LDS Freedom Forum

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 11:17 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:43 am

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:36 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:30 am

With faith that poor, yeah, it doesnt surprise me you havent witnessed any healing miracles.

My friend was born blind.....may I bring him to you?

Why? Are the sisters who have preisthood power too busy lately?

Sorry, in all seriousness, something like that is not something we should joke about.

I am lacking in bringing forth the power of Kingdom. Im still a babe in Christ.

I'm just sayin.... I'd have the same luck bringing my blind friend to some random lady ....as I would bringing him to you. Why is that?

Why do our High Priest send the possessed to psychiatrist?
Why do our high priest send the cancer ridden get chemo therapy?

What... is this the new thing of God to give a man chemotherapy mixed with a dose of priesthood blessing?

I Guarantee we're the first Saints to give crippled children Wheelchairs and call it a miracle!!!

our church weaves trusting in the arm of Flesh and the power of God.....the result is a bunch of clowns running around yelling about their "authority"


14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
------------

1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

The Ministry of the Twelve

(Mark 6:7-13; Luke 9:1-6)

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat--

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:16 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 4:28 am

Stahura wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:30 am This whole conversation shows everything that’s wrong with the church today.

What good is this deacons authority and power if even the “greatest” among us don’t work mighty works?

I promise there are women who do work and will work mightier works than this 12 year old deacon , and even more than this sad Mission President. If flaunting your power and authority makes you feel better, go for it.

All of this again just shows how little we value and focus on the doctrine of Christ, how little we understand grace, and faith, and the Spirit. We emphasize our actions, our ordinances, our own authority and power. It gets us nowhere, and the lack of spiritual manifestations is proof of it.

Look at the scriptures. They worked mighty works, saved souls and lives because of faith. They didn’t brag and argue over ordinations and priesthood power. They exercised faith and sacrificed what was required. Do what they did. We have nothing to be proud of, nothing worth flaunting. This conversation is silly .

You can have your authority and power and hang it over women’s heads. As for me, Ill take my ordination at the hands of man, and continue onward patiently seeking the things I know the Lord expects and wants from me. I can tell you this much, the path is a lot more difficult than being born Mormon and having your papi ordain you at 12 years old.

I won’t be responding to the inevitable vitriol, but have at it. Just speaking my mind and dipping.

Oh here we go again... it shows nothing of the sort.

Yes it does....it's show our church teaches people to be clowns.
Hence all this authority talk from people who can't heal a paper cut.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 8:38 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 8:30 pm

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

God bless that Mission president for telling her the truth. I agree, maybe he should not have said it in public like that, but it remains true.

And no, endowments do not equal priesthood. So please do not make silly claims like that. Priesthood comes by ordination only.

Women receive priesthood in the temple endowment. Priesthood OFFICES come by ordination, but priesthood POWER comes from God alone. Priesthood power is the power to know what God wants you to do, and then to do it. Ordination to a priesthood office is not the same.

President Nelson recently tried to teach this to the women of the church.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 1:36 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 11:17 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:43 am

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:36 am

My friend was born blind.....may I bring him to you?

Why? Are the sisters who have preisthood power too busy lately?

Sorry, in all seriousness, something like that is not something we should joke about.

I am lacking in bringing forth the power of Kingdom. Im still a babe in Christ.

I'm just sayin.... I'd have the same luck bringing my blind friend to some random lady ....as I would bringing him to you. Why is that?

Why do our High Priest send the possessed to psychiatrist?
Why do our high priest send the cancer ridden get chemo therapy?

What... is this the new thing of God to give a man chemotherapy mixed with a dose of priesthood blessing?

I Guarantee we're the first Saints to give crippled children Wheelchairs and call it a miracle!!!

our church weaves trusting in the arm of Flesh and the power of God.....the result is a bunch of clowns running around yelling about their "authority"


14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
------------

1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

The Ministry of the Twelve

(Mark 6:7-13; Luke 9:1-6)

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat--

A great question and one that is nuanced in it's answers, yes, there are more than one answer to this question.

First, I think it appropriate to point out that the scriptures only talk about specific instances where these healings/miracles happened. Although amazing and beyond belief how miraculous these events were, as they were sacred, I don't at all think this was the "norm". There were still plenty of blind, deaf, and mute people during Christ's ministry. There were plenty of people still suffering from the palsy and other ailments that we are familiar with. I think these miracles were the exception and not the rule, by merely looking at the logistics of how big an area, how relatively short the Savior's mission was,etc.... I think the Savior labored intently to heal who he could, but it was impossible to heal everybody. If we look at their mode of conveyance and all the problems associated with travel, it is a safe bet that there were plenty of sick that were never ministered to. I bring this up because people often lament that the "miracles aren't on the Earth anymore" but I don't think it was much different back then. I'm sure there were plenty of people still looking at the blind guy down the street and how he wasn't healed by anybody either.

Now the next thing to remember is that oftentimes, these afflictions are trials that our Lord set before us to overcome in our life. No different than if somebody loses a job, home, loved one, health, etc.... The Lord will allow us to be tried by all manner of things to refine us, like a smith refining ore in a fire. We may not like it, but it is necessary for us to overcome these trials in life to enjoy the bliss that the next life has to offer. As difficult as it maybe to understand, traumatic events beyond our Earthly control happen to us by design because God has a plan for us. Job, Joseph Smith, Moses, Christ, and others all suffered in this life, despite their faithfulness to make them into what our Father wanted them to be. It will be no different for us. No matter how much faith we might have, sometimes these afflictions are ours to face and confront with faith that no matter what, our Lord will help us see it through, even if it ends in our deaths.

Another curious thing that stands out in these miracles when they did happen, is that it was preceded by the faith, and often repentance, of the one seeking the healing. Is it really entirely on the faith of the priesthood holder to make the miracle happen, or is the person seeking the blessing chiefly responsible for having the faith to be healed? I'll give some examples to reflect on:

The woman with the issue of blood: She touched the Savior's garment without Him knowing about it. Christ didn't exercise any faith in this event, as He wasn't the one initiating it. He was merely walking through. The woman obviously was healed, but Christ tells her that it was her faith that healed her.

The Centurion: Again, Christ never even laid eyes on this dying boy, but the Centurian's faith was what made the healing possible, according to Christ.

"They faith, has made thee whole" is oft repeated by Christ and needs to be remembered when we are wondering why we don't see the genuine miracles we read about.

