LDS Freedom Forum

Mahalanobis Distance wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 1:47 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:37 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

We do have authority over women. What we shouldn't do, like the MP in the OP....is exercise unrightuous dominion over women.

We can't measure women by measure of what a man is to be.

It's like a women using the fact she birth a child to say she knows how to be a better parent.

Just cuz a man has the priesthood.....it doesn't mean he knows God more than a woman.

Did Peter know Jesus more fully than Mary...lol who knows, it depends on their individual intelligence.

My grandmother was smarter than the lot of you

I think you make good points here. Having more authority than another person isn't the end-all be-all. Knowing God and communing with Him, glorifying Him, keeping the commandments etc. are far more important. Jesus even rebuked his apostles when they were arguing about seniority. "The greatest among you shall be your servant".

One might have more authority, but by Jesus' definition that means a charge to serve and be lesser. Do feminists really, truly want that?

As mortals, there are two ways we screw this up. 1) We run into a problem when one abandons Jesus' instruction to serve and instead has unrighteous dominion. 2) We ALSO run into a problem when the world (great and spacious building) convinces us that authority is the most important thing and that if you don't have it that means you're oppressed and should demand equality (specifically equal authority). In both cases, the words of our Lord are being abandoned and forgotten IMO.

nightlight wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:37 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

We do have authority over women. What we shouldn't do, like the MP in the OP....is exercise unrightuous dominion over women.

We can't measure women by measure of what a man is to be.

It's like a women using the fact she birth a child to say she knows how to be a better parent.

Just cuz a man has the priesthood.....it doesn't mean he knows God more than a woman.

Did Peter know Jesus more fully than Mary...lol who knows, it depends on their individual intelligence.

My grandmother was smarter than the lot of you

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 3:48 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:37 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

We do have authority over women. What we shouldn't do, like the MP in the OP....is exercise unrightuous dominion over women.

We can't measure women by measure of what a man is to be.

It's like a women using the fact she birth a child to say she knows how to be a better parent.

Just cuz a man has the priesthood.....it doesn't mean he knows God more than a woman.

Did Peter know Jesus more fully than Mary...lol who knows, it depends on their individual intelligence.

My grandmother was smarter than the lot of you

Is 1 Corinthians 11 the support to the claim that men have authority over women? Is there others?

nightlight wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 4:04 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 3:48 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:37 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

We do have authority over women. What we shouldn't do, like the MP in the OP....is exercise unrightuous dominion over women.

We can't measure women by measure of what a man is to be.

It's like a women using the fact she birth a child to say she knows how to be a better parent.

Just cuz a man has the priesthood.....it doesn't mean he knows God more than a woman.

Did Peter know Jesus more fully than Mary...lol who knows, it depends on their individual intelligence.

My grandmother was smarter than the lot of you

Is 1 Corinthians 11 the support to the claim that men have authority over women? Is there others?

I only mean within the confines of the Church. If you look at D&C it outlines the role of deacon/teacher/priest etc. Its not really even authority over women...it's authority over affairs of the Church...which women are apart of.


This will change once we began to enter the terrestrial earth imo

23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:09 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

There is not one bit of truth in the above post.^ I hope nobody actually reads it and comes away thinking this I'd actual doctrine. Basically you called God sexist, because He has only allowed males to hold His priesthood. By that token, I guess Mother in Heaven is sexist against men because we dont get the choice to carry children inside of us. Maybe we would like to do that? There are a lot of guys that want to be women. Maybe this is Her fault?!

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:09 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

There is not one bit of truth in the above post.^ I hope nobody actually reads it and comes away thinking this I'd actual doctrine. Basically you called God sexist, because He has only allowed males to hold His priesthood. By that token, I guess Mother in Heaven is sexist against men because we dont get the choice to carry children inside of us. Maybe we would like to do that? There are a lot of guys that want to be women. Maybe this is Her fault?!