Personal revelation and coming home from mission

[johnBob]

Oh so you saw it but you denied it. Some deny truth and just want to self-justify in their own vain imaginations. Good luck!

Okay smart guy

Hey man, you're the one who seems pretty smart-don't you remember you told me to shhhhhhh-real Christlike for someone who's supposedly had the 2nd fire.

@Durzan @iwritestuff @Brian I'm not getting baited into this with this person again who has decided to make the same comments that got him banned before , declaring this here and now. Ignoring, I'll be good this time!

Play the victim-but your own words deny it-you started off by "shhhhing" me. Or don't you remember? A nice apology would do-but I don't think that's forthcoming.

[Zathura]

Okay smart guy

Hey man, you're the one who seems pretty smart-don't you remember you told me to shhhhhhh-real Christlike for someone who's supposedly had the 2nd fire.

@Durzan @iwritestuff @Brian I'm not getting baited into this with this person again who has decided to make the same comments that got him banned before , declaring this here and now. Ignoring, I'll be good this time!

Play the victim-but your own words deny it-you started off by "shhhhing" me. Or don't you remember? A nice apology would do-but I don't think that's forthcoming.

Welcome back

[johnBob]

Hey man, you're the one who seems pretty smart-don't you remember you told me to shhhhhhh-real Christlike for someone who's supposedly had the 2nd fire.

@Durzan @iwritestuff @Brian I'm not getting baited into this with this person again who has decided to make the same comments that got him banned before , declaring this here and now. Ignoring, I'll be good this time!

Play the victim-but your own words deny it-you started off by "shhhhing" me. Or don't you remember? A nice apology would do-but I don't think that's forthcoming.

Welcome back

Okay, whatever. I thought you were ignoring . . .

[John Tavner]

Much of what you've said about a baptism of fire is true-yet God wouldn't send you home from a mission; he'd tell you to help others while you are on a mission.

Nope-something(s) happened on your mission to which you said-I'm done. And then you asked God, "I'm done, I want to go home", and you believe God said "yeap, sure, go home, quit being a missionary in a foreign land". Nah, I don't buy it-your story does not fall in-line with the pattern of righteous people who have talked to God and understand His voice.

One can not teach others how to receive if they ahve not received themselves. It is a testimony of Christ - the first. THe second testimony is the second comforter. When one receives the Gift, the Lord increases Charity in their lives. It is an actual change of being. One can return to old ways, but hte Lord is so merciful and if we continue to submit the Gift of Charity increases dramatically. We become love, because that is what Christ is. Yes, sin is still called out, but it is called out to teach people to come to Christ for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

If it's a requirement that all must receive the 2nd baptism before being a missionary then everyone should come home.

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

[Zathura]

Much of what you've said about a baptism of fire is true-yet God wouldn't send you home from a mission; he'd tell you to help others while you are on a mission.

Nope-something(s) happened on your mission to which you said-I'm done. And then you asked God, "I'm done, I want to go home", and you believe God said "yeap, sure, go home, quit being a missionary in a foreign land". Nah, I don't buy it-your story does not fall in-line with the pattern of righteous people who have talked to God and understand His voice.

One can not teach others how to receive if they ahve not received themselves. It is a testimony of Christ - the first. THe second testimony is the second comforter. When one receives the Gift, the Lord increases Charity in their lives. It is an actual change of being. One can return to old ways, but hte Lord is so merciful and if we continue to submit the Gift of Charity increases dramatically. We become love, because that is what Christ is. Yes, sin is still called out, but it is called out to teach people to come to Christ for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

If it's a requirement that all must receive the 2nd baptism before being a missionary then everyone should come home.

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

Idk if you’ve realized yet, but you’ve discussed this stuff already with this poster AT LENGTH. Just in case you don’t want to rehash. Otherwise , rehash to your hearts content

[Rick Grimes]

This thread got derailed quick

[Zathura]

This thread got derailed quick

Hah yeah, kids these days..

[johnBob]

Much of what you've said about a baptism of fire is true-yet God wouldn't send you home from a mission; he'd tell you to help others while you are on a mission.

Nope-something(s) happened on your mission to which you said-I'm done. And then you asked God, "I'm done, I want to go home", and you believe God said "yeap, sure, go home, quit being a missionary in a foreign land". Nah, I don't buy it-your story does not fall in-line with the pattern of righteous people who have talked to God and understand His voice.

One can not teach others how to receive if they ahve not received themselves. It is a testimony of Christ - the first. THe second testimony is the second comforter. When one receives the Gift, the Lord increases Charity in their lives. It is an actual change of being. One can return to old ways, but hte Lord is so merciful and if we continue to submit the Gift of Charity increases dramatically. We become love, because that is what Christ is. Yes, sin is still called out, but it is called out to teach people to come to Christ for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

If it's a requirement that all must receive the 2nd baptism before being a missionary then everyone should come home.

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

[johnBob]

One can not teach others how to receive if they ahve not received themselves. It is a testimony of Christ - the first. THe second testimony is the second comforter. When one receives the Gift, the Lord increases Charity in their lives. It is an actual change of being. One can return to old ways, but hte Lord is so merciful and if we continue to submit the Gift of Charity increases dramatically. We become love, because that is what Christ is. Yes, sin is still called out, but it is called out to teach people to come to Christ for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

If it's a requirement that all must receive the 2nd baptism before being a missionary then everyone should come home.

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

Idk if you’ve realized yet, but you’ve discussed this stuff already with this poster AT LENGTH. Just in case you don’t want to rehash. Otherwise , rehash to your hearts content

So now you're going to use surrogates to attack me-typical victim mentality. Can't take the heat, so they get out of the kitchen all the while yelling from the living room-"he's starting a fire" . ... kids these days.

[Zathura]

This thread got derailed quick

Hah yeah, kids these days..

In case it’s not clear, this was a self-deprecating joke. This is my fault

[Believing Joseph]

My actions were against the words of the prophet. But my actions were in line with God’s will.

President Romney once said: “I assure you, however, that the spirit of the Lord will never direct a person to take a position in opposition to the counsel of the Presidency of His Church.”

I am here to say this is not true.

