List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

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Alexander
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by Alexander »

Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 9:49 pm
TylerDurden wrote: January 30th, 2020, 4:04 pm -you can’t pray to Jesus
Oh boy . This one right here. AMEN.

First off, all throughout the scriptures they are praying to the Lord Jehovah, who was, and is Jesus Christ, the Eternal Father. The Father of Heaven and Earth. He begat them, they became his Sons and Daughters. This idea is admittedly really hard to understand without studying Lectures on Faith. It never clicked until I read the lecture about the Godhead. Lectures on Faith, John 17, 3 Nephi 19.

3 Nephi 19 is the best example. When I've shown it to people who say it's wrong to pray to Jesus, they are just perplexed. They doubt it even though it's right in front of them. The disciples are praying directly to Jesus.
Amen and Amen

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Luke
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by Luke »

Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 7:21 pm
mahalanobis wrote: January 30th, 2020, 7:17 pm Can something be non scriptural, and yet be true?

Can something go against scripture, and yet be true?
Yes, and I have made that point many times on other threads , that’s why I didn’t say these things were false, just unscriptural .

However, some of the items listed are contradicted by scripture and as a result should not be embraced .

I don’t think something can go against scripture and be true. Especially the Book of Mormon.
Lol literally all of these are false beliefs

LDS Watchman
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by LDS Watchman »

Overall I think the list in the OP is very good and the items in the subsequent posts are, too.

A few of the so-called "false beliefs" were taught by Joseph Smith and others are logical conclusions based on the scriptures and his teachings.

-Joseph Smith at least once referred to Jesus Christ as his brother.

-Joseph Smith taught that people cannot receive revelation for those higher in authority than themselves.

The D&C also teaches that only the President of the church can receive revelation for the entire church.

-Joseph Smith taught that baptisms for the dead are a neccessary welding link lest the earth be smitten with a curse and that baptisms for the dead should be done for one's ancestors.

A few other items...

-Heavenly Mother is completely unscriptural. However it is logical. According to BY our Heavenly Mother is Eve.

-Calling out to Christ (praying to him) for forgiveness of sins is permitted, but Christ specifically taught us to pray to the Father in His name. So this is the method we should generally follow.

Here are some common unscriptural beliefs to add to the list:

-A man having more than one wife at the same time is/was NEVER approved nor commanded of God.

-The full baptism of fire is available to anyone at any time in earth's history

-Blacks (Canaanites/descendants of Cain) can have the Lord's priesthood and enter his holy house

-Divorce and remarriage is not adultery

-Eve was wise in partaking of the forbidden fruit and not deceived

-Women currently have the priesthood because of temple ordinances

-women should be ordained to the priesthood

-Homosexuals are born that way and there's nothing wrong with Sodomy

-the great flood in Noah's day is a myth or if it is real then it didn't cover the entire earth

-macro evolution is how God created life upon the earth and there were pre-Adamites and death before the fall of Adam in the garden

-God's love is unconditional

-We should NEVER judge others nor their actions

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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by LDS Watchman »

Here's a few more...

The husband is not the head of the wife. Husband and wife are to be equal partners

Theres nothing wrong with having statues and paintings of "Christ" and even looking at them while praying

EmmaLee
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by EmmaLee »

Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 9:44 pm
h_p wrote: January 30th, 2020, 5:06 pm The veil is death and/or forgetfulness.

This leads to people thinking that the endowment ceremony represents our inevitable meeting with God after we die. Also that we'll remember everything from pre-mortality after we die.
Guess I haven't thought about this much. It's really not in scriptures I guess, but I always believed it to be true. (Not the part about the endowment, but about remembering stuff when we die). I guess if we remembered everything then everyone in spirit prison would easily accept the gospel.

When is the veil lifted then?
I believe the veil will not be fully lifted until Judgement Day. I have no "proof" or scriptural evidence of this - it's just my personal belief and what was revealed to me when I prayed about it. People are still repenting, learning, progressing, etc. after death, in the spirit world, and will continue to do so until the final judgement - so if the veil is fully lifted before then, that would remove agency and faith, IMO.

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h_p
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by h_p »

Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 9:44 pm
h_p wrote: January 30th, 2020, 5:06 pm The veil is death and/or forgetfulness.

This leads to people thinking that the endowment ceremony represents our inevitable meeting with God after we die. Also that we'll remember everything from pre-mortality after we die.
Guess I haven't thought about this much. It's really not in scriptures I guess, but I always believed it to be true. (Not the part about the endowment, but about remembering stuff when we die). I guess if we remembered everything then everyone in spirit prison would easily accept the gospel.

When is the veil lifted then?
There really isn't a lot in the scriptures about pre-mortality. Pretty much everything is modern-day stuff and/or speculation, from what I can tell.

The only definition for the veil that I've been able to find in the scriptures is in the Book of Mormon, where it's called the veil of unbelief, or a veil of darkness. Ether 3, 4, and 12 are to me, the best description of what it is, and how it's lifted. Not that I'm claiming any personal experience...

Bottom line: the veil is what separates us from God. If we believe the veil is the fact that we're mortal, it denies one of the great messages of the Book of Mormon, imo.

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h_p
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by h_p »

Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 9:46 pm
cab wrote: January 30th, 2020, 4:27 pm That Jesus is our elder brother.
I mean, he is, isn't he? I feel like this isn't a wrong statement, but It really bugs me when people refer to him as our brother. He is too glorious for us to comprehend in our carnal state, for us to lay our eyes upon him. Were he here, we'd all fall to our knees and look down. To refer to him as our brother just seems to take away from everything that He IS, even if it's *technically* correct.
Mosiah 5:7: And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

This is why I think it's wrong to refer to Him as our brother. If we have entered into a covenant with him, through either baptism of water or fire, He is now our Father.

