LDS Freedom Forum

johnBob wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm

Juliet wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 1:12 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 12:20 pm

Juliet wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 12:01 pm The Church is supposed to represent Jesus Christ, not the other way around. The church is the mother of our faith. It does not substitute for our ability to grow independant in our own walk with the Lord. And it doesn't protect us from the sibling rivalry as we grow up with others being nurtured in the word of the Lord.

Helaman in the book of Mormon was given the sealing power and Jesus explains why. Because He knew Helaman would not ask amiss. Helaman was close to the Lord and followed Him.

Jesus was criticized because he didn't follow his mother and Joseph. People expected him to submit to their earthly authority. But Jesus showed by example that it never was earthly authority that Jesus respected. It was always His relationship with His Father in Heaven.

For those who will not follow Jesus, they are dead, whether in or out of the church. Let the dead bury the dead. Go and be about your Father's business.

Sort of, but not really.

The Church isn't supposed to represent Jesus Christ. The Church IS the Body of Christ. But the Church isn't the buildings or the hierarchy-the Church is the members, the collective group of members IS the Body of Christ. Some members are the Head of the Body, some members are the fingers of the Body-but we are all the Body of Christ.

The Church isn't the mother of our faith-the Church didn't birth us.

What you are suggesting is at odds with Scripture-you are suggesting that the fingers of the Body of Christ should be independent of the rest of the Body-that's nonsensical. We cannot individually be the Body of Christ-we can only be His Body when we are united together-we can only be part of His Body in a collective group.

The Body of Christ will one day be re-united with Christ, the Body of Christ (i.e. the Church) is also known as the bride of Christ. The Bride is to submit herself unto Christ like a wife is to submit to her husband. The union of the bride and the bridegoom mean that one day Christ and the Church will be united and become one (i.e. 2nd Coming). Until we are physically united, the Church (i.e. the Wife) should be spiritually united to Christ (i.e. the husband), and be submissive to Him.

This union of the Body of Christ with Christ is like a resurrection-until that resurrection the Church cannot represent Christ, it does not represent Christ-it is only the Body of Christ-corruptible in all the ways our mortal body is corruptible.

So when you are telling him to "go about his Father's business" and disregard the Church, you are telling him either you don't believe we are Christ's Body or that all that matters is our individual relationship with God rather than our collective relationship with God.

Because of this teaching the entire Body of Christ is becoming rotten with sores and boils with some fingers being bent and torn back-other fingers tearing at it's face, or feet trying to walk in 10 different directions.

The Body of Christ is tearing itself apart. I'm not sure which is worse, that people don't even recognize or understand this is happening or that they are actively encouraging it.

I am not being irreverent to the role of the church. But the body of Christ will be doing the will of the Head. If there are those who do not do the will of the Head, then they are not part of the body. You cannot say that a person is part of the body of Christ if their actions are against Christ. You cannot say that because they are part of a body, they are the body. You just know who is part of the body by their actions, whether good or evil. Is it not the devil that stirs up contention between people? Then those who do the will of the Father will work as a whole whole those who do not are torn apart by contention.

It's a good comment.

The contention aspect is interesting. I think we have it backwards. We state this thing that is contention is of the devil. But that's not correct.

You have to understand why the contention happens. Contention happens because there is disagreement. Christ isn't saying that above all we just just agree, but that we should be agreeable or ready to agree. If everyone is ready to agree then contention never happens because we work out our disagreements.

So we have to go a little further back-it's not that the devil stirs up contention-it's that he confounds truth with lies. Confounding truth with lies is at the root of disagreement and an unwillingness to be willing to agree on truth (i.e. the idea that everyone has their own truth) leads to contention. And therefore contention truly is of the Devil.

I don't believe you are accurate in stating who is or who isn't a part of the Body. All Christians who are baptized (or who have shown a willingness by being baptized to join with Christ) and believe in Christ are part of his Body-some are further from His Heart than others-but if one believes in Christ, you are part of His Body.

When Christ comes again, there will be Christians from all sects who will be with Him, not just us.

johnBob wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 10:36 pmCan't wait until we really go down the "woke" rabbit-hole-gonna be fun!

Thinker wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 4:02 pm

johnBob wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 10:36 pmCan't wait until we really go down the "woke" rabbit-hole-gonna be fun!

When?!! I wanna go!!!

TylerDurden wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:41 pm

Rick Grimes wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:03 pm What "false teachings" was your mission teaching?

What hypocrisy did you witness in the church that would cause you to go home?

I agree with a good portion of what you wrote with regards to following the spirit and such, but I'm confused when you wrote these statements as to the prelude to your pondering going home.

Things like baptism of water washes away sins, and the sacrament makes you clean. I heard the leadership including an area 70 teach the missionaries that the number of baptisms was the most important thing. We were teaching that salvation is in the temple, and we were denying the power of God. I saw a lot of pride. We would boast in our success as missionaries. We would boast about how our church was best to other people. Service projects (even the ones done by the mission overall) were done without charity and focused on pushing the name of the church out to others, and not to fully help others. Everything had nothing to do with Christ. I read through the Book of Mormon and saw all of the prophecies come to pass in our day in our church. I saw the missionaries put down others from other faiths and mock and laugh at humble Christians. I saw bickering. I saw missionaries leave the beggars on the street and pass them by as if they were nobody. I saw lessons and discussions without the spirit. I saw class separation. I saw missionaries without the gift of the Holy Ghost. I saw humble repentant sinners denied baptism because they couldn’t abandon smoking. I saw self righteousness. I saw idol worship. Pride and prejudice abounded. I saw the Doctrine of Christ was changed and added upon. “All is well in Zion” was the common theme among the mission.

I took all of this in. I struggled for months of heartbreak, and loneliness, and fear until I asked the lord what I should do, and he told me to come home, and seek the baptism of fire.

I left because the Lord told me to, and I can’t deny that.

abijah` wrote: ↑January 17th, 2020, 4:26 pmin wonderland w/ alice, which is where personal revelation without something to measure it against gets you.