Prophecies of the Church

[Alexander]

2 Nephi 28
3 For it shall come to pass in that day that the churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, when the one shall say unto the other: Behold, I, I AM THE LORD’S; and the others shall say: I, I am the Lord’s; and thus shall every one say that hath built up churches, and NOT UNTO THE LORD—
4 And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning, and DENY THE HOLY GHOST, which giveth utterance.
5 And they DENY THE POWER OF GOD, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and HE HATH GIVEN HIS POWER UNTO MEN;
6 Behold, hearken ye unto my precept; if they shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles; he hath done his work.
7 Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have ALL GONE OUT OF THE WAY; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of PRIDE, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They ROB THE POOR because of their FINE SANCTUARIES; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have ALL GONE ASTRAY save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!


Mormon 8
28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.

32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.
33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.

Helaman 12
5 Yea, how quick to be lifted up in pride; yea, how quick to boast, and do all manner of that which is iniquity; and how slow are they to remember the Lord their God, and to give ear unto his counsels, yea, how slow to walk in wisdom’s paths!
6 Behold, they do not desire that the Lord their God, who hath created them, should rule and reign over them; notwithstanding his great goodness and his mercy towards them, they do set at naught his counsels, and they will not that he should be their guide.

3 Nephi 30
1 Hearken, O ye Gentiles, and hear the words of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, which he hath commanded me that I should speak concerning you, for, behold he commandeth me that I should write, saying:
2 Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your IDOLATRIES, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and COME UNTO ME, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with MY PEOPLE who are of the house of Israel.

[Alexander]

Alma 31
13 For they had a place built up in the center of their synagogue, a place for standing, which was high above the head; and the top thereof would only admit one person.
14 Therefore, whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying:
15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.
16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast SEPARATED US FROM OUR BRETHEREN; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast ELECTED US TO BE THY HOLY CHILDREN; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there shall be no Christ.
17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.
18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.
19 Now it came to pass that after Alma and his brethren and his sons had heard these prayers, they were astonished beyond all measure.
20 For behold, every man did go forth and offer up these same prayers.
21 Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand.
22 Now, from this stand they did offer up, every man, the selfsame prayer unto God, thanking their God that they were chosen of him, and that he did not lead them away after the tradition of their brethren, and that their hearts were not stolen away to believe in things to come, which they knew nothing about.

[The East Wind]

Do you believe these prophecies are about the LDS church?

[Hosh]

Do you believe these prophecies are about the LDS church?

Do you completely rule out the possibility?

[The East Wind]

Do you believe these prophecies are about the LDS church?

Do you completely rule out the possibility?

Yes, In order for this to happen the wards of the church would have to go rouge, otherwise those scriptures would not make sense. We are now considered one church, not churches, as those scriptures suggest. And I don’t see a bunch of wards splintering off into different factions. If that were to happen; then entire wards would be excommunicated and then they would not be a part of the Church, which is singular.

[Hosh]

Do you believe these prophecies are about the LDS church?

Do you completely rule out the possibility?

Yes, In order for this to happen the wards of the church would have to go rouge, otherwise those scriptures would not make sense. We are now considered one church, not churches, as those scriptures suggest. And I don’t see a bunch of wards splintering off into different factions. If that were to happen; then entire wards would be excommunicated and then they would not be a part of the Church, which is singular.

Ok. There is another perspective that exists. That's all.

[The East Wind]

Do you believe these prophecies are about the LDS church?

Do you completely rule out the possibility?

Yes, In order for this to happen the wards of the church would have to go rouge, otherwise those scriptures would not make sense. We are now considered one church, not churches, as those scriptures suggest. And I don’t see a bunch of wards splintering off into different factions. If that were to happen; then entire wards would be excommunicated and then they would not be a part of the Church, which is singular.

Ok. There is another perspective that exists. That's all.

What is your interpretation of these scriptures? The OP has not stated what his is. From the title he has hinted.

[mahalanobis]

You're missing another book of Mormon prophesy that speaks directly to us. But I'm hesitant to throw fuel on this fire. Here's why:

• some people make these lists because they're antis pretending to be concerned citizen, trying to shake the faith of the readers who are likely already disillusioned.

• some people make these lists because they've been hurt by the church and have an ax to grind to validate their world view.

• some people have a sin they need to confess, it's too hard, so it's easier to throw rocks at the church's authority to absolve themselves of the need to confess.

• some people like the sensationalistic outrage porn, or they're just bored.

• some people just think they're smarter and they take it upon themselves to be a prophet. They come on here and say extremely condescending things to everybody else.

