LDS Freedom Forum

zionssuburb wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:22 am

Scooter wrote: ↑January 30th, 2020, 5:05 pm

Luke wrote: ↑January 30th, 2020, 4:24 pm Don't start with 'don't speculate or you will apostatize'...

Anyone have any thoughts on what will happen?

Things I've heard online, ranked in no specific order.
-Broadcast from conference center in Rexburg and the Sacred Grove
-Sealed portion of plates
-What was told to Joseph Smith during the 1st vision that he has never revealed
-Changes in priesthood structure.
-Temple in MO
-Pick any other topic of speculation....
-Im hoping that Star Wars is accepted as cannon.

Expound on Temple in MO, what does that mean, there are already 2

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:40 am

Zathura wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:08 am I predict that many people will be disappointed, and then will call themselves to repentance for being disappointed, at which point they will convince themselves that something from conference that was actually rather mundane is somehow miraculous and prophetic.

False equivalence fallacy: Just because something is mundane, doesn't mean it isn't necessarily prophetic. Of course, it doesn't mean that it is either.

Zathura wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:59 am

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:40 am

Zathura wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:08 am I predict that many people will be disappointed, and then will call themselves to repentance for being disappointed, at which point they will convince themselves that something from conference that was actually rather mundane is somehow miraculous and prophetic.

False equivalence fallacy: Just because something is mundane, doesn't mean it isn't necessarily prophetic. Of course, it doesn't mean that it is either.

Sorry, any actual prophesy to me will never be mundane. Any prophesy is miraculous. The content isn’t what is miraculous , it’s the fact that actual prophesy occurs that’s miraculous.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:04 am Reconcilliation with the RLDS

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:19 am

JK4Woods wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:04 am Reconcilliation with the RLDS

... I'd be jumping for joy if that happened, as I am one who recognizes that such a reconciliation is something that needs to happen if Zion is to be established.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:50 am

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:19 am

JK4Woods wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:04 am Reconcilliation with the RLDS

... I'd be jumping for joy if that happened, as I am one who recognizes that such a reconciliation is something that needs to happen if Zion is to be established.

I think this could only happen with certain RLDS elements. The Restoration Branch movement is closest to us in terms of beliefs and practice. The main body, the Community of Christ, is too liberal and too embarrassed by it's restorationalist roots to consider any kind of reconcilliation.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 10:18 am

Zathura wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:59 am

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:40 am

Zathura wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:08 am I predict that many people will be disappointed, and then will call themselves to repentance for being disappointed, at which point they will convince themselves that something from conference that was actually rather mundane is somehow miraculous and prophetic.

False equivalence fallacy: Just because something is mundane, doesn't mean it isn't necessarily prophetic. Of course, it doesn't mean that it is either.

Sorry, any actual prophesy to me will never be mundane. Any prophesy is miraculous. The content isn’t what is miraculous , it’s the fact that actual prophesy occurs that’s miraculous.

#Whoosh.

My point is that prophecy isn't always obviously prophecy. The book of Psalms was just a bunch of religious poetry expressing the worship of God, and guess what? It turned out to be extremely prophetic, despite the fact that it was rather mundane in the time it was written.

"Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise. And the Lord God doth work by means to bring about his great and eternal purposes; and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls." (Alma 37:6-7)

Many prophecies are given by small and simple statements. Therefore, they will not always stand out as being miraculous, save it be to those whom the Spirit testifies of the sureness of those prophecies. To those, it will be miraculous, though the statement may indeed be mundane.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

Scooter wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:47 am

zionssuburb wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:22 am

Scooter wrote: ↑January 30th, 2020, 5:05 pm

Luke wrote: ↑January 30th, 2020, 4:24 pm Don't start with 'don't speculate or you will apostatize'...

Anyone have any thoughts on what will happen?

Things I've heard online, ranked in no specific order.
-Broadcast from conference center in Rexburg and the Sacred Grove
-Sealed portion of plates
-What was told to Joseph Smith during the 1st vision that he has never revealed
-Changes in priesthood structure.
-Temple in MO
-Pick any other topic of speculation....
-Im hoping that Star Wars is accepted as cannon.

Expound on Temple in MO, what does that mean, there are already 2

A temple in Far West.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

Luke wrote: ↑January 30th, 2020, 4:24 pm Don't start with 'don't speculate or you will apostatize'...

Anyone have any thoughts on what will happen?

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:42 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

I like your comment. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. The two biggest issues are corollary. One is the mantra of "don't judge", which leads to the other one of the LGBTQ+ question.

So many "doctrines" have become so muddied over the last 10-15 years. So no one knows what the Priesthood is anymore-it's been watered down to mean anything. An endowed woman saying a prayer-that's Priesthood Power! Umm okay well that's a new teaching-certainly not backed up by any Scripture, but it sounds nice and pleasing to modern ears so it's adopted.