Is it fair to place the blame on "unworthy/faithless priesthood holders" who don't even have the power to heal a paper cut, when we ourselves are often the ones lacking the true faith to receive this blessing? I think blaming the priesthood holder is putting the cart before the horse. Think of it this way, would it have been Christ's fault if the woman hadn't have received the miracle of her illness being healed if her faith was insufficient to do so?

I think we as humans tend to find fault and place blame where it doesn't belong. If we are not feeling the influence of the spirit in our daily lives, is that the Church's fault or our own? If we aren't witnessing miracles in our lives, is that because the church is fallen and priesthood dried up, or is it because we don't have eyes to see and ears to hear the miracles that are indeed happening around us. Take for instance all the wonderful advancements that have happened in our own lifetime with regards to medicine, vaccines, food production, pest prevention,etc.... We have reached a point in our existence here on this Earth, that we can sustain larger human populations because we can grow food year round, we have devised ways to combat several childhood diseases that decimated past peoples. We have the ability to diagnose and treat mental illnesses and cancers that were death sentences in the past. All of these miracles have happened, I'm sure, through the good grace and mercy of our Lord. If you read some about some of the "coincidences" that accompanied many of these discoveries or dreams that these scientists had to reveal to them how to solve the riddle or puzzle that was keeping them from exploring these further, it is evident that this has been nothing short of providence and the Lord's guiding hand to help all of humanity. In light of these advancements, I think we need to remember that the Lord will seldom come down and do for us what we could do for ourselves. We can pray for a Temple to be built, but the Lord will not send an army of Angels to build it for us. We need to put forth the work, the effort, the sacrifice to make this a reality. The same often holds true for our own illnesses and maladies. The Lord has blessed us with advancements in science and medicines the likes that all of our brothers and sisters in past dispensations did not have access to. Perhaps the blessings and miracles they recieved when they are on deaths door or are mentally deranged are our modern day equivalent of taking an aspirin or a valium? Maybe the voices in one's head in yesteryear is our day's tumor in the brain that needs to get operated on? Again, the Lord will seldom do for us what we have the ability to do for ourselves. To put it in another way, I cannot put the feeding, clothing, and shelter needs of my wife and children solely in the hands of the Lord, when He has blessed me with the ability to work for their sustenance and given instruction that they have claim on me to provide for them. So me simply praying for this to happen isn't going to do the trick, no matter how much I might wish that He would just drop all of our physical needs in our laps.

I distinctly remember a story I was told by a faithful member of the church who fell on hard times. He had lost his job and was barely making ends meet. He was trying to save his money for other needs when one day he got sick and had a very bad ear infection. He figured he could just "pray it away". When the ear infection persisted and did not go away, he sought out a priesthood blessing. In the blessing they promised him "quick recovery" if he would go to the doctor to have it looked at. He didn't like that, but instead focused on the "quick recovery" he was promised. A week later, the pain was worse and he sought another blessing from another brother. He again, was promised "quick recovery" if we would just go to the doctor and have it looked at. He again, thought his faith would be sufficient to make his "quick recovery" a reality. 3 days later, the pain was unbearable and he asked for yet another blessing. This blessing was different in that he was reproached by the brother and chastised him for his reluctance to obey the word of the Lord. The brother at this point relented and finally went to the doctor. He had a really bad ear infection that needed antibiotics to clear up. He noticed an immediate relief to his pain both thru the ear drops he received but also the clearing up of the infection he had tolerated for so many days. His pain gone completely within 2 or 3 days. He closed that story with a takeaway, that I am sharing now. The priesthood blessing was fulfilled. It did promise "quick recovery" based on obedience to the commands that he had been given.

Finally, I would like to share with you that there are indeed miracles on the Earth today. I have seen them, and I have had the privilege to perform them. The priesthood is real and yes, the Lord can and does still work through His servants here on the Earth, despite our imperfections, frailties, vanities, and lack of faith. Priesthood holders are no more righteous than our good sisters, and we know that. However, the Lord, through His mercies, still works with imperfect people to bring His work forward. That is one of the best messages of the gospel, is that despite our imperfections, our Lord still has use for us, even the weakest of us. I have personally seen too many miracles to ever deny that the Lord still works His miracles even in our day.

I'm not sure if this helps any, but it's how I've reconciled some of the questions I used to have about miracles in old times, versus those we see (or don't see) in today's world.

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 2:20 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 1:36 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 11:17 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:43 am

Why? Are the sisters who have preisthood power too busy lately?

Sorry, in all seriousness, something like that is not something we should joke about.

I am lacking in bringing forth the power of Kingdom. Im still a babe in Christ.

I'm just sayin.... I'd have the same luck bringing my blind friend to some random lady ....as I would bringing him to you. Why is that?

Why do our High Priest send the possessed to psychiatrist?
Why do our high priest send the cancer ridden get chemo therapy?

What... is this the new thing of God to give a man chemotherapy mixed with a dose of priesthood blessing?

I Guarantee we're the first Saints to give crippled children Wheelchairs and call it a miracle!!!

our church weaves trusting in the arm of Flesh and the power of God.....the result is a bunch of clowns running around yelling about their "authority"


14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
------------

1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

The Ministry of the Twelve

(Mark 6:7-13; Luke 9:1-6)

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat--

A great question and one that is nuanced in it's answers, yes, there are more than one answer to this question.

First, I think it appropriate to point out that the scriptures only talk about specific instances where these healings/miracles happened. Although amazing and beyond belief how miraculous these events were, as they were sacred, I don't at all think this was the "norm". There were still plenty of blind, deaf, and mute people during Christ's ministry. There were plenty of people still suffering from the palsy and other ailments that we are familiar with. I think these miracles were the exception and not the rule, by merely looking at the logistics of how big an area, how relatively short the Savior's mission was,etc.... I think the Savior labored intently to heal who he could, but it was impossible to heal everybody. If we look at their mode of conveyance and all the problems associated with travel, it is a safe bet that there were plenty of sick that were never ministered to. I bring this up because people often lament that the "miracles aren't on the Earth anymore" but I don't think it was much different back then. I'm sure there were plenty of people still looking at the blind guy down the street and how he wasn't healed by anybody either.

