Personal revelation and coming home from mission

[BeNotDeceived]

“Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually [received] a [revelation]; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually [received]? For I had [received a revelation]; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.”

"Tyler" - you could make just about any statement about anything here, and there will be those who chime in and tell you how wrong you are. I read your reasoning, and I too felt it's a little suspect but so what? You know whether God answered you. Some day, God will either high five you or say, 'Really?" You know which is coming.

That all said, though I applaud you for the bravery of telling your story here, why are you telling it? Are you trying to help others - and if so how? Or, are you looking for validation? Some other third thing?

Imagine if every single active member of our church each took turn witnessing a modern day version of Nephi slaying Laban. Let's say they don't know either man - they just watch a man walk up to a drunken man and gat him in a dark alley. How would they react by and large? Could they know for themselves that the "murderer" was doing the Lord's will? Should they know? Does it matter? See what I mean?

I'll tell ya this much.

Had Tyler said " I Love Russell M Nelson So so much I love the apostles so much they do so much for me I sustain them with all my heart and pray for them" and followed that with "I felt that I should return home from my mission because the Spirit said so"

All these people saying he's looking for validation or an excuse to leave would be all "oh good job buddy, way to go, way to follow the Spirit you're so courageous".

$2. Next time this happens Alaris, take the bet??

Why two dollars ?

Soon my travels revisit a land where once upon a time I indeed did exchange $2 bills for many fine treasures.

Nuggets , but not gold. dbnp

[ChooseTruth]

My son had some similar waking up experiences on his mission. One of the most poignant had to do with a family he was teaching. They were progressing well and had agreed to baptism. It came time for him to teach tithing. This family was very poor but also very disciplined with their spending. When they learned of tithing, they shed tears and asked why they had to pay money to the church to have their sins forgiven. My son gave all the right answers about acting in faith etc, but it was a wake up call for him as well. He realized that not everything they were teaching was properly aligned with Christ’s gospel. It changed the way he viewed the gospel and taught people. In his case, he was one of the top baptizing elders in his mission, but it created an eye opening turning point where he understands the clear separation between the church organization/corporation and the gospel.

I do not doubt the answers you have received. Your path will not be easier, at least in the short term, as a result of your experiences. Just make sure your heart is 100% committed to following Christ rather than yourself (one of the hardest things for all of us), and He will take you where you need to go.

[Thinker]

Yeah that's a great Scripture, I really appreciate it-you back me up. Missionaries go to the MTC, spend 6-12 weeks learning the Word, then every day have at least 2 hours of Scripture study learning God's Word, and most likely a lot more-I probably studied at least 3 hours a day on my mission.

But I'm absolutely positive that tyler here now that God has "released him" from the shackles of being a missionary spends more time than he ever would beforehand actually obtaining God's Word?

Right? Since coming home, he has dedicated his life to being a monk-studying 4+ hours a day to know God's Word. Right?

Please, this guy is just using the 2nd baptism as an excuse...

...Yeap, that's all it takes, nobody knows the Scriptures anymore so they can't see through the utter BS.

JohnBob,
Have you ever read the intro to the Book or Mormon? It states that these writings are by fallible people like you and I...

• “...if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God”

“Word” does not mean scripture - think about it - “Word made flesh.” I’ve come to see words as means of healing - bringing chaos into order.

Don’t have false gods. You’re making scriptures out to be your highest god. Speaking of BS, no wonder Utah led the nation in anti-depressants and mental illness. According to studies in a book by lds authors (Brent & Wendy Topp), it is estimated that up to 80% of mental illness is rooted in dysfunctional interpretations of religious doctrines.

A study sought to discover what, if any, influence religious involvement had on physical health. Of 3 groups, those not religiously involved and those excessively religiously involved did poorest. Those moderately religiously involved did best. Other studies that showed those most involved (pastors, bishops, missionaries etc), had much higher rates of depression & anxiety.

American Family Foundation:

• Characteristics of a cult:
  "The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
  *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
  *The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
  *The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (ie: no financial transparency)."

For several more extensive lists: http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/up ... istics.htm

Based on 100+ questions regarding cult characteristics, it was estimated that the average lds member was subject to cult mentality at the rate of 60%, missionaries: 95%.

Then you add on top of that missionaries required to go along with financial corruption like taking food from starving children - and it’s understandable to not feel right about it - even if “everyone’s doing it.”

The Word or Logos.

No, you don't understand. It is through God's Word whereby we can understand the proper patterns of Life. Too many people in our Church take the Scriptures too lightly and allow any little thought no matter how bizarre strange to be "from God".

Let's say I stand up and declare that God told me I should divorce my wife and marry a 12 year old girl? Why should I not do that? I can proclaim all day long that God has declared it unto me-yet you would dispute my claims. Why?

You would dispute my claims because my claim does not fit the pattern found in the . . .wait for it . .. .Scriptures.

Unless you proclaim to have seen God and Christ (which I have not), I will gladly take God's Word by men who HAVE proclaimed to see God over my own stupid thoughts, feelings any day of the week. Now if at some point, God grants me the gift of seeing Him, then I might become Scripture-but that hasn't happened yet.