Did you know that back in the mid 70s they would excommunicate-yes excommunicate members for simply ADVOCATING for polygamy. Now members can advocate for polygamy, divorce, homosexuality, polyamorous relationships they can ADVOCATE for anything . . .as long as they don't "practice" it.

The doctrine has become too squishy, too politically correct, too many corrections in order to avoid pushback. We change the Temple rites so they don't make ANY sense anymore. We "leave out" or claim Eve's curse is lifted-except if you lift Eve's curse, you remove Christ. Christ comes about specifically due to Eve's curse. But then we make all sorts of excuses to rationalize what is plainly obvious-parts were removed b/c of PC.

The Temple used to be perfectly clear on the connection between Eve, her curse, and Christ. Yet it is all removed. Removing "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; and he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise (crush-in old temple rites) his heel."-which that section is intimately connected to Eve's curse, just completely destroys the entire thing. Without that in the Temple the rites become meaningless. The Temple is literally and symbolically meaningless now. Christ has been removed from it. So we build grand buildings without the central figure of the entire thing.

Without Eve's Curse you don't have the section of scripture above, without the section above you don't have Christ, without Christ you have nothing-the Temple is totally meaningless now.

Yes the Church needs a Reformation, it needs it badly. A Reformation to whip everyone in line and shape people up . .. but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon.

Durzan wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 6:26 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:42 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm
But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

I like your comment. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. The two biggest issues are corollary. One is the mantra of "don't judge", which leads to the other one of the LGBTQ+ question.

So many "doctrines" have become so muddied over the last 10-15 years. So no one knows what the Priesthood is anymore-it's been watered down to mean anything. An endowed woman saying a prayer-that's Priesthood Power! Umm okay well that's a new teaching-certainly not backed up by any Scripture, but it sounds nice and pleasing to modern ears so it's adopted.

Did you know that back in the mid 70s they would excommunicate-yes excommunicate members for simply ADVOCATING for polygamy. Now members can advocate for polygamy, divorce, homosexuality, polyamorous relationships they can ADVOCATE for anything . . .as long as they don't "practice" it.

The doctrine has become too squishy, too politically correct, too many corrections in order to avoid pushback. We change the Temple rites so they don't make ANY sense anymore. We "leave out" or claim Eve's curse is lifted-except if you lift Eve's curse, you remove Christ. Christ comes about specifically due to Eve's curse. But then we make all sorts of excuses to rationalize what is plainly obvious-parts were removed b/c of PC.

The Temple used to be perfectly clear on the connection between Eve, her curse, and Christ. Yet it is all removed. Removing "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; and he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise (crush-in old temple rites) his heel."-which that section is intimately connected to Eve's curse, just completely destroys the entire thing. Without that in the Temple the rites become meaningless. The Temple is literally and symbolically meaningless now. Christ has been removed from it. So we build grand buildings without the central figure of the entire thing.

Without Eve's Curse you don't have the section of scripture above, without the section above you don't have Christ, without Christ you have nothing-the Temple is totally meaningless now.

Yes the Church needs a Reformation, it needs it badly. A Reformation to whip everyone in line and shape people up . .. but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon.

If the church is in need of a reformation, then who shall be our Martin Luther?

Zathura wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 9:08 am I predict that many people will be disappointed, and then will call themselves to repentance for being disappointed, at which point they will convince themselves that something from conference that was actually rather mundane is somehow miraculous and prophetic.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 31st, 2020, 8:54 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑January 31st, 2020, 3:14 pm Only the announcement that the lost 116 pages have been found and are being published, and will be included into the Book of Mormon will surprise me.

I expect more church wide goals for the benefit of the "business of the corporation".

Something I would never forget, would be to personally receive a letter from President Nelson urging me to sell all that I have and head to Jackson County.

Even a huge giant announcement like China opening it's borders to missionary work doesn't lay in the realm of "unforgettable".

The 116 pages are not really needed.

I believe the experience we receive will be deeply personal and not dependent upon an action the church takes. Even if it’s just those who have been truly laboring with faith and keeping the commands and covenants receive a deeply personal validation from the spirit it would be unforgettable to them as their faith transforms into a sure knowledge.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:42 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

I like your comment. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. The two biggest issues are corollary. One is the mantra of "don't judge", which leads to the other one of the LGBTQ+ question.

So many "doctrines" have become so muddied over the last 10-15 years. So no one knows what the Priesthood is anymore-it's been watered down to mean anything. An endowed woman saying a prayer-that's Priesthood Power! Umm okay well that's a new teaching-certainly not backed up by any Scripture, but it sounds nice and pleasing to modern ears so it's adopted.

