Plates of Laman

[Robin Hood]

Lately I have been thinking about the story of Nephi. His vision, his willingness to obey his father, his killing of Laban and obtaining the brass plates, his heroics in making a bow and obtaining food for everyone, his boat building... and so on.
It occured to me that this is all very Nephi-centric. He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!
I wonder what the Plates of Laman would have to say about it.
Does anyone else feel sympathy toward, or empathy with, Laman/Lemuel?

[mahalanobis]

What about Zoram? "These people killed my boss (lost my job), stole his stash (taking even his sword and his clothes), deceived me, pushed me down and tackled me, kidnapped me, forced me to leave my homeland and journey into the desert, and.... Well in the end I married a girl way younger than me so I guess it turned out okay for me. Adieu."

[Zathura]

Lately I have been thinking about the story of Nephi. His vision, his willingness to obey his father, his killing of Laban and obtaining the brass plates, his heroics in making a bow and obtaining food for everyone, his boat building... and so on.
It occured to me that this is all very Nephi-centric. He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!
I wonder what the Plates of Laman would have to say about it.
Does anyone else feel sympathy toward, or empathy with, Laman/Lemuel?

Have you seen Wicked?

Laman and Lemuel are basically the witch. They were good all along.

[JK4Woods]

Lately I have been thinking about the story of Nephi. His vision, his willingness to obey his father, his killing of Laban and obtaining the brass plates, his heroics in making a bow and obtaining food for everyone, his boat building... and so on.
It occured to me that this is all very Nephi-centric. He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!
I wonder what the Plates of Laman would have to say about it.
Does anyone else feel sympathy toward, or empathy with, Laman/Lemuel?

Well... both Laman and Lemuel are portrayed to be totally enmeshed in their corner of (pre-) Babylonian lifestyle.
Meaning, they sure liked their big home, good neighborhood, fancy chariots, prestige, stature among their peers, solidly middle-class bordering on wealthy lifestyle. That they were obedient to their Dad and marched out into the wilderness leaving everything behind gives them some gold stars. (Who wouldn't have grumbled about losing their whole lifestyle, and career aspirations and comfortable life for camping in the arid desert?).

Once they got to the promised land, of course they would remember the ease of life they had mapped out before them in the society they left, and probably had a bit of second generation laziness built into their characters and upbringing.

Getting drunk on a boat (think cruise ship with enforced idleness, and not enough entertainment) and being pissed at one's (self-righteous?) pest of a little brother... I think I've experienced every emotion these guys went through.

The curious part is why they were so hard headed and stubborn when they had decent enough spiritual experiences as to effect permanent change in ones heart, yet these two reverted back to the victim mentality.

[BeNotDeceived]

Lately I have been thinking about the story of Nephi. His vision, his willingness to obey his father, his killing of Laban and obtaining the brass plates, his heroics in making a bow and obtaining food for everyone, his boat building... and so on.
It occured to me that this is all very Nephi-centric. He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!
I wonder what the Plates of Laman would have to say about it.
Does anyone else feel sympathy toward, or empathy with, Laman/Lemuel?

Global OTEC Resources, a marine energy startup from Cornwall, has received an EU grant of £ 140,000 to build a prototype of their invention.Founders Dan Grech and Hayden Ashfield are in talks with the Maldives government and resorts on the island about delivering power after the process.

Currently, 96 percent of the energy produced in the Maldives comes from fossil fuels and only 4 percent from renewable sources such as wind and solar energy. The British company says the ships could initially be deployed in seven Maldive island resorts to replace diesel generators.

“We are convinced of the viability of OTEC in the Maldives,” said Ibrahim Nashid, president of Renewable Energy Maldives. “OTEC is the ideal energy solution that can supply basic charge energy and fresh water throughout the year in the Maldives.”

Founders Dan Grech and Hayden Ashfield are in talks with the Maldives government and resorts on the island about delivering power after the process. The heat extraction technology behind the ship was first developed in the 1880s by French scientists Jacques D’Arsonval, but was perfected in the 70s and 80s. It is called Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC) and the great innovation of Global Resources is to place it on a floating ship.

The ship draws freezing water from a depth of 3200 ft using a cold water pipe and combines it with the hot surface water to drive a turbine that produces electricity. “These islands no longer have to depend on expensive diesel imports to deliver their energy,” said Mr. Grech.
“We are around the corner from a huge empowerment of renewable energy revolution and we are delighted that the Maldives wants to pioneer this with us”.

It is called Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC) and the great innovation of Global Resources is to place it on a floating ship
They start their process in the Maldives because it is the ‘perfect location’ because of sitting on an old underwater volcano, good weather all year round and a large tourist economy.

