With church growth sputtering, does the Latter-day Saint missionary program need a tuneup or an overhaul?

[johnBob]

Many have mentioned the symptoms, but the root cause is because we've allowed ourselves to get soft with sin. We're soft in general, but what God is holding us accountable for is being soft on sin. The general conference talks ARE indeed pleasant and soothing, but that should not be mistaken for love. The church is being soft with and pandering to the homosexual movement. Nothing good can come of that. Even abortion is getting a pass now if it was done out of rape or incest. Sorry but don't we believe that the innocent should not be made to suffer with the guilty? That baby did nothing wrong, though that's one incident where the mother should be given the utmost in gentle treatment and support.
But I'd give a lot to be able to ask just one person in the general presidency when did love begin to involve JUST making people feel good all the time?

There's another possibility for the decline in membership, and it may have something to do with the reason the overall worldwide birthrate is dropping. Maybe we really ARE entering the final months of this dispensation and that there are simply fewer souls left that are coming across the veil?

Just for fun, I've been listening to this guy on youtube who claims to have these spirit boxes. He goes by the name huff paranormal on his channel, and while I'm deeply skeptical, they are still intriguing to listen too. Several "spirits" have already said that the world will end in 2020. Again, I don't take that seriously, but what got my attention was the reactions by other viewers. Time and time again, they said the same thing. That being that they've been having odd feelings that something was about to happen. They commented about how Christmas this year wasn't the same, and they just overall had eerie feelings about the future. THAT is what is very telling to me that the spirit world may be running out of souls to send here.

I don't believe for a second that God is running out of spirits to send to this Earth-as one Earth passes away another one comes into existence. God has more than enough spirits to send because he's got another Earth ready to go!

But as to the beginning of your comment-yes I believe that to be very accurate. We are soft, we have been for a little while but we are getting so soft that it's becoming harder and harder to deny it. Unfortunately if we look at pandering to the homosexual movement we miss the bigger blindspot and softness. We simply don't teach proper roles and relationships between men and women anymore. Homosexuality is simply an outgrowth of a society which has lost it's understanding of the basic roles between men and women and those societies never last very long.

[MMbelieve]

Would you give up your wife to the church? No hesitation? You, as a man, can make it all work at home without her?

Don’t judge me please. We have plenty of men young and old who do not have kids at home or a wife...send them.

Saying a husband and father is needed and wanted at home is quite a compliment these days, yet you just needed to tell me I have weaker faith....I will never understand some people.

For Christ, yes absolutely.

It is what He commands us that we do-be willing to sacrifice all that we have for Him. If the Church-which should be the Body of Christ here on the Earth, required married men to leave their families in order to preach the Gospel-then yes I would absolutely be willing to do so. The reward for that faith should be that the Church provides or at least ensures that my family is taken care of so she should not have to work.

You have generalized where I have not-you have made the claim that I said a husband and a father is not needed at home-false. I have merely said that we should practice as we did not but 150 years ago and send mature men on missions rather than little children. Those men are not gone for the entire time of the upbringing of their children-but only for a time, a year maybe, maybe a little less maybe a little more.

Husbands do this for their families all the time-except for another god-money. Husbands go on business trips during the week, they may only be home every weekend or maybe only for 2 hours an evening.

Which god is more important, mammon or God?

Since the church has stated somewhat recently that men should try to avoid living and working away from their family then there is something to it.

FYI, my husband does stuff with the church that doesn’t involve me so I already do as you assume I lack the faith to.

You also have generalized.

You know you are a really hard person to have a conversation with-you and Sarah both. Just as an FYI, it is REALLY hard to actually communicate with you-and I do try.

I'm not going to claim that if the time ACTUALLY came where I would be required to give up family that I would do it-but I recognize that it is what Christ actually commands us. It's what we covenant to in the Temple. So I recognize that I at least need to be willing to say yes-which I am.

Saying you lack the faith necessary is simply a statement of FACT-not a statement of "you are such a horrible person". If you state (which you did) you are not willing to give up your husband for him to go on a mission then you are by your very words stating you do not have faith (Temple Covenants!)

I really don't understand why any type of conversation with you (or Sarah) about men and women ends up being a battle? Are you trying to prove something? I really don't get it.

Why is it that holding you accountable to your own words which come from you is so hard? Why do you esteem me as an enemy instead of as a fellow Saint?

Some men and women simply state things in a way that is a bit irritating or frustrating to the other due to our different perspectives.

I never did say I would prevent my husband from serving a second mission - I wouldn’t believe I could do that anyways. I do not have perfect faith but I do have strong enough faith.

We’re not disagreeing, IMO. I think where people get into trouble with others is assuming something personal about them without enough understanding to do such. Or “putting words in their mouth” type of thing.

I do know I have some trouble conveying myself clearly to some because I seem to view things and think of things quite a bit differently than others, but I try.