It seems like you have experienced some things which have caused you to question whether the teachings of the leaders of the LDS church can be trusted. I figure that, sooner or later, you'll have to make a decision about whether you believe that:

Russel M. Nelson, etc., are the Lord's prophets, but the Lord has told me not to follow them in some matters.

OR

These men are not prophets at all.

The former position is often a transient. At some point you'll need to reevaluate the beliefs you were raised with and see which ones you still adhere to. From your defense of reincarnation in the other thread, it seems that you have already began to do so.

So put some serious thought into whether your new belief system supports the notion that the Lord is presently at the helm of the LDS church. Without an answer to that question, all this debate about personal revelation versus what the prophet said will lead nowhere.

[Zathura]

My actions were against the words of the prophet. But my actions were in line with God’s will.

President Romney once said: “I assure you, however, that the spirit of the Lord will never direct a person to take a position in opposition to the counsel of the Presidency of His Church.”

I am here to say this is not true.

It seems like you have experienced some things which have caused you to question whether the teachings of the leaders of the LDS church can be trusted. I figure that, sooner or later, you'll have to make a decision about whether you believe that:

Russel M. Nelson, etc., are the Lord's prophets, but the Lord has told me not to follow them in some matters.

OR

These men are not prophets at all.

The former position is often a transient. At some point you'll need to reevaluate the beliefs you were raised with and see which ones you still adhere to. From your defense of reincarnation in the other thread, it seems that you have already began to do so.

So put some serious thought into whether your new belief system supports the notion that the Lord is presently at the helm of the LDS church. Without an answer to that question, all this debate about personal revelation versus what the prophet said will lead nowhere.

I personally don’t think that needs to be considered at all, for now.

What this brother seeks is the Holy Spirit, to be born of God. This is what he should find. Afterwards he can look wherever the Holy Ghost directs .

[John Tavner]

One can not teach others how to receive if they ahve not received themselves. It is a testimony of Christ - the first. THe second testimony is the second comforter. When one receives the Gift, the Lord increases Charity in their lives. It is an actual change of being. One can return to old ways, but hte Lord is so merciful and if we continue to submit the Gift of Charity increases dramatically. We become love, because that is what Christ is. Yes, sin is still called out, but it is called out to teach people to come to Christ for it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

If it's a requirement that all must receive the 2nd baptism before being a missionary then everyone should come home.

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

Right, but until you've had the Lord tell you to "not visit" someone or to "walk around in an area for almost an hour" or to "move across the country where you don't know anyone and it makes no sense for you to give up all you ahve now" Or to "leave jerusalem because it is wicked" it might not make sense. Yet each one of those events has occurred (with the exception of jerusalem). to me. There are many more. I cna't tell you how many times the Lord is like nah, don't vist that person, they aren't home - ok. Or "hey you're kinda like a doer and because you won't listen to me if I were to tell you to just sit here for a while, I'm gonna keep leading you in circles like a horse until you finally chill out and hten you will meet the person you need to meet at the exact time in the exact moment as if you were walking that way in the perfect way to say these exact words in the right moment to help prevent that person from committing suicide or to lift them up and let them know that I love them because they aren't listening to my voice, so I will use my voice in you" Or I'm gonna lead you across the country and tell you to move to random apartment buildings becaue I want to see if you are actually going to do whatever I ask you to do" Then at the end of all that moving, when you still aren't happy and can't figure out why nothing is working despite you following hte SPirit, I'm gonna show you how to have a broken heart and contrite Spirit where you will cry out to me and then I will baptize you with fire and the Holy Ghost, because you showed at all costs that you ahd a contrite spirit - you were willind to do ALL that I asked, but you didn't have a broken heart until that final moment when you cried out to me for help realizing you couldn't do it yourself and you needed me to make you righteous not these works for it is only by me you can be saved and it took you until now to figure it out."

Those are just a few of my experiences, that is why I tend to believe Tylerdurden. I'm actually ahppy for him because he is learning it at a much faster rate than I did. God bless him and I hope it blesses his life. And because it sounds like he did it by consecrating that action to the Lord, the Lord will bless it for his benefit meaning that if one day he finds out it wasn't the Lord, his heart will break and he will learn a lesson. Better to learn that lesson now than later, but i truly believe he was following the Lord's/Spirit's counsel.

[johnBob]

If it's a requirement that all must receive the 2nd baptism before being a missionary then everyone should come home.

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

Right, but until you've had the Lord tell you to "not visit" someone or to "walk around in an area for almost an hour" or to "move across the country where you don't know anyone and it makes no sense for you to give up all you ahve now" Or to "leave jerusalem because it is wicked" it might not make sense. Yet each one of those events has occurred (with the exception of jerusalem). to me. There are many more. I cna't tell you how many times the Lord is like nah, don't vist that person, they aren't home - ok. Or "hey you're kinda like a doer and sense you won't listen to me if I were to tell you to just sit here for a while, I'm gonna keep leading you in circles like a horse until you finally chill out and hten you will meet the person you need to meet at the exact time in the exact moment as if you were walking that way in the perfect way to say these exact words in the right moment to help prevent that person from committing suicide or to lift them up and let them know that I love them because they aren't listening to my voice, so I will use my voice in you" Or I'm gonna lead you across the country and tell you to move to random apartment buildings becaue I want to see if you are actually going to do whatever I ask you to do" Then at the end of all that moving, when you still aren't happy and can't figure out why nothing is working despite you following hte SPirit, I'm gonna show you how to have a broken heart and contrite Spirit where you will cry out to me and then I will baptize you with fire and the Holy Ghost, because you showed at all costs that you ahd a contrite spirit - you were willind to do ALL that I asked, but you didn't have a broken heart until that final moment when you cried out to me for help realizing you couldn't do it yourself."

Those are just a few of my experiences, that is why I tend to believe Tylerdurden. I'm actually ahppy for him because he is learning it at a much faster rate than I did. God bless him and I hope it blesses his life. And because it sounds like he did it by consecrating that action to the Lord, the Lord will bless it for his benefit meaning that if one day he finds out it wasn't the Lord, his heart will break and he will learn a lesson. Better to learn that lesson now than later, but i truly believe he was following the Lord's/Spirit's counsel.

I've had the same experiences, but those are much different. They don't involve you setting yourself above others in the Church nor in breaking a commandment. Those are experiences given to you within the proper realm that you are given to operate it-your individual sphere.

