Temple clothing change?

[johnBob]

"All curses must be removed" That's just feminists blather and justification in order to justify the Temple changes.

It has no basis in Doctrine or in Scripture that before the 2nd Coming, this will happen. The world hasn't changed simply because we live in 2020-men are still men and women are still women.

But you are more than free to believe some new age feminists tripe that "all curses" will be removed prior to the 2nd Coming.

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

Man hasn’t ruled over woman for a while now. Once women have their desire towards their husband (men please don’t misunderstand this thing you do not understand) removed then the curse will be lifted.

Maybe not in western nations, but in pretty much all of Asia and Africa, women have very few rights protected.

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

[MMbelieve]

"All curses must be removed" That's just feminists blather and justification in order to justify the Temple changes.

It has no basis in Doctrine or in Scripture that before the 2nd Coming, this will happen. The world hasn't changed simply because we live in 2020-men are still men and women are still women.

But you are more than free to believe some new age feminists tripe that "all curses" will be removed prior to the 2nd Coming.

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

Man hasn’t ruled over woman for a while now. Once women have their desire towards their husband (men please don’t misunderstand this thing you do not understand) removed then the curse will be lifted.

Again you don't understand what you are advocating for.

We have and will have a Matriarchy, it has nothing to do with "the curse being lifted". The Adam and Eve story is telling us how the very nature of reality is to be ordered.

It is telling us you can't have equality, you either have Patriarchy or Matriarchy, someone must lead and someone must follow.

Who said I was advocating for anything. How about you try to refrain from telling me I’m not understanding something based on one sentence. I understand just fine. This talk of woman’s curse being lifted to me is pretty dumb. The nature of woman is to desire her husband....is that really a curse? Only to women who don’t like it. Which is not me

[johnBob]

Although the changes to the endowment to be more PC Feminist absolutely turn my stomach and make me hold my nose, this latest change to the way the clothing is made doesn't bother me at all. If it cuts costs, improves affordability for all, while still not changing the endowment, who cares? Some people need to calm down on these. We shouldn't care if the little plastic thing in the hat is no longer included. It always looked terrible anyways. Also I will not miss the little string used to attach the hat to the robe. That thing was always annoying. We need to stop nit picking ANYTHING the church does in the name of improvement. Some things really are an improvement. That little string on the hats isn't going to make the experience any less rewarding. The changing of the covenants, that's a different story though.....

Seriously need a word equal to feminism for men who advocate for men’s rights and men’s power to choose. It would make it much easier to refer to the sentiment in reverse which seems to be ramping up these days.

I don’t like women being blamed for changes made and when changes come for men it’s a “hey, everyone relax it’s a non-issue”.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you understand what is really happening.

Equality is a myth-it is an impossibility. There is always someone who is above and someone who is below-it is the nature of things.

The reason why there isn't a corresponding word is because there can't be a corresponding word. Feminism (when you look up modern feminist) encompasses this idea of "men's rights". It's the reverse of Patriarchy, Patriarchy encompassed women's rights. Women didn't agree with the idea and then flipped it on it's head.

Now men's rights are encompassed in Feminism.

Just like there is no use of toxic feminimity in modernity but there is toxic masculinity. The order is flipped.

I understand just fine. To me it’s all simply immature distractions from the reality of Gods ways. But for sake of chit chat a word to convey what I was intending would help to get the intent across.

It's an immature discussion to talk about the very nature of how God created us?

Okay . . .

[johnBob]

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

Man hasn’t ruled over woman for a while now. Once women have their desire towards their husband (men please don’t misunderstand this thing you do not understand) removed then the curse will be lifted.

Again you don't understand what you are advocating for.

We have and will have a Matriarchy, it has nothing to do with "the curse being lifted". The Adam and Eve story is telling us how the very nature of reality is to be ordered.

It is telling us you can't have equality, you either have Patriarchy or Matriarchy, someone must lead and someone must follow.

Who said I was advocating for anything. How about you try to refrain from telling me I’m not understanding something based on one sentence. I understand just fine. This talk of woman’s curse being lifted to me is pretty dumb. The nature of woman is to desire her husband....is that really a curse? Only to women who don’t like it. Which is not me

I'm "mansplaining" I'm sure . . .sigh

How about you just simply explain yourself better?

You say "don't misunderstand me" but then fail to actually explain yourself leaving it up to someone else to figure out what you are thinking but don't want to say.

Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to properly explain what you are saying-sometimes it takes paragraphs to do so-that's why many times I write paragraphs-b/c I want to be understood so I explain myself. I don't just say "don't misunderstand me" but then never actually communicate what it is or how it is that I could be misunderstood.

[MMbelieve]

Seriously need a word equal to feminism for men who advocate for men’s rights and men’s power to choose. It would make it much easier to refer to the sentiment in reverse which seems to be ramping up these days.

I don’t like women being blamed for changes made and when changes come for men it’s a “hey, everyone relax it’s a non-issue”.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you understand what is really happening.

Equality is a myth-it is an impossibility. There is always someone who is above and someone who is below-it is the nature of things.

The reason why there isn't a corresponding word is because there can't be a corresponding word. Feminism (when you look up modern feminist) encompasses this idea of "men's rights". It's the reverse of Patriarchy, Patriarchy encompassed women's rights. Women didn't agree with the idea and then flipped it on it's head.

Now men's rights are encompassed in Feminism.

Just like there is no use of toxic feminimity in modernity but there is toxic masculinity. The order is flipped.

I understand just fine. To me it’s all simply immature distractions from the reality of Gods ways. But for sake of chit chat a word to convey what I was intending would help to get the intent across.

It's an immature discussion to talk about the very nature of how God created us?

Okay . . .

Hmmm....?

This talk of toxic masculinity and toxic feminism the way the world seems to never cease from mentioning is what I was referring to. It’s also what I was referring to in my very first comment to point out how stupid it is. Just let go JohnBob.

[MMbelieve]

Man hasn’t ruled over woman for a while now. Once women have their desire towards their husband (men please don’t misunderstand this thing you do not understand) removed then the curse will be lifted.

Again you don't understand what you are advocating for.

We have and will have a Matriarchy, it has nothing to do with "the curse being lifted". The Adam and Eve story is telling us how the very nature of reality is to be ordered.

It is telling us you can't have equality, you either have Patriarchy or Matriarchy, someone must lead and someone must follow.

Who said I was advocating for anything. How about you try to refrain from telling me I’m not understanding something based on one sentence. I understand just fine. This talk of woman’s curse being lifted to me is pretty dumb. The nature of woman is to desire her husband....is that really a curse? Only to women who don’t like it. Which is not me

I'm "mansplaining" I'm sure . . .sigh

How about you just simply explain yourself better?

You say "don't misunderstand me" but then fail to actually explain yourself leaving it up to someone else to figure out what you are thinking but don't want to say.

Sorry, I find elongated explanations also annoy people. Hope you can simply let it go. There are people here who will know exactly what I’m saying (wish it could have been left at my first comment) and my comment is aimed towards that.

[johnBob]

I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you understand what is really happening.

Equality is a myth-it is an impossibility. There is always someone who is above and someone who is below-it is the nature of things.

The reason why there isn't a corresponding word is because there can't be a corresponding word. Feminism (when you look up modern feminist) encompasses this idea of "men's rights". It's the reverse of Patriarchy, Patriarchy encompassed women's rights. Women didn't agree with the idea and then flipped it on it's head.

Now men's rights are encompassed in Feminism.

Just like there is no use of toxic feminimity in modernity but there is toxic masculinity. The order is flipped.

I understand just fine. To me it’s all simply immature distractions from the reality of Gods ways. But for sake of chit chat a word to convey what I was intending would help to get the intent across.

It's an immature discussion to talk about the very nature of how God created us?

Okay . . .

Hmmm....?

This talk of toxic masculinity and toxic feminism the way the world seems to never cease from mentioning is what I was referring to. It’s also what I was referring to in my very first comment to point out how stupid it is. Just let go JohnBob.

How stupid the world is about toxic masculinity?

Yes I agree it's very stupid for the world to go on about toxic masculinity. I'd like to solve that problem-I'd like for it to never be an issue. I'd like for us to never have to talk about it-that would be fantastic.

But you don't get to that point by simply ignoring it-you get to that point by understanding why it is that "toxic masculinity" has become such a thing. You get to that point by understanding the root of why it is that it is such a topic of conversation.

[Sarah]

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

Man hasn’t ruled over woman for a while now. Once women have their desire towards their husband (men please don’t misunderstand this thing you do not understand) removed then the curse will be lifted.

Maybe not in western nations, but in pretty much all of Asia and Africa, women have very few rights protected.

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

[johnBob]

Again you don't understand what you are advocating for.

We have and will have a Matriarchy, it has nothing to do with "the curse being lifted". The Adam and Eve story is telling us how the very nature of reality is to be ordered.