Now the next thing to remember is that oftentimes, these afflictions are trials that our Lord set before us to overcome in our life. No different than if somebody loses a job, home, loved one, health, etc.... The Lord will allow us to be tried by all manner of things to refine us, like a smith refining ore in a fire. We may not like it, but it is necessary for us to overcome these trials in life to enjoy the bliss that the next life has to offer. As difficult as it maybe to understand, traumatic events beyond our Earthly control happen to us by design because God has a plan for us. Job, Joseph Smith, Moses, Christ, and others all suffered in this life, despite their faithfulness to make them into what our Father wanted them to be. It will be no different for us. No matter how much faith we might have, sometimes these afflictions are ours to face and confront with faith that no matter what, our Lord will help us see it through, even if it ends in our deaths.

Another curious thing that stands out in these miracles when they did happen, is that it was preceded by the faith, and often repentance, of the one seeking the healing. Is it really entirely on the faith of the priesthood holder to make the miracle happen, or is the person seeking the blessing chiefly responsible for having the faith to be healed? I'll give some examples to reflect on:

The woman with the issue of blood: She touched the Savior's garment without Him knowing about it. Christ didn't exercise any faith in this event, as He wasn't the one initiating it. He was merely walking through. The woman obviously was healed, but Christ tells her that it was her faith that healed her.

The Centurion: Again, Christ never even laid eyes on this dying boy, but the Centurian's faith was what made the healing possible, according to Christ.

"They faith, has made thee whole" is oft repeated by Christ and needs to be remembered when we are wondering why we don't see the genuine miracles we read about.

Is it fair to place the blame on "unworthy/faithless priesthood holders" who don't even have the power to heal a paper cut, when we ourselves are often the ones lacking the true faith to receive this blessing? I think blaming the priesthood holder is putting the cart before the horse. Think of it this way, would it have been Christ's fault if the woman hadn't have received the miracle of her illness being healed if her faith was insufficient to do so?

I think we as humans tend to find fault and place blame where it doesn't belong. If we are not feeling the influence of the spirit in our daily lives, is that the Church's fault or our own? If we aren't witnessing miracles in our lives, is that because the church is fallen and priesthood dried up, or is it because we don't have eyes to see and ears to hear the miracles that are indeed happening around us. Take for instance all the wonderful advancements that have happened in our own lifetime with regards to medicine, vaccines, food production, pest prevention,etc.... We have reached a point in our existence here on this Earth, that we can sustain larger human populations because we can grow food year round, we have devised ways to combat several childhood diseases that decimated past peoples. We have the ability to diagnose and treat mental illnesses and cancers that were death sentences in the past. All of these miracles have happened, I'm sure, through the good grace and mercy of our Lord. If you read some about some of the "coincidences" that accompanied many of these discoveries or dreams that these scientists had to reveal to them how to solve the riddle or puzzle that was keeping them from exploring these further, it is evident that this has been nothing short of providence and the Lord's guiding hand to help all of humanity. In light of these advancements, I think we need to remember that the Lord will seldom come down and do for us what we could do for ourselves. We can pray for a Temple to be built, but the Lord will not send an army of Angels to build it for us. We need to put forth the work, the effort, the sacrifice to make this a reality. The same often holds true for our own illnesses and maladies. The Lord has blessed us with advancements in science and medicines the likes that all of our brothers and sisters in past dispensations did not have access to. Perhaps the blessings and miracles they recieved when they are on deaths door or are mentally deranged are our modern day equivalent of taking an aspirin or a valium? Maybe the voices in one's head in yesteryear is our day's tumor in the brain that needs to get operated on? Again, the Lord will seldom do for us what we have the ability to do for ourselves. To put it in another way, I cannot put the feeding, clothing, and shelter needs of my wife and children solely in the hands of the Lord, when He has blessed me with the ability to work for their sustenance and given instruction that they have claim on me to provide for them. So me simply praying for this to happen isn't going to do the trick, no matter how much I might wish that He would just drop all of our physical needs in our laps.

I distinctly remember a story I was told by a faithful member of the church who fell on hard times. He had lost his job and was barely making ends meet. He was trying to save his money for other needs when one day he got sick and had a very bad ear infection. He figured he could just "pray it away". When the ear infection persisted and did not go away, he sought out a priesthood blessing. In the blessing they promised him "quick recovery" if he would go to the doctor to have it looked at. He didn't like that, but instead focused on the "quick recovery" he was promised. A week later, the pain was worse and he sought another blessing from another brother. He again, was promised "quick recovery" if we would just go to the doctor and have it looked at. He again, thought his faith would be sufficient to make his "quick recovery" a reality. 3 days later, the pain was unbearable and he asked for yet another blessing. This blessing was different in that he was reproached by the brother and chastised him for his reluctance to obey the word of the Lord. The brother at this point relented and finally went to the doctor. He had a really bad ear infection that needed antibiotics to clear up. He noticed an immediate relief to his pain both thru the ear drops he received but also the clearing up of the infection he had tolerated for so many days. His pain gone completely within 2 or 3 days. He closed that story with a takeaway, that I am sharing now. The priesthood blessing was fulfilled. It did promise "quick recovery" based on obedience to the commands that he had been given.

Finally, I would like to share with you that there are indeed miracles on the Earth today. I have seen them, and I have had the privilege to perform them. The priesthood is real and yes, the Lord can and does still work through His servants here on the Earth, despite our imperfections, frailties, vanities, and lack of faith. Priesthood holders are no more righteous than our good sisters, and we know that. However, the Lord, through His mercies, still works with imperfect people to bring His work forward. That is one of the best messages of the gospel, is that despite our imperfections, our Lord still has use for us, even the weakest of us. I have personally seen too many miracles to ever deny that the Lord still works His miracles even in our day.

I'm not sure if this helps any, but it's how I've reconciled some of the questions I used to have about miracles in old times, versus those we see (or don't see) in today's world.

12And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. 13And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. 14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) 15Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. 16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one
---------------

This is our standard ^^^^ we need to accept where we are so we can get to where we can be.

I will put blame on the leaders....they don't speak of casting out evil spirits.....it's part of their job to teach us these things. They point their sheep to doctors.

There is a HUGE discrepancy between us and ALL other saints.

If they actively taught to heal all manor of desises, casting out of demons etc.....you'd have a point.




Bible > KJV > Acts 3
◄ Acts 3 ►
King James Bible Par ▾
Healing the Lame Beggar

1Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength. 8And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9And all the people saw him walking and praising God: 10And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
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Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 8:30 pm

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

God bless that Mission president for telling her the truth. I agree, maybe he should not have said it in public like that, but it remains true.