“These three points mean that we can reduce our costs much faster than anywhere else in the world,” said Mr. Grech. “Our first floating prototype for the Maldives takes 18 months to complete the design and construction. ‘We are currently in the capital Male’ in negotiations with various parties about the final locations. It has kindled a bidding war, because many islands like to be driven by the ocean first! “ Global sources say it has much greater environmental benefits than fossil fuels or nuclear energy and is fully renewable.

The ship draws freezing water from a depth of 3200 ft using a cold water pipe and combines it with the hot surface water to power a turbine that produces electricity

They say it also avoids land use problems associated with other sustainable technologies such as solar, wind, biomass and hydropower.
HOW DOES THE OCEAN THERMAL ENERGY CONVERSION WORK?
OTEC works by taking heat absorbed by the oceans from the sun and then converting it into electricity.

Below about 3,000 ft of ocean water is ice cold – about 39.2 F and OTEC uses the difference between this and much warmer surface water.
• Hot water is used to make a liquid with a boiling point of -22F
• The vapor of the liquid drives a turbine that is attached to an electric generator
• Turbine exhaust vapor is condensed and cooled by water pumped from the cold water source below
• The condensed vapor is then returned to the boiler to complete a cycle that generates electricity 24 hours a day throughout the year
SOURCE: Worldwide OTEC sources


Unlike wind and solar energy, Global resources say that OTEC technology can generate electricity 24 hours a day throughout the year. The company says that a part of the tropical ocean around 38 million square miles absorbs a quadrillion mega joule of energy from the sun every day. This is about the same as the energy from burning 170 billion barrels of oil per day.

According to Mr Grech, even a small part of this thermal energy can supply small countries and coastal communities with warmer climates.
He says the longer term goal is to be able to deliver wider power as they are able to mass-produce the ships.

The company has attracted private investments from the UK and internationally to further develop its technology. They have also completed a number of feasibility studies, including a peer-reviewed partnership with the University of Exeter. “The temperature difference around the Maldives is a good omen for OTEC applications that have great potential to meet the energy demand of the archipelago,” said professor Lars Johanning of the University of Exeter, who reviewed the work.

HOW MANY WILL SEA LEVELS IN THE FOLLOWING CENTURIES?
Global sea level could rise to 2300 as much as 1.2 meters (4 feet), even if we reach the 2015 Paris climate targets, scientists have warned.
The long-term change will be driven by a thaw of ice from Greenland to Antarctica, which will have to pull the coastlines again.

Sea level rise threatens cities from Shanghai to London, to low-lying parts of Florida or Bangladesh, and to entire nations such as the Maldives. It is vital that we reduce emissions as quickly as possible to prevent even greater increases, a team of researchers led by Germany said in a new report. By 2300, the report predicted that sea levels would rise by 0.7 – 1.2 meters, even if nearly 200 countries fully met the targets of the 2015 Paris Agreement. The objectives of the agreements include the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions to zero in the second half of this century. The ocean level will rise inexorably, because existing industrial gases that retain heat in the atmosphere will linger, causing more ice to melt.

In addition, water naturally expands as it heats above four degrees Celsius (39.2 ° F). Every five years after 2020 in the peak of global emissions would mean an additional 20 centimeters (8 inch) rise in sea level by 2300. “Sea level is often communicated as a very slow process that you can’t do much about … but the next 30 years really matter,” says lead author Dr. Matthias Mengel from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Potsdam, Germany, told Reuters. None of the nearly 200 governments signing the Paris agreements is on track to deliver on its promises.

2021 looks to be the year their modest investment yields fruit. Fresh water, puts the icing on the cake. How many times has the solution been,

to build a boat.

What difference doth a underwater volcano make ?

Vessel , but not boat. dbnp

[Dave62]

No, I have no sympathy for them. They tried to murder their father and brother. And no, Nephi's account is not a propaganda piece. 2 Nephi 4 suggests Nephi saw himself in real terms.

[Robin Hood]

No, I have no sympathy for them. They tried to murder their father and brother. And no, Nephi's account is not a propaganda piece. 2 Nephi 4 suggests Nephi saw himself in real terms.

I'm not sure they really tried to murder Nephi or Lehi. The wording is ambiguous and can be interpreted in more than one way.
The only murdering that actually took place was when Nephi killed Laban.
Prisons are filled with people who say God told them to kill someone.

[ajax]

He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!

Yeah. Yet he murdered and stole Laban's property, all because a utilitarian voice spoke in his head.

I thought this read interesting.
“The Spirit That I Have Seen May Be The Devil”–Nephi’s Slaying of Laban
https://rationalfaiths.com/spirit-seen- ... ing-laban/

[Robin Hood]

He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!

Yeah. Yet he murdered and stole Laban's property, all because a utilitarian voice spoke in his head.