It is telling us you can't have equality, you either have Patriarchy or Matriarchy, someone must lead and someone must follow.

Who said I was advocating for anything. How about you try to refrain from telling me I’m not understanding something based on one sentence. I understand just fine. This talk of woman’s curse being lifted to me is pretty dumb. The nature of woman is to desire her husband....is that really a curse? Only to women who don’t like it. Which is not me

I'm "mansplaining" I'm sure . . .sigh

How about you just simply explain yourself better?

You say "don't misunderstand me" but then fail to actually explain yourself leaving it up to someone else to figure out what you are thinking but don't want to say.

Sorry, I find elongated explanations also annoy people. Hope you can simply let it go. There are people here who will know exactly what I’m saying (wish it could have been left at my first comment) and my comment is aimed towards that.

But I'm not one of them? You stated "How about you try to refrain from telling me I’m not understanding something based on one sentence."

I explained to you why I said what I said and your response is simply a "I'd rather not explain it to you b/c I find elongated explanations annoying"

So the root is thus, I made an assumption based off your words, you got testy because of my assumption, I asked to you explain better with your words so I can understand, you then state it's annoying to have to explain it!

Geez, no wonder men and women have so many problems . . .and men and women are "equal" LOL whoever states that most certainly isn't married!

It's okay-I'll let it go-I just find this whole exchange tremendously humorous!

[johnBob]

Man hasn’t ruled over woman for a while now. Once women have their desire towards their husband (men please don’t misunderstand this thing you do not understand) removed then the curse will be lifted.

Maybe not in western nations, but in pretty much all of Asia and Africa, women have very few rights protected.

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

[JK4Woods]

Although the changes to the endowment to be more PC Feminist absolutely turn my stomach and make me hold my nose, this latest change to the way the clothing is made doesn't bother me at all. If it cuts costs, improves affordability for all, while still not changing the endowment, who cares? Some people need to calm down on these. We shouldn't care if the little plastic thing in the hat is no longer included. It always looked terrible anyways. Also I will not miss the little string used to attach the hat to the robe. That thing was always annoying. We need to stop nit picking ANYTHING the church does in the name of improvement. Some things really are an improvement. That little string on the hats isn't going to make the experience any less rewarding. The changing of the covenants, that's a different story though.....

The string was there for only one purpose, to keep the robe from sliding off a sloped shoulder guy.
Husky Scandanavians with square shoulders didn't need it, sloped shoulder farmers sure did, else the robe would keep sliding off down the arm.
There was not other reason for it... Any other symbolisim is made up.

[MMbelieve]

I understand just fine. To me it’s all simply immature distractions from the reality of Gods ways. But for sake of chit chat a word to convey what I was intending would help to get the intent across.

It's an immature discussion to talk about the very nature of how God created us?

Okay . . .

Hmmm....?

This talk of toxic masculinity and toxic feminism the way the world seems to never cease from mentioning is what I was referring to. It’s also what I was referring to in my very first comment to point out how stupid it is. Just let go JohnBob.

How stupid the world is about toxic masculinity?

Yes I agree it's very stupid for the world to go on about toxic masculinity. I'd like to solve that problem-I'd like for it to never be an issue. I'd like for us to never have to talk about it-that would be fantastic.

But you don't get to that point by simply ignoring it-you get to that point by understanding why it is that "toxic masculinity" has become such a thing. You get to that point by understanding the root of why it is that it is such a topic of conversation.

I understand how people got to the term as well as understanding why people view feminism in both extremes of toxic and good.

I don’t ignore things, I just learn and adjust and move on. Most philosophies of the world are dumb to me yet I still completely understand why we have them and why it’s unavoidable in our current condition.

[MMbelieve]

Although the changes to the endowment to be more PC Feminist absolutely turn my stomach and make me hold my nose, this latest change to the way the clothing is made doesn't bother me at all. If it cuts costs, improves affordability for all, while still not changing the endowment, who cares? Some people need to calm down on these. We shouldn't care if the little plastic thing in the hat is no longer included. It always looked terrible anyways. Also I will not miss the little string used to attach the hat to the robe. That thing was always annoying. We need to stop nit picking ANYTHING the church does in the name of improvement. Some things really are an improvement. That little string on the hats isn't going to make the experience any less rewarding. The changing of the covenants, that's a different story though.....

The string was there for only one purpose, to keep the robe from sliding off a sloped shoulder guy.
Husky Scandanavians with square shoulders didn't need it, sloped shoulder farmers sure did, else the robe would keep sliding off down the arm.
There was not other reason for it... Any other symbolisim is made up.