God didn't tell you while you were on your mission-"hey you should go travel 3 areas across and go visit this one Sister." Learning to distinguish between proper thoughts and inspirations from God and that which is not of God is a challenge.

Too often, way, way too often we simply teach to "Follow the Spirit"-except we don't teach the other half of that, "Follow the Right Spirit", that there are OTHER spirits which can influence us and you have to learn how to follow the Holy one- or out of all the possible spirits that can influence you, you need to follow the Holy One.

And the only way you can truly know what the Holy One is or is not-is to have whatever spirit it is that is talking to you back up what they are saying by God's Word.

There are actually very few individuals who's ENTIRE lives are guided entirely by the Holy Spirit-those guys are generally regarded as Prophets-as in the prophets in the Scriptures.

We should all be striving for it-but the vast, vast majority of us are going to be listening to the wrong spirit many, many times in our lives. Unfortunately, we don't even teach this is possible and we don't even teach the mechanism by which one can determine if one is listening to the wrong spirit. So I don't blame people for sometimes running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to figure out which spirit is from God and which one is not.

I hope you can understand, while I agree with you, I also disagree. I've had too many experiences where I really, really, really thought I was following the Spirit but it lead to some major problem.

So it is my cautionary tale that too much of "Follow the Spirit" without guidance and council as to how to know which spirit you are listening to is fraught with MUCH peril.

It is the mechanisms by which all manner of falsehoods are entering into the Church. Many, many, many people are giving their testimonies and bearing their "truth" that God through His Holy "Spirit" testified to them that they are homosexual, that they should date the same-sex, that they should leave their spouse, that they should do whatever.

And if this is not stopped in the Church-if people are not taught HOW to discern between the Spirit of the Holy One and evil, seductive spirits, then we have only seen the beginning and you are going to see such tremendous chaos inside the Church-you'll be stunned.

This idea that whatever you do as long as you bear solemn testimony it's from God then it's from God and we should "just believe" is a tremendous falsehood and it will burn a lot of people.

[Dlight]

[/quote]

Things like baptism of water washes away sins, and the sacrament makes you clean. I heard the leadership including an area 70 teach the missionaries that the number of baptisms was the most important thing. We were teaching that salvation is in the temple, and we were denying the power of God. I saw a lot of pride. We would boast in our success as missionaries. We would boast about how our church was best to other people. Service projects (even the ones done by the mission overall) were done without charity and focused on pushing the name of the church out to others, and not to fully help others. Everything had nothing to do with Christ. I read through the Book of Mormon and saw all of the prophecies come to pass in our day in our church. I saw the missionaries put down others from other faiths and mock and laugh at humble Christians. I saw bickering. I saw missionaries leave the beggars on the street and pass them by as if they were nobody. I saw lessons and discussions without the spirit. I saw class separation. I saw missionaries without the gift of the Holy Ghost. I saw humble repentant sinners denied baptism because they couldn’t abandon smoking. I saw self righteousness. I saw idol worship. Pride and prejudice abounded. I saw the Doctrine of Christ was changed and added upon. “All is well in Zion” was the common theme among the mission.

[/quote]

I wonder if that's a reason why I didn't get to go on a mission. When I first came back to the church I did experience a baptism by fire, I was totally on fire and I had the spirit helping me speak and teach, and I was having success with the local missionaries and serving in my ward. My repentance was sincere, but a good part of my testimony hinged on the church being true and the leaders being always inspired in all things.

When I applied to go on my mission at age 24, it went all the way to the first presidency. I guess the fact that I had taken away on my youth visited strip clubs, lived with my one girlfriend for a while, and filled for bankruptcy made a mission inappropriate for me. But I wonder if it had more to do with how much I wouldn't have liked it.

They instead gave me a calling working in the temple after I got my endowments. I really enjoyed serving in the baptistry.

In hindsight a mission would have been to much, I already was seeing much of the cultural and doctrinal misfocus that you and the OP mentioned.

Thankfully god will show us to follow the spirit, he can lead us.

[John Tavner]

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

Right, but until you've had the Lord tell you to "not visit" someone or to "walk around in an area for almost an hour" or to "move across the country where you don't know anyone and it makes no sense for you to give up all you ahve now" Or to "leave jerusalem because it is wicked" it might not make sense. Yet each one of those events has occurred (with the exception of jerusalem). to me. There are many more. I cna't tell you how many times the Lord is like nah, don't vist that person, they aren't home - ok. Or "hey you're kinda like a doer and sense you won't listen to me if I were to tell you to just sit here for a while, I'm gonna keep leading you in circles like a horse until you finally chill out and hten you will meet the person you need to meet at the exact time in the exact moment as if you were walking that way in the perfect way to say these exact words in the right moment to help prevent that person from committing suicide or to lift them up and let them know that I love them because they aren't listening to my voice, so I will use my voice in you" Or I'm gonna lead you across the country and tell you to move to random apartment buildings becaue I want to see if you are actually going to do whatever I ask you to do" Then at the end of all that moving, when you still aren't happy and can't figure out why nothing is working despite you following hte SPirit, I'm gonna show you how to have a broken heart and contrite Spirit where you will cry out to me and then I will baptize you with fire and the Holy Ghost, because you showed at all costs that you ahd a contrite spirit - you were willind to do ALL that I asked, but you didn't have a broken heart until that final moment when you cried out to me for help realizing you couldn't do it yourself."

Those are just a few of my experiences, that is why I tend to believe Tylerdurden. I'm actually ahppy for him because he is learning it at a much faster rate than I did. God bless him and I hope it blesses his life. And because it sounds like he did it by consecrating that action to the Lord, the Lord will bless it for his benefit meaning that if one day he finds out it wasn't the Lord, his heart will break and he will learn a lesson. Better to learn that lesson now than later, but i truly believe he was following the Lord's/Spirit's counsel.

I've had the same experiences, but those are much different. They don't involve you setting yourself above others in the Church nor in breaking a commandment. Those are experiences given to you within the proper realm that you are given to operate it-your individual sphere.

God didn't tell you while you were on your mission-"hey you should go travel 3 areas across and go visit this one Sister." Learning to distinguish between proper thoughts and inspirations from God and that which is not of God is a challenge.

