With church growth sputtering, does the Latter-day Saint missionary program need a tuneup or an overhaul?

[Alexander]

Salt lake tribune article on the missionary program

“After hearing from nearly 7,000 returned Latter-day Saint missionaries — with their reports of hasty baptisms, uncooperative members and cultural barriers — researcher Matt Martinich came to a strong conclusion: The church’s global proselytizing system needs “urgent reform.””


https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/04 ... ch-growth/

[Robin Hood]

Overhaul.

[johnBob]

Compete overhaul. Go back to the old days.

Start calling church fathers and church elders to preach the word instead of little children who have the title of Elder but are utter babes.

Start requiring some real sacrifice.

[PickleRick]

Not just the missionary program.

[MMbelieve]

Compete overhaul. Go back to the old days.

Start calling church fathers and church elders to preach the word instead of little children who have the title of Elder but are utter babes.

Start requiring some real sacrifice.

Every member deals with non members in their daily life. If members could be good examples and unashamed of the gospel then we have numerous contacts every day by most every person. Way more effective than the expense of traveling missionaries. Then those who are interested can receive the lessons and further assistance at the church house where there are those who are called to do such a thing. In areas there are no members then traveling there would still be needed.

We don’t need to send out married men who leave their wife and children, our world doesn’t work in a way to accommodate this without the wife needing to work and leave her children.

[johnBob]

Compete overhaul. Go back to the old days.

Start calling church fathers and church elders to preach the word instead of little children who have the title of Elder but are utter babes.

Start requiring some real sacrifice.

Every member deals with non members in their daily life. If members could be good examples and unashamed of the gospel then we have numerous contacts every day by most every person. Way more effective than the expense of traveling missionaries. Then those who are interested can receive the lessons and further assistance at the church house where there are those who are called to do such a thing. In areas there are no members then traveling there would still be needed.

We don’t need to send out married men who leave their wife and children, our world doesn’t work in a way to accommodate this without the wife needing to work and leave her children.

Wrong it did work when they sent the elders out in the 1800s without purse or script. And look at the results from then-real dedication.

Who provided for the women then?

The community of the church.

You'd just rather not give up your husband to the church. That's not terribly strong faith.

[johnBob]

Compete overhaul. Go back to the old days.

Start calling church fathers and church elders to preach the word instead of little children who have the title of Elder but are utter babes.

Start requiring some real sacrifice.

Every member deals with non members in their daily life. If members could be good examples and unashamed of the gospel then we have numerous contacts every day by most every person. Way more effective than the expense of traveling missionaries. Then those who are interested can receive the lessons and further assistance at the church house where there are those who are called to do such a thing. In areas there are no members then traveling there would still be needed.

We don’t need to send out married men who leave their wife and children, our world doesn’t work in a way to accommodate this without the wife needing to work and leave her children.

It's about there dedication. Religion is easy when you can just share here and there.

But real sacrifice- that will get people to notice. Hey what is it about this religion that a man would leave his family for 2 years to preach to strangers.... Man that's some dedication. What would compel someone to do something like that, they must really believe it deep in their core. Why???

[Thinker]

...Hey what is it about this religion...

That is the $1,000,000 question.

[mahalanobis]

Change the incentive structures of the mission presidents. Less drive for numbers and competition. Teach the mission presidents that they were not called because they're so amazing, but rather the Lord has blessed them so much up until this point that this service is required of them and it's a test. Stop running the mission like you ran your business when you were CEO.

Stop the 15-minute meetings with the members.

For every minute studying PMG, there should be 60 minutes studying the scriptures relevant to true conversion.

Stop being robotic. Stop the upspeak. Stop sharing videos to do the heavy lifting of lessons. Don't bear testimony of something unless you mean it. A testimony is 'your side of the story', so tell it like it is. Being over-excited and gitty all the time feels fake. Most normal people see that and think 'cult'.

The church missionary dept needs to drop the social media push. It feels like MLM branding. Keep it all face-to-face like the Savior did.

Obsessing over our image is ironically hurting our image. I'm sure at some point someone suggested an ad-campaign to make the church look less corporate (did they not hear themselves when they said that?).

I'm sorry if this is overly critical. I'd rather see it done properly with 1 true convert than slapdash mass-produced with 7-billion baptisms. Ultimately it's not my job, so I should just keep quiet.