I thought this read interesting.
“The Spirit That I Have Seen May Be The Devil”–Nephi’s Slaying of Laban
https://rationalfaiths.com/spirit-seen- ... ing-laban/

Excellent article.
Thank you.

[Alaris]

This would make for great satire.

The plates of Laban may be too much though haha

[h_p]

Does anyone else feel sympathy toward, or empathy with, Laman/Lemuel?

I think if we gave an honest look at Laman, Lemuel, and ourselves, we would identify a lot more with them, than with Nephi. They weren't wicked from the beginning--they were waivering somewhere in the middle, at least for a while. There were times when they were righteous, and times when they weren't. They endured a ton of trials that would probably have broken most of us. Eventually, they spiritually descended, of course, but I think they held out as long as they could, given the circumstances.

[nightlight]

He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!

Yeah. Yet he murdered and stole Laban's property, all because a utilitarian voice spoke in his head.

I thought this read interesting.
“The Spirit That I Have Seen May Be The Devil”–Nephi’s Slaying of Laban
https://rationalfaiths.com/spirit-seen- ... ing-laban/

What a stupid article. Lol

Your assuming the plates were labans because he had them. Lol possession is NOT 9/10 of the law TO GOD.

The plates belong to God.

Lol ridiculous..... "I believe in the Book of Mormon...I just think Nephi is a liar/murderer"

You must see how retarded that logic is

mur·der
/ˈmərdər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

So.....

------------------

Let's be straight up, bro.... don't be shy
Do you believe the Book of Mormon even happend?

[inho]

This would make for great satire.

Such satire has been written: The Lost Plates of Laman.
Has anyone written this book by Bob Lewis? I haven't.

EDIT: Here is another such satire: The Aluminum Plates of Laman

[nightlight]

No, I have no sympathy for them. They tried to murder their father and brother. And no, Nephi's account is not a propaganda piece. 2 Nephi 4 suggests Nephi saw himself in real terms.

I'm not sure they really tried to murder Nephi or Lehi. The wording is ambiguous and can be interpreted in more than one way.
The only murdering that actually took place was when Nephi killed Laban.
Prisons are filled with people who say God told them to kill someone.

If you really believe this B.S. you don't even deserve to touch the Book of Mormon.

[nightlight]

The Book of Mormon is a pillar to the work of Jesus Christ.

Deny this work to your own destruction.

I hate when Mormon take this sacred work and spit on it

[inho]

The Book of Mormon is a pillar to the work of Jesus Christ.

Deny this work to your own destruction.

I hate when Mormon take this sacred work and spit on it

Chill. I don't think anyone here is denying the power the book has to bring people unto Christ.

It is clear that in a book written by mere mortals and edited by other imperfect humans there are aspects that tell us about the thought process of the authors. A good example is the Nephite propaganda in Mosiah 10:12-17

12 They were a wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, believing in the tradition of their fathers, which is this—Believing that they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem because of the iniquities of their fathers, and that they were wronged in the wilderness by their brethren, and they were also wronged while crossing the sea;

13 And again, that they were wronged while in the land of their first inheritance, after they had crossed the sea, and all this because that Nephi was more faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord—therefore he was favored of the Lord, for the Lord heard his prayers and answered them, and he took the lead of their journey in the wilderness.

14 And his brethren were wroth with him because they understood not the dealings of the Lord; they were also wroth with him upon the waters because they hardened their hearts against the Lord.

15 And again, they were wroth with him when they had arrived in the promised land, because they said that he had taken the ruling of the people out of their hands; and they sought to kill him.

16 And again, they were wroth with him because he departed into the wilderness as the Lord had commanded him, and took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, for they said that he robbed them.

17 And thus they have taught their children that they should hate them, and that they should murder them, and that they should rob and plunder them, and do all they could to destroy them; therefore they have an eternal hatred towards the children of Nephi.

Verse 13 makes it clear that this is a Nephite view of Lamanites, not an accurate description by an objective observer. Lamanite themself wouldn't talk about Nephi's faith.

Similarly, something of Nephi's views has likely ended up in his writings.

[nightlight]

The Book of Mormon is a pillar to the work of Jesus Christ.

Deny this work to your own destruction.

I hate when Mormon take this sacred work and spit on it

Chill. I don't think anyone here is denying the power the book has to bring people unto Christ.

It is clear that in a book written by mere mortals and edited by other imperfect humans there are aspects that tell us about the thought process of the authors. A good example is the Nephite propaganda in Mosiah 10:12-17

12 They were a wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, believing in the tradition of their fathers, which is this—Believing that they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem because of the iniquities of their fathers, and that they were wronged in the wilderness by their brethren, and they were also wronged while crossing the sea;

13 And again, that they were wronged while in the land of their first inheritance, after they had crossed the sea, and all this because that Nephi was more faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord—therefore he was favored of the Lord, for the Lord heard his prayers and answered them, and he took the lead of their journey in the wilderness.