So unless and until a person can stand up and proclaim they have seen God and this is what he says . . .whatever screwy thoughts they have can go sit at the back of the bus-while I study what is actually from God.

Don’t have false gods. You’re making scriptures out to be your highest god....

Thinker, you've made this comment before. I believe it to be wrong. Nobody really prays to their quad or their Gospel Library app or whatever. Scriptures are merely a medium through which God's word is relayed to us...

JohnBob, & AZRob...
I started another thread about the need to not believe everything you read - not even scripture.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=53617

[darknesstolight]

I want to make it clear that the hard events of my mission were not an excuse to come home. I would have stayed out there and struggled a whole other year, or however long if that was what the Lord wanted. In fact, it was only a few months into my mission that I was questioning staying out. I asked and the Lord told me to stay, and that he would tell me when my “time here was over.” It wasn’t until a year out that the Lord told me it was time.

I was using this post to explain my story, to just let things out that have been bottled up so long, and to show what I understand in terms of following the spirit.

The older I get the more I become convinced most people don't have a clue when God is talking to them or when they are really hearing themselves or when they hear other spirits.

I hear and see so many people saying things like the above but just switch out the context-it could be anything from "God told me to divorce my wife" to "God told me to start dating the same-sex".

I'm not convinced you have the slightest clue of when God is talking to you and when He's not.

Quite frankly, if you are/were so convinced it was God talking to you-you wouldn't need to come anonymously on some internet website looking for support that it really was God talking to you. If it was God talking to you-you won't need to "let things out that have been bottled up so long" and to "show you understand" following the "spirit".

Why are you looking for validation and support in random strangers who know nothing of you. If it really was God talking to you (which it wasn't), you'd have the self-confidence to know and you'd never need to proselytize your abnormal experience by trying to make it appear as you really are some righteous dude who knows Gods will in order to justify your behavior in quitting a mission.

So, tell me in positive, clear, and in plain terms how you know God is talking to you?

...

Almost always, by His Word. A Scripture will be brought to my remembrance.

It's the pattern by which Christ showed how God talked to Him. He quoted Scripture.
It's the same pattern by which Nephi knew God was talking to Him-a Scripture was brought to his remembrance.

It's why learning God's Word is so critical, very, very few individuals are like a Joseph Smith where their word IS scripture-and I ain't one of them and I don't know of anyone alive who is like that.

If you don't know His Word, the Logos, how are you ever going to distinguish between your own voice and God's voice or other spirits voices?

Ok, so you know that God is talking to you when a scripture comes to your mind. Well, how is it you know when another person has NOT received revelation? How do you know when a scripture has come to their mind or not? Did you receive a scripture in your mind regarding the OP? What scripture was it that informed you about the OP?

...

[Luke]

Why is everyone launching a total character assassination on Tyler? What if the Spirit did tell him to do such a thing? It's not an unreasonable assumption to make, stop pretending to know the mind of the Lord.

[johnBob]

Why is everyone launching a total character assassination on Tyler? What if the Spirit did tell him to do such a thing? It's not an unreasonable assumption to make, stop pretending to know the mind of the Lord.

Because Tyler is preaching a different doctrine. It's not a character assassination.

Stop being so gullible and think that every time someone says "God spoke to me"-they are telling the truth.
-----
God told me all yall are burning in Hell!!
-----
How dare you character assassinate me and say I'm off my rocker!

[Luke]

Why is everyone launching a total character assassination on Tyler? What if the Spirit did tell him to do such a thing? It's not an unreasonable assumption to make, stop pretending to know the mind of the Lord.

Because Tyler is preaching a different doctrine. It's not a character assassination.

Stop being so gullible and think that every time someone says "God spoke to me"-they are telling the truth.
-----
God told me all yall are burning in Hell!!
-----
How dare you character assassinate me and say I'm off my rocker!

Calm down lad

EDIT: And how is it a different doctrine? Why are you putting the Lord in a box?

[johnBob]

How do we know who is a true messenger from God?

By the tokens and signs we have already received.

Do you really think it's about whether someone else knows the mechanics of a "secret" handshake?

True messengers are found in individuals who give true messages that line up precisely with the symbols we've already been given. Where do we find those symbols-in God's Word.

[johnBob]

Why is everyone launching a total character assassination on Tyler? What if the Spirit did tell him to do such a thing? It's not an unreasonable assumption to make, stop pretending to know the mind of the Lord.

Because Tyler is preaching a different doctrine. It's not a character assassination.

Stop being so gullible and think that every time someone says "God spoke to me"-they are telling the truth.
-----
God told me all yall are burning in Hell!!
-----
How dare you character assassinate me and say I'm off my rocker!

Calm down lad

EDIT: And how is it a different doctrine? Why are you putting the Lord in a box?

I'm perfectly calm.

I'm not putting the Lord in a box-I'm simply illustrating the fact that as a religion we are ded. We don't know how to find truth, we don't know how to discern good from bad, we don't know how to do anything . .. except repeat without end the mantra "Follow the Spirit"-without even quantifying how to do that.