• and of course there are those who love the church and who pray every day for the church. They are concerned for the trajectory we're on. They don't disparage the leaders, but they hope for the best when they see decisions that have red flags. Like Moses' arms that need sustaining during the fight. We can either point out how weak Moses' arms are, or we can help lift them up. This group has eyes wide open about the problems, but they aren't encouraging people to to leave the church. They think: it's better to save and salvage it than to abandon ship altogether. And no, this group doesn't worship the leaders. They put Christ first, but that means they care about His words which includes the command to organize a church.

That last group is a small group indeed. That's the group I'm in.

[The East Wind]

You're missing another book of Mormon prophesy that speaks directly to us. But I'm hesitant to throw fuel on this fire. Here's why:

• some people make these lists because they're antis pretending to be concerned citizen, trying to shake the faith of the readers who are likely already disillusioned.

• some people make these lists because they've been hurt by the church and have an ax to grind to validate their world view.

• some people have a sin they need to confess, it's too hard, so it's easier to throw rocks at the church's authority to absolve themselves of the need to confess.

• some people like the sensationalistic outrage porn, or they're just bored.

• some people just think they're smarter and they take it upon themselves to be a prophet. They come on here and say extremely condescending things to everybody else.

• and of course there are those who love the church and who pray every day for the church. They are concerned for the trajectory we're on. They don't disparage the leaders, but they hope for the best when they see decisions that have red flags. Like Moses' arms that need sustaining during the fight. We can either point out how weak Moses' arms are, or we can help lift them up. This group has eyes wide open about the problems, but they aren't encouraging people to to leave the church. They think: it's better to save and salvage it than to abandon ship altogether. And no, this group doesn't worship the leaders. They put Christ first, but that means they care about His words which includes the command to organize a church.

That last group is a small group indeed. That's the group I'm in.

Most believe we are led by a Prophet and Jesus Christ is the head. Most believe that the church is making all the right moves to set us up for the future. Most believe that so called mistakes that members see ( especially on this site) will eventually make sense. Most have complete faith and trust in the brethren while also relying upon the Lord for comfort and clarification when needed.

[Bronco73idi]

Troll

[mahalanobis]

You're missing another book of Mormon prophesy that speaks directly to us. But I'm hesitant to throw fuel on this fire. Here's why:

• some people make these lists because they're antis pretending to be concerned citizen, trying to shake the faith of the readers who are likely already disillusioned.

• some people make these lists because they've been hurt by the church and have an ax to grind to validate their world view.

• some people have a sin they need to confess, it's too hard, so it's easier to throw rocks at the church's authority to absolve themselves of the need to confess.

• some people like the sensationalistic outrage porn, or they're just bored.

• some people just think they're smarter and they take it upon themselves to be a prophet. They come on here and say extremely condescending things to everybody else.

• and of course there are those who love the church and who pray every day for the church. They are concerned for the trajectory we're on. They don't disparage the leaders, but they hope for the best when they see decisions that have red flags. Like Moses' arms that need sustaining during the fight. We can either point out how weak Moses' arms are, or we can help lift them up. This group has eyes wide open about the problems, but they aren't encouraging people to to leave the church. They think: it's better to save and salvage it than to abandon ship altogether. And no, this group doesn't worship the leaders. They put Christ first, but that means they care about His words which includes the command to organize a church.

That last group is a small group indeed. That's the group I'm in.

Most believe we are led by a Prophet and Jesus Christ is the head. Most believe that the church is making all the right moves to set us up for the future. Most believe that so called mistakes that members see ( especially on this site) will eventually make sense. Most have complete faith and trust in the brethren while also relying upon the Lord for comfort and clarification when needed.

I agree that this is the case. I was referring to the people who come and make lists of prophesies about a negative future for the church. Of all the people who spend time posting on the topic, they'll all fall into one or more of these groups.

I felt that was clear. I apologise if it was not.

[abijah`]

some fight club threads -

• - 'Prophecies of the Church'
  
  - 'Church history'
  
  - 'With church growth sputtering, does the Latter-day Saint missionary program need a tuneup or an overhaul?'
  
