LDS Freedom Forum

JK4Woods wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:07 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 1:45 pm Although the changes to the endowment to be more PC Feminist absolutely turn my stomach and make me hold my nose, this latest change to the way the clothing is made doesn't bother me at all. If it cuts costs, improves affordability for all, while still not changing the endowment, who cares? Some people need to calm down on these. We shouldn't care if the little plastic thing in the hat is no longer included. It always looked terrible anyways. Also I will not miss the little string used to attach the hat to the robe. That thing was always annoying. We need to stop nit picking ANYTHING the church does in the name of improvement. Some things really are an improvement. That little string on the hats isn't going to make the experience any less rewarding. The changing of the covenants, that's a different story though.....

The string was there for only one purpose, to keep the robe from sliding off a sloped shoulder guy.
Husky Scandanavians with square shoulders didn't need it, sloped shoulder farmers sure did, else the robe would keep sliding off down the arm.
There was not other reason for it... Any other symbolisim is made up.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:27 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:12 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:08 pm

The feminist changes in our society was the adversary's response to what he knew was coming and not the other way around.

D&C 113:9 What are we to understand by Zion loosing herself from the bands of her neck; 2d verse?
10 We are to understand that the scattered remnants are exhorted to return to the Lord from whence they have fallen; which if they do, the promise of the Lord is that he will speak to them, or give them revelation. See the 6th, 7th, and 8th verses. The bands of her neck are the curses of God upon her, or the remnants of Israel in their scattered condition among the Gentiles.

All curses must be removed before the Millennium can begin including Eve's curses. There's a lot more to it, but just a little seed for you to consider.

"All curses must be removed" That's just feminists blather and justification in order to justify the Temple changes.

It has no basis in Doctrine or in Scripture that before the 2nd Coming, this will happen. The world hasn't changed simply because we live in 2020-men are still men and women are still women.

But you are more than free to believe some new age feminists tripe that "all curses" will be removed prior to the 2nd Coming.

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted. We're talking about the vast majority of history where woman must be subject to her husband for shelter and basic needs. We take this for granted because it's been gone here in our country - but it is still present all over the world. My in laws are on a mission to India. My father in law was asked by an investigator how often he beats his wife.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

More feminist propaganda^

The "curse" will eventually be lifted, but only that of having to physically suffer through child birth. That's a result of this imperfect world. Furthermore, yes, women wont rely on their husbands for sustenance since we wont have to worry about working a 9 to 5 to eat, live, and sleep.
As to women holding th priesthood, utter rubbish. Women holding equal power with their husbands, again, rubbish. We dont see it in the heavens now with Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. What, is Heavenly Father also going to be more woke in the hereafter? Is Heavenly Mother under a curse too? Why dont we pray to our Mother Goddess?? If she is equal in authority and power to our Heavenly Father, than she holds more power and authority than Jesus Christ. Where are our temples to Her?

Just silly what some feminists posit for "knowledge". SMH

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:35 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:27 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:12 pm

"All curses must be removed" That's just feminists blather and justification in order to justify the Temple changes.

It has no basis in Doctrine or in Scripture that before the 2nd Coming, this will happen. The world hasn't changed simply because we live in 2020-men are still men and women are still women.

But you are more than free to believe some new age feminists tripe that "all curses" will be removed prior to the 2nd Coming.

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted. We're talking about the vast majority of history where woman must be subject to her husband for shelter and basic needs. We take this for granted because it's been gone here in our country - but it is still present all over the world. My in laws are on a mission to India. My father in law was asked by an investigator how often he beats his wife.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

More feminist propaganda^

The "curse" will eventually be lifted, but only that of having to physically suffer through child birth. That's a result of this imperfect world. Furthermore, yes, women wont rely on their husbands for sustenance since we wont have to worry about working a 9 to 5 to eat, live, and sleep.
As to women holding th priesthood, utter rubbish. Women holding equal power with their husbands, again, rubbish. We dont see it in the heavens now with Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. What, is Heavenly Father also going to be more woke in the hereafter? Is Heavenly Mother under a curse too? Why dont we pray to our Mother Goddess?? If she is equal in authority and power to our Heavenly Father, than she holds more power and authority than Jesus Christ. Where are our temples to Her?

Just silly what some feminists posit for "knowledge". SMH

Might the fact Heavenly Mother has been obscured have something to do with the curses of the Garden? Maybe?

Are just men or are both men and women told they will rule and reign over the House of Israel? Do you now what Heavenly Mother's role is? Does she have authority over you Rick Grimes? Do you know what her dominion and power is? No?

Sarah wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 5:21 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 4:10 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 4:00 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:58 pm
I'm sure a father would want his daughter sold as a sex slave-right!

And who are the ones who go fight wars? Men across the world have been viewed as body shields and simply muscle and cannon fodder for wars too. Men have been brutally maimed, pillaged and yes raped by other men too.