Except the fact that any thought that comes in our brain that does not appear to be ours MUST be from God. That's a really, really dangerous belief system. It's why from Mormonism we find some really strange cults, it's why we have people who have started break-offs who've murdered entire families. Because of this false teaching.

Because the two overriding beliefs inside the Church-above all else-have become "Follow the Prophet" and "Follow the Spirit"-we are getting and will get in the future some really, really strange and perverse beliefs.

You know what the Spirit would tell most people if they were really listening? It would shout "Read your Scriptures".

How egotistical and self-righteous that we think we can know the mind of God without taking a serious study of His Word? When you have learned His Word, then you can start to discern between false spirits and true spirits.

[Believing Joseph]

Why is everyone launching a total character assassination on Tyler? What if the Spirit did tell him to do such a thing?

Because Tyler is preaching a different doctrine. It's not a character assassination.

Stop being so gullible and think that every time someone says "God spoke to me"-they are telling the truth.

It seems to me that Tyler feels rather insecure about his beliefs and actions, hence his desire to defend them in an in internet forum in which, whether he intended to or he, he came off as sounding quite arrogant.

If he had just said something to the effect of "I was out on my mission for a year, but I realized a lot of things weren't what they seemed to be, and now I'm rather confused about what to do" it would have been one thing.

But when you frame your decision to do something that usually indicates laziness or lack of commitment in terms of having gotten special spiritual knowledge above and beyond the rest of us - i.e. by concluding your OP by quoting a GA and saying 'I'm here to tell you that's not true' - you're bound to rub people the wrong way.

[Zathura]

Tyler i would suggest ignoring any posts talking about you and choose only to post on the topic at hand. People will literally never stop going at you if you let them.

[johnBob]

Why is everyone launching a total character assassination on Tyler? What if the Spirit did tell him to do such a thing?

Because Tyler is preaching a different doctrine. It's not a character assassination.

Stop being so gullible and think that every time someone says "God spoke to me"-they are telling the truth.

It seems to me that Tyler feels rather insecure about his beliefs and actions, hence his desire to defend them in an in internet forum in which, whether he intended to or he, he came off as sounding quite arrogant.

If he had just said something to the effect of "I was out on my mission for a year, but I realized a lot of things weren't what they seemed to be, and now I'm rather confused about what to do" it would have been one thing.

But when you frame your decision to do something that usually indicates laziness or lack of commitment in terms of having gotten special spiritual knowledge above and beyond the rest of us - i.e. by concluding your OP by quoting a GA and saying 'I'm here to tell you that's not true' - you're bound to rub people the wrong way.

Very astute observation.

[Juliet]

The Church is supposed to represent Jesus Christ, not the other way around. The church is the mother of our faith. It does not substitute for our ability to grow independant in our own walk with the Lord. And it doesn't protect us from the sibling rivalry as we grow up with others being nurtured in the word of the Lord.

Helaman in the book of Mormon was given the sealing power and Jesus explains why. Because He knew Helaman would not ask amiss. Helaman was close to the Lord and followed Him.

Jesus was criticized because he didn't follow his mother and Joseph. People expected him to submit to their earthly authority. But Jesus showed by example that it never was earthly authority that Jesus respected. It was always His relationship with His Father in Heaven.

For those who will not follow Jesus, they are dead, whether in or out of the church. Let the dead bury the dead. Go and be about your Father's business.

[johnBob]

The Church is supposed to represent Jesus Christ, not the other way around. The church is the mother of our faith. It does not substitute for our ability to grow independant in our own walk with the Lord. And it doesn't protect us from the sibling rivalry as we grow up with others being nurtured in the word of the Lord.

Helaman in the book of Mormon was given the sealing power and Jesus explains why. Because He knew Helaman would not ask amiss. Helaman was close to the Lord and followed Him.

Jesus was criticized because he didn't follow his mother and Joseph. People expected him to submit to their earthly authority. But Jesus showed by example that it never was earthly authority that Jesus respected. It was always His relationship with His Father in Heaven.

For those who will not follow Jesus, they are dead, whether in or out of the church. Let the dead bury the dead. Go and be about your Father's business.

Sort of, but not really.

The Church isn't supposed to represent Jesus Christ. The Church IS the Body of Christ. But the Church isn't the buildings or the hierarchy-the Church is the members, the collective group of members IS the Body of Christ. Some members are the Head of the Body, some members are the fingers of the Body-but we are all the Body of Christ.

The Church isn't the mother of our faith-the Church didn't birth us.

What you are suggesting is at odds with Scripture-you are suggesting that the fingers of the Body of Christ should be independent of the rest of the Body-that's nonsensical. We cannot individually be the Body of Christ-we can only be His Body when we are united together-we can only be part of His Body in a collective group.

The Body of Christ will one day be re-united with Christ, the Body of Christ (i.e. the Church) is also known as the bride of Christ. The Bride is to submit herself unto Christ like a wife is to submit to her husband. The union of the bride and the bridegoom mean that one day Christ and the Church will be united and become one (i.e. 2nd Coming). Until we are physically united, the Church (i.e. the Wife) should be spiritually united to Christ (i.e. the husband), and be submissive to Him.