And no, endowments do not equal priesthood. So please do not make silly claims like that. Priesthood comes by ordination only.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 2:25 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 2:20 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 1:36 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 11:17 am

I am lacking in bringing forth the power of Kingdom. Im still a babe in Christ.

I'm just sayin.... I'd have the same luck bringing my blind friend to some random lady ....as I would bringing him to you. Why is that?

Why do our High Priest send the possessed to psychiatrist?
Why do our high priest send the cancer ridden get chemo therapy?

What... is this the new thing of God to give a man chemotherapy mixed with a dose of priesthood blessing?

I Guarantee we're the first Saints to give crippled children Wheelchairs and call it a miracle!!!

our church weaves trusting in the arm of Flesh and the power of God.....the result is a bunch of clowns running around yelling about their "authority"


14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
------------

1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

The Ministry of the Twelve

(Mark 6:7-13; Luke 9:1-6)

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat--

A great question and one that is nuanced in it's answers, yes, there are more than one answer to this question.

First, I think it appropriate to point out that the scriptures only talk about specific instances where these healings/miracles happened. Although amazing and beyond belief how miraculous these events were, as they were sacred, I don't at all think this was the "norm". There were still plenty of blind, deaf, and mute people during Christ's ministry. There were plenty of people still suffering from the palsy and other ailments that we are familiar with. I think these miracles were the exception and not the rule, by merely looking at the logistics of how big an area, how relatively short the Savior's mission was,etc.... I think the Savior labored intently to heal who he could, but it was impossible to heal everybody. If we look at their mode of conveyance and all the problems associated with travel, it is a safe bet that there were plenty of sick that were never ministered to. I bring this up because people often lament that the "miracles aren't on the Earth anymore" but I don't think it was much different back then. I'm sure there were plenty of people still looking at the blind guy down the street and how he wasn't healed by anybody either.

Now the next thing to remember is that oftentimes, these afflictions are trials that our Lord set before us to overcome in our life. No different than if somebody loses a job, home, loved one, health, etc.... The Lord will allow us to be tried by all manner of things to refine us, like a smith refining ore in a fire. We may not like it, but it is necessary for us to overcome these trials in life to enjoy the bliss that the next life has to offer. As difficult as it maybe to understand, traumatic events beyond our Earthly control happen to us by design because God has a plan for us. Job, Joseph Smith, Moses, Christ, and others all suffered in this life, despite their faithfulness to make them into what our Father wanted them to be. It will be no different for us. No matter how much faith we might have, sometimes these afflictions are ours to face and confront with faith that no matter what, our Lord will help us see it through, even if it ends in our deaths.

Another curious thing that stands out in these miracles when they did happen, is that it was preceded by the faith, and often repentance, of the one seeking the healing. Is it really entirely on the faith of the priesthood holder to make the miracle happen, or is the person seeking the blessing chiefly responsible for having the faith to be healed? I'll give some examples to reflect on:

The woman with the issue of blood: She touched the Savior's garment without Him knowing about it. Christ didn't exercise any faith in this event, as He wasn't the one initiating it. He was merely walking through. The woman obviously was healed, but Christ tells her that it was her faith that healed her.

The Centurion: Again, Christ never even laid eyes on this dying boy, but the Centurian's faith was what made the healing possible, according to Christ.

"They faith, has made thee whole" is oft repeated by Christ and needs to be remembered when we are wondering why we don't see the genuine miracles we read about.

Is it fair to place the blame on "unworthy/faithless priesthood holders" who don't even have the power to heal a paper cut, when we ourselves are often the ones lacking the true faith to receive this blessing? I think blaming the priesthood holder is putting the cart before the horse. Think of it this way, would it have been Christ's fault if the woman hadn't have received the miracle of her illness being healed if her faith was insufficient to do so?

I think we as humans tend to find fault and place blame where it doesn't belong. If we are not feeling the influence of the spirit in our daily lives, is that the Church's fault or our own? If we aren't witnessing miracles in our lives, is that because the church is fallen and priesthood dried up, or is it because we don't have eyes to see and ears to hear the miracles that are indeed happening around us. Take for instance all the wonderful advancements that have happened in our own lifetime with regards to medicine, vaccines, food production, pest prevention,etc.... We have reached a point in our existence here on this Earth, that we can sustain larger human populations because we can grow food year round, we have devised ways to combat several childhood diseases that decimated past peoples. We have the ability to diagnose and treat mental illnesses and cancers that were death sentences in the past. All of these miracles have happened, I'm sure, through the good grace and mercy of our Lord. If you read some about some of the "coincidences" that accompanied many of these discoveries or dreams that these scientists had to reveal to them how to solve the riddle or puzzle that was keeping them from exploring these further, it is evident that this has been nothing short of providence and the Lord's guiding hand to help all of humanity. In light of these advancements, I think we need to remember that the Lord will seldom come down and do for us what we could do for ourselves. We can pray for a Temple to be built, but the Lord will not send an army of Angels to build it for us. We need to put forth the work, the effort, the sacrifice to make this a reality. The same often holds true for our own illnesses and maladies. The Lord has blessed us with advancements in science and medicines the likes that all of our brothers and sisters in past dispensations did not have access to. Perhaps the blessings and miracles they recieved when they are on deaths door or are mentally deranged are our modern day equivalent of taking an aspirin or a valium? Maybe the voices in one's head in yesteryear is our day's tumor in the brain that needs to get operated on? Again, the Lord will seldom do for us what we have the ability to do for ourselves. To put it in another way, I cannot put the feeding, clothing, and shelter needs of my wife and children solely in the hands of the Lord, when He has blessed me with the ability to work for their sustenance and given instruction that they have claim on me to provide for them. So me simply praying for this to happen isn't going to do the trick, no matter how much I might wish that He would just drop all of our physical needs in our laps.

