List Of Non Scriptural Ideas And Doctrines Embraced By Members

[Zathura]

Mainstream Beliefs

• There is no Born Again event , instead you are Born Again over your whole lifetime.

• You cannot receive a remission of sins prior to baptism or without the Laying on of Hands(There are a disturbing number of examples that disprove this, including Joseph Smith)

• The Sacrament renews your covenants.

• The Prophet cannot lead you astray

• The Church is God's Kingdom and therefore cannot go apostate

• The confirmation IS The baptism of fire

• The gathering of Israel is not a literal physical gathering of people into one place

• When there is a new President of the Church, they automatically become a Prophet because of a spiritual "Mantle" placed upon them.

• We should teach poor and hungry people self reliance instead of giving them money

• You can't receive revelation in regards to other people outside your "Stewardship"

• God won't send prophets from outside his established church organization

• Common consent is not a "vote" like the typical meaning of the word, it's just sustaining the call

Widespread, But Not Quite Mainstream Beliefs

• Water Baptism cleanses you of your sins, and you are reborn

• The Sacrament cleanses you of your sins like a mini baptism

• You CANNOT be cleansed of your sins if you haven't confessed to a priesthood leader, even if you have had a spiritual experience that gives you cause to think otherwise

• Miraculous manifestations of the Spirit/God are meant mostly for leaders of the Church

• Obedience to man made rules like the Missionary handbook or Church policies result in spiritual blessings

• Most blessings that don't cure a sickness were "God's Will"

Less Common Beliefs

• The Brethren are the Ministering Angels

• Us, the Latter Day Saints are the Ministering Angels to other people in need

• People who have large spiritual experiences only have them because they need them to believe, others believe easily

• It is DANGEROUS to seek Calling and Election or the Second Comforter

Okay I'll stop there. Others can add to the list if they so desire.

What do most of these have in common?

They are soothing. They are comforting. They are pleasing to the ear.
If they aren't soothing and comforting to your personal fears and anxiety, they are pleasing to your concerns about the progress of the Church, or claims the church makes.

Rebirth is a life long process, so no need to put in the effort, and the tears, and the sacrifice to obtain spiritual manifestations from the Lord? Pleasing.

Prophet can't lead us astray? That brings comfort, no need to be vigilant?

"I have never seen an angel.. is my faith not sufficient?" Wait.. The Brethren, or the Saints ARE the ministering angels? Wait, these experiences must be meant for leaders. that must mean my faith is sufficient actually. That's soothing.

Have I received the baptism of fire? Well.. I can't recall any special experience.. but X,Y reassured me that it happened during my confirmation. That eases my anxiety

I work really hard for my money, and this beggar will just waste what I give him. That's why we need to teach him self reliance to make his own money. Then we all can keep our money, that's comforting.

I can't recall any moment where I knew my sins and guilt were swept away.. but the Sacrament cleanses me so I'm okay as long as I attend church

I can't recall any moment where I felt a remission of sins, but X,Y tells me that it's a lifelong process and I shouldn't have concerns if I haven't had any experiences. "Most People" don't have those experiences. Whew. I was worried for my salvation, but I think I feel better now

My parent/sibling/friend has not ever had a strong spiritual experience, never took a massive interest in Spiritual things even though he/she was always active.. does this mean he/she won't get to the Celestial Kingdom? Of course not! I'm told that most people don't have them anyway. It's all just a long process. That's such a relief, I didn't want to be without that person.

P.S. I left a few things off this list, even though I think they belong. No interest in being the cause of yet another discussion on certain topics

[Luke]

"If you question Church leadership you are an apostate and follower of the devil." (an unfortunate but rampant one)

"We don't believe in the Apocrypha." (a member of the Bishopric literally said this the other day)

"The Church of the Lamb of God is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (another unfortunate belief which is too common)

"Using the word 'Mormon' is wrong and the devil is happy when you do so." (Joseph, Brigham et al. have just been indicted)

"Every scripture talking about the end-time servant was actually referring to the restoration, or something else." (I can barely be bothered to start with this one...)

"Scripture which tells us we are not on track weren't really meant for us, they were meant for someone else." (again, it's just too tiresome to even try and refute anymore)

[Alexander]

I call these type of things “false traditions” and “unbelief”
Here are some others of what you are talking about:
-The devil can’t know your thoughts
-we shouldn’t have the lord direct us in all things. We have to figure it out first by ourselves and come to him after for confirmation.
-there are mortal limits to personal revelation
-feelings are absolute
-things that are new or uncomfortable are false
-confusion is of the devil
-there isn’t a reality of dark spirits (they aren’t all around us)
-gifts of the spirit and spiritual manifeststions are “too sacred” to talk about
-you can’t pray to Jesus
-we (members of the church) aren’t gentiles

[Luke]

Oh yeah, I forgot the main one(s): "The Holy Ghost is a feeling." and "People feel the Holy Ghost in different ways, which includes a positive emotional reaction."