Too often, way, way too often we simply teach to "Follow the Spirit"-except we don't teach the other half of that, "Follow the Right Spirit", that there are OTHER spirits which can influence us and you have to learn how to follow the Holy one- or out of all the possible spirits that can influence you, you need to follow the Holy One.

And the only way you can truly know what the Holy One is or is not-is to have whatever spirit it is that is talking to you back up what they are saying by God's Word.

There are actually very few individuals who's ENTIRE lives are guided entirely by the Holy Spirit-those guys are generally regarded as Prophets-as in the prophets in the Scriptures.

We should all be striving for it-but the vast, vast majority of us are going to be listening to the wrong spirit many, many times in our lives. Unfortunately, we don't even teach this is possible and we don't even teach the mechanism by which one can determine if one is listening to the wrong spirit. So I don't blame people for sometimes running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to figure out which spirit is from God and which one is not.

You are absolutely right there are false spirits and sometimes we are deceived. THere is also a spirit of deception rampant in the church, but my guess and from what I've understood, most of that deception is form someone basing their choices off of "feelings" alone and not the still small voice. That being said, If we live our life in fear of deception though, then we know that hte Love of God is not in us because "perfect love casteth out all fear." We should be aware, but not let that being the fearing principle - we learn line upon line and precept upon precept.

Eventually you learn that God's word is the word He gives you 2 Nephi 33 - The Spirit will tell you all things which to do. John 14:26 and 1 John 2:27. It takes faith though - to trust. The Key is to have a pure heart by constantly wanting to "deny oneself" and "pick up our cross" Or in the book of Momron "becoming as a little child (a requirement before baptism and after).
I wasn't aware that going on a mission was a commandment.

On the MIssion the Spirit did teach me to teach women in houses without males though - and before any assumptions are made, I was not in the slightest attracted to them.

Aditionally, I'm not aware that going on a mission is a commandment. The commandment is only given AFTER we are converted if we apply the scriptures (using Peter as the example). I also do not see Tylerdurden as setting himself up as a light. He didn't say come follow me. He shared an experience that was impactful in life for him following the spirit - not any different than what one would hear in a testimony meeting in our church.

We are also taught that while few people have, followed the Spirit daily, ithat is not as it should be. Moses said that he would that all were prophets, we are taught repeatedly that we can all obtain what they had. Really the key comes down to denying ourselves and picking up our cross or daily crucifying hte flesh seeking the Lord's will. Much of our struggle comes from unbelief. WE don't BELIEVE we can follow the Spirit daily, so we don't. We might say "for them, but not us." This is the equivalent of the Israelites in the desert. saying No Moses, you talk to God, not us we fear what might happen. Our unbelief is what holds us back. The Book of Mormon is replete with examples on how to overcome the unbelief. I'm still overcoming some unbelief, but whe nI recongize it, the Lord in His mercy and grace overcomes it for me - when I believe, so my cry sometimes is "Lord help thou mine unbelief."

I'll share a story about unbelief. After I received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, for 2-3 yeaers I followed the Spirit almost daily, miracles happened often. Then something happened where I doubted and got angry and cursed God (I was a terrible Job at the time period). The Lord though in His mercy used that opportunity to break down false traditions. While my false traditions were being shattered, It also seemed the heavens were closed. I couldn't hear the voice of the Lord as well (because doubt had turned to unbelief). It hasn't been unitl the last year, that the voice has come back, but I lie, it hasn't been unitl the past year that I have heard the voice again, because it has alwasys been speaking, I just ignored it because I was too caught up in myself. Unbelief prevented me from accessing the Spirit - though it was already there. Unbelief made me walk in darkness. However, I glory in God in His tender mercies because he broke me down in this process and taught me even more about His love and atonement. He taught me how to love others more. He heard my prayers, I just didn't hear His answers. My unbelief cut me off. The clincher happened a few weeks ago, I was praying and trying to understand and hear the spirit, when the Lord brought to my memory what I was 10 years ago. I realized that had I just trusted, I would have never "not believed" that it was so difficult to hear the voice of hte Lord. I'd been doing it most of my life, but I didn't realize it. I realized how often the Lord had spoekn to me. I realized how much my own unbelief caused me to not hear. Now i udnerstand the process, now I can teach it because I know the how and whys, but it was there all along - except when I didn't believe - again that "unbelief" was me focusing on self, believing I coudln't hear the voice of the Lord because I wasn't worhty, or because I wasn't good enough, or because of any other reason. When the Lord tuaght me to finally cast that off, He opened my eyes and I began to see the mercy of hte Lord to a greater extent. Like I said, I still suffer from some unbelief, which is funny when it pops up cause I"m usually in my mind like "i believe that" the Lord tells me how and why I dont. Praise be to His name for guiding me continually. NOt me only but all His children. For this gift is available to all that come unto HIm because He is no repsecter of persons.

The scriptures do teach us though that we ALL can have our entire lives guided by teh Spirit - 1 John is one of the those books. It is beautiful.

[Zathura]

The fact that Church Leadership, especially bishops and stake presidents, will disqualify individuals from serving a mission for past transgressions that they've already repented of is sad to me. It only indicates that many misunderstand repentance and forgiveness.

[Zathura]

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

Right, but until you've had the Lord tell you to "not visit" someone or to "walk around in an area for almost an hour" or to "move across the country where you don't know anyone and it makes no sense for you to give up all you ahve now" Or to "leave jerusalem because it is wicked" it might not make sense. Yet each one of those events has occurred (with the exception of jerusalem). to me. There are many more. I cna't tell you how many times the Lord is like nah, don't vist that person, they aren't home - ok. Or "hey you're kinda like a doer and sense you won't listen to me if I were to tell you to just sit here for a while, I'm gonna keep leading you in circles like a horse until you finally chill out and hten you will meet the person you need to meet at the exact time in the exact moment as if you were walking that way in the perfect way to say these exact words in the right moment to help prevent that person from committing suicide or to lift them up and let them know that I love them because they aren't listening to my voice, so I will use my voice in you" Or I'm gonna lead you across the country and tell you to move to random apartment buildings becaue I want to see if you are actually going to do whatever I ask you to do" Then at the end of all that moving, when you still aren't happy and can't figure out why nothing is working despite you following hte SPirit, I'm gonna show you how to have a broken heart and contrite Spirit where you will cry out to me and then I will baptize you with fire and the Holy Ghost, because you showed at all costs that you ahd a contrite spirit - you were willind to do ALL that I asked, but you didn't have a broken heart until that final moment when you cried out to me for help realizing you couldn't do it yourself."