I distinctly remember a story I was told by a faithful member of the church who fell on hard times. He had lost his job and was barely making ends meet. He was trying to save his money for other needs when one day he got sick and had a very bad ear infection. He figured he could just "pray it away". When the ear infection persisted and did not go away, he sought out a priesthood blessing. In the blessing they promised him "quick recovery" if he would go to the doctor to have it looked at. He didn't like that, but instead focused on the "quick recovery" he was promised. A week later, the pain was worse and he sought another blessing from another brother. He again, was promised "quick recovery" if we would just go to the doctor and have it looked at. He again, thought his faith would be sufficient to make his "quick recovery" a reality. 3 days later, the pain was unbearable and he asked for yet another blessing. This blessing was different in that he was reproached by the brother and chastised him for his reluctance to obey the word of the Lord. The brother at this point relented and finally went to the doctor. He had a really bad ear infection that needed antibiotics to clear up. He noticed an immediate relief to his pain both thru the ear drops he received but also the clearing up of the infection he had tolerated for so many days. His pain gone completely within 2 or 3 days. He closed that story with a takeaway, that I am sharing now. The priesthood blessing was fulfilled. It did promise "quick recovery" based on obedience to the commands that he had been given.

Finally, I would like to share with you that there are indeed miracles on the Earth today. I have seen them, and I have had the privilege to perform them. The priesthood is real and yes, the Lord can and does still work through His servants here on the Earth, despite our imperfections, frailties, vanities, and lack of faith. Priesthood holders are no more righteous than our good sisters, and we know that. However, the Lord, through His mercies, still works with imperfect people to bring His work forward. That is one of the best messages of the gospel, is that despite our imperfections, our Lord still has use for us, even the weakest of us. I have personally seen too many miracles to ever deny that the Lord still works His miracles even in our day.

I'm not sure if this helps any, but it's how I've reconciled some of the questions I used to have about miracles in old times, versus those we see (or don't see) in today's world.

12And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. 13And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. 14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) 15Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. 16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one
---------------

This is our standard ^^^^ we need to accept where we are so we can get to where we can be.

I will put blame on the leaders....they don't speak of casting out evil spirits.....it's part of their job to teach us these things. They point their sheep to doctors.

There is a HUGE discrepancy between us and ALL other saints.

If they actively taught to heal all manor of desises, casting out of demons etc.....you'd have a point.




Bible > KJV > Acts 3
◄ Acts 3 ►
King James Bible Par ▾
Healing the Lame Beggar

1Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength. 8And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9And all the people saw him walking and praising God: 10And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
----------

That’s not the job of the leaders. The job of the leaders is to point us to Christ, so the Lord can teach us all things. If we are relying too much on the leaders, our minds will be darkened (Just as Joseph Smith said)

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 2:49 pm

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 2:25 pm

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 2:20 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 1:36 pm

A great question and one that is nuanced in it's answers, yes, there are more than one answer to this question.

First, I think it appropriate to point out that the scriptures only talk about specific instances where these healings/miracles happened. Although amazing and beyond belief how miraculous these events were, as they were sacred, I don't at all think this was the "norm". There were still plenty of blind, deaf, and mute people during Christ's ministry. There were plenty of people still suffering from the palsy and other ailments that we are familiar with. I think these miracles were the exception and not the rule, by merely looking at the logistics of how big an area, how relatively short the Savior's mission was,etc.... I think the Savior labored intently to heal who he could, but it was impossible to heal everybody. If we look at their mode of conveyance and all the problems associated with travel, it is a safe bet that there were plenty of sick that were never ministered to. I bring this up because people often lament that the "miracles aren't on the Earth anymore" but I don't think it was much different back then. I'm sure there were plenty of people still looking at the blind guy down the street and how he wasn't healed by anybody either.

Now the next thing to remember is that oftentimes, these afflictions are trials that our Lord set before us to overcome in our life. No different than if somebody loses a job, home, loved one, health, etc.... The Lord will allow us to be tried by all manner of things to refine us, like a smith refining ore in a fire. We may not like it, but it is necessary for us to overcome these trials in life to enjoy the bliss that the next life has to offer. As difficult as it maybe to understand, traumatic events beyond our Earthly control happen to us by design because God has a plan for us. Job, Joseph Smith, Moses, Christ, and others all suffered in this life, despite their faithfulness to make them into what our Father wanted them to be. It will be no different for us. No matter how much faith we might have, sometimes these afflictions are ours to face and confront with faith that no matter what, our Lord will help us see it through, even if it ends in our deaths.

Another curious thing that stands out in these miracles when they did happen, is that it was preceded by the faith, and often repentance, of the one seeking the healing. Is it really entirely on the faith of the priesthood holder to make the miracle happen, or is the person seeking the blessing chiefly responsible for having the faith to be healed? I'll give some examples to reflect on:

The woman with the issue of blood: She touched the Savior's garment without Him knowing about it. Christ didn't exercise any faith in this event, as He wasn't the one initiating it. He was merely walking through. The woman obviously was healed, but Christ tells her that it was her faith that healed her.

The Centurion: Again, Christ never even laid eyes on this dying boy, but the Centurian's faith was what made the healing possible, according to Christ.

"They faith, has made thee whole" is oft repeated by Christ and needs to be remembered when we are wondering why we don't see the genuine miracles we read about.

Is it fair to place the blame on "unworthy/faithless priesthood holders" who don't even have the power to heal a paper cut, when we ourselves are often the ones lacking the true faith to receive this blessing? I think blaming the priesthood holder is putting the cart before the horse. Think of it this way, would it have been Christ's fault if the woman hadn't have received the miracle of her illness being healed if her faith was insufficient to do so?

I think we as humans tend to find fault and place blame where it doesn't belong. If we are not feeling the influence of the spirit in our daily lives, is that the Church's fault or our own? If we aren't witnessing miracles in our lives, is that because the church is fallen and priesthood dried up, or is it because we don't have eyes to see and ears to hear the miracles that are indeed happening around us. Take for instance all the wonderful advancements that have happened in our own lifetime with regards to medicine, vaccines, food production, pest prevention,etc.... We have reached a point in our existence here on this Earth, that we can sustain larger human populations because we can grow food year round, we have devised ways to combat several childhood diseases that decimated past peoples. We have the ability to diagnose and treat mental illnesses and cancers that were death sentences in the past. All of these miracles have happened, I'm sure, through the good grace and mercy of our Lord. If you read some about some of the "coincidences" that accompanied many of these discoveries or dreams that these scientists had to reveal to them how to solve the riddle or puzzle that was keeping them from exploring these further, it is evident that this has been nothing short of providence and the Lord's guiding hand to help all of humanity. In light of these advancements, I think we need to remember that the Lord will seldom come down and do for us what we could do for ourselves. We can pray for a Temple to be built, but the Lord will not send an army of Angels to build it for us. We need to put forth the work, the effort, the sacrifice to make this a reality. The same often holds true for our own illnesses and maladies. The Lord has blessed us with advancements in science and medicines the likes that all of our brothers and sisters in past dispensations did not have access to. Perhaps the blessings and miracles they recieved when they are on deaths door or are mentally deranged are our modern day equivalent of taking an aspirin or a valium? Maybe the voices in one's head in yesteryear is our day's tumor in the brain that needs to get operated on? Again, the Lord will seldom do for us what we have the ability to do for ourselves. To put it in another way, I cannot put the feeding, clothing, and shelter needs of my wife and children solely in the hands of the Lord, when He has blessed me with the ability to work for their sustenance and given instruction that they have claim on me to provide for them. So me simply praying for this to happen isn't going to do the trick, no matter how much I might wish that He would just drop all of our physical needs in our laps.

