Kinda done with church

[Connie561]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

I'm curious,
do you really think that the thousands of faithful Christians out there; just ordinary people like you and me,
that don't attend church, and that really love the Lord,; yes, they really do, and serve Him, are completely lost just because they don't attend a church, and are not Mormons ?
so I guess then that everyone that believes in Jesus Christ, but that's not Mormon, is completely lost ?
And to know Jesus Christ, I have to become a Mormon first.
I don't think so.
which is better -
to be a member of the church, but not know Jesus Christ.
or know Jesus Christ, not being a member of the church.

The question he asked is to members of the church. If you are not a member than the question would not apply to you. You see he is asking people who have testimonies of the restoration.

[Bronco73idi]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

I'm curious,
do you really think that the thousands of faithful Christians out there; just ordinary people like you and me,
that don't attend church, and that really love the Lord,; yes, they really do, and serve Him, are completely lost just because they don't attend a church, and are not Mormons ?
so I guess then that everyone that believes in Jesus Christ, but that's not Mormon, is completely lost ?
And to know Jesus Christ, I have to become a Mormon first.
I don't think so.
which is better -
to be a member of the church, but not know Jesus Christ.
or know Jesus Christ, not being a member of the church.

Your light might be lit but do you have extra oil? I don’t know, only you can answer this.

How many do you know that know the lord?

Every self proclaimed “bible thumper” I have meet insult roughly 1.2 billion Christians by saying “Catholic is not Christian”. The lord would never say that, he knows there are some really good and faithful Catholics. So do the self proclaimed “bible thumpers” really know the lord?

[Elva1045]

The Lord has used symbolic ordinances to teach and remind His people the importance of gospel principles.

What is the meaning of the word sacrament? I did some research and found this: The word originally meant “a result of consecration” or “a means of consecrating, dedicating, or securing by a religious sanction” (Oxford English Dictionary, s.v. “sacrament”). Sacrament eventually came to designate a sacred religious observance.

Remembering Christ's atoning sacrifice is of utmost importance.

In 3rd Nephi 18:1-39, we can read about when Jesus Christ came to the Nephites and instituted the Sacrament. In verse 6, the Lord commanded us by saying, "And this shall ye always observe to do, even as I have done, even as I have broken bread and blessed it and given unto you."

In verse 7, He says, "And this shall ye do in remembrance of my body, which I have shown unto you. And it shall be a testimony unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you."

In verse 10, it says, "And when the disciples had done this, Jesus said unto them: Blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done, for this is fulfilling my commandments, and this doth witness unto the Father that ye are willing to do that which I have commanded you."

In verse 11, He says, "And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you."

And in verse 12, He says, "And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock."

In verses 28-29, the Lord talks about those who partake unworthily, "And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it;
For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him.

In Doctrine & Covenants, the Lord said, "It is expedient that the church meet together often to partake of bread and wine in the remembrance of the Lord Jesus” (D&C 20:75).

Jesus Christ Himself revealed the exact wording for the Sacramental Prayers. Here is the prayer that is offered to bless the bread:

“O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen” (D&C 20:77).

And here is the prayer that is offered to bless the water:

“O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine [water] to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen” (D&C 20:79).

What is a covenant? A covenant is a sacred promise/agreement between God and man. As we read the prayers, we see that the covenants we make are clearly stated in the sacramental prayers. It is important to know what those covenants are and what they mean.

We covenant that we are willing to take upon ourselves the name of Jesus Christ.
We covenant to always remember Jesus Christ.
We promise to keep His commandments.

The Lord promises that if we keep our covenants, we will always have His Spirit to be with us.

In Doctrine and Covenants 59:9–10 the Lord revealed, “And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; for verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High.”

So, according to all these scriptures, the Lord Himself has commanded that we partake of the Sacrament in remembrance of His Atoning Sacrifice. We are to meet regularly on His holy day and pay our devotions.

There is additional symbolism with Jesus being the Bread of Life and the Living Water.