And your point is?

If you want me to agree that some belief systems are worse than others-yes I will agree with you. I'll agree with you Islam is horrible, I'm not going to agree with you that for all time from Adam down to present men did nothing to protect women than women were always and forever have been abused by men.

Dinah? Dinah was raped and the sons of Israel killed the entire town for raping their Sister.

Men have in the past and still do today protect their wives, sisters, daughters from other despicable men. If you ignore that-well good luck.

How many fathers had "shot-gun" weddings in the past to ensure if some man took advantage of his daughter the man would do right by her?

Yes, actually millions of fathers have sold their daughters to be sex-slaves, even to so-called husbands. In patriarchal cultures where the women have no rights, the husbands can rape their wives as much as they want. In fact, there are millions of fathers who rape and molest their daughters. You are believing a fantasy that it is "not so bad" to help you feel better.

India's slave brides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulRaK1i6qo

Father sells his child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIAtLQxWhLo

Fathers selling daughers in Yemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmP66xGpjGo

I could go on and on and on....

Sarah, you are damaged or something that you might need counseling for. You equate men with everything wrong in the world. At every post, you are posting horrific things about men. Are there bad guys out there, absolutely. Are there bad women? Yes. I could post stories of women who murdered their children. What good would that do though? What would it prove?

The patriarchal order is one established by God and is the mode of government in the Heavens. No matter how much the feminists cry about it or how shrill their voice gets complaining about it, this will never change. You might as well complain about water being wet for all the good it would do. Please understand that there is good and bad with all people, and some bad apples does not disqualify God's government.

I don't equate all evil with men. I know lots of evil women, and women sell their daughters to be sex-slaves as well. I have thousands of posts on this forum and started many threads, and you go check that out what I've written and then tell me that all I do is post horrific things about men. I think that you guys don't like to hear anything bad about men. It makes you feel threatened.

You think I am arguing against men presiding. I am not. I like to point out that women will not have to deal with men who exercise unrighteous dominion in the next life, and that women will someday enjoy all the same freedoms and privileges as men. I believe that husband and wife should counsel together, not simply wife obey husband. Those who preside righteously realize that this isn't about obedience to man, it's about obedience to God, and that a wife has just as much right to hear God's opinion as her husband.

Women have the disadvantage in this life that we are weaker in body and in our ability to produce children. It is part of Eve's punishment, because that weakness necessitates and encourages that men will rule over her. It will be different in the eternities in that we won't have these physical limitations. And as Eliza Snow pointed out, those who are destined to rule must first be ruled. If men still preside that's fine with me. They will understand that to preside is to make sure their wife is heard and happy and they are all in agreement, and he will be completely selfless. All those who gain exaltation will be one with Christ. I can be one with Christ. If I am one with Christ and my husband is one with Christ, we are all equal.

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:25 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:35 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:27 pm

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted. We're talking about the vast majority of history where woman must be subject to her husband for shelter and basic needs. We take this for granted because it's been gone here in our country - but it is still present all over the world. My in laws are on a mission to India. My father in law was asked by an investigator how often he beats his wife.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

More feminist propaganda^

The "curse" will eventually be lifted, but only that of having to physically suffer through child birth. That's a result of this imperfect world. Furthermore, yes, women wont rely on their husbands for sustenance since we wont have to worry about working a 9 to 5 to eat, live, and sleep.
As to women holding th priesthood, utter rubbish. Women holding equal power with their husbands, again, rubbish. We dont see it in the heavens now with Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. What, is Heavenly Father also going to be more woke in the hereafter? Is Heavenly Mother under a curse too? Why dont we pray to our Mother Goddess?? If she is equal in authority and power to our Heavenly Father, than she holds more power and authority than Jesus Christ. Where are our temples to Her?

Just silly what some feminists posit for "knowledge". SMH

Might the fact Heavenly Mother has been obscured have something to do with the curses of the Garden? Maybe?

Are just men or are both men and women told they will rule and reign over the House of Israel? Do you now what Heavenly Mother's role is? Does she have authority over you Rick Grimes? Do you know what her dominion and power is? No?

Her role is not to have dominion, that’s Father Adam. And soon Christ with be given dominion (not one of his wives) from the Ancient of Days (Father Adam).

The pattern is plain in scripture and revelation and is the structure in heaven.

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:25 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:35 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 2:27 pm

lol is this meant as satire or ... I'm guessing not.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Second Coming. I am beginning to feel like lately folks are debating with someone else and accidentally quoting me lol

OK sorry *ahem*

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

What will that look like when woman is no longer subject to man ruling over her? Now, that doesn't mean he won't still preside. Sarah posted some amazing quotes - which should really be their own thread - about our church leaders discussing these aspects of the curse that absolutely be lifted. We're talking about the vast majority of history where woman must be subject to her husband for shelter and basic needs. We take this for granted because it's been gone here in our country - but it is still present all over the world. My in laws are on a mission to India. My father in law was asked by an investigator how often he beats his wife.