I distinctly remember a story I was told by a faithful member of the church who fell on hard times. He had lost his job and was barely making ends meet. He was trying to save his money for other needs when one day he got sick and had a very bad ear infection. He figured he could just "pray it away". When the ear infection persisted and did not go away, he sought out a priesthood blessing. In the blessing they promised him "quick recovery" if he would go to the doctor to have it looked at. He didn't like that, but instead focused on the "quick recovery" he was promised. A week later, the pain was worse and he sought another blessing from another brother. He again, was promised "quick recovery" if we would just go to the doctor and have it looked at. He again, thought his faith would be sufficient to make his "quick recovery" a reality. 3 days later, the pain was unbearable and he asked for yet another blessing. This blessing was different in that he was reproached by the brother and chastised him for his reluctance to obey the word of the Lord. The brother at this point relented and finally went to the doctor. He had a really bad ear infection that needed antibiotics to clear up. He noticed an immediate relief to his pain both thru the ear drops he received but also the clearing up of the infection he had tolerated for so many days. His pain gone completely within 2 or 3 days. He closed that story with a takeaway, that I am sharing now. The priesthood blessing was fulfilled. It did promise "quick recovery" based on obedience to the commands that he had been given.

Finally, I would like to share with you that there are indeed miracles on the Earth today. I have seen them, and I have had the privilege to perform them. The priesthood is real and yes, the Lord can and does still work through His servants here on the Earth, despite our imperfections, frailties, vanities, and lack of faith. Priesthood holders are no more righteous than our good sisters, and we know that. However, the Lord, through His mercies, still works with imperfect people to bring His work forward. That is one of the best messages of the gospel, is that despite our imperfections, our Lord still has use for us, even the weakest of us. I have personally seen too many miracles to ever deny that the Lord still works His miracles even in our day.

I'm not sure if this helps any, but it's how I've reconciled some of the questions I used to have about miracles in old times, versus those we see (or don't see) in today's world.

12And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. 13And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. 14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) 15Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. 16There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one
---------------

This is our standard ^^^^ we need to accept where we are so we can get to where we can be.

I will put blame on the leaders....they don't speak of casting out evil spirits.....it's part of their job to teach us these things. They point their sheep to doctors.

There is a HUGE discrepancy between us and ALL other saints.

If they actively taught to heal all manor of desises, casting out of demons etc.....you'd have a point.




Bible > KJV > Acts 3
◄ Acts 3 ►
King James Bible Par ▾
Healing the Lame Beggar

1Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength. 8And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9And all the people saw him walking and praising God: 10And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
----------

That’s not the job of the leaders. The job of the leaders is to point us to Christ, so the Lord can teach us all things. If we are relying too much on the leaders, our minds will be darkened (Just as Joseph Smith said)

try again, bro

The apostles job is to teach what Jesus taught the apostles....

This is what Jesus called taught the apostles.

Teaching people to do the works of Christ....in the name of Christ.......IS POINTING PEOPLE TO CHRIST.

Under your logic you wouldn't teach people the scriptures.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:39 am

JustDan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:21 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:42 pm By this theory, a 12 year old boy has more authority than heavenly mother.

A 12 year old has not received his endowment thus has less authority than a woman who has. She has a greater priesthood.

You can't use the assumption that we have a Heavenly Mother (yes, it is an assumption not doctrine) as an argument against a doctrinal point I.e. the Priesthood of God.

An endowment does not give an unordained woman greater authority than the Aaronic Priesthood. What is the point of being ordained with Priesthood if one can simply receive it through the endowment?

We absolutely can state that we have a heavenly mother, it’s our doctrine. The family and husband and wife are sealed and the family is in force in the eternities. No God can become God if he is not sealed to a female, this is our teachings. But hey, let’s just erase women and motherhood all together and make it all about the priesthood and lose the purpose and meaning of the entire plan.

JustDan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 4:13 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:39 am

JustDan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:21 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:42 pm By this theory, a 12 year old boy has more authority than heavenly mother.

A 12 year old has not received his endowment thus has less authority than a woman who has. She has a greater priesthood.

You can't use the assumption that we have a Heavenly Mother (yes, it is an assumption not doctrine) as an argument against a doctrinal point I.e. the Priesthood of God.

An endowment does not give an unordained woman greater authority than the Aaronic Priesthood. What is the point of being ordained with Priesthood if one can simply receive it through the endowment?

We absolutely can state that we have a heavenly mother, it’s our doctrine. The family and husband and wife are sealed and the family is in force in the eternities. No God can become God if he is not sealed to a female, this is our teachings. But hey, let’s just erase women and motherhood all together and make it all about the priesthood and lose the purpose and meaning of the entire plan.

Not wanting to distract from the topic here, I will simply state that it is absolutely not doctrine that we have a Mother in Heaven and there is no scripture nor any modern revelation from God to support it.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:33 pm Look, I like the conference talks. A lot of good is taught there. But I have personally witnessed false doctrine being taught over the pulpit at a General conference. There is no doctrine of infallibility in the church. Ballard is wrong. Priesthood is NOT given via the endowment. While it maybe true that we recieve blessings of the priesthood vis the endowment, so is every ordinance also a blessing of the priesthood. Recieving the sacrament- blessing of the priesthood. Sealing? Blessing of the priesthood. Patriarchal blessing? Blessing of the priesthood. None of these equate to being given priesthood authority or power. They are fruits of having the priesthood, but not the act of giving priesthood in and of themselves. This play on words is an appeasement for all the "let them pray" and "ordain women" movements. The scriptures do not affirm this teaching that priesthood is given via endowment.