This union of the Body of Christ with Christ is like a resurrection-until that resurrection the Church cannot represent Christ, it does not represent Christ-it is only the Body of Christ-corruptible in all the ways our mortal body is corruptible.

So when you are telling him to "go about his Father's business" and disregard the Church, you are telling him either you don't believe we are Christ's Body or that all that matters is our individual relationship with God rather than our collective relationship with God.

Because of this teaching the entire Body of Christ is becoming rotten with sores and boils with some fingers being bent and torn back-other fingers tearing at it's face, or feet trying to walk in 10 different directions.

The Body of Christ is tearing itself apart. I'm not sure which is worse, that people don't even recognize or understand this is happening or that they are actively encouraging it.

[Bronco73idi]

The Church is supposed to represent Jesus Christ, not the other way around. The church is the mother of our faith. It does not substitute for our ability to grow independant in our own walk with the Lord. And it doesn't protect us from the sibling rivalry as we grow up with others being nurtured in the word of the Lord.

Helaman in the book of Mormon was given the sealing power and Jesus explains why. Because He knew Helaman would not ask amiss. Helaman was close to the Lord and followed Him.

Jesus was criticized because he didn't follow his mother and Joseph. People expected him to submit to their earthly authority. But Jesus showed by example that it never was earthly authority that Jesus respected. It was always His relationship with His Father in Heaven.

For those who will not follow Jesus, they are dead, whether in or out of the church. Let the dead bury the dead. Go and be about your Father's business.

I would tread lightly when likening someone as our Lord and savior. What our Lord did as an adolescent was actions for his Heavenly Father.

I was hoping to hear positive actions from a man who hides behind a movie character that conditioned us for an event orchestrated by the prince of lies. But nothing, then again nothing comes from the spirit of the devil.

[johnBob]

The older I get the more I become convinced most people don't have a clue when God is talking to them or when they are really hearing themselves or when they hear other spirits.

I hear and see so many people saying things like the above but just switch out the context-it could be anything from "God told me to divorce my wife" to "God told me to start dating the same-sex".

I'm not convinced you have the slightest clue of when God is talking to you and when He's not.

Quite frankly, if you are/were so convinced it was God talking to you-you wouldn't need to come anonymously on some internet website looking for support that it really was God talking to you. If it was God talking to you-you won't need to "let things out that have been bottled up so long" and to "show you understand" following the "spirit".

Why are you looking for validation and support in random strangers who know nothing of you. If it really was God talking to you (which it wasn't), you'd have the self-confidence to know and you'd never need to proselytize your abnormal experience by trying to make it appear as you really are some righteous dude who knows Gods will in order to justify your behavior in quitting a mission.

So, tell me in positive, clear, and in plain terms how you know God is talking to you?

...

Almost always, by His Word. A Scripture will be brought to my remembrance.

It's the pattern by which Christ showed how God talked to Him. He quoted Scripture.
It's the same pattern by which Nephi knew God was talking to Him-a Scripture was brought to his remembrance.

It's why learning God's Word is so critical, very, very few individuals are like a Joseph Smith where their word IS scripture-and I ain't one of them and I don't know of anyone alive who is like that.

If you don't know His Word, the Logos, how are you ever going to distinguish between your own voice and God's voice or other spirits voices?

Ok, so you know that God is talking to you when a scripture comes to your mind. Well, how is it you know when another person has NOT received revelation? How do you know when a scripture has come to their mind or not? Did you receive a scripture in your mind regarding the OP? What scripture was it that informed you about the OP?

...

Good point. No I didn't receive a specific scripture in my mind-however our lives are patterns, shadows and types.

I think to myself what pattern, shadow or type would this "revelation" give. Let's suppose this "revelation" is from God. Then God had a purpose in mind for telling this young man this. God clearly knew that this young man would go home and would then blab about his experience on the internet. God knew this young man would in effect proselytize His revelation to him about this experience. What effect would this proselytizing have on others?

So I think to myself, God knew this-so God knew this and then gave this "revelation" to this young man. How does this "revelation" fit within God's plan and knowledge of the Gospel.

The "meta" so-to-speak of this experience, is truth twisted with lies. The truth is about hypocrisy in the Church and the disregarding of teaching about the 2nd baptism-that's truth. But there is a big lie in there too.

The lie comes in the proselytizing-not in the individual experience. Had this young man kept silent-sure maybe it was from God because as the Scriptures state (a little inspiration here) Luke 2:19 "But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart." It's only after the miracles came that we have records.

For example, if this young man had stated say 5 years after his mission, I came home early b/c God told me to and within one month, I met a wonderful girl who I baptized and now we have 3 children in the Gospel. I might say, okay the fruit of coming home early seems to have born good fruit. If he can tie a direct good fruit to it (and not some circuitous justification) then maybe it was of God.

But that is not what he has done. The "meta" from his experience is "you too can be just like Nephi-I was just like Nephi, you don't need to study or learn God's word, you simply need to talk to Him and anything that comes in your mind which gives you what you want is God talking to you". That's so false it's stunning how many people are just like -yeah, you go!