The changes in the endowment reflect these changes. Naturally, men who use any degree of compulsion in their marriage will not be happy about this change - not saying anything about you here JohnBob as it seems you didn't even chew before spitting this out.

Secondly - Brigham Young taught the women of his day will one day become Eves of their own worlds. Now, will those Eves fall first because they're less than men? Will they fall first because they are less wise or less advanced or will they fall at all (there's another thread on that. The answer is yes. They will fall so that man may be.)

They will fall first. This isn't a contest between the genders but all about roles. And when they near the end of their telestial probation, the Lord will plant little seeds to prepare his people for what's coming. Some will melt. Some will endure. Some will see.

More feminist propaganda^

The "curse" will eventually be lifted, but only that of having to physically suffer through child birth. That's a result of this imperfect world. Furthermore, yes, women wont rely on their husbands for sustenance since we wont have to worry about working a 9 to 5 to eat, live, and sleep.
As to women holding th priesthood, utter rubbish. Women holding equal power with their husbands, again, rubbish. We dont see it in the heavens now with Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. What, is Heavenly Father also going to be more woke in the hereafter? Is Heavenly Mother under a curse too? Why dont we pray to our Mother Goddess?? If she is equal in authority and power to our Heavenly Father, than she holds more power and authority than Jesus Christ. Where are our temples to Her?

Just silly what some feminists posit for "knowledge". SMH

Might the fact Heavenly Mother has been obscured have something to do with the curses of the Garden? Maybe?

Are just men or are both men and women told they will rule and reign over the House of Israel? Do you now what Heavenly Mother's role is? Does she have authority over you Rick Grimes? Do you know what her dominion and power is? No?

Her role is not to have dominion, that’s Father Adam. And soon Christ with be given dominion (not one of his wives) from the Ancient of Days (Father Adam).

The pattern is plain in scripture and revelation and is the structure in heaven.

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 19th, 2020, 12:38 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 5:21 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 4:10 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 4:00 pm

Yes, actually millions of fathers have sold their daughters to be sex-slaves, even to so-called husbands. In patriarchal cultures where the women have no rights, the husbands can rape their wives as much as they want. In fact, there are millions of fathers who rape and molest their daughters. You are believing a fantasy that it is "not so bad" to help you feel better.

India's slave brides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VulRaK1i6qo

Father sells his child
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIAtLQxWhLo

Fathers selling daughers in Yemen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmP66xGpjGo

I could go on and on and on....

Sarah, you are damaged or something that you might need counseling for. You equate men with everything wrong in the world. At every post, you are posting horrific things about men. Are there bad guys out there, absolutely. Are there bad women? Yes. I could post stories of women who murdered their children. What good would that do though? What would it prove?

The patriarchal order is one established by God and is the mode of government in the Heavens. No matter how much the feminists cry about it or how shrill their voice gets complaining about it, this will never change. You might as well complain about water being wet for all the good it would do. Please understand that there is good and bad with all people, and some bad apples does not disqualify God's government.

I don't equate all evil with men. I know lots of evil women, and women sell their daughters to be sex-slaves as well. I have thousands of posts on this forum and started many threads, and you go check that out what I've written and then tell me that all I do is post horrific things about men. I think that you guys don't like to hear anything bad about men. It makes you feel threatened.

You think I am arguing against men presiding. I am not. I like to point out that women will not have to deal with men who exercise unrighteous dominion in the next life, and that women will someday enjoy all the same freedoms and privileges as men. I believe that husband and wife should counsel together, not simply wife obey husband. Those who preside righteously realize that this isn't about obedience to man, it's about obedience to God, and that a wife has just as much right to hear God's opinion as her husband.

Women have the disadvantage in this life that we are weaker in body and in our ability to produce children. It is part of Eve's punishment, because that weakness necessitates and encourages that men will rule over her. It will be different in the eternities in that we won't have these physical limitations. And as Eliza Snow pointed out, those who are destined to rule must first be ruled. If men still preside that's fine with me. They will understand that to preside is to make sure their wife is heard and happy and they are all in agreement, and he will be completely selfless. All those who gain exaltation will be one with Christ. I can be one with Christ. If I am one with Christ and my husband is one with Christ, we are all equal.

Well God is an exalted MAN... so obedience to and exalted MAN is ok. Also if you didn’t know Christ is a MAN.

Women enjoying the same freedoms and privileges as men? I hope you aren’t confusing those with the roles of men because if you are you should never have to have the stress and worry and difficulty that men go through to keep the women and children protected and provided for etc.

Roles and gender don’t change they are eternal.