JustDan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 4:13 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 10:39 am

JustDan wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:21 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:42 pm By this theory, a 12 year old boy has more authority than heavenly mother.

A 12 year old has not received his endowment thus has less authority than a woman who has. She has a greater priesthood.

You can't use the assumption that we have a Heavenly Mother (yes, it is an assumption not doctrine) as an argument against a doctrinal point I.e. the Priesthood of God.

An endowment does not give an unordained woman greater authority than the Aaronic Priesthood. What is the point of being ordained with Priesthood if one can simply receive it through the endowment?

We absolutely can state that we have a heavenly mother, it’s our doctrine. The family and husband and wife are sealed and the family is in force in the eternities. No God can become God if he is not sealed to a female, this is our teachings. But hey, let’s just erase women and motherhood all together and make it all about the priesthood and lose the purpose and meaning of the entire plan.

Not wanting to distract from the topic here, I will simply state that it is absolutely not doctrine that we have a Mother in Heaven and there is no scripture nor any modern revelation from God to support it.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 5:11 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:33 pm Look, I like the conference talks. A lot of good is taught there. But I have personally witnessed false doctrine being taught over the pulpit at a General conference. There is no doctrine of infallibility in the church. Ballard is wrong. Priesthood is NOT given via the endowment. While it maybe true that we recieve blessings of the priesthood vis the endowment, so is every ordinance also a blessing of the priesthood. Recieving the sacrament- blessing of the priesthood. Sealing? Blessing of the priesthood. Patriarchal blessing? Blessing of the priesthood. None of these equate to being given priesthood authority or power. They are fruits of having the priesthood, but not the act of giving priesthood in and of themselves. This play on words is an appeasement for all the "let them pray" and "ordain women" movements. The scriptures do not affirm this teaching that priesthood is given via endowment.

How can Ballard be wrong then? He said exactly that men are the ones given priesthood through the authority of priesthood keys held only by men.

It’s hard for me to believe individuals who display what you just did. You don’t believe Ballard because you missed what he even said.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 5:31 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 5:11 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:33 pm Look, I like the conference talks. A lot of good is taught there. But I have personally witnessed false doctrine being taught over the pulpit at a General conference. There is no doctrine of infallibility in the church. Ballard is wrong. Priesthood is NOT given via the endowment. While it maybe true that we recieve blessings of the priesthood vis the endowment, so is every ordinance also a blessing of the priesthood. Recieving the sacrament- blessing of the priesthood. Sealing? Blessing of the priesthood. Patriarchal blessing? Blessing of the priesthood. None of these equate to being given priesthood authority or power. They are fruits of having the priesthood, but not the act of giving priesthood in and of themselves. This play on words is an appeasement for all the "let them pray" and "ordain women" movements. The scriptures do not affirm this teaching that priesthood is given via endowment.

How can Ballard be wrong then? He said exactly that men are the ones given priesthood through the authority of priesthood keys held only by men.

It’s hard for me to believe individuals who display what you just did. You don’t believe Ballard because you missed what he even said.

"When men and women go the temple they are both endowed with power, which is priesthood power.

This quote does not mean what many are scratching at. I think this is a play on words by the brethren to appease the radicals out there. Many people see this and other like quotes and interpret endowment with "priesthood power" or authority. They split hairs and say, "well there is a difference". No there really isnt. Section 121 uses the terms synonymously and interchangeably. There is only one way to recieve preisthood powers and that is by being ordained to it.

Now, ANYBODY can recieve the blessings of the priesthood, but that is not the same as receiving priesthood power/authority.

Maybe Ballard misspoke, or maybe it's a curious way to say something that does involve priesthood power to do, like recieving ones endowment. But we could use this same phraseology on other priesthood acts and it doesnt quite have the same meaning.

"When you partake of the sacrament, you are recieving power, which is priesthood power."

"When you recieve your patriarchal blessing, you recieve power, which is priesthood power."

"When you are baptized, you recieve powers which is priesthood power."

If we are ok with these also being true then Ballard is correct and not just pulling this doctrine from left field.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 5:31 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 5:11 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 3:33 pm Look, I like the conference talks. A lot of good is taught there. But I have personally witnessed false doctrine being taught over the pulpit at a General conference. There is no doctrine of infallibility in the church. Ballard is wrong. Priesthood is NOT given via the endowment. While it maybe true that we recieve blessings of the priesthood vis the endowment, so is every ordinance also a blessing of the priesthood. Recieving the sacrament- blessing of the priesthood. Sealing? Blessing of the priesthood. Patriarchal blessing? Blessing of the priesthood. None of these equate to being given priesthood authority or power. They are fruits of having the priesthood, but not the act of giving priesthood in and of themselves. This play on words is an appeasement for all the "let them pray" and "ordain women" movements. The scriptures do not affirm this teaching that priesthood is given via endowment.

How can Ballard be wrong then? He said exactly that men are the ones given priesthood through the authority of priesthood keys held only by men.

It’s hard for me to believe individuals who display what you just did. You don’t believe Ballard because you missed what he even said.

"When men and women go the temple they are both endowed with power, which is priesthood power.

This quote does not mean what many are scratching at. I think this is a play on words by the brethren to appease the radicals out there. Many people see this and other like quotes and interpret endowment with "priesthood power" or authority. They split hairs and say, "well there is a difference". No there really isnt. Section 121 uses the terms synonymously and interchangeably. There is only one way to recieve preisthood powers and that is by being ordained to it.

Now, ANYBODY can recieve the blessings of the priesthood, but that is not the same as receiving priesthood power/authority.

Maybe Ballard misspoke, or maybe it's a curious way to say something that does involve priesthood power to do, like recieving ones endowment. But we could use this same phraseology on other priesthood acts and it doesnt quite have the same meaning.

"When you partake of the sacrament, you are recieving power, which is priesthood power."

"When you recieve your patriarchal blessing, you recieve power, which is priesthood power."

"When you are baptized, you recieve powers which is priesthood power."

If we are ok with these also being true then Ballard is correct and not just pulling this doctrine from left field.

• The scriptures version of "power" refer to duties charged to priesthood bearers such as the laying on of hands or having charge over priesthood offices and administering ordinances. D&C 107 even says "ordained unto this power".