Elva1045

[BeNotDeceived]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

I'm curious,
do you really think that the thousands of faithful Christians out there; just ordinary people like you and me,
that don't attend church, and that really love the Lord,; yes, they really do, and serve Him, are completely lost just because they don't attend a church, and are not Mormons ?
so I guess then that everyone that believes in Jesus Christ, but that's not Mormon, is completely lost ?
And to know Jesus Christ, I have to become a Mormon first.
I don't think so.
which is better -
to be a member of the church, but not know Jesus Christ.
or know Jesus Christ, not being a member of the church.

Fence Sitters can abide their position ‘till 7years prosperity doth transition.

Sitters, but not razor wire fence. dbnp

[LDS Physician]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

Where do the scriptures say that partaking of the sacrament “renews your covenants”? Where is it “commanded to renew your covenants”?

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

[LDS Physician]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

I'm curious,
do you really think that the thousands of faithful Christians out there; just ordinary people like you and me,
that don't attend church, and that really love the Lord,; yes, they really do, and serve Him, are completely lost just because they don't attend a church, and are not Mormons ?
so I guess then that everyone that believes in Jesus Christ, but that's not Mormon, is completely lost ?
And to know Jesus Christ, I have to become a Mormon first.
I don't think so.
which is better -
to be a member of the church, but not know Jesus Christ.
or know Jesus Christ, not being a member of the church.

I'm curious,
do you really think that I said anything about the thousands of faithful Christians out there; just ordinary people like you and me, that don't attend church, and that really love the Lord...are lost?

I never said anything like that nor was I referring to those people. I was referring to a different set of people.

Those thousands of faithful Christians do not yet know of the Restoration of the gospel through the prophet Joseph Smith. That ignorance along with the atonement prevent them from being lost.

A person who has a testimony of the restored gospel but chooses not to partake of the sacrament ordinance or otherwise participate in the restored church...those are the people I was asking about.

Why are you assuming that I was referring to something else?

The way that I think may surprise you, in fact. The Buddhist in China, the Muslim in Iran...people who have no testimony of the Savior himself will be just fine. They're children of God and his son's atonement blankets them all. They will eventually come to the knowledge of the truth and they'll be "saved" along with the rest of us...unless they don't want to be, of course.

[Alexander]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

Where do the scriptures say that partaking of the sacrament “renews your covenants”? Where is it “commanded to renew your covenants”?

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

[LDS Physician]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

Where do the scriptures say that partaking of the sacrament “renews your covenants”? Where is it “commanded to renew your covenants”?

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

[Alexander]

Where do the scriptures say that partaking of the sacrament “renews your covenants”? Where is it “commanded to renew your covenants”?

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

[Zathura]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

Where do the scriptures say that partaking of the sacrament “renews your covenants”? Where is it “commanded to renew your covenants”?

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

It ties in to the false version of the doctrine of Christ that many Mormons have. This idea where we are somehow in need of re-cleansing every Sunday , in need of a “rebaptism” otherwise we won’t be sanctified, this idea that the sanctification and remission of sin we supposedly received upon reception of the Holy Ghost only lasts until what, the next time we make a mistake?

It’s no surprise he just quoted general conference. The scriptures don’t teach this false doctrine. One apostle recently admitted as much but still claimed that doesn’t make it untrue.

[Zathura]

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

These quotes just go ignored. Doesn’t matter how often it’s quoted. People hear what they want to hear, heed what they want to heed.

[Alaris]

I believe I have reached my boredom breaking point at church. I know people will say "you get out what you put into it," but I am tired of the same pablum lesson for the umpteenth time. General Conference talks are just repeats and old quotes and are usually pretty lame. I am repeatedly told to pay my tithing but my chapel is falling apart and the roof is leaking today. So I asked myself "what am I getting out of the church that is worth my time and effort?" The only answer is "not much." I am separating the gospel and the church. I can sit at home and do my own studying and be much more content than sitting in an elders quorum where they spend the first 25 minutes yapping about some ghetto thug who can throw a ball in a hoop. I have put 40 plus years into the church and today I believe I am done.

I can relate, though there have been some powerful gems as of late at General Conference imho.