Weirdly, the Scriptures nor Joseph Smith taught this.

[Alexander]

Some more:
- we shouldn’t talk about heavenly mother
-Jesus will lead us down dark paths (to show us the right path)
-personal relationships with Christ aren’t important
-spiritual conversion doesn’t happen like Alma the younger or Saul. It comes slowly overt time
-if the bretheren have never mentioned it, it must not be true
-church activity = salvation
-the bretheren are more entitled to revelation and spiritual encounters
-you have to be a certain age, race, or sex to be more able to commune with god and have a relationship with him
-baptism of fire and Holy Ghost Is different, new, and scary, so we must avoid it. (Same with second comforter)

[cab]

That Satan's angels or sons of perdition or Satan himself would never be allowed to receive bodies.

[cab]

That Jesus is our elder brother.

[Alexander]

-that we shouldn’t seek for visions and dreams
-we can’t listen to what excommunicated people have to say. Stay away at all costs.

[Alexander]

-just do your best in our dead works, and at last God’s grace will save us. “God doesn’t expect us to be perfect!”
-if we don’t understand a mystery, just wait until you die and go to the next world to understand it

[Zathura]

I see phantom removed his post after his knee jerk reaction.

I see no reason to whine or complain about this post.

It’s merely a list of items I’ve never been able to prove with scripture. If anyone is sure that an item doesn’t belong here, they should have no problem providing the scripture.

If someone doesn’t understand the problem with believing in something that’s not true, I’d invite them to study “unbelief”.

[cab]

That we should spend countless hours on geneology work.

[cab]

That the spirit of Elijah has anything to do with geneology work...

[h_p]

The veil is death and/or forgetfulness.

This leads to people thinking that the endowment ceremony represents our inevitable meeting with God after we die. Also that we'll remember everything from pre-mortality after we die.

[cab]

That renewing one's Covenant through rebaptism is a sin.

That deciding to take the sacrament in the privacy of one's own home, as part of their personal communion with the Lord, is a sin.

[Alexander]

That it’s not ok to use wine for the sacrament

[mahalanobis]

Can something be non scriptural, and yet be true?

Can something go against scripture, and yet be true?

[Zathura]

Can something be non scriptural, and yet be true?

Can something go against scripture, and yet be true?

Yes, and I have made that point many times on other threads , that’s why I didn’t say these things were false, just unscriptural .

However, some of the items listed are contradicted by scripture and as a result should not be embraced .

I don’t think something can go against scripture and be true. Especially the Book of Mormon.

[mahalanobis]

Can something be non scriptural, and yet be true?

Can something go against scripture, and yet be true?

Yes, and I have made that point many times on other threads , that’s why I didn’t say these things were false, just unscriptural .

However, some of the items listed are contradicted by scripture and as a result should not be embraced .

I don’t think something can go against scripture and be true. Especially the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, I have no qualms with wide spectrums of beliefs. The ideal scenario is recognizing which are scriptural and which are not.

We have these religious sources of doctrinal information and practices and truth:

• Directly from God. This is CLEARLY the ideal. I put the Holy Ghost in this category. However, people are deceived all the time. The purpose of mortality is to be tried, so we don't get a free pass to walk with God. Most people are still learning to discern the Spirit. So this is an imperfect channel because of the fallen nature of man and the deceiving nature of the adversary

• The Scriptures. This is the word of God. But it's also imperfect because so much of it is up for interpretation. The parts that aren't up for interpretation are subject to poor translation and even uninspired edits. Even the authors of the Book of Mormon lamented the errors in the book.

• Leaders. This is clearly imperfect. Leaders are liable to fall and to exercise unrighteous dominion. Wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. But God's servants are a huge blessing to His children.

It's all one "[dark] glass". Yes, some folks like to come here and say that they've had their calling and election made sure and that it's all so clear to them... Well for the rest of us 99.99%, it's good to recognize that going to any extreme is unwise. And of course listening to the philosophies of the world is a terrible idea (please don't interpret my statements as an excuse to trust in the arm of the flesh, they're not).

[cab]

Heavenly Mother is an example of a non-scriptural doctrine that is likely true.

Aside from the testimonies many (not Leaders of the church) have shared of her, "truth is reason; truth eternal tells me I've a mother there."

[Zathura]

Can something be non scriptural, and yet be true?

Can something go against scripture, and yet be true?

Yes, and I have made that point many times on other threads , that’s why I didn’t say these things were false, just unscriptural .