Those are just a few of my experiences, that is why I tend to believe Tylerdurden. I'm actually ahppy for him because he is learning it at a much faster rate than I did. God bless him and I hope it blesses his life. And because it sounds like he did it by consecrating that action to the Lord, the Lord will bless it for his benefit meaning that if one day he finds out it wasn't the Lord, his heart will break and he will learn a lesson. Better to learn that lesson now than later, but i truly believe he was following the Lord's/Spirit's counsel.

I've had the same experiences, but those are much different. They don't involve you setting yourself above others in the Church nor in breaking a commandment. Those are experiences given to you within the proper realm that you are given to operate it-your individual sphere.

God didn't tell you while you were on your mission-"hey you should go travel 3 areas across and go visit this one Sister." Learning to distinguish between proper thoughts and inspirations from God and that which is not of God is a challenge.

Too often, way, way too often we simply teach to "Follow the Spirit"-except we don't teach the other half of that, "Follow the Right Spirit", that there are OTHER spirits which can influence us and you have to learn how to follow the Holy one- or out of all the possible spirits that can influence you, you need to follow the Holy One.

And the only way you can truly know what the Holy One is or is not-is to have whatever spirit it is that is talking to you back up what they are saying by God's Word.

There are actually very few individuals who's ENTIRE lives are guided entirely by the Holy Spirit-those guys are generally regarded as Prophets-as in the prophets in the Scriptures.

We should all be striving for it-but the vast, vast majority of us are going to be listening to the wrong spirit many, many times in our lives. Unfortunately, we don't even teach this is possible and we don't even teach the mechanism by which one can determine if one is listening to the wrong spirit. So I don't blame people for sometimes running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to figure out which spirit is from God and which one is not.

You are absolutely right there are false spirits and sometimes we are deceived. THere is also a spirit of deception rampant in the church, but my guess and from what I've understood, most of that deception is form someone basing their choices off of "feelings" alone and not the still small voice. That being said, If we live our life in fear of deception though, then we know that hte Love of God is not in us because "perfect love casteth out all fear." We should be aware, but not let that being the fearing principle - we learn line upon line and precept upon precept.

Eventually you learn that God's word is the word He gives you 2 Nephi 33 - The Spirit will tell you all things which to do. John 14:26 and 1 John 2:27. It takes faith though - to trust. The Key is to have a pure heart by constantly wanting to "deny oneself" and "pick up our cross" Or in the book of Momron "becoming as a little child (a requirement before baptism and after).
I wasn't aware that going on a mission was a commandment.

On the MIssion the Spirit did teach me to teach women in houses without males though - and before any assumptions are made, I was not in the slightest attracted to them.

Aditionally, I'm not aware that going on a mission is a commandment. The commandment is only given AFTER we are converted if we apply the scriptures (using Peter as the example). I also do not see Tylerdurden as setting himself up as a light. He didn't say come follow me. He shared an experience that was impactful in life for him following the spirit - not any different than what one would hear in a testimony meeting in our church.

We are also taught that while few people have, followed the Spirit daily, ithat is not as it should be. Moses said that he would that all were prophets, we are taught repeatedly that we can all obtain what they had. Really the key comes down to denying ourselves and picking up our cross or daily crucifying hte flesh seeking the Lord's will. Much of our struggle comes from unbelief. WE don't BELIEVE we can follow the Spirit daily, so we don't. We might say "for them, but not us." This is the equivalent of the Israelites in the desert. saying No Moses, you talk to God, not us we fear what might happen. Our unbelief is what holds us back. The Book of Mormon is replete with examples on how to overcome the unbelief. I'm still overcoming some unbelief, but whe nI recongize it, the Lord in His mercy and grace overcomes it for me - when I believe, so my cry sometimes is "Lord help thou mine unbelief."

I'll share a story about unbelief. After I received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, for 2-3 yeaers I followed the Spirit almost daily, miracles happened often. Then something happened where I doubted and got angry and cursed God (I was a terrible Job at the time period). The Lord though in His mercy used that opportunity to break down false traditions. While my false traditions were being shattered, It also seemed the heavens were closed. I couldn't hear the voice of the Lord as well (because doubt had turned to unbelief). It hasn't been unitl the last year, that the voice has come back, but I lie, it hasn't been unitl the past year that I have heard the voice again, because it has alwasys been speaking, I just ignored it because I was too caught up in myself. Unbelief prevented me from accessing the Spirit - though it was already there. Unbelief made me walk in darkness. However, I glory in God in His tender mercies because he broke me down in this process and taught me even more about His love and atonement. He taught me how to love others more. He heard my prayers, I just didn't hear His answers. My unbelief cut me off. The clincher happened a few weeks ago, I was praying and trying to understand and hear the spirit, when the Lord brought to my memory what I was 10 years ago. I realized that had I just trusted, I would have never "not believed" that it was so difficult to hear the voice of hte Lord. I'd been doing it most of my life, but I didn't realize it. I realized how often the Lord had spoekn to me. I realized how much my own unbelief caused me to not hear. Now i udnerstand the process, now I can teach it because I know the how and whys, but it was there all along - except when I didn't believe - again that "unbelief" was me focusing on self, believing I coudln't hear the voice of the Lord because I wasn't worhty, or because I wasn't good enough, or because of any other reason. When the Lord tuaght me to finally cast that off, He opened my eyes and I began to see the mercy of hte Lord to a greater extent. Like I said, I still suffer from some unbelief, which is funny when it pops up cause I"m usually in my mind like "i believe that" the Lord tells me how and why I dont. Praise be to His name for guiding me continually. NOt me only but all His children. For this gift is available to all that come unto HIm because He is no repsecter of persons.

The scriptures do teach us though that we ALL can have our entire lives guided by teh Spirit - 1 John is one of the those books. It is beautiful.