The robe always kept falling of my shoulder why didn’t I get a string to keep it in place? There must have been something to the men having it and women not having it that was specific to their wearing a cap. I had to learn to take a safety pin to keep it from being annoying the entire time. The robe material was simply poor, I do not have slopped shoulders myself but it was a constant problem for every woman I ever went to the temple with.

You sure there was no other reason?

[MMbelieve]

Maybe not in western nations, but in pretty much all of Asia and Africa, women have very few rights protected.

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

One of the things that men can do or offer as men in this world is to keep other bad men at bay for woman and children. Like a lion who walks the perimeter of his territory. This is done by a lot of men in this world because it’s part of their natures if they are true to it. Sadly, there are too many bad men in the world who let power and authority or possessiveness get to them and believe they are superior to women and women are indeed less than a man. This is pretty obvious.

What many dismiss from Sarah’s words in the absolute truth for many women around the world and I’m really not sure why people are so quick to dismiss it. It is not truth for all but it’s truth for enough.

Men are great and needed and I hope men can realize this in a way that uplifts those around them and makes the world a better place. This is male leadership!

[Rick Grimes]

Although the changes to the endowment to be more PC Feminist absolutely turn my stomach and make me hold my nose, this latest change to the way the clothing is made doesn't bother me at all. If it cuts costs, improves affordability for all, while still not changing the endowment, who cares? Some people need to calm down on these. We shouldn't care if the little plastic thing in the hat is no longer included. It always looked terrible anyways. Also I will not miss the little string used to attach the hat to the robe. That thing was always annoying. We need to stop nit picking ANYTHING the church does in the name of improvement. Some things really are an improvement. That little string on the hats isn't going to make the experience any less rewarding. The changing of the covenants, that's a different story though.....

The feminist changes in our society was the adversary's response to what he knew was coming and not the other way around.

D&C 113:9 What are we to understand by Zion loosing herself from the bands of her neck; 2d verse?
10 We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord from whence they have fallen; which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them, or give them revelation. See the 6th, 7th, and 8th verses. The bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her, or the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles.

All curses must be removed before the Millennium can begin including Eve's curses. There's a lot more to it, but just a little seed for you to consider.

"All curses must be removed" That's just feminists blather and justification in order to justify the Temple changes.

It has no basis in Doctrine or in Scripture that before the 2nd Coming, this will happen. The world hasn't changed simply because we live in 2020-men are still men and women are still women.

But you are more than free to believe some new age feminists tripe that "all curses" will be removed prior to the 2nd Coming.

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted. We're talking about the vast majority of history where woman must be subject to her husband for shelter and basic needs. We take this for granted because it's been gone here in our country - but it is still present all over the world. My in laws are on a mission to India. My father in law was asked by an investigator how often he beats his wife.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

More feminist propaganda^

The "curse" will eventually be lifted, but only that of having to physically suffer through child birth. That's a result of this imperfect world. Furthermore, yes, women wont rely on their husbands for sustenance since we wont have to worry about working a 9 to 5 to eat, live, and sleep.
As to women holding th priesthood, utter rubbish. Women holding equal power with their husbands, again, rubbish. We dont see it in the heavens now with Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. What, is Heavenly Father also going to be more woke in the hereafter? Is Heavenly Mother under a curse too? Why dont we pray to our Mother Goddess?? If she is equal in authority and power to our Heavenly Father, than she holds more power and authority than Jesus Christ. Where are our temples to Her?

Just silly what some feminists posit for "knowledge". SMH

[abijah`]

time to go set up some asherah poles. yas queen slay!

[Alaris]

The feminist changes in our society was the adversary's response to what he knew was coming and not the other way around.

D&C 113:9 What are we to understand by Zion loosing herself from the bands of her neck; 2d verse?
10 We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord from whence they have fallen; which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them, or give them revelation. See the 6th, 7th, and 8th verses. The bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her, or the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles.

All curses must be removed before the Millennium can begin including Eve's curses. There's a lot more to it, but just a little seed for you to consider.

"All curses must be removed" That's just feminists blather and justification in order to justify the Temple changes.

It has no basis in Doctrine or in Scripture that before the 2nd Coming, this will happen. The world hasn't changed simply because we live in 2020-men are still men and women are still women.

But you are more than free to believe some new age feminists tripe that "all curses" will be removed prior to the 2nd Coming.