I invite you to read these two introductory articles on the seven spiritual levels of mankind and on the end times' King David. I have had a few reach out to me with similar complaints who were grateful to have something meaty to digest:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... nkind.html
https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... rvant.html

When we have a broader perspective of who we are, where we are, and where we are going, we can see more clearly where we fit in the world and within the church and understand our purpose even better.

[LDS Physician]

Apostle Elder Robert D. Hales:

“Each week in sacrament meeting we promise to remember the atoning sacrifice of our Savior as we renew our baptismal covenant. We promise to do as the Savior did—to be obedient to the Father and always keep His commandments. The blessing we receive in return is to always have His Spirit to be with us.”

Apostle Elder L. Tom Perry:

"The purpose of partaking of the sacrament is, of course, to renew the covenants we have made with the Lord. Elder Delbert L. Stapley instructed us in this when he said this about covenants: 'The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is a covenant between God and His people. When baptized by authorized servants of God, we covenant to do God's will and to obey His commandments. By taking of the sacrament, we renew all covenants entered into with the Lord and pledge ourselves to take upon us the name of the Son, to always remember Him and keep His commandments."'"

The Lord in D&C 1:38:

"38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

Thanks. I have and do. The answer? The sacrament renews my baptismal covenants and I should listen to and follow the apostles and the prophet.

[Alexander]

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

Thanks. I have and do. The answer? The sacrament renews my baptismal covenants and I should listen to and follow the apostles and the prophet.

You can believe what you may, as can I. I’ve been told by the lord the sacrament is merely a symbol.

[erichard]

Aprhys: The D&C is FULL of instructions that the church does not live by.

Yet the faithful covenant to "live the law of the Gospel in the Doctrine and Covenants". D&C 51:2 says the church will be cut off if it does not live by the Lord's laws. D&C 43:8-10 says that if the elders do not act upon the points of the D&C law that blessings and glory shall be taken from them. D&C 132:66 and AoF 9 promise that more will be revealed concerning the New and Everlasting covenant and other doctrines, but the church has never qualified yet to receive further Word of the Lord oracle revelations. Surely all is not well in Zion.

Why not do everything YOU can do to live by those laws within your family and set an example? And why not claim your right to "stand or fall by yourself" as the scriptures teach? That includes the right to NOT sustain any leader, including the church President, until any legitimate controversy over them is settled fairly. Right?

44 Therefore, let EVERY MAN [which includes Aprhys] stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another. ...
46 And if thine eye [the Prophet] which seeth for thee, him that is appointed to watch over thee to show thee light, become a transgressor and offend thee, pluck him out. --JST Mark 9

One may think that God would never allow the church President to transgress and fail. But the above verse indicates otherwise. In fact, instructions are given for dealing with him in such cases:

82 And inasmuch as a President of the High Priesthood shall transgress ... Read D&C 107:82-84

[SempiternalHarbinger]

The sacrament is a symbol of Christ. The bread and water don’t rebaptize us, they don’t renew our covenants (there is overlap of our baptismal covenant, but it is a symbol and reminder) and they don’t forgive us of our sins.

I think the idea that the sacrament “renews our covenants” is a false tradition of men.

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

Thanks. I have and do. The answer? The sacrament renews my baptismal covenants and I should listen to and follow the apostles and the prophet.

You are missing the point. Don't you see the problem if a teaching/doctrine cannot be supported by scripture? It provides us with a litmus test in discerning truth vs falsehoods. On top of that, Joseph Smith taught the saints to NEVER accept any teaching or doctrine that was not in harmony with or that is contradictory to the scriptures. (*LOF were scripture at that time )

Joseph Smith. . .
"If any man preaches to you, doctrines contrary to the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or the Book of Doctrine & Covenants, set him down as an imposter... Try them by the principles contained in the acknowledged word of God; if they preach, or teach, or practice contrary to that, disfellowship them; cut them off from among you as useless and dangerous branches." -Joseph Smith, Times & Seasons, 5:490-491, April, 1, 1844.

Everywhere you turn there are the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. Wrest not the scriptures to your destruction.