Learning and knowing the Mind of God is serious business-it's a lot more serious than we give it credit. And when I have voices that start telling me things that go against what I've read in Scripture-the patterns, types and shadows in Scripture-I'm very, very cautious.

[Juliet]

The Church is supposed to represent Jesus Christ, not the other way around. The church is the mother of our faith. It does not substitute for our ability to grow independant in our own walk with the Lord. And it doesn't protect us from the sibling rivalry as we grow up with others being nurtured in the word of the Lord.

Helaman in the book of Mormon was given the sealing power and Jesus explains why. Because He knew Helaman would not ask amiss. Helaman was close to the Lord and followed Him.

Jesus was criticized because he didn't follow his mother and Joseph. People expected him to submit to their earthly authority. But Jesus showed by example that it never was earthly authority that Jesus respected. It was always His relationship with His Father in Heaven.

For those who will not follow Jesus, they are dead, whether in or out of the church. Let the dead bury the dead. Go and be about your Father's business.

Sort of, but not really.

The Church isn't supposed to represent Jesus Christ. The Church IS the Body of Christ. But the Church isn't the buildings or the hierarchy-the Church is the members, the collective group of members IS the Body of Christ. Some members are the Head of the Body, some members are the fingers of the Body-but we are all the Body of Christ.

The Church isn't the mother of our faith-the Church didn't birth us.

What you are suggesting is at odds with Scripture-you are suggesting that the fingers of the Body of Christ should be independent of the rest of the Body-that's nonsensical. We cannot individually be the Body of Christ-we can only be His Body when we are united together-we can only be part of His Body in a collective group.

The Body of Christ will one day be re-united with Christ, the Body of Christ (i.e. the Church) is also known as the bride of Christ. The Bride is to submit herself unto Christ like a wife is to submit to her husband. The union of the bride and the bridegoom mean that one day Christ and the Church will be united and become one (i.e. 2nd Coming). Until we are physically united, the Church (i.e. the Wife) should be spiritually united to Christ (i.e. the husband), and be submissive to Him.

This union of the Body of Christ with Christ is like a resurrection-until that resurrection the Church cannot represent Christ, it does not represent Christ-it is only the Body of Christ-corruptible in all the ways our mortal body is corruptible.

So when you are telling him to "go about his Father's business" and disregard the Church, you are telling him either you don't believe we are Christ's Body or that all that matters is our individual relationship with God rather than our collective relationship with God.

Because of this teaching the entire Body of Christ is becoming rotten with sores and boils with some fingers being bent and torn back-other fingers tearing at it's face, or feet trying to walk in 10 different directions.

The Body of Christ is tearing itself apart. I'm not sure which is worse, that people don't even recognize or understand this is happening or that they are actively encouraging it.

I am not being irreverent to the role of the church. But the body of Christ will be doing the will of the Head. If there are those who do not do the will of the Head, then they are not part of the body. You cannot say that a person is part of the body of Christ if their actions are against Christ. You cannot say that because they are part of a body, they are the body. You know who is part of the body by their fruit, whether good or evil. Is it not the devil that stirs up contention between people? Those who do the will of the Father will be united as a whole while those who do not are torn apart by contention.

Jeremiah 31 says when Jesus comes the law will be written on our inward parts. No one will say to their neighbor 'know ye the Lord' because everyone will know the Lord personally.

[johnBob]

The Church is supposed to represent Jesus Christ, not the other way around. The church is the mother of our faith. It does not substitute for our ability to grow independant in our own walk with the Lord. And it doesn't protect us from the sibling rivalry as we grow up with others being nurtured in the word of the Lord.

Helaman in the book of Mormon was given the sealing power and Jesus explains why. Because He knew Helaman would not ask amiss. Helaman was close to the Lord and followed Him.

Jesus was criticized because he didn't follow his mother and Joseph. People expected him to submit to their earthly authority. But Jesus showed by example that it never was earthly authority that Jesus respected. It was always His relationship with His Father in Heaven.

For those who will not follow Jesus, they are dead, whether in or out of the church. Let the dead bury the dead. Go and be about your Father's business.

Sort of, but not really.

The Church isn't supposed to represent Jesus Christ. The Church IS the Body of Christ. But the Church isn't the buildings or the hierarchy-the Church is the members, the collective group of members IS the Body of Christ. Some members are the Head of the Body, some members are the fingers of the Body-but we are all the Body of Christ.

The Church isn't the mother of our faith-the Church didn't birth us.

What you are suggesting is at odds with Scripture-you are suggesting that the fingers of the Body of Christ should be independent of the rest of the Body-that's nonsensical. We cannot individually be the Body of Christ-we can only be His Body when we are united together-we can only be part of His Body in a collective group.

The Body of Christ will one day be re-united with Christ, the Body of Christ (i.e. the Church) is also known as the bride of Christ. The Bride is to submit herself unto Christ like a wife is to submit to her husband. The union of the bride and the bridegoom mean that one day Christ and the Church will be united and become one (i.e. 2nd Coming). Until we are physically united, the Church (i.e. the Wife) should be spiritually united to Christ (i.e. the husband), and be submissive to Him.