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted. We're talking about the vast majority of history where woman must be subject to her husband for shelter and basic needs. We take this for granted because it's been gone here in our country - but it is still present all over the world. My in laws are on a mission to India. My father in law was asked by an investigator how often he beats his wife.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

More feminist propaganda^

The "curse" will eventually be lifted, but only that of having to physically suffer through child birth. That's a result of this imperfect world. Furthermore, yes, women wont rely on their husbands for sustenance since we wont have to worry about working a 9 to 5 to eat, live, and sleep.
As to women holding th priesthood, utter rubbish. Women holding equal power with their husbands, again, rubbish. We dont see it in the heavens now with Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. What, is Heavenly Father also going to be more woke in the hereafter? Is Heavenly Mother under a curse too? Why dont we pray to our Mother Goddess?? If she is equal in authority and power to our Heavenly Father, than she holds more power and authority than Jesus Christ. Where are our temples to Her?

Just silly what some feminists posit for "knowledge". SMH

Might the fact Heavenly Mother has been obscured have something to do with the curses of the Garden? Maybe?

Are just men or are both men and women told they will rule and reign over the House of Israel? Do you now what Heavenly Mother's role is? Does she have authority over you Rick Grimes? Do you know what her dominion and power is? No?

[Sarah]

Maybe not in western nations, but in pretty much all of Asia and Africa, women have very few rights protected.

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

Yes, actually millions of fathers have sold their daughters to be sex-slaves, even to so-called husbands. In patriarchal cultures where the women have no rights, the husbands can rape their wives as much as they want. In fact, there are millions of fathers who rape and molest their daughters. You are believing a fantasy that it is "not so bad" to help you feel better.

India's slave brides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulRaK1i6qo

Father sells his child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIAtLQxWhLo

Fathers selling daughers in Yemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmP66xGpjGo

I could go on and on and on....

[johnBob]

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

One of the things that men can do or offer as men in this world is to keep other bad men at bay for woman and children. Like a lion who walks the perimeter of his territory. This is done by a lot of men in this world because it’s part of their natures if they are true to it. Sadly, there are too many bad men in the world who let power and authority or possessiveness get to them and believe they are superior to women and women are indeed less than a man. This is pretty obvious.

What many dismiss from Sarah’s words in the absolute truth for many women around the world and I’m really not sure why people are so quick to dismiss it. It is not truth for all but it’s truth for enough.

Men are great and needed and I hope men can realize this in a way that uplifts those around them and makes the world a better place. This is male leadership!

Wise comments.

Yes it is horrific that many women suffer like they do-it's also horrific that many men suffer like they do.

I can't solve world peace; sometimes we get too caught up in trying to solve the entire globe's problem when really the world as we know it is pretty flat.

Are women where you at being sold as sex slaves? Are men where you are being forced into slave labor camps? No, so why not glory in that. Why not glory in the example being set where you are at and let the rest of the world figure out their own problems. Why not simply enjoy what you have? Why not figure out why it is that your culture where you live on your flat earth is different than somebody else's culture on their flat earth section? Why not try to protect your own portion rather than try and solve the rest of the world?

If you have heaven on earth where you are at the rest of the world will eventually try to emulate it rather than you having to force your will on the rest of the world.

[Connie561]

I am open minded about the changes to the temple ceremonial clothing. I may buy a new robe if it is easier to get on and it not fall off my shoulder.

[johnBob]

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

Yes, actually millions of fathers have sold their daughters to be sex-slaves, even to so-called husbands. In patriarchal cultures where the women have no rights, the husbands can rape their wives as much as they want. In fact, there are millions of fathers who rape and molest their daughters. You are believing a fantasy that it is "not so bad" to help you feel better.

India's slave brides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulRaK1i6qo

Father sells his child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIAtLQxWhLo

Fathers selling daughers in Yemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmP66xGpjGo

I could go on and on and on....

Do you live in India? Do you live in Yemen? No you don't.

You want to solve their problems-why don't you go over there an live among them and teach them how to live properly. Because I'm absolutely positive that it's ALL THE MENS FAULT IN YEMEN. Yeah, the women over there-nah, they couldn't possibly have anything to do with it-they couldn't possibly stop it-they are just so incredibly weak and fragile that they have absolutely no ability to influence their culture, their husbands, their society for something else.

Maybe before trying to tell me how bad men are-maybe, just maybe you should go over there and live among the women-who absolutely could change things if they wanted to . . .unless women really are as weak and pitiful as feminists like to claim men think they are!

