LDS Freedom Forum

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

Stahura wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:31 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=52384

There is a thread talking about a time when Oliver told Joseph he was wrong about someone being able to receive a remission of sins without baptism, and he got the Whitmers on board.
Joseph convinces them all otherwise.

Im not arguing for anything here, just posting relevant information using a story most people have never heard of.

That thread does become a long discussion that you can read through if you want. It contains anything I’d say here tbh. Don’t have the energy to repeat things lately

Original_Intent wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 12:03 am not only that, there are hundreds of millions of people (out of 8 billion, mind) who are far ahead of the majority of LDS in eternal progression.

Also, where much is given, much is required does come into play. But also, there are many who have applied what they have to an extent that puts most Christians and LDS to shame.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:49 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

3rd Nephi 16

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth (believing that, "unless you are a member, you aren't eligible to be exalted like us"), and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders (Alma 36:14), and priestcrafts (Alma 1:16), and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:47 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

did we - as "Gentiles", really receive "the fulness" ? and are we as a church living it today. ?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:55 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:49 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

3rd Nephi 16

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth (believing that, "unless you are a member, you aren't eligible to be exalted like us"), and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders (Alma 36:14), and priestcrafts (Alma 1:16), and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

That's a great scripture Tyler. Your subtext is not at all accurate though. When did the message become, "you can be saved without entrance into the Kingdom"? I'm beginning to understand why you needed to go home. It would be unbecoming a missionary preaching that you dont need the first 4 principles and ordinances of the Gospel to enter into the C kingdom. The church of the devil already preaches that, and in a lot of cases, preaches that baptism isnt even necessary.

I'm not sure what your ultimate goal is, but I think you are walking a dangerous path. The moment you start thinking that salvation can be found outside the Lord's Kingdom, if nurtured in your heart, it wont be long before you venture towards that direction.

Chip wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:48 pm I just watched the first video. Awesome and beautiful!!!! Thanks, Tyler.

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:15 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:55 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:49 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

3rd Nephi 16

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth (believing that, "unless you are a member, you aren't eligible to be exalted like us"), and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders (Alma 36:14), and priestcrafts (Alma 1:16), and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

That's a great scripture Tyler. Your subtext is not at all accurate though. When did the message become, "you can be saved without entrance into the Kingdom"? I'm beginning to understand why you needed to go home. It would be unbecoming a missionary preaching that you dont need the first 4 principles and ordinances of the Gospel to enter into the C kingdom. The church of the devil already preaches that, and in a lot of cases, preaches that baptism isnt even necessary.

I'm not sure what your ultimate goal is, but I think you are walking a dangerous path. The moment you start thinking that salvation can be found outside the Lord's Kingdom, if nurtured in your heart, it wont be long before you venture towards that direction.

Luke 17
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 18
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:01 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:47 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

did we - as "Gentiles", really receive "the fulness" ? and are we as a church living it today. ?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

You do realize that this scripture is referencing the entire world collectively? Meaning that the majority of people will not accept the fullness of the gospel. Heck, I think we will eventually lose half the membership when things like the law of consecration or plural marriage is reinstituted, or even before that, if we continue to deny gay marriage or women ordained to the priesthood. But putting our own internal differences aside, our membership in the church, even if you count all 16 million (inactives and all), we are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the worlds inhabitants. So yes, the world will collectively reject the fullness of the gospel. Your argument that we will reject the gospel is aimed at the wrong people. We are in the service of our God advancing His gospel, despite the continued rejection and attacks we face from the world.