This union of the Body of Christ with Christ is like a resurrection-until that resurrection the Church cannot represent Christ, it does not represent Christ-it is only the Body of Christ-corruptible in all the ways our mortal body is corruptible.

So when you are telling him to "go about his Father's business" and disregard the Church, you are telling him either you don't believe we are Christ's Body or that all that matters is our individual relationship with God rather than our collective relationship with God.

Because of this teaching the entire Body of Christ is becoming rotten with sores and boils with some fingers being bent and torn back-other fingers tearing at it's face, or feet trying to walk in 10 different directions.

The Body of Christ is tearing itself apart. I'm not sure which is worse, that people don't even recognize or understand this is happening or that they are actively encouraging it.

I am not being irreverent to the role of the church. But the body of Christ will be doing the will of the Head. If there are those who do not do the will of the Head, then they are not part of the body. You cannot say that a person is part of the body of Christ if their actions are against Christ. You cannot say that because they are part of a body, they are the body. You just know who is part of the body by their actions, whether good or evil. Is it not the devil that stirs up contention between people? Then those who do the will of the Father will work as a whole whole those who do not are torn apart by contention.

It's a good comment.

The contention aspect is interesting. I think we have it backwards. We state this thing that is contention is of the devil. But that's not correct.

You have to understand why the contention happens. Contention happens because there is disagreement. Christ isn't saying that above all we just just agree, but that we should be agreeable or ready to agree. If everyone is ready to agree then contention never happens because we work out our disagreements.

So we have to go a little further back-it's not that the devil stirs up contention-it's that he confounds truth with lies. Confounding truth with lies is at the root of disagreement and an unwillingness to be willing to agree on truth (i.e. the idea that everyone has their own truth) leads to contention. And therefore contention truly is of the Devil.

I don't believe you are accurate in stating who is or who isn't a part of the Body. All Christians who are baptized (or who have shown a willingness by being baptized to join with Christ) and believe in Christ are part of his Body-some are further from His Heart than others-but if one believes in Christ, you are part of His Body.

When Christ comes again, there will be Christians from all sects who will be with Him, not just us.

[The Airbender]

You are a very wise man, sir.

Elder S. Dilworth Young said:
“You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

I was on a mission about 5 months ago, and was out about a year. The Lord impressed upon my mind that it was time for me to come home. The story is a bit complicated, but I was struggling with the mission culture and false teachings we were spreading as missionaries. I was sick of the neglect of the simple doctrine of Christ, and all of the hypocrisy I saw in the church. We were teaching salvation in everything but Christ. I wanted to teach by the spirit and proclaim the gospel. I also fervently dissected the doctrine of Christ in the Book of Mormon. I noticed I had not been born again and received the gift of the Holy Ghost. I was taught by the Lord that most missionaries haven’t either. I wondered about how the lord invited the early church apostles to seek for their “endowment from on High”, the gift of the Holy Ghost, so that they could teach with power. It thought often, Who am I to teach and invite others to receive this gift when I haven’t obtained it myself? There were many other things I was struggling to figure out on my mission. Feel free to ask any questions about it.


After I received the revelation from the Lord to go home early, I prayed for a whole week wrestling with this idea. The lord told me it was for a wise purpose and that I must come home to seek my baptism of fire. I knew in my heart it was right but was troubled of how others would react.

I told my mission President, and it led to me having a discussion with my stake president over phone. My stake president argued that the prophets “say every able bodied young man should serve a FULL time mission”, and he didn’t understand why I would need to go home and that I would not be fulfilling my duty if I didn’t serve full time (but allowed me the choice nonetheless). I ended up coming home early.

I know what the lord told me was true.

Sure the Prophet said to serve a full time mission. Sure it is a good thing. But for many, a full time mission isn’t part of one’s journey. For me, the lord has something else in mind.God knows us and knows what’s best for us. I trust in him.

The things God commands could be unconventional. The things the Lord tells you through revelation, are his commandments and words. We should listen to personal revelation above anything else.

My actions were against the words of the prophet. But my actions were in line with God’s will.

President Romney once said: “I assure you, however, that the spirit of the Lord will never direct a person to take a position in opposition to the counsel of the Presidency of His Church.”

I am here to say this is not true.

[The Airbender]

Elder S. Dilworth Young said:
“You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

I was on a mission about 5 months ago, and was out about a year. The Lord impressed upon my mind that it was time for me to come home. The story is a bit complicated, but I was struggling with the mission culture and false teachings we were spreading as missionaries. I was sick of the neglect of the simple doctrine of Christ, and all of the hypocrisy I saw in the church. We were teaching salvation in everything but Christ. I wanted to teach by the spirit and proclaim the gospel. I also fervently dissected the doctrine of Christ in the Book of Mormon. I noticed I had not been born again and received the gift of the Holy Ghost. I was taught by the Lord that most missionaries haven’t either. I wondered about how the lord invited the early church apostles to seek for their “endowment from on High”, the gift of the Holy Ghost, so that they could teach with power. It thought often, Who am I to teach and invite others to receive this gift when I haven’t obtained it myself? There were many other things I was struggling to figure out on my mission. Feel free to ask any questions about it.