Did you know that back in the mid 70s they would excommunicate-yes excommunicate members for simply ADVOCATING for polygamy. Now members can advocate for polygamy, divorce, homosexuality, polyamorous relationships they can ADVOCATE for anything . . .as long as they don't "practice" it.

The doctrine has become too squishy, too politically correct, too many corrections in order to avoid pushback. We change the Temple rites so they don't make ANY sense anymore. We "leave out" or claim Eve's curse is lifted-except if you lift Eve's curse, you remove Christ. Christ comes about specifically due to Eve's curse. But then we make all sorts of excuses to rationalize what is plainly obvious-parts were removed b/c of PC.

The Temple used to be perfectly clear on the connection between Eve, her curse, and Christ. Yet it is all removed. Removing "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; and he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise (crush-in old temple rites) his heel."-which that section is intimately connected to Eve's curse, just completely destroys the entire thing. Without that in the Temple the rites become meaningless. The Temple is literally and symbolically meaningless now. Christ has been removed from it. So we build grand buildings without the central figure of the entire thing.

Without Eve's Curse you don't have the section of scripture above, without the section above you don't have Christ, without Christ you have nothing-the Temple is totally meaningless now.

Yes the Church needs a Reformation, it needs it badly. A Reformation to whip everyone in line and shape people up . .. but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑February 6th, 2020, 12:39 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:42 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm
But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

I like your comment. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. The two biggest issues are corollary. One is the mantra of "don't judge", which leads to the other one of the LGBTQ+ question.

So many "doctrines" have become so muddied over the last 10-15 years. So no one knows what the Priesthood is anymore-it's been watered down to mean anything. An endowed woman saying a prayer-that's Priesthood Power! Umm okay well that's a new teaching-certainly not backed up by any Scripture, but it sounds nice and pleasing to modern ears so it's adopted.

Did you know that back in the mid 70s they would excommunicate-yes excommunicate members for simply ADVOCATING for polygamy. Now members can advocate for polygamy, divorce, homosexuality, polyamorous relationships they can ADVOCATE for anything . . .as long as they don't "practice" it.

The doctrine has become too squishy, too politically correct, too many corrections in order to avoid pushback. We change the Temple rites so they don't make ANY sense anymore. We "leave out" or claim Eve's curse is lifted-except if you lift Eve's curse, you remove Christ. Christ comes about specifically due to Eve's curse. But then we make all sorts of excuses to rationalize what is plainly obvious-parts were removed b/c of PC.

The Temple used to be perfectly clear on the connection between Eve, her curse, and Christ. Yet it is all removed. Removing "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; and he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise (crush-in old temple rites) his heel."-which that section is intimately connected to Eve's curse, just completely destroys the entire thing. Without that in the Temple the rites become meaningless. The Temple is literally and symbolically meaningless now. Christ has been removed from it. So we build grand buildings without the central figure of the entire thing.

Without Eve's Curse you don't have the section of scripture above, without the section above you don't have Christ, without Christ you have nothing-the Temple is totally meaningless now.

Yes the Church needs a Reformation, it needs it badly. A Reformation to whip everyone in line and shape people up . .. but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon.

The heel bruising and head crushing is still in the endowment.

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:42 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 11:49 am I think an adult session done in a similar fashion they do with the youth would be really nice, where they have a question & answer for all the many questions and concerns the adult membership has.

Or even if they have spent time compiling these questions then just straight up answer them in the combined meeting this spring.

I think unifying the membership would be a huge step towards creating a people who want to establish Zion.

But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

I like your comment. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. The two biggest issues are corollary. One is the mantra of "don't judge", which leads to the other one of the LGBTQ+ question.

So many "doctrines" have become so muddied over the last 10-15 years. So no one knows what the Priesthood is anymore-it's been watered down to mean anything. An endowed woman saying a prayer-that's Priesthood Power! Umm okay well that's a new teaching-certainly not backed up by any Scripture, but it sounds nice and pleasing to modern ears so it's adopted.

Did you know that back in the mid 70s they would excommunicate-yes excommunicate members for simply ADVOCATING for polygamy. Now members can advocate for polygamy, divorce, homosexuality, polyamorous relationships they can ADVOCATE for anything . . .as long as they don't "practice" it.

The doctrine has become too squishy, too politically correct, too many corrections in order to avoid pushback. We change the Temple rites so they don't make ANY sense anymore. We "leave out" or claim Eve's curse is lifted-except if you lift Eve's curse, you remove Christ. Christ comes about specifically due to Eve's curse. But then we make all sorts of excuses to rationalize what is plainly obvious-parts were removed b/c of PC.