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:44 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:01 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:47 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:23 pm If they aren't LDS, then they havent accepted the fullness of the gospel. How can post this and still have a testimony of the restoration?

did we - as "Gentiles", really receive "the fulness" ? and are we as a church living it today. ?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

You do realize that this scripture is referencing the entire world collectively? Meaning that the majority of people will not accept the fullness of the gospel. Heck, I think we will eventually lose half the membership when things like the law of consecration or plural marriage is reinstituted, or even before that, if we continue to deny gay marriage or women ordained to the priesthood. But putting our own internal differences aside, our membership in the church, even if you count all 16 million (inactives and all), we are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the worlds inhabitants. So yes, the world will collectively reject the fullness of the gospel. Your argument that we will reject the gospel is aimed at the wrong people. We are in the service of our God advancing His gospel, despite the continued rejection and attacks we face from the world.

sorry, but I think YOU need to realize, that like most Mormons, you think that the scriptures apply to everyone but yourself.
As Gentiles, we are included, and they apply to us more than anyone.
Because the gospel was restored to us, we some how think we are excluded from the scriptures that are negative and condemn.
Actually, because we have (had) the restored gospel, we are more responsible than anyone,
and the Lord holds us more accountable.
"Where much is given, much is required"
D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

is not the Law of consecration part pf "the fulness" ?
and did the saints receive it ? NO they did not. "and cast out from the land of their inheritance"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539&p=994044&hili ... on#p994044

D&C 105
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;

D&C 101
1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance—
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;

6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings,
and contentions, and envyings, and strifes,
and lustful and covetous desires among them;
therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

D&C 105:
2 "Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.
3 But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;
5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.
6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffe

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:37 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:15 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:55 am

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 11:49 pm

3rd Nephi 16

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth (believing that, "unless you are a member, you aren't eligible to be exalted like us"), and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders (Alma 36:14), and priestcrafts (Alma 1:16), and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

That's a great scripture Tyler. Your subtext is not at all accurate though. When did the message become, "you can be saved without entrance into the Kingdom"? I'm beginning to understand why you needed to go home. It would be unbecoming a missionary preaching that you dont need the first 4 principles and ordinances of the Gospel to enter into the C kingdom. The church of the devil already preaches that, and in a lot of cases, preaches that baptism isnt even necessary.

I'm not sure what your ultimate goal is, but I think you are walking a dangerous path. The moment you start thinking that salvation can be found outside the Lord's Kingdom, if nurtured in your heart, it wont be long before you venture towards that direction.

Luke 17
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 18
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

You can quote scripture all day long, but you wrest them to your own destruction. You know those scriptures dont support what you are preaching. We cant just "feel saved" and be saved. Furthermore, Christ is merely commenting about His Kingdom (of heaven) not being here on Earth. There are two Kingdoms, the Kingdom of God (i.e. the Lords true church) and the Kingdom of Heaven which is not here but close to Kolob. In that moment when he spoke as such, he was merely commenting that His kingdom where He reigns supreme, is not on Earth.

You walk a dangerous path young man. Please pray for the truth, not your own "truth". Ask if Joseph Smith and the BOM are true? Ask If we currently have the true priesthood here in the church today. If the answer you recieve is yes, then please set aside your belief that salvation can be found elsewhere, because Christ said that only those who enter into the gate will find life everlasting, and few there be that find it. While broad is the way that leadeth to damnation and many there be that go that way. Every person who chooses to follow their own God or imagination of it, will go down that path.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:59 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:44 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:01 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:47 am
did we - as "Gentiles", really receive "the fulness" ? and are we as a church living it today. ?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

You do realize that this scripture is referencing the entire world collectively? Meaning that the majority of people will not accept the fullness of the gospel. Heck, I think we will eventually lose half the membership when things like the law of consecration or plural marriage is reinstituted, or even before that, if we continue to deny gay marriage or women ordained to the priesthood. But putting our own internal differences aside, our membership in the church, even if you count all 16 million (inactives and all), we are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the worlds inhabitants. So yes, the world will collectively reject the fullness of the gospel. Your argument that we will reject the gospel is aimed at the wrong people. We are in the service of our God advancing His gospel, despite the continued rejection and attacks we face from the world.