After I received the revelation from the Lord to go home early, I prayed for a whole week wrestling with this idea. The lord told me it was for a wise purpose and that I must come home to seek my baptism of fire. I knew in my heart it was right but was troubled of how others would react.

I told my mission President, and it led to me having a discussion with my stake president over phone. My stake president argued that the prophets “say every able bodied young man should serve a FULL time mission”, and he didn’t understand why I would need to go home and that I would not be fulfilling my duty if I didn’t serve full time (but allowed me the choice nonetheless). I ended up coming home early.

I know what the lord told me was true.

Sure the Prophet said to serve a full time mission. Sure it is a good thing. But for many, a full time mission isn’t part of one’s journey. For me, the lord has something else in mind.God knows us and knows what’s best for us. I trust in him.

The things God commands could be unconventional. The things the Lord tells you through revelation, are his commandments and words. We should listen to personal revelation above anything else.

My actions were against the words of the prophet. But my actions were in line with God’s will.

President Romney once said: “I assure you, however, that the spirit of the Lord will never direct a person to take a position in opposition to the counsel of the Presidency of His Church.”

I am here to say this is not true.

I think you just wanted to quit but needed an excuse.

Of course you do.

[The Airbender]

And you never should. You are to be commended.

What "false teachings" was your mission teaching?

What hypocrisy did you witness in the church that would cause you to go home?

I agree with a good portion of what you wrote with regards to following the spirit and such, but I'm confused when you wrote these statements as to the prelude to your pondering going home.

Things like baptism of water washes away sins, and the sacrament makes you clean. I heard the leadership including an area 70 teach the missionaries that the number of baptisms was the most important thing. We were teaching that salvation is in the temple, and we were denying the power of God. I saw a lot of pride. We would boast in our success as missionaries. We would boast about how our church was best to other people. Service projects (even the ones done by the mission overall) were done without charity and focused on pushing the name of the church out to others, and not to fully help others. Everything had nothing to do with Christ. I read through the Book of Mormon and saw all of the prophecies come to pass in our day in our church. I saw the missionaries put down others from other faiths and mock and laugh at humble Christians. I saw bickering. I saw missionaries leave the beggars on the street and pass them by as if they were nobody. I saw lessons and discussions without the spirit. I saw class separation. I saw missionaries without the gift of the Holy Ghost. I saw humble repentant sinners denied baptism because they couldn’t abandon smoking. I saw self righteousness. I saw idol worship. Pride and prejudice abounded. I saw the Doctrine of Christ was changed and added upon. “All is well in Zion” was the common theme among the mission.

I took all of this in. I struggled for months of heartbreak, and loneliness, and fear until I asked the lord what I should do, and he told me to come home, and seek the baptism of fire.

I left because the Lord told me to, and I can’t deny that.

[johnBob]

And you never will. You are to be commended.

What "false teachings" was your mission teaching?

What hypocrisy did you witness in the church that would cause you to go home?

I agree with a good portion of what you wrote with regards to following the spirit and such, but I'm confused when you wrote these statements as to the prelude to your pondering going home.

Things like baptism of water washes away sins, and the sacrament makes you clean. I heard the leadership including an area 70 teach the missionaries that the number of baptisms was the most important thing. We were teaching that salvation is in the temple, and we were denying the power of God. I saw a lot of pride. We would boast in our success as missionaries. We would boast about how our church was best to other people. Service projects (even the ones done by the mission overall) were done without charity and focused on pushing the name of the church out to others, and not to fully help others. Everything had nothing to do with Christ. I read through the Book of Mormon and saw all of the prophecies come to pass in our day in our church. I saw the missionaries put down others from other faiths and mock and laugh at humble Christians. I saw bickering. I saw missionaries leave the beggars on the street and pass them by as if they were nobody. I saw lessons and discussions without the spirit. I saw class separation. I saw missionaries without the gift of the Holy Ghost. I saw humble repentant sinners denied baptism because they couldn’t abandon smoking. I saw self righteousness. I saw idol worship. Pride and prejudice abounded. I saw the Doctrine of Christ was changed and added upon. “All is well in Zion” was the common theme among the mission.

I took all of this in. I struggled for months of heartbreak, and loneliness, and fear until I asked the lord what I should do, and he told me to come home, and seek the baptism of fire.

I left because the Lord told me to, and I can’t deny that.

We'll applaud a young man for quitting a mission and claiming that God told him to quit a mission.
Yet if this same young man claimed that God told him to fornicate with a young lady we'd tell him no?
Or say if this young man was married and now claimed God told him that he should go be an adulterer, you'd tell him he's being deceived?

Or would you never tell him that and simply state-if you believe God tells you to kill yourself-go ahead and do it?

Do you have limits on this "meta"? Or are there no limits and as long as I feel good in my heart and feel God has told me yes I can do whatever is necessary? Maybe fly a plane into a buildings? Kill infidels? Where is the bound to this?