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nightlight
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by nightlight »

h_p wrote: January 31st, 2020, 9:53 am
Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 9:44 pm
h_p wrote: January 30th, 2020, 5:06 pm The veil is death and/or forgetfulness.

This leads to people thinking that the endowment ceremony represents our inevitable meeting with God after we die. Also that we'll remember everything from pre-mortality after we die.
Guess I haven't thought about this much. It's really not in scriptures I guess, but I always believed it to be true. (Not the part about the endowment, but about remembering stuff when we die). I guess if we remembered everything then everyone in spirit prison would easily accept the gospel.

When is the veil lifted then?
There really isn't a lot in the scriptures about pre-mortality. Pretty much everything is modern-day stuff and/or speculation, from what I can tell.

The only definition for the veil that I've been able to find in the scriptures is in the Book of Mormon, where it's called the veil of unbelief, or a veil of darkness. Ether 3, 4, and 12 are to me, the best description of what it is, and how it's lifted. Not that I'm claiming any personal experience...

Bottom line: the veil is what separates us from God. If we believe the veil is the fact that we're mortal, it denies one of the great messages of the Book of Mormon, imo.
Obviously its not just a veil of unbelief...on account of believing in Christ doesn't bring back, to our mortal self, our memories of our past life

Do you believe you lived&grew as spiritual being before you took your body? Do you believe that you choose the Plan of the Father.... and denied the Plan of Lucifier?

If you believe these things...........you don't remember these things, HENCE THE VEIL OVER YOUR MIND.

Imo...the veil is a multi layered force.

The brother of Jared broke the veil over his eyes...but he still need Jesus to explain who He was.... I doubt bro of Jared remembered his past life when he broke the veil to see the Lord.

Or....like modern Christians, you could believe there was no past life for us. They believe they came into being in their mother's womb.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by BruceRGilbert »

A most disturbing belief is that once an ordinance is received it is bound in heaven WITHOUT the spiritual ratification of the Holy Spirit of Promise.

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h_p
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by h_p »

nightlight wrote: January 31st, 2020, 10:13 am Obviously its not just a veil of unbelief...on account of believing in Christ doesn't bring back, to our mortal self, our memories of our past life

Do you believe you lived&grew as spiritual being before you took your body? Do you believe that you choose the Plan of the Father.... and denied the Plan of Lucifier?

If you believe these things...........you don't remember these things, HENCE THE VEIL OVER YOUR MIND.

Imo...the veil is a multi layered force.

The brother of Jared broke the veil over his eyes...but he still need Jesus to explain who He was.... I doubt bro of Jared remembered his past life when he broke the veil to see the Lord.

Or....like modern Christians, you could believe there was no past life for us. They believe they came into being in their mother's womb.
No, I believe we existed as spirits before we were born. But referring to whatever mechanism caused us to forget our past existence as "The Veil" leads to some really messed up thinking about the gospel, in my opinion.
I doubt bro of Jared remembered his past life when he broke the veil to see the Lord.
Which is good reason for not calling it a veil.

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XEmilyX
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by XEmilyX »

Well theres one that is actually true on that list. The sacrament does cleanse your sins when you take it. God revealed how it works when one day I made a mistake that I needed to repent of, I felt dirty and bad and gross inside. I went to church, asked for forgiveness and took the sacrament. My entire teenage self felt all of the darkness, sin, and bad feelings suddenly get lifted and taken from me. I was absolutely shocked that this happened. I couldn't get rid of those feelings and sins myself and they were taken from me.

I've also been forgiven while praying to God in another incident. I plead for 2 hours for forgiveness and I heard "your sins are forgiven," from a very loving strong voice.

:)

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Niemand
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by Niemand »

Zathura wrote: January 30th, 2020, 3:17 pm Mainstream Beliefs
  • There is no Born Again event , instead you are Born Again over your whole lifetime.
  • You cannot receive a remission of sins prior to baptism or without the Laying on of Hands(There are a disturbing number of examples that disprove this, including Joseph Smith)
  • The Sacrament renews your covenants.
Some of these are half-right. I would argue that being born again is often a single event and the process of a lifetime. I think this is a reaction to so called born again Christians who rely too much on a single event.

The sacrament is a renewal of sorts if you take it seriously and devoutly, as is repentance.
  • We should teach poor and hungry people self reliance instead of giving them money
It's not a terrible idea at all since it helps create long term stability for many such people.
Widespread, But Not Quite Mainstream Beliefs
  • Water Baptism cleanses you of your sins, and you are reborn
  • The Sacrament cleanses you of your sins like a mini baptism
Water is compared to burial and resurrection, in the scriptures. I would also argue it is a mirror to physical birth since that involves "waters."

The sacrament is a chance to repent which is not a bad thing.

Less Common Beliefs
  • The Brethren are the Ministering Angels
  • Us, the Latter Day Saints are the Ministering Angels to other people in need
  • People who have large spiritual experiences only have them because they need them to believe, others believe easily
Angel means messenger. It is scriptural for it to refer to humans as well as angelic beings.

The last is answered partly by Matthew 12:39 – But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas

mtmom
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Re: List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

Post by mtmom »

LDS Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2020, 8:16 am Here's a few more...


Theres nothing wrong with having statues and paintings of "Christ" and even looking at them while praying

- Exodus 20:4
"4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

I think this includes the statue of the Christus, along with paintings of Jesus. Sorry folks, but I think these can be seen as idols because we are making Christ into what we think he should look like. I know this is controversial. We are be coming more and more like the Catholic church with all their statues.

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