14 And his brethren were wroth with him because they understood not the dealings of the Lord; they were also wroth with him upon the waters because they hardened their hearts against the Lord.

15 And again, they were wroth with him when they had arrived in the promised land, because they said that he had taken the ruling of the people out of their hands; and they sought to kill him.

16 And again, they were wroth with him because he departed into the wilderness as the Lord had commanded him, and took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, for they said that he robbed them.

17 And thus they have taught their children that they should hate them, and that they should murder them, and that they should rob and plunder them, and do all they could to destroy them; therefore they have an eternal hatred towards the children of Nephi.

Verse 13 makes it clear that this is a Nephite view of Lamanites, not an accurate description by an objective observer. Lamanite themself wouldn't talk about Nephi's faith.

Similarly, something of Nephi's views has likely ended up in his writings.

Tighten up.

You can look at it as propaganda... it doesn't mean anything though *sigh*

In verse 13 he is talking to the people who will one day read this work.
In verse 13 he is speaking of the reality of the situation.
When people act in wrong way....most of the time they're ignorant how why they are acting this was.
The truth is not relative.

THE BOOK OF MORMON IS NOT A BOOK OF OPINION

The modern academic mormon lol lol lol *gag*

Do you believe the Book of Mormon to be a true historical account?

[nightlight]

prop·a·gan·da
/ˌpräpəˈɡandə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

[nightlight]

BEHOLD ^^^^^^^^ the results of Zion sleeping with the Whore



You guys piss me off.

[Robin Hood]

BEHOLD ^^^^^^^^ the results of Zion sleeping with the Whore



You guys piss me off.

Clearly something's rattled your cage mate.

[abijah`]

[ajax]

He is clearly the good guy and the hero according to, well.... him!

Yeah. Yet he murdered and stole Laban's property, all because a utilitarian voice spoke in his head.

I thought this read interesting.
“The Spirit That I Have Seen May Be The Devil”–Nephi’s Slaying of Laban
https://rationalfaiths.com/spirit-seen- ... ing-laban/

What a stupid article. Lol

Your assuming the plates were labans because he had them. Lol possession is NOT 9/10 of the law TO GOD.

The plates belong to God.

Lol ridiculous..... "I believe in the Book of Mormon...I just think Nephi is a liar/murderer"

You must see how retarded that logic is

mur·der
/ˈmərdər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

So.....

------------------

Let's be straight up, bro.... don't be shy
Do you believe the Book of Mormon even happend?

Calm down sis, calm down.

1-Not my article, not my thoughts. So speaking to me as if it were, is, well, stupid.

2-I like and am open to alternative views, so when I read RH's OP, I almost immediately thought of this article I read years ago. I thought he would enjoy it, and apparently, he did. You see sis, some of us aren't afraid to entertain alternative views. Nor do we get our panties in a wad over it. If such things immediately make you flame-throw, well, perhaps this room isn't for you.

[nightlight]

I understand what's going to happen to us and this country for taking the Book of Mormon lightly.

This rhetoric is propagating actions/thoughts that will lead to our eventual death and destruction.

View my reaction as hyperbolic....or as some internal fault....but I'm telling you guys, THIS BOOK IS NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH.

This is a sacred work. Better men than us gave their life so this work could come to us.
I love Nephi. I don't like seeing people I admire crap on his name.

If you guys were part of the opposition....I wouldn't feel this way. WE ARE SUPPOSE TO BRING THIS WORK TO THE WORLD....

If you come to the conclusion that Nephi is a murderer......you are spitting in the face of the Father,Son and Holy Ghost imo

"put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. "

[Robin Hood]

Any modern court of law hearing the case would convict Nephi of murder. Indeed, in the strictest legal definition of the term he did commit murder, as did Moses when he killed the Egyptian.
Had Nephi defended himself by saying God told him to do it the best he could have hoped for is to be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure in a high security mental institution.

But none of this is really the point. My object was to try and see things from another angle. Perception is reality as they say, and Laman and Lemuel no doubt perceived the whole episode very differently to Nephi, but we only have Nephi's account... of his perception. I wonder what Laman's take on the whole thing would have looked like?

The posted article did however make an interesting point which I hadn't considered previously and which I believe is worthy of note. The Nephites, descended from the righteous Nephi were eventually destroyed by the Lamanites. Laman's descendants survived, Nephi's didn't. Interesting. And despite all of his heroics etc, God showed Nephi in vision what awaited his descendants and that, in effect, ultimately the whole dynastical enterprise would fail.

[mahalanobis]

"perception is reality"

Is it though?

I'm not trying to attack or defend. Just tossing out a passive question off-the-cuff.