[The Airbender]

I want to make it clear that the hard events of my mission were not an excuse to come home. I would have stayed out there and struggled a whole other year, or however long if that was what the Lord wanted. In fact, it was only a few months into my mission that I was questioning staying out. I asked and the Lord told me to stay, and that he would tell me when my “time here was over.” It wasn’t until a year out that the Lord told me it was time.

I was using this post to explain my story, to just let things out that have been bottled up so long, and to show what I understand in terms of following the spirit.

The older I get the more I become convinced most people don't have a clue when God is talking to them or when they are really hearing themselves or when they hear other spirits.

I hear and see so many people saying things like the above but just switch out the context-it could be anything from "God told me to divorce my wife" to "God told me to start dating the same-sex".

I'm not convinced you have the slightest clue of when God is talking to you and when He's not.

Quite frankly, if you are/were so convinced it was God talking to you-you wouldn't need to come anonymously on some internet website looking for support that it really was God talking to you.

I wasn’t asking for support or other people’s opinion to know if the Lord truly spoke to me. I came to share an example.My point was that the Lord’s commands could be unconventional at times and that we should always do what the Lord tells you to do.

I am not setting myself above you. I am not saying I am more righteous than you. I am not bragging. This post was for your benefit, not mine.

Right and I'm sure the next thing I'll hear from some other joker who believes "God" spoke to them by giving them an "unconventional" command is that it's cool for 2 men to date and get married.

Please . . . I don't think so.

The Lord works in mysterious ways, JohnBob.

[The Airbender]

And you never will. You are to be commended.

What "false teachings" was your mission teaching?

What hypocrisy did you witness in the church that would cause you to go home?

I agree with a good portion of what you wrote with regards to following the spirit and such, but I'm confused when you wrote these statements as to the prelude to your pondering going home.

Things like baptism of water washes away sins, and the sacrament makes you clean. I heard the leadership including an area 70 teach the missionaries that the number of baptisms was the most important thing. We were teaching that salvation is in the temple, and we were denying the power of God. I saw a lot of pride. We would boast in our success as missionaries. We would boast about how our church was best to other people. Service projects (even the ones done by the mission overall) were done without charity and focused on pushing the name of the church out to others, and not to fully help others. Everything had nothing to do with Christ. I read through the Book of Mormon and saw all of the prophecies come to pass in our day in our church. I saw the missionaries put down others from other faiths and mock and laugh at humble Christians. I saw bickering. I saw missionaries leave the beggars on the street and pass them by as if they were nobody. I saw lessons and discussions without the spirit. I saw class separation. I saw missionaries without the gift of the Holy Ghost. I saw humble repentant sinners denied baptism because they couldn’t abandon smoking. I saw self righteousness. I saw idol worship. Pride and prejudice abounded. I saw the Doctrine of Christ was changed and added upon. “All is well in Zion” was the common theme among the mission.

I took all of this in. I struggled for months of heartbreak, and loneliness, and fear until I asked the lord what I should do, and he told me to come home, and seek the baptism of fire.

I left because the Lord told me to, and I can’t deny that.

We'll applaud a young man for quitting a mission and claiming that God told him to quit a mission.
Yet if this same young man claimed that God told him to fornicate with a young lady we'd tell him no?
Or say if this young man was married and now claimed God told him that he should go be an adulterer, you'd tell him he's being deceived?

Or would you never tell him that and simply state-if you believe God tells you to kill yourself-go ahead and do it?

Do you have limits on this "meta"? Or are there no limits and as long as I feel good in my heart and feel God has told me yes I can do whatever is necessary? Maybe fly a plane into a buildings? Kill infidels? Where is the bound to this?

The Lord is the one who sets the bounds and the only way to know if the Lord gave someone else a command is to ask the Lord yourself.

[johnBob]

The older I get the more I become convinced most people don't have a clue when God is talking to them or when they are really hearing themselves or when they hear other spirits.

I hear and see so many people saying things like the above but just switch out the context-it could be anything from "God told me to divorce my wife" to "God told me to start dating the same-sex".

I'm not convinced you have the slightest clue of when God is talking to you and when He's not.

Quite frankly, if you are/were so convinced it was God talking to you-you wouldn't need to come anonymously on some internet website looking for support that it really was God talking to you.

I wasn’t asking for support or other people’s opinion to know if the Lord truly spoke to me. I came to share an example.My point was that the Lord’s commands could be unconventional at times and that we should always do what the Lord tells you to do.

I am not setting myself above you. I am not saying I am more righteous than you. I am not bragging. This post was for your benefit, not mine.

Right and I'm sure the next thing I'll hear from some other joker who believes "God" spoke to them by giving them an "unconventional" command is that it's cool for 2 men to date and get married.

Please . . . I don't think so.

The Lord works in mysterious ways, JohnBob.

I don't think most people would know God if he stood right next to them.

We are for sure in the end times when there is absolutely no bounds on thinking, behavior or ideas. If one proclaims it's from God, regardless if it overturns everything written about God-we should just bow down and worship the man who revealed such thing.

Despicable . . .this religion won't hold together much longer with this type of new age thinking.