[Thinker]

Missionary work ought to be humanitarian work, to truly be the Church of Jesus Christ. Christ’s greatest commandments and parable of the Good Samaritan didn’t mention anything about converting to a new religion, but rather helping those - even of a different religion - who are suffering.



Until then, ensure donations are handled right...
https://www.charitynavigator.org/

[PickleRick]

Interesting thread that has taken an interesting turn. I'd like to share a small incident that happened today that I at least feel applies.

Leaving Costco, I just finished putting my groceries in my truck. The lady parked next to me says "I can take your cart back with mine." It felt very ungallant of me not the chivalrous thing, and I felt awkward, but I thanked her and accepted her offer. She said that her ten-year old son had suggested it and that she really enjoyed offering to do small things like that.

If the majority of the members of the church would live their every-day lives even at this level, we would be a lot closer to Zion than I feel we are now. Just small thoughtful gestures, it doesn't have to be anything big.

That would make the missionary program almost irrelevant. Every member would indeed be a missionary. We used to be a peculiar people, and people saw how different we were from the world, that our family focus wasn't just lip service, that we truly had better, more enjoyable lives due to our faith.

And while there are still plenty of good folks in the church, the prophesied day has come that you can walk down the street of Salt Lake City and not be able to tell a member from a non-member.

[BringerOfJoy]

Salt lake tribune article on the missionary program

“After hearing from nearly 7,000 returned Latter-day Saint missionaries — with their reports of hasty baptisms, uncooperative members and cultural barriers — researcher Matt Martinich came to a strong conclusion: The church’s global proselytizing system needs “urgent reform.””


https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/04 ... ch-growth/

Here is some food for thought: Let's assume it is 1835. You are a Methodist. While your religion had a great deal of vigor during the years that Wesley was alive, it's lost a lot since then and is becoming much more regimented and rigid. The circuit riders aren't getting the response or the excitement they used to, and the preachers for the Primitive baptists, the Presbyterians, and those pesky Campbellites, and (god forbid) those followers of that guy with the "golden bible" are all competing in the church marketplace for the same souls, so to speak.

So, should you tune the system up, or should you completely overhaul it? Can "reformation" resolve your difficulties?

[The East Wind]

Missionary work ought to be humanitarian work, to truly be the Church of Jesus Christ. Christ’s greatest commandments and parable of the Good Samaritan didn’t mention anything about converting to a new religion, but rather helping those - even of a different religion - who are suffering.



Until then, ensure donations are handled right...
https://www.charitynavigator.org/

Are you suggesting that taking care of ones temporal needs is more important than ones spiritual needs? I don’t know of one person getting to heaven because of what food they ate and what clothing they wore? This is something all members should be doing no matter what ( clothing and feeding the poor). I see it being done more than sharing testimony and truly trying to get them to come unto the Savior.

[Spider]

I think part of the missionary program is to convert those young missionaries that serve, although I think 18 year olds who have never lived away from home are too young and immature.

[Alexander]

I think part of the missionary program is to convert those young missionaries that serve, although I think 18 year olds who have never lived away from home are too young and immature.

Originally, missionaries were the quorum of the twelve. They were asked to obtain their “endowment from on high” (baptism of fire and gift of Holy Ghost) before they left, so they could be converted themselves, and teach with power and authority.

[Robin Hood]

I think part of the missionary program is to convert those young missionaries that serve, although I think 18 year olds who have never lived away from home are too young and immature.

Originally, missionaries were the quorum of the twelve. They were asked to obtain their “endowment from on high” (baptism of fire and gift of Holy Ghost) before they left, so they could be converted themselves, and teach with power and authority.

And... what's your point?

[Mike Griffith]

"Church growth sputtering"? In 2018, there were 234,000 convert baptisms and 102,000 new children of record. In 2017, there were 233,000 convert baptisms and 106,000 new children of record. In 2016, there were 240,000 convert baptisms and 109,000 children of record. Many churches would love to have that kind of "sputtering" growth.

[Robin Hood]

"Church growth sputtering"? In 2018, there were 234,000 convert baptisms and 102,000 new children of record. In 2017, there were 233,000 convert baptisms and 106,000 new children of record. In 2016, there were 240,000 convert baptisms and 109,000 children of record. Many churches would love to have that kind of "sputtering" growth.

I think the point is that these convert baptism figures are broadly similar to 20 or 30 years ago... with a missionary force about a third of the current size.