  - 'Jesus was considered apostate from the jewish church'
  
  - 'Personal revelation and coming home from mission'

all made in the past couple days. tells me a lot.

p.s. i think you shouldve stayed on your mission. look i dont know you, i dont know your circumstances, and i definitely dont know the lord's plans and pathway for you. but to be frank and candid, i dont think god dispensed revelation in this case, or indicated deviance from the norm in this situation.

i think god certainly can and has told men to do things otherwise contrary to his standard, and i do think in some instances he intends for missionaries to come home early. my uncle is one of the most christlike people i know - the lord absolutely intended for him to return early, and went out of his way to make sure that was the case.

exceptions to the rule do exist, however i have found that w/ the lord, the exempted person will almost surely be the one who desires not to be.

a baptism of fire is the highest of goals. its something we should all be striving for no matter who we are or where we're at, or how we fare in our spiritual progression. i just dont think coming home a year early will benefit you in this at all. again, i dont know you, and for all i do know, this is what the lord needs for you - its just, to me w/ my fallen vision and feeble understanding - preparingg for a baptism of fire, and laying hold upon the fruits of the spirit is so much easier to accomplish in the mission field as opposed to regular life.

[Durzan]

2 Nephi 28
3 For it shall come to pass in that day that the churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, when the one shall say unto the other: Behold, I, I AM THE LORD’S; and the others shall say: I, I am the Lord’s; and thus shall every one say that hath built up churches, and NOT UNTO THE LORD—
4 And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning, and DENY THE HOLY GHOST, which giveth utterance.
5 And they DENY THE POWER OF GOD, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and HE HATH GIVEN HIS POWER UNTO MEN;
6 Behold, hearken ye unto my precept; if they shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles; he hath done his work.
7 Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.
8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have ALL GONE OUT OF THE WAY; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of PRIDE, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They ROB THE POOR because of their FINE SANCTUARIES; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have ALL GONE ASTRAY save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!


Mormon 8
28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.

32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.
33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.

Helaman 12
5 Yea, how quick to be lifted up in pride; yea, how quick to boast, and do all manner of that which is iniquity; and how slow are they to remember the Lord their God, and to give ear unto his counsels, yea, how slow to walk in wisdom’s paths!
6 Behold, they do not desire that the Lord their God, who hath created them, should rule and reign over them; notwithstanding his great goodness and his mercy towards them, they do set at naught his counsels, and they will not that he should be their guide.

3 Nephi 30
1 Hearken, O ye Gentiles, and hear the words of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, which he hath commanded me that I should speak concerning you, for, behold he commandeth me that I should write, saying:
2 Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your IDOLATRIES, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and COME UNTO ME, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with MY PEOPLE who are of the house of Israel.

With all due respect mate, the line of thinking you have developed in this and other threads is incredibly dangerous for your own soul. If one is not careful while walking this path, they will find themselves become hardened, embittered, and blinded as they wander into forbidden paths. I know, because I've walked a similar path myself in the past. Heck, I'm still on that path in some ways.

Also, this forum is inherently Pro-LDS. So far, you have been fairly good about remaining respectful concerning this point, but with how much your posts seem to hold an implicit sense of criticalness and challenge to the church as a whole, it's worth pointing out that there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed. While we can and do wish to discuss potential problems and issues the church faces, including perceived problems in Church history, and so forth, this is not the place to criticize or slander either church leaders nor the Church as an organization. Continue to keep things nice and respectful, and try not to let your own biases (whatever they may be) cloud your judgment and we should be good.

[ChooseTruth]

I think what we see here with TylerDurden is a person working through a crisis of faith. Thousands of us have experienced them and you go through certain cycles in the process. What people in these circumstances need is an understanding perspective and encouragement to stay the course.

It’s been really telling and troubling how many people on this forum look to judge, condemn, and criticize others - particularly a young person trying to make sense of whether what he’s been taught to believe is actually true. I hope all on this forum can show love, respect and encouragement to those who share their questions and experiences openly.

[Mindfields]

Nephi, Moroni, Alma etc. spend the time to write down warnings to the Gentiles of the latter-days. The Gentiles, those whom these warnings are directed, ignore them because they weren't written for them. The Baptists, Catholic, etc. don't heed these warnings because they haven't even read them and regardless they don't believe what's written in the Book of Mormon. Nephi and the rest must be idiots and wasted their time recording these warnings. Or these warnings were given to a people that would read the Book of Mormon and consider it the word of God.

[The East Wind]

Nephi, Moroni, Alma etc. spend the time to write down warnings to the Gentiles of the latter-days. The Gentiles, those whom these warnings are directed, ignore them because they weren't written for them. The Baptists, Catholic, etc. don't heed these warnings because they haven't even read them and regardless they don't believe what's written in the Book of Mormon. Nephi and the rest must be idiots and wasted their time recording these warnings. Or these warnings were given to a people that would read the Book of Mormon and consider it the word of God.

So I guess people living in China who have never heard of Christ get a free pass? Do they not have to be baptized because they have never heard of such a thing?

[Mindfields]

Moroni seemed to think they would be fine without baptism.

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—

23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.