Thank you for posting on this forum man, sincerely.

[cab]

I want to make it clear that the hard events of my mission were not an excuse to come home. I would have stayed out there and struggled a whole other year, or however long if that was what the Lord wanted. In fact, it was only a few months into my mission that I was questioning staying out. I asked and the Lord told me to stay, and that he would tell me when my “time here was over.” It wasn’t until a year out that the Lord told me it was time.

I was using this post to explain my story, to just let things out that have been bottled up so long, and to show what I understand in terms of following the spirit.

I imagine that you knew full well of the consequences of coming home early, especially how you would be judged within our Mormon culture. I imagine that the Lord speaking to you did not bring the warm emotional fuzzies that the majority of members conflate with the Spirit - on the contrary I imagine this may have been the most gut wrenching decision of your life... I commend you for your courage to seek out the voice of the Lord and be willing to follow it at all hazards. There is no greater and noble journey than the path towards becoming spiritually begotten, and I admire you for recognizing this at such a young age... It will be a lonely journey, but it kind of needs to be... Just ask anyone else who was willing to forsake all to come to know the Lord... God bless you dear Brother.

[Bronco73idi]

Personally I wouldn’t have written this until I have proof of being baptized by fire. Since you think you haven’t been baptized by fire, I would think you would have question what spirit you were hearing.

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

I didn’t serve a mission, I went into the US Navy.

Even though he has not experienced it yet, the scriptures are plain and he can take comfort in seeing them as they really are.
Yes, often people don’t see the scriptures for what they are until they’ve had their spiritual awakening, but others shed themselves of unbelief and this allows them to see things as they really are, even prior to their spiritual awakening.

Do you really think I don’t understand this concept? He has implied this in his story. It doesn’t fully answer Tyler’s dealings with the spirit. Im just bringing up the other possibility. I’m not saying he is wrong.

I’m saying, him coming here to talk about his decision to be a quitter before the miracle has come about is like praying loud and proud on the street corner.

Just trying to understand what you’re saying. This is what I understand so far, and correct me if I’m wrong.

I see you say there is a possibility that I was deceived by an evil spirit, because I won’t know for sure until I receive my baptism of fire? Because what the Lord told me is different that what church leaders have said, I could be wrong?

You call me a quitter and say I’m boasting?

You missed Matthew 19:12......

Did you quit?

Did you judge the mission as evil and you know better?

Who would want people to quit and find all the negativity they could for justification to quit?

Simple math too me.....

[Alexander]

That's all or nothing thinking. Perhaps though you are right.THough I can see the Lord using some for His benefit because of ignorance - which most are ignorant (I'm not using that as a pejorative, jsut a fact). Were I in Tylerdurden's shoes it would be really really difficult to teach when I know I lack. Those who teach in ignorance sometimes bring Jesus to those who will accept. See Paul when he rejoices that people are preaching CHrist in such a way so that he gets thrown in jail, but he rejoices because they are still preaching Christ. There are things I did in ignorance in my youth, that If I knew what I knew now and were in teh same situation I was, I would never do now because I would know I don't have the authority, that I thought I did. If I were in Tylerdurden's shoes, I would probably have done the same thing. Heck, there are things I used to teach a few years ago that I believe are true, but I won't teach it now, because I don't know, but I thought I did. I look back at my mission and regret most of what happened- the Lord was merciful and it taught me to follow the Spirit to an extent - which led to my baptism of fire and receiving hte gift of the HOly Ghost almsot 3 years afte the mission, but man there is so much more damage I think I did out htere than good. I blindly taught people false traditions - it was done out of ignorance, so again I know the Lord won't condemn me, but man, like Paul I kicked against the pricks unintentionally. My Self-rigtheousness was something awful too. I Thank God, literally that He is so merciful. That being said, I know some that did convert people to the gospel who did receive the Holy Ghost, but I wonder now, if perhaps they had the Gift themselves when they taught...


If I were to go out again, I'm sure I would get sent home quickly. Not because I was breaking rules, but because I would just want to teach Christ. To each person I would tell them that God loves them, I know that because HE loves me -despite all my faults, He really loves me. His Spirit yearns jealously for me -so does it yearn jealously for others. If they were to realize how much God is calling out to them, how much he loves them and how much He wants them to come unto Him. How quickly He forgives - what a difference would be made?

When we all realize that we are on equal footing before God - none of us greater than the other all because of Jesus? Teach them that baptism is a commandment of hte Father, and when we fulfill that commandment, the Father in turn Promises to Give us the GotHG if we come unto Him with a broken heart and contrite Spirit. Then we are made son's and daughters of God. We are His. We are made HOly Temples. When we realize that we are a Holy Temple and it is from righteosness that our works are made rigtheous, then the world changes - and it isn't because we are worthy, but because of the Blood of the Lamb. Oh it is beautiful. I would tell them that their works can never save them, but Jesus can thorugh His grace after repentance. That only by them believing seeking Him will they be saved. I would then tell them that when they are given that salvation that they should realize that Grace means change - there is a change within us and we now can be like Christ. That we are anointed like He was being "christ-like ones" or christians. As a Christian we are to walk as He walked and through His grace perform and do "greater works than He." Oh this gospel is beautiful, but somehow we have perverted it and changed it into checklists and works. Denying the Power of Grace that changes us and causes us to change others and to just "be." He made us in His image when we received the Gift of the HOly Ghost. In His image we come from a place of righteousness to do all good works and when we see how merciful the Lord is to us, we naturally share and do so with others. We are, and therefore all our works are righteous, because they are the works of Christ, done in His name and not for ourselves or own glory.