[largerthanlife]

The church should spend its billions on advertising. We should have commercials on TV, radio, billboards and internet. Why are we hiding the truth and spending billions on church pensions?

[Thinker]

...Part of the reason why the religion is having such massive problems is specifically because as a people we are little children relying upon our parents for everything-we rely upon Salt Lake for everything from buildings, to policy, to telling us we can't bring weapons into our own congregations . ..b/c we are little children.

Until we as a people start learning to grow up and take responsibility for our own salvation and exaltation with God we won't ever be able to produce a true conversion...

How many talks do you hear in sacrament meetings which are simply a regurgitation from a General Conference talk? Waaaay too many.

I’m speechless. Seriously, that is so right on the money (all $124 Billion+ ), that I don’t know what else to say!

I see what you did there

Don’t underestimate the background ambient.
https://youtu.be/snpS8Qa42nc

[LukeAir2008]

We’ve known for a decade that we are going through the biggest period of apostasy since Kirtland. Huge numbers are leaving the Church.

It was Elder Marlin K Jensen, Church Historian, who let that one out of the bag. He was quickly removed from that assignment and released as a full time General Authority.

The Church has played it down and said the numbers are not significant. Let’s have a look shall we...

So the Church proudly announces at Conference in April 2019 that Church membership is 16,313,735. That number includes 102,102 new Children of Record and 234,332 Converts Baptized since the previous year.

Very impressive!

So let’s have a look at the statistical report from April 2018.

Church Membership 16,118,169

Wait a minute, 16,118,169 plus 102,102 plus 234,332 is 16,454,603.

Where did the other 140,868 Church members go?

[johnBob]

We’ve known for a decade that we are going through the biggest period of apostasy since Kirtland. Huge numbers are leaving the Church.

It was Elder Marlin K Jensen, Church Historian, who let that one out of the bag. He was quickly removed from that assignment and released as a full time General Authority.

The Church has played it down and said the numbers are not significant. Let’s have a look shall we...

So the Church proudly announces at Conference in April 2019 that Church membership is 16,313,735. That number includes 102,102 new Children of Record and 234,332 Converts Baptized since the previous year.

Very impressive!

So let’s have a look at the statistical report from April 2018.

Church Membership 16,118,169

Wait a minute, 16,118,169 plus 102,102 plus 234,332 is 16,454,603.

Where did the other 140,868 Church members go?

Dead.

[LukeAir2008]

We’ve known for a decade that we are going through the biggest period of apostasy since Kirtland. Huge numbers are leaving the Church.

It was Elder Marlin K Jensen, Church Historian, who let that one out of the bag. He was quickly removed from that assignment and released as a full time General Authority.

The Church has played it down and said the numbers are not significant. Let’s have a look shall we...

So the Church proudly announces at Conference in April 2019 that Church membership is 16,313,735. That number includes 102,102 new Children of Record and 234,332 Converts Baptized since the previous year.

Very impressive!

So let’s have a look at the statistical report from April 2018.

Church Membership 16,118,169

Wait a minute, 16,118,169 plus 102,102 plus 234,332 is 16,454,603.

Where did the other 140,868 Church members go?

Dead.

OK. Only if you accept that LDS people then must be the sickest, most unhealthy people on the planet.

And even at worse case scenario that still doesn’t account for over 20,000 people.

[Sunain]

Completely reformed. The current missionary program is run like a Fortune 500 company, too focused on numbers.

The church as a whole needs to start running like a church again and not a business. Too many businessmen and lawyers in leadership positions have taken its toll.

[BKColt]

The future:
Less meetinghouses, many more temples
Completely revamped missionary efforts
Initiation of prophetic construction in the 2 Jerusalems
Economic worldwide chaos humbles the world

[Daniel]

Here is a useful link that I have been checking with over the last several years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Churc ... ip_history

I don't know how to create a live link so you might have to copy and paste it into your browser. Bottom line is, church growth is definitely slowing, and has been slowing for the past 30 years. Look at the charts in the Wikipedia link provided, particularly that last two that gives the real numbers. I have verified the numbers myself from the annual statistical reports the church used to provide in the afternoon sessions of the April general conference of each year. Starting around 1990 is when the decline began. If the churches growth rate was the same now as it was on average through the 1980's we would presently be increasing by over 800,000 per year. Also if I remember right, child of record baptisms aren't a whole lot higher now than they were around 1980 when church membership was about a fourth of what it is now. I don't have the numbers to verify, but that is what I remember last time I looked.

I believe it is as others have said, the times of the gentiles is closing, or has closed. However, I believe ultimately that church membership will be several times more than what it is now before Christ comes, due to the tribulations that will come upon us and the world. The Lord will have a humble people. I feel we as a church in general have failed to humble ourselves sufficiently (yes I'm unrighteously judging the church collectively), so the Lord will soon compel us and the world to be humble, before he comes.