I don't care about them-I don't. My world isn't the entire global population of 8 billion individuals. My world is my wife, my kids, my local community, my religion.

None of what happens in Yemen or India has the LEAST BIT OF RELEVANCE to me-I don't care. I'm not going to solve the world's problems, I don't care to solve the world's problems.

You more than welcome to attempt to be Christ . . .but you're going to fail. Good luck!

[Rick Grimes]

Like the ability to kill their offspring?

Yeah that's a great win for God.

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

Yes, actually millions of fathers have sold their daughters to be sex-slaves, even to so-called husbands. In patriarchal cultures where the women have no rights, the husbands can rape their wives as much as they want. In fact, there are millions of fathers who rape and molest their daughters. You are believing a fantasy that it is "not so bad" to help you feel better.

India's slave brides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulRaK1i6qo

Father sells his child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIAtLQxWhLo

Fathers selling daughers in Yemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmP66xGpjGo

I could go on and on and on....

You equate men with everything wrong in the world. At every post, you are posting horrific things about men. Are there bad guys out there, absolutely. Are there bad women? Yes. I could post stories of women who murdered their children. What good would that do though? What would it prove?

The patriarchal order is one established by God and is the mode of government in the Heavens. No matter how much the feminists cry about it or how shrill their voice gets complaining about it, this will never change. You might as well complain about water being wet for all the good it would do. Please understand that there is good and bad with all people, and some bad apples does not disqualify God's government.

[johnBob]

I am open minded about the changes to the temple ceremonial clothing. I may buy a new robe if it is easier to get on and it not fall off my shoulder.

Same here, this isn't a yuge issue for me-it's just another sign that time is speeding up!

[johnBob]

I will start a thread to open your eyes to reality. Women across the world are viewed as property, to be sold as young brides, sex slaves, sex workers, servants to pagan priests, it really is sickening what many women in these heathen and Islamic nation's have had to endure. And even if a woman is lucky enough to find a kind husband, she still must have permission from him to do just about anything.

I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

Yes, actually millions of fathers have sold their daughters to be sex-slaves, even to so-called husbands. In patriarchal cultures where the women have no rights, the husbands can rape their wives as much as they want. In fact, there are millions of fathers who rape and molest their daughters. You are believing a fantasy that it is "not so bad" to help you feel better.

India's slave brides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulRaK1i6qo

Father sells his child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIAtLQxWhLo

Fathers selling daughers in Yemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmP66xGpjGo

I could go on and on and on....

Sarah, you are damaged or something that you might need counseling for. You equate men with everything wrong in the world. At every post, you are posting horrific things about men. Are there bad guys out there, absolutely. Are there bad women? Yes. I could post stories of women who murdered their children. What good would that do though? What would it prove?

The patriarchal order is one established by God and is the mode of government in the Heavens. No matter how much the feminists cry about it or how shrill their voice gets complaining about it, this will never change. You might as well complain about water being wet for all the good it would do. Please understand that there is good and bad with all people, and some bad apples does not disqualify God's government.

I'm really quite sad if something horrific happened to Sarah-if it did it shouldn't be like that.

More likely a lot of this modern feminism stems from broken homes. Young women raised in single-mother households who are then told at every turn by modern education, teachers, movies, t.v. "MEN ARE BAD".

These poor girls grow up with no dad so they have no clue what a good father can do. They have never seen a good father model proper behavior towards their mother. They have never seen the depth of love that a man can have for his wife. They have never seen a husband or a father who would give everything he had to protect his wife or his children.

All they have ever known is a mother who then at every opportunity gets to backstab, hate on and tell her children how much of a miserable low-down good for nothing horrible, evil MAN their father was. That message gets repeated over and over and over.

Is it any wonder young women today are lost?

[mtm411]

Heavenly Mother is equal to Heavenly Father, they've been exalted as 2 halves of a couple. Elohim is a plural term. Do we know why more isn't revealed about Heavenly Mother? No. But we do know she has power in the priesthood just like all women are given in the temple. We also have a faith that believes not everything has been revealed yet. I believe our squabbles about gender and who is in charge are partly why we aren't ready for more information.

Also, mothers do preside over their sons. I don't know why Heavenly Mother (an exalted being) would be any different.
You don't need one sex to lead the other, you need them to learn to lead together in harmony, which is what this entire gospel is about. Do you really think our Heavenly Parents have arguments about being in charge? Can you imagine Heavenly Father pulling rank? We won't be exalted unless we rise together as a couple in harmony.

Adam only leads Eve in the Terrestrial world in the temple.