sorry, but I think YOU need to realize, that like most Mormons, you think that the scriptures apply to everyone but yourself.
As Gentiles, we are included, and they apply to us more than anyone.
Because the gospel was restored to us, we some how think we are excluded from the scriptures that are negative and condemn.
Actually, because we have (had) the restored gospel, we are more responsible than anyone,
and the Lord holds us more accountable.
"Where much is given, much is required"
D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

is not the Law of consecration part pf "the fulness" ?
and did the saints receive it ? NO they did not. "and cast out from the land of their inheritance"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539&p=994044&hili ... on#p994044

D&C 105
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;

D&C 101
1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance—
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;

6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings,
and contentions, and envyings, and strifes,
and lustful and covetous desires among them;
therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

D&C 105:
2 "Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.
3 But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;
5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.
6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffe

Yeah, I'm not a gentile. I'm a direct descendant of Israel. Second, I dont for one second think the scriptures dont apply to me. But your attack on the church is not serving the Lord's purposes, but another dark Lord's. When the Lord chastens His church, it will be through His prophet. The children of Israel didnt like how Moses was leading them, and it didnt go well with them either. That's how I keep myself from repeating their mistake by looking to how they murmured, they thought themselves better than the Lord's chosen leaders, and they thought salvation could be found in other places. So please, lay off the drama.

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:59 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:44 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:01 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 6:47 am
did we - as "Gentiles", really receive "the fulness" ? and are we as a church living it today. ?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

You do realize that this scripture is referencing the entire world collectively? Meaning that the majority of people will not accept the fullness of the gospel. Heck, I think we will eventually lose half the membership when things like the law of consecration or plural marriage is reinstituted, or even before that, if we continue to deny gay marriage or women ordained to the priesthood. But putting our own internal differences aside, our membership in the church, even if you count all 16 million (inactives and all), we are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the worlds inhabitants. So yes, the world will collectively reject the fullness of the gospel. Your argument that we will reject the gospel is aimed at the wrong people. We are in the service of our God advancing His gospel, despite the continued rejection and attacks we face from the world.

sorry, but I think YOU need to realize, that like most Mormons, you think that the scriptures apply to everyone but yourself.
As Gentiles, we are included, and they apply to us more than anyone.
Because the gospel was restored to us, we some how think we are excluded from the scriptures that are negative and condemn.
Actually, because we have (had) the restored gospel, we are more responsible than anyone,
and the Lord holds us more accountable.
"Where much is given, much is required"
D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

is not the Law of consecration part pf "the fulness" ?
and did the saints receive it ? NO they did not. "and cast out from the land of their inheritance"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539&p=994044&hili ... on#p994044

D&C 105
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;

D&C 101
1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance—
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;

6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings,
and contentions, and envyings, and strifes,
and lustful and covetous desires among them;
therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

D&C 105:
2 "Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.
3 But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;
5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.
6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffe

Yeah, I'm not a gentile. I'm a direct descendant of Israel. Second, I dont for one second think the scriptures dont apply to me. But your attack on the church is not serving the Lord's purposes, but another dark Lord's. When the Lord chastens His church, it will be through His prophet. The children of Israel didnt like how Moses was leading them, and it didnt go well with them either. That's how I keep myself from repeating their mistake by looking to how they murmured, they thought themselves better than the Lord's chosen leaders, and they thought salvation could be found in other places. So please, lay off the drama.

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 8:55 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:59 am

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:44 am

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 7:01 am

You do realize that this scripture is referencing the entire world collectively? Meaning that the majority of people will not accept the fullness of the gospel. Heck, I think we will eventually lose half the membership when things like the law of consecration or plural marriage is reinstituted, or even before that, if we continue to deny gay marriage or women ordained to the priesthood. But putting our own internal differences aside, our membership in the church, even if you count all 16 million (inactives and all), we are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the worlds inhabitants. So yes, the world will collectively reject the fullness of the gospel. Your argument that we will reject the gospel is aimed at the wrong people. We are in the service of our God advancing His gospel, despite the continued rejection and attacks we face from the world.