• The modern version of "power" refers to blessings that occur as a result of having the priesthood on the Earth OR being set apart to perform a task in the church or kingdom of God. It seems to overlap with the what we would normally call the power of God or being called by God. If you listen to the contexts in which it's used, it even sounds like 'Godly favor' sometimes. This definition is notably more nebulous. This is why I compared it to 'The Force' in a previous post.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 9:56 am

gradles21 wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 9:14 am Satan is really good at his job. He has beguiled a lot of women in the church, convincing them more and more to care about this very topic, which really boils down to pride and trying to compete with men. Convincing women in general to ignore their true purpose and to be obsessed with things they don't have, and will never have, has to be one of the serpents greatest accomplishments.

This thread was about the shaming this MP did.

I still believe a 12 year old boy doesn’t carry authority over the women of the church. He can pass the sacrament. Big deal.

No woman I know wants to be a man. But every woman I know desires to be respected by men not thought of as inferior. That’s what this MP actions did to this woman. He put her down. He wouldn’t have (pretty confident in this) said such a put down to a male missionary in public....because this man revealed he actually thinks little of women.

Everyone should feel good about their membership, status and participation in this church. It’s not pride to pursue such a thing. If women feel inferior then there is an imbalance. Men don’t feel inferior because they don’t have a uterus because it’s not a problem or been shown to put men inferior to women. Men do not understand how women feel or what’s in their heart. It’s easy to judge from the sidelines.

There is no male envy or wanting to be men or even wanting priesthood office. It’s a bit more complex

gradles21 wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 7:19 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 9:56 am

gradles21 wrote: ↑January 18th, 2020, 9:14 am Satan is really good at his job. He has beguiled a lot of women in the church, convincing them more and more to care about this very topic, which really boils down to pride and trying to compete with men. Convincing women in general to ignore their true purpose and to be obsessed with things they don't have, and will never have, has to be one of the serpents greatest accomplishments.

This thread was about the shaming this MP did.

I still believe a 12 year old boy doesn’t carry authority over the women of the church. He can pass the sacrament. Big deal.

No woman I know wants to be a man. But every woman I know desires to be respected by men not thought of as inferior. That’s what this MP actions did to this woman. He put her down. He wouldn’t have (pretty confident in this) said such a put down to a male missionary in public....because this man revealed he actually thinks little of women.

Everyone should feel good about their membership, status and participation in this church. It’s not pride to pursue such a thing. If women feel inferior then there is an imbalance. Men don’t feel inferior because they don’t have a uterus because it’s not a problem or been shown to put men inferior to women. Men do not understand how women feel or what’s in their heart. It’s easy to judge from the sidelines.

There is no male envy or wanting to be men or even wanting priesthood office. It’s a bit more complex

Assuming that this happened exactly the way the op said then I would say maybe the mp was wrong, or maybe mp he had stewardship for his missionaries and did what he needed to do, we don't know all the circumstances surrounding the event. But I do know that the sisters in my mission drove our mp nuts half the time with their feminist horse crap.

If a woman feels inferior in the church she has been beguiled by Satan.

No male envy? Are you kidding me? I think the ordain women group and their disgusting leader (Kate Kelly I think?) would disagree with you.

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

nightlight wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:37 pm

The Airbender wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 10:39 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:04 pm I generally try to avoid the feminst threads lately because I don't think they're very constructive anymore. But they've got me thinking more about just how drastically the Church has changed in the 15 years since I completed my mission.

As most of you know there is a structured leadership hierarchy with in the mission and I used to try to explain it to non-members in terms of military rank structure. These are loose definitions that don't fit exactly but I generally thought of the structure as something like this:

Mission President (MP) - Colonel
Assistant to the President (AP) - Captain (Senior AP I guess would be like a Major)
Zone Leader (ZL) - Leutenant (Senior ZL - 1st LT, junior ZL - 2nd LT)
District Leader (DL) - Seargent
Senior Companion in non-leadership role - Corporal
Junior Companion - Private First Class

Again, I know it doesn't fit exactly but it's how I would explain it to my non-member Air Force/military freinds.

So the Sisters didn't hold leadership roles other than as senior companions. They didn't serve as District or Zone Leaders nor as Assistants to the President. However a few of them served as something called a "Sister Viajante" in Portuguese which I guess would translate to "Traveling Sister". This role was similar in some ways to the APs but their main tasks were focused on training and assisting Sister missionary pairs specifically, and not really on leadership like the roles of AP, ZL/DL for Elders. Many of you know this already especially if you served a mission.

Anyway I'll get to the point. These titles had a way of going to people's heads, both Elders and Sisters, more so for Elders for obvious reasons. However there was one occasion in a Zone Leader confrence I attended towards the end of my mission where a particularly prideful sister made some comment to one of the newer Zone leaders saying she was a "a Sister Viajante" and "knew the proper ways to teach doctrine and relate to investigators". Or something to that effect. I honestly can't remember what triggered the outburst since I missed the first part of the conversation. Right after that the Mission President called her out in front of everyone and said "Do not ever tell a Melchezidek Preisthood holder you're a Sister Viajate. A 12 year old Deacon has more authority than you." That part I remeber and will never forget. He didn't yell at her but his tone was firm. She was silet and I expected her to start crying any minute and I'm fairly certain she did because later she got up and went to the bathroom for like 10 minites.

Sorry about the wall of text but I wanted to give some context to the comment. It was a harsh comment for sure, and it maybe even wasn't appropriate for the mission president to call her out in front of everyone like that. But his statement was true, I didn't doubt it then and I don't doubt it now. This truth seems to be falling out of favor with our Church today unfortunately and giving way to a new "woke gospel" as I and others have taken to calling it.

We quibble about titles and ranks in the priesthood forgetting that our Mother is every bit as wise and powerful as our Father and that her daughters all have their own priesthood from Her.

Just because our Parents have not seen fit to reveal to us what it all means does not diminish the power of the Priestesshood that our mothers and wives and daughters possess. To try and use the Priesthood as a way of assuming authority over a woman is unrighteous dominion and shameful.

We do have authority over women. What we shouldn't do, like the MP in the OP....is exercise unrightuous dominion over women.

We can't measure women by measure of what a man is to be.

It's like a women using the fact she birth a child to say she knows how to be a better parent.

Just cuz a man has the priesthood.....it doesn't mean he knows God more than a woman.

Did Peter know Jesus more fully than Mary...lol who knows, it depends on their individual intelligence.

My grandmother was smarter than the lot of you