying to correct some, but it's slow going. They have women give opening and closing prayers now, they made a statement that coke isn't against the w of wisdom. They no longer stress using the right hand for sacrament and in my ward they always have gluten free crackers on every tray.

This thread was specifically for false traditions that allow us to become like the Pharisees, not necessarily all false traditions in general. But thanks for your input. Perhaps I didn’t clarify it clearly, so my mad. You have some good points.

jmack wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:42 am Or that blacks are descended from cain.

Books of Moses and Abraham are wrong?

jmack wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:42 am Or how about thinking the bro of jareds name is mahonri moriancumr

Joseph Smith said it was didn't he?

Luke wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:55 am

jmack wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:42 am Or that blacks are descended from cain.

Books of Moses and Abraham are wrong?

jmack wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:42 am Or how about thinking the bro of jareds name is mahonri moriancumr

Joseph Smith said it was didn't he?

The Book of Moses and Abraham don’t specifically say the curse of Cain was black skin. It’s really just speculation.

But this is going away from the original discussion

jmack wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 8:42 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 4th, 2020, 8:29 am

jmack wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2020, 10:23 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑February 3rd, 2020, 5:48 pm What are some pharisaical type traditions we hold in our church today that we as members and leaders can avoid and do away with, so that we are found less prideful and more lowly in heart. What pharisaical traditions should we repent of?

Some Examples:
-using only the right hand to take the sacrament
-standing for those who enter the room who are “higher in authority”
-Etc

What are some others?

What's the purpose in listing things you think are 'pharisiacal teachings'? Who is in a position to determine what is pharisaical and what isn't? Could it be that some of these are well meaning traditions, not created out of pride or arrogance? Are some of these things already on their way out, but your are trying to keep them alive as something to criticize and cast judgement?

My whole purpose for this was to help us recognize false traditions, so that we could turn away from them and come to Jesus for his grace and charity. Whether they were originally well meaning or not doesn’t matter. This wasn’t supposed to cast judgement. It was to point out the judgements we already give to those who don’t follow the letter of the law. There are many actions today in our church which are followed to show our righteousness, things that don’t matter. It sometimes (not all the time, but surely can) create pride. Those who don’t don’t stand for the prophet (for example) when he enters the room are looked down upon as unrighteous. Does it really matter what clothes I wear when I pray? Can the poor and needy who have no clothes come to worship with us? Does it matter what color my socks are as a missionary?

My intent was never to make anyone feel bad, or place the blame on anyone. These are natural false traditions that we let take over our lives. God doesn’t look on the outward, but in your heart. We aren’t saved by the law, but by the grace of God. Let us repent and turn away from the things of the world so that God my save us.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So a false tradition I've heard is people who think it's only revelation from god if it starts with 'thus saith the lord'. Another is believing only men hold Priesthood power. Another is believing cain is big foot. Or that blacks are descended from cain. Another false tradition is that polygamy is required for exaltation. Or how about thinking the bro of jareds name is mahonri moriancumr, also, the belief that jesus showed up to the Nephites lamanites right after the 3 days of darkness. They are trying to correct some, but it's slow going. They have women give opening and closing prayers now, they made a statement that coke isn't against the w of wisdom. They no longer stress using the right hand for sacrament and in my ward they always have gluten free crackers on every tray.

A number of these are not "false traditions" but doctrinal truths.

Women do not wield preisthood power anymore than a man can wield motherhood power.

Although it is not explicitly stated that a man must practise plural marriage to obtain exaltation, the odds are that whether required or not, plural marriage will be practised by all who enter into exaltation. (Balance of probability with regards to many more numerous righteous sisters who will enter this kingdom versus their non member or less than worthy husbands.)

Blacks are indeed descended from Cain. The scriptures give every indication that this is true, as well as modern day revelation from our prophets in this dispensation have clarified this for us. Any new "woke" revisionist versions are just trying to please Babylon. There is more evidence that blacks descended from Cain than their is of our Lord being married or having recieved His endowment. Yet, we all rightly have concluded that He must have recieved these ordinances since they are Earthly ordinances and He would have wanted to "fulfill all righteousness". This issue of blacks and the priesthood is proving to be a real stumbling block for many of our more woke members.