sorry, but I think YOU need to realize, that like most Mormons, you think that the scriptures apply to everyone but yourself.
As Gentiles, we are included, and they apply to us more than anyone.
Because the gospel was restored to us, we some how think we are excluded from the scriptures that are negative and condemn.
Actually, because we have (had) the restored gospel, we are more responsible than anyone,
and the Lord holds us more accountable.
"Where much is given, much is required"
D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

is not the Law of consecration part pf "the fulness" ?
and did the saints receive it ? NO they did not. "and cast out from the land of their inheritance"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53539&p=994044&hili ... on#p994044

D&C 105
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;

D&C 101
1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance—
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;

6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings,
and contentions, and envyings, and strifes,
and lustful and covetous desires among them;
therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

D&C 105:
2 "Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.
3 But behold, they have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;
4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;
5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself.
6 And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be, by the things which they suffe

Yeah, I'm not a gentile. I'm a direct descendant of Israel. Second, I dont for one second think the scriptures dont apply to me. But your attack on the church is not serving the Lord's purposes, but another dark Lord's. When the Lord chastens His church, it will be through His prophet. The children of Israel didnt like how Moses was leading them, and it didnt go well with them either. That's how I keep myself from repeating their mistake by looking to how they murmured, they thought themselves better than the Lord's chosen leaders, and they thought salvation could be found in other places. So please, lay off the drama.

and as far as, as you say " the Lord's chosen leaders" you, being one of the Lord's chosen people, just because you are a proud member of the church, as you are boasting to be;
why don't you get down off your pride horse and "lay off the drama".

Why as members do we always feel that the sun revolves around us.
Just because we have the restored gospel.
That, just as the children of Abraham said: "we are the children of Abraham that God has covenanted with and that he would bless his seed forever."
Us members say -
"We have the restored gospel and it will
never be taken from the earth again."

Matthew 3:9 (KJV)
9 And think not to say within yourselves,
We have Abraham to our father:
for I say unto you, that God is able
of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

It won't be taken from the earth again.
The Lord will take it FROM us.
---------------------------------------------------------
We had our chance.
The gospel and the power and authority is now
going back to the House of Israel

"I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."

3 Nephi 16:10,11,12
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.

Have we forgotten the covenant the Lord made with
The House of Israel ? YES ! but The Lord hasn't.
The Lord WILL remember it !

2 Nephi 29
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.

As a natural branch of the olive tree (Romans 11:24), the Jews brought forth the Bible in its purity (1 Nephi 14:23) long before the Gentile church removed from it “many plain and precious parts” and “many covenants of the Lord” (1 Nephi 13:20–40). Of the Gentiles, God thus says, “O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles? O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people. Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?” (2 Nephi 29:4–6).

Because this scripture specifically addresses God’s people “in Zion” (2 Nephi 28:21, 24), it is the end-time descendants of Ephraim who have come through the Gentile lineages who come under this condemnation. A revelation given through the prophet Joseph Smith affirms this: “Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion” (D&C 84:54–58).

Isaiah, in fact, informs us that “a scourge and judgment” will be poured out on many of the children of Zion who are of the tribe of Ephraim. In an entire chapter devoted to Ephraim and its prophets, Isaiah says, “A hail shall sweep away your false refuge and waters flood the hiding place.
Your covenant with death shall prove void, your understanding with Sheol have no effect: when the flooding scourge sweeps through, you shall be overrun by it. As often as it sweeps through, you shall be seized by it: morning after morning it shall sweep through, by day and by night [it shall seize you]; it shall cause terror merely to hear word of it” (Isaiah 28:17–19; cf. D&C 5:19). For those Ephraimites who believe his truth, on the other hand, God “lays in Zion a stone” (Isaiah 28:16; emphasis added)—an end-time seer—as an antidote to the flooding scourge that overruns the wicked.