The Temple used to be perfectly clear on the connection between Eve, her curse, and Christ. Yet it is all removed. Removing "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; and he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise (crush-in old temple rites) his heel."-which that section is intimately connected to Eve's curse, just completely destroys the entire thing. Without that in the Temple the rites become meaningless. The Temple is literally and symbolically meaningless now. Christ has been removed from it. So we build grand buildings without the central figure of the entire thing.

Without Eve's Curse you don't have the section of scripture above, without the section above you don't have Christ, without Christ you have nothing-the Temple is totally meaningless now.

Yes the Church needs a Reformation, it needs it badly. A Reformation to whip everyone in line and shape people up . .. but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon.

Connie561 wrote: ↑February 6th, 2020, 1:09 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:42 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:30 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑February 5th, 2020, 1:01 pm
But the Face2Face (if that's what your referring to) is very contrived. Yes it's nice to have a Q&A, but they select the questions, they pre-screen everything asked to make sure no questions fall too far outside of the box they want to stay in. You are never going to get real deep meaningful questions or answers from it-I've watched several.

The way I think they should do it was how I saw it done for a small adult session once. It was actually really awesome. They had an app you could log into with a special code for the session. Anyone could ask questions anonymously or give your name and you could also "like" other questions. They then answered as many of the most popular questions as they could. It was unscripted, it was relevant and very well done.

The Face2Face's are just way to controlled and contrived.

I agree unifying the membership would be great-but how? It's pretty much impossible in the US now-inside the Church it's pretty split conservative/liberal. How do you unify such drastically different worldviews?

I’m certainly not talking about unifying our every political view or personalities or anything like that. That’s impossible. But unifying the membership on beliefs of our doctrine is possible. It’s lies, secrets, mysteries, wish-washy answers of “you decide”, let’s all teach the gospel according to our own desires (sacrament, SS, Elders quorum/relief society) etc that has members all kind of thinking and doing it their own way. This leads to arguments and contention and even pride/vanity.

We all should know the doctrines of our gospel and the requirements of membership. And agree to them. Hard to agree when there are many versions and the official statements are not all encompassing.

I like the idea of the on the spot questions, that could last for a week or more! Lol

I think it’s possible when the parameters are laid out with clarity, surety, and strictness. Of course, not all would agree but then again they are likely not a Zion type of person anyways. Not all members will or can make it because we do have our agency.

Truth is truth and where it is found it is good. Those who thrive and honor truth will always be attracted to it.

I like your comment. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. The two biggest issues are corollary. One is the mantra of "don't judge", which leads to the other one of the LGBTQ+ question.

So many "doctrines" have become so muddied over the last 10-15 years. So no one knows what the Priesthood is anymore-it's been watered down to mean anything. An endowed woman saying a prayer-that's Priesthood Power! Umm okay well that's a new teaching-certainly not backed up by any Scripture, but it sounds nice and pleasing to modern ears so it's adopted.

Did you know that back in the mid 70s they would excommunicate-yes excommunicate members for simply ADVOCATING for polygamy. Now members can advocate for polygamy, divorce, homosexuality, polyamorous relationships they can ADVOCATE for anything . . .as long as they don't "practice" it.

The doctrine has become too squishy, too politically correct, too many corrections in order to avoid pushback. We change the Temple rites so they don't make ANY sense anymore. We "leave out" or claim Eve's curse is lifted-except if you lift Eve's curse, you remove Christ. Christ comes about specifically due to Eve's curse. But then we make all sorts of excuses to rationalize what is plainly obvious-parts were removed b/c of PC.

The Temple used to be perfectly clear on the connection between Eve, her curse, and Christ. Yet it is all removed. Removing "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; and he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise (crush-in old temple rites) his heel."-which that section is intimately connected to Eve's curse, just completely destroys the entire thing. Without that in the Temple the rites become meaningless. The Temple is literally and symbolically meaningless now. Christ has been removed from it. So we build grand buildings without the central figure of the entire thing.

Without Eve's Curse you don't have the section of scripture above, without the section above you don't have Christ, without Christ you have nothing-the Temple is totally meaningless now.

Yes the Church needs a Reformation, it needs it badly. A Reformation to whip everyone in line and shape people up . .. but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon.

I would like to bring up that the curse you refer to about women is closely associated with the atonement of Jesus Christ. When women give birth there is water, blood, and pain. The same thing happened in the in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross, blood, water and pain. When Jesus wants this cup to pass, there isn't a woman who has not thought the same thing when she goes into labor. Women bring and innocent person from one side of the veil to this world. Jesus bring an innocent person from the grave through his body through the veil.

So the connection is there that while Satan is going to try to destroy God's Plan of Exaltation by wounding him by our sins. Jesus Christ has the power to save us and crush any attempts by Satan by crushing his work to keep us away from Heavenly Father.

Edit: That is one of the reasons Satan promotes abortion. Giving birth is symbolic of Jesus Christ and his atonement and that someday we will be resurrected.