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

Right, but until you've had the Lord tell you to "not visit" someone or to "walk around in an area for almost an hour" or to "move across the country where you don't know anyone and it makes no sense for you to give up all you ahve now" Or to "leave jerusalem because it is wicked" it might not make sense. Yet each one of those events has occurred (with the exception of jerusalem). to me. There are many more. I cna't tell you how many times the Lord is like nah, don't vist that person, they aren't home - ok. Or "hey you're kinda like a doer and sense you won't listen to me if I were to tell you to just sit here for a while, I'm gonna keep leading you in circles like a horse until you finally chill out and hten you will meet the person you need to meet at the exact time in the exact moment as if you were walking that way in the perfect way to say these exact words in the right moment to help prevent that person from committing suicide or to lift them up and let them know that I love them because they aren't listening to my voice, so I will use my voice in you" Or I'm gonna lead you across the country and tell you to move to random apartment buildings becaue I want to see if you are actually going to do whatever I ask you to do" Then at the end of all that moving, when you still aren't happy and can't figure out why nothing is working despite you following hte SPirit, I'm gonna show you how to have a broken heart and contrite Spirit where you will cry out to me and then I will baptize you with fire and the Holy Ghost, because you showed at all costs that you ahd a contrite spirit - you were willind to do ALL that I asked, but you didn't have a broken heart until that final moment when you cried out to me for help realizing you couldn't do it yourself."

Those are just a few of my experiences, that is why I tend to believe Tylerdurden. I'm actually ahppy for him because he is learning it at a much faster rate than I did. God bless him and I hope it blesses his life. And because it sounds like he did it by consecrating that action to the Lord, the Lord will bless it for his benefit meaning that if one day he finds out it wasn't the Lord, his heart will break and he will learn a lesson. Better to learn that lesson now than later, but i truly believe he was following the Lord's/Spirit's counsel.

I've had the same experiences, but those are much different. They don't involve you setting yourself above others in the Church nor in breaking a commandment. Those are experiences given to you within the proper realm that you are given to operate it-your individual sphere.

God didn't tell you while you were on your mission-"hey you should go travel 3 areas across and go visit this one Sister." Learning to distinguish between proper thoughts and inspirations from God and that which is not of God is a challenge.

Too often, way, way too often we simply teach to "Follow the Spirit"-except we don't teach the other half of that, "Follow the Right Spirit", that there are OTHER spirits which can influence us and you have to learn how to follow the Holy one- or out of all the possible spirits that can influence you, you need to follow the Holy One.

And the only way you can truly know what the Holy One is or is not-is to have whatever spirit it is that is talking to you back up what they are saying by God's Word.

There are actually very few individuals who's ENTIRE lives are guided entirely by the Holy Spirit-those guys are generally regarded as Prophets-as in the prophets in the Scriptures.

We should all be striving for it-but the vast, vast majority of us are going to be listening to the wrong spirit many, many times in our lives. Unfortunately, we don't even teach this is possible and we don't even teach the mechanism by which one can determine if one is listening to the wrong spirit. So I don't blame people for sometimes running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to figure out which spirit is from God and which one is not.

I hope you can understand, while I agree with you, I also disagree. I've had too many experiences where I really, really, really thought I was following the Spirit but it lead to some major problem.

So it is my cautionary tale that too much of "Follow the Spirit" without guidance and council as to how to know which spirit you are listening to is fraught with MUCH peril.

It is the mechanisms by which all manner of falsehoods are entering into the Church. Many, many, many people are giving their testimonies and bearing their "truth" that God through His Holy "Spirit" testified to them that they are homosexual, that they should date the same-sex, that they should leave their spouse, that they should do whatever.

And if this is not stopped in the Church-if people are not taught HOW to discern between the Spirit of the Holy One and evil, seductive spirits, then we have only seen the beginning and you are going to see such tremendous chaos inside the Church-you'll be stunned.

This idea that whatever you do as long as you bear solemn testimony it's from God then it's from God and we should "just believe" is a tremendous falsehood and it will burn a lot of people.

After I received the revelation to go home, I asked the Lord if this revelation was from him. In my mind I heard a “yes”. I asked for this confirmation throughout the week to ensure that it truly was the Lord’s will. Each time he said “yes”. So I knew it was from Him.

After this confirmation, doubting thoughts entered my mind, and I had unbelief that this is what the Lord wanted me to do. I cried out and again asked for a confirmation, but this time I asked for a sign. It was then that a huge strong feeling came over me. In my mind I heard “you should stay”.


Now looking back on that experience, I know the ideas of going home, and the confirmation of “yes” I received, were from God. And those strong feelings and doubting ideas that the first confirmation was false and that “I should stay” were of the devil.

I don’t doubt the words of God. I have faith in him

[Alexander]

I want to make it clear that the hard events of my mission were not an excuse to come home. I would have stayed out there and struggled a whole other year, or however long if that was what the Lord wanted. In fact, it was only a few months into my mission that I was questioning staying out. I asked and the Lord told me to stay, and that he would tell me when my “time here was over.” It wasn’t until a year out that the Lord told me it was time.

I was using this post to explain my story, to just let things out that have been bottled up so long, and to show what I understand in terms of following the spirit.

I imagine that you knew full well of the consequences of coming home early, especially how you would be judged within our Mormon culture. I imagine that the Lord speaking to you did not bring the warm emotional fuzzies that the majority of members conflate with the Spirit - on the contrary I imagine this may have been the most gut wrenching decision of your life... I commend you for your courage to seek out the voice of the Lord and be willing to follow it at all hazards. There is no greater and noble journey than the path towards becoming spiritually begotten, and I admire you for recognizing this at such a young age... It will be a lonely journey, but it kind of needs to be... Just ask anyone else who was willing to forsake all to come to know the Lord... God bless you dear Brother.

Thank you, god bless

[PickleRick]

I loved the OP. There have been some nuggets in the rest of the thread, but definitely had to wade thru some unpleasant posts also.

God sometimes asks difficult things of us. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone (I feel you already know that.)

This site has always had people saying it's too dangerous to try to follow the spirit on your own, just keep checking those boxes and you'll be fine.

I'll even agree to a point - it is less safe to seek the spirit, but there is also a risk to reward correlation. Warnings to be careful on your personal journey are justifiable, but voices chiding you to stay with the herd for safety - and I choose "herd" not "flock" intentionally - are neither helpful nor your friend.

[johnBob]

You've got a lot of good comments here. I generally agree with you. I am much the same, if I went back on a mission I'd probably get sent home (or someone would try to shut me up quickly) as I wouldn't teach the way I did teach. I would teach much differently.

Now THAT idea I can get on-board with-there are many, many patterns in the Scriptures where people were called and they suffered tremendously because of what they said. If tyler had said, I was sent home because I taught the 2nd fire-I'd say well it's pretty scriptural based so whoever sent you home is going to have to answer for that. But to say, God revealed to me about the 2nd baptism and then told me to go home and not even teach others about it b/c I hadn't experienced it, nah that I don't believe.