[h_p]

"Church growth sputtering"? In 2018, there were 234,000 convert baptisms and 102,000 new children of record. In 2017, there were 233,000 convert baptisms and 106,000 new children of record. In 2016, there were 240,000 convert baptisms and 109,000 children of record. Many churches would love to have that kind of "sputtering" growth.

Sorry, but those are the lowest numbers we've seen in the church since 1987. And what's worse, for every 5 new members that came into the church in 2018, 2 existing members left. We don't even know if those children of record numbers are baptisms anymore, or just infant blessings. Unquestionably, our growth is sputtering.

[Mike Griffith]

"Church growth sputtering"? In 2018, there were 234,000 convert baptisms and 102,000 new children of record. In 2017, there were 233,000 convert baptisms and 106,000 new children of record. In 2016, there were 240,000 convert baptisms and 109,000 children of record. Many churches would love to have that kind of "sputtering" growth.

I think the point is that these convert baptism figures are broadly similar to 20 or 30 years ago... with a missionary force about a third of the current size.

In 2002, there were 61,638 full-time missionaries and 283,000 convert baptisms. In 2017, there were 67,049 full-time missionaries and 233,000 convert baptisms. Not an enormous difference. At least part of the difference can be explained in the fact that areas where we had been having success, such as parts of Africa, have become politically unstable in recent years. In Russia, where we were seeing steady growth, the government banned proselyting outside of churches in 2016. Another factor is the moral decline that has occurred in most parts of the world over the last 20 years.

200K+ converts per year for the last 20 years is not what I would call "sputtering" growth. If anything, given world conditions over the last several years, it's rather impressive that we've still been converting over 200,000 people per year.

[nightlight]

Church growth in America? Anyone know those numbers?

[Bronco73idi]

"Church growth sputtering"? In 2018, there were 234,000 convert baptisms and 102,000 new children of record. In 2017, there were 233,000 convert baptisms and 106,000 new children of record. In 2016, there were 240,000 convert baptisms and 109,000 children of record. Many churches would love to have that kind of "sputtering" growth.

I think the point is that these convert baptism figures are broadly similar to 20 or 30 years ago... with a missionary force about a third of the current size.

In 2002, there were 61,638 full-time missionaries and 283,000 convert baptisms. In 2017, there were 67,049 full-time missionaries and 233,000 convert baptisms. Not an enormous difference. At least part of the difference can be explained in the fact that areas where we had been having success, such as parts of Africa, have become politically unstable in recent years. In Russia, where we were seeing steady growth, the government banned proselyting outside of churches in 2016. Another factor is the moral decline that has occurred in most parts of the world over the last 20 years.

200K+ converts per year for the last 20 years is not what I would call "sputtering" growth. If anything, given world conditions over the last several years, it's rather impressive that we've still been converting over 200,000 people per year.

Thank you for the real facts.

So many people look at the bad in order to justify their lack of action....

[nightlight]

The church's reported membership as of December 31, 2018 was 16,313,735. The growth of 1.37% in 2017 was the lowest annual percentage growth since the 0.93% in 1937, and growth of the 1.21% in 2018 was even lower.

[nightlight]

The growth rate in the United States has declined to .75%, down from .93% in 2016. The U.S. growth rate is therefore half of the already modest overall growth rate around the world, a downward trajectory Martinich calls “pretty significant.” U.S. growth has not been this low “in approximately 100 years or longer,” he says. (For U.S. growth patterns since 1920, see the Cumorah website.)

[cab]

Salt lake tribune article on the missionary program

“After hearing from nearly 7,000 returned Latter-day Saint missionaries — with their reports of hasty baptisms, uncooperative members and cultural barriers — researcher Matt Martinich came to a strong conclusion: The church’s global proselytizing system needs “urgent reform.””


https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/04 ... ch-growth/

Let's begin by sending them without purse nor script. Let's tell them they may not adhere to pre-prepared lessons but rely completely on the spirit. As lilies of the field... Tell them they may teach nothing but faith on the Lord and repentence. Then let's direct all levels of the Church to live by this same standard, up through all General Authorities, including no more stipends and teleprompter speeches....

Then when this all fails miserably and we realize how exposed we are, and it's evident how bereft from the Spirit we've actually become, then we can be the long road back towards full submission and full reliance on the Lord, and the Lord alone... Then, once we've had our hearts broken and are spirits are more contrite, then maybe we'll begin to receive the Gift and power of the Holy Ghost as a people like in Acts 2, Mosiah 4-5, Alma 19-20, Helaman 5-6, 3 Nephi 19-20, and elsewhere...