However, some of the items listed are contradicted by scripture and as a result should not be embraced .

I don’t think something can go against scripture and be true. Especially the Book of Mormon.

Yeah, I have no qualms with wide spectrums of beliefs. The ideal scenario is recognizing which are scriptural and which are not.

We have these religious sources of doctrinal information and practices and truth:

• Directly from God. This is CLEARLY the ideal. I put the Holy Ghost in this category. However, people are deceived all the time. The purpose of mortality is to be tried, so we don't get a free pass to walk with God. Most people are still learning to discern the Spirit. So this is an imperfect channel because of the fallen nature of man and the deceiving nature of the adversary

• The Scriptures. This is the word of God. But it's also imperfect because so much of it is up for interpretation. The parts that aren't up for interpretation are subject to poor translation and even uninspired edits. Even the authors of the Book of Mormon lamented the errors in the book.

• Leaders. This is clearly imperfect. Leaders are liable to fall and to exercise unrighteous dominion. Wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. But God's servants are a huge blessing to His children.

It's all one "[dark] glass". Yes, some folks like to come here and say that they've had their calling and election made sure and that it's all so clear to them... Well for the rest of us 99.99%, it's good to recognize that going to any extreme is unwise. And of course listening to the philosophies of the world is a terrible idea (please don't interpret my statements as an excuse to trust in the arm of the flesh, they're not).

I agree with your post. I don't really have qualms with a wide spectrum of beliefs, but I really do take issue with the fact that there are so many teachings that aren't even in scripture that happen to be preached more often and are embraced more firmly than other doctrines that have a very firm foundation in scripture.

What is in scripture regarding the spiritual rebirth, for example, is that it appears to be a single event. The scriptures do not explicitly say that this whole process idea can't exist at the same time too, but because of this, the default mainstream belief SHOULD BE the one that is IN THE SCRIPTURES, and not the one that is not. This is my problem. The idea that is very clearly in the scriptures is the one that's resisted and attacked most by members, and the one that's not in the scriptures is the one preached from the pulpit in Conference and posted all throughout Church material.

Now, to be fair to church leaders, and I point this out often, one of them(I believe it was Anderson or Christofferson) even admitted that the idea of the Sacrament renewing your covenants is "Not scriptural but that doesn't make it not true"(paraphrasing). I'm with them on that. It doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but if it's gonna be spouted about in every single conference, and every talk in my ward and stake that talks about the Sacrament, shouldn't we be SURE that this non-scriptural doctrine is actually legit, and not a precept of man?

[Zathura]

The veil is death and/or forgetfulness.

This leads to people thinking that the endowment ceremony represents our inevitable meeting with God after we die. Also that we'll remember everything from pre-mortality after we die.

Guess I haven't thought about this much. It's really not in scriptures I guess, but I always believed it to be true. (Not the part about the endowment, but about remembering stuff when we die). I guess if we remembered everything then everyone in spirit prison would easily accept the gospel.

When is the veil lifted then?

[Zathura]

That we should spend countless hours on geneology work.

Yes, this is something I've just never connected with. Ever. I get that people have shared cool experiences with their ancestors in the Temple and all, but.. idk. No matter how many times I've spent time doing this or studying it.. nothin.

[Zathura]

That Jesus is our elder brother.

I mean, he is, isn't he? I feel like this isn't a wrong statement, but It really bugs me when people refer to him as our brother. He is too glorious for us to comprehend in our carnal state, for us to lay our eyes upon him. Were he here, we'd all fall to our knees and look down. To refer to him as our brother just seems to take away from everything that He IS, even if it's *technically* correct.

[Zathura]

-you can’t pray to Jesus

Oh boy . This one right here. AMEN.

First off, all throughout the scriptures they are praying to the Lord Jehovah, who was, and is Jesus Christ, the Eternal Father. The Father of Heaven and Earth. He begat them, they became his Sons and Daughters. This idea is admittedly really hard to understand without studying Lectures on Faith. It never clicked until I read the lecture about the Godhead. Lectures on Faith, John 17, 3 Nephi 19.

3 Nephi 19 is the best example. When I've shown it to people who say it's wrong to pray to Jesus, they are just perplexed. They doubt it even though it's right in front of them. The disciples are praying directly to Jesus.

[abijah`]

Heavenly Mother is an example of a non-scriptural doctrine that is likely true.

true, unless you want to make the stretch to say these scriptures, or something like the Song of Songs are the exception -

22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work,
the first of his acts of old.
23 Ages ago I was set up,
at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
when there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains had been shaped,
before the hills, I was brought forth,
26 before he had made the earth with its fields,
or the first of the dust of the world.
27 When he established the heavens, I was there

13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.