We teach about marriage as missionaries, but we don't say-you know I've never been married so I can't testify of it's truthfullness. If we only testified of those things that we know of-it would be pretty small indeed. And that's where Faith comes in. A missionary can simply say, I have faith that God will give to those who seek a 2nd baptism of fire, what is wrong with that??

In fact, that's what the scriptures direct us to do. But this missionary preaches something else-he preaches of a 2nd baptism but then preaches the God would tell him to go home b/c he didn't personally know of the 2nd baptism-that's contrary to God's pattern so whatever spirit told him to leave is/was a false one.

Right, but until you've had the Lord tell you to "not visit" someone or to "walk around in an area for almost an hour" or to "move across the country where you don't know anyone and it makes no sense for you to give up all you ahve now" Or to "leave jerusalem because it is wicked" it might not make sense. Yet each one of those events has occurred (with the exception of jerusalem). to me. There are many more. I cna't tell you how many times the Lord is like nah, don't vist that person, they aren't home - ok. Or "hey you're kinda like a doer and sense you won't listen to me if I were to tell you to just sit here for a while, I'm gonna keep leading you in circles like a horse until you finally chill out and hten you will meet the person you need to meet at the exact time in the exact moment as if you were walking that way in the perfect way to say these exact words in the right moment to help prevent that person from committing suicide or to lift them up and let them know that I love them because they aren't listening to my voice, so I will use my voice in you" Or I'm gonna lead you across the country and tell you to move to random apartment buildings becaue I want to see if you are actually going to do whatever I ask you to do" Then at the end of all that moving, when you still aren't happy and can't figure out why nothing is working despite you following hte SPirit, I'm gonna show you how to have a broken heart and contrite Spirit where you will cry out to me and then I will baptize you with fire and the Holy Ghost, because you showed at all costs that you ahd a contrite spirit - you were willind to do ALL that I asked, but you didn't have a broken heart until that final moment when you cried out to me for help realizing you couldn't do it yourself."

Those are just a few of my experiences, that is why I tend to believe Tylerdurden. I'm actually ahppy for him because he is learning it at a much faster rate than I did. God bless him and I hope it blesses his life. And because it sounds like he did it by consecrating that action to the Lord, the Lord will bless it for his benefit meaning that if one day he finds out it wasn't the Lord, his heart will break and he will learn a lesson. Better to learn that lesson now than later, but i truly believe he was following the Lord's/Spirit's counsel.

I've had the same experiences, but those are much different. They don't involve you setting yourself above others in the Church nor in breaking a commandment. Those are experiences given to you within the proper realm that you are given to operate it-your individual sphere.

God didn't tell you while you were on your mission-"hey you should go travel 3 areas across and go visit this one Sister." Learning to distinguish between proper thoughts and inspirations from God and that which is not of God is a challenge.

Too often, way, way too often we simply teach to "Follow the Spirit"-except we don't teach the other half of that, "Follow the Right Spirit", that there are OTHER spirits which can influence us and you have to learn how to follow the Holy one- or out of all the possible spirits that can influence you, you need to follow the Holy One.

And the only way you can truly know what the Holy One is or is not-is to have whatever spirit it is that is talking to you back up what they are saying by God's Word.

There are actually very few individuals who's ENTIRE lives are guided entirely by the Holy Spirit-those guys are generally regarded as Prophets-as in the prophets in the Scriptures.

We should all be striving for it-but the vast, vast majority of us are going to be listening to the wrong spirit many, many times in our lives. Unfortunately, we don't even teach this is possible and we don't even teach the mechanism by which one can determine if one is listening to the wrong spirit. So I don't blame people for sometimes running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying to figure out which spirit is from God and which one is not.

I hope you can understand, while I agree with you, I also disagree. I've had too many experiences where I really, really, really thought I was following the Spirit but it lead to some major problem.

So it is my cautionary tale that too much of "Follow the Spirit" without guidance and council as to how to know which spirit you are listening to is fraught with MUCH peril.

It is the mechanisms by which all manner of falsehoods are entering into the Church. Many, many, many people are giving their testimonies and bearing their "truth" that God through His Holy "Spirit" testified to them that they are homosexual, that they should date the same-sex, that they should leave their spouse, that they should do whatever.

And if this is not stopped in the Church-if people are not taught HOW to discern between the Spirit of the Holy One and evil, seductive spirits, then we have only seen the beginning and you are going to see such tremendous chaos inside the Church-you'll be stunned.

This idea that whatever you do as long as you bear solemn testimony it's from God then it's from God and we should "just believe" is a tremendous falsehood and it will burn a lot of people.

After I received the revelation to go home, I asked the Lord if this revelation was from him. In my mind I heard a “yes”. I asked for this confirmation throughout the week to ensure that it truly was the Lord’s will. Each time he said “yes”. So I knew it was from Him.

After this confirmation, doubting thoughts entered my mind, and I had unbelief that this is what the Lord wanted me to do. I cried out and again asked for a confirmation, but this time I asked for a sign. It was then that a huge weird feeling came over me, Almost making me sick. In my mind I heard “you should stay”.


Now looking back on that experience, I know the ideas of going home, and the confirmation of “yes” I received, were from God. And those weird feelings and doubting ideas that the first confirmation was false and that “I should stay” were of the devil.

I don’t doubt the words of God. I have faith in him

These are the exact same things homosexuals will say when bearing their testimony about how God told them they should date or marry someone of the same sex.

Be careful what spirit you are listening to. You could be very, very mixed up. I've been there before-I've been very mixed up-which is why I rely upon God's Word, and things that come into my mind better have backing in God's Word.

It's called THE rod, or the IRON rod for a reason, i.e. it is THE measuring stick by which we can measure what we do and what we think. It is IRON because it is fixed, immovable and doesn't vary.

But alas, it appears this Church has completely gone away from any objective measure of truth and simply gone to "if it feels good do it". It's a different variant of it-as in "if it feels like it came from God do it"-but at the end of the day it's the same worldly foolishness.

[PickleRick]

The Word of God that comes to my mind regarding this is “Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men.”