From one of my favorite posters on the forum.
Is the Sacrament to Renew Baptismal Covenants?
viewtopic.php?t=35892

[Phantom]

I don't understand this at all. If you're really separating "the Church from the Gospel" then attendance wouldn't be an issue at all. You're not going to be entertained, are you? Do you really know anything about true worship? What about your covenants?

Which covenants, specifically?

Well, if you don't know the answer to that question then I guess you really are done. Peace.

[Thinker]

I don't understand this at all. If you're really separating "the Church from the Gospel" then attendance wouldn't be an issue at all. You're not going to be entertained, are you? Do you really know anything about true worship? What about your covenants?

Which covenants, specifically?

Well, if you don't know the answer to that question then I guess you really are done. Peace.

I’d like to know what covenants you refer to as well.
I know of many references to covenants.
Which are most important - and what do they entail on a daily basis?

[Phantom]

I don't understand this at all. If you're really separating "the Church from the Gospel" then attendance wouldn't be an issue at all. You're not going to be entertained, are you? Do you really know anything about true worship? What about your covenants?

Which covenants, specifically?

Well, if you don't know the answer to that question then I guess you really are done. Peace.

I’d like to know what covenants you refer to as well.
I know of many references to covenants.
Which are most important - and what do they entail on a daily basis?

Nope, not going there. It is clear to me that the spirit of this thread reflects something entirely different than what is worthy of my further discussion within it. I believe what I would share would just be mocked and adversely debated. You all know where I'm going and you're ready to pounce.

Not having it.

[Original_Intent]

Then we know where you stand.

I'll believe the apostles who have taught us that partaking of the sacrament renews our covenants instead of what some guy named TylerDurden says on the internet (and that name, if you think about it, should at least raise some red flags).

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

Thanks. I have and do. The answer? The sacrament renews my baptismal covenants and I should listen to and follow the apostles and the prophet.

You can believe what you may, as can I. I’ve been told by the lord the sacrament is merely a symbol.

Same here. An important symbol, though.

[SPIRIT]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

I'm curious,
do you really think that the thousands of faithful Christians out there; just ordinary people like you and me,
that don't attend church, and that really love the Lord,; yes, they really do, and serve Him, are completely lost just because they don't attend a church, and are not Mormons ?
so I guess then that everyone that believes in Jesus Christ, but that's not Mormon, is completely lost ?
And to know Jesus Christ, I have to become a Mormon first.
I don't think so.
which is better -
to be a member of the church, but not know Jesus Christ.
or know Jesus Christ, not being a member of the church.

Fence Sitters can abide their position ‘till 7years prosperity doth transition.

Sitters, but not razor wire fence. dbnp

sorry but, I don't believe in 7 years of prosperity.
We've already had much more prosperity than we deserve;
certainly more than 7 years.
I do believe it's now time for the judgments to come and for the 6 or 7 years of tribulations to start. Most likely this year.
2020, I believe, is the year everything will start to change more rapidly.
The things we thought were conspiracy theories are now showing themselves.
The Globalists will stop at nothing and are pushing their NWO agenda more than ever now.

[cab]

I'm curious about those who don't attend but who say they have a testimony of the restoration, the priesthood, etc. How do you renew your covenants as commanded by way of the sacrament? Temple ordinances?

I'm pretty sure that the only way the scriptures say that we "renew our covenants" is by continually repenting and retaining a remission of our sins.

[cab]

I don't understand this at all. If you're really separating "the Church from the Gospel" then attendance wouldn't be an issue at all. You're not going to be entertained, are you? Do you really know anything about true worship? What about your covenants?

Which covenants, specifically?

Well, if you don't know the answer to that question then I guess you really are done. Peace.

I’d like to know what covenants you refer to as well.
I know of many references to covenants.
Which are most important - and what do they entail on a daily basis?

Perhaps he's referring to the fresh from the press, flavor of the month, newly introduced precept of man we call "the covenant path"...

[Alexander]

Don’t take my word for it or the apostles’ word for it. Seek revelation from God to know if it’s true or not.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”

Elder S. Dilworth Young “You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.”

Thanks. I have and do. The answer? The sacrament renews my baptismal covenants and I should listen to and follow the apostles and the prophet.

You can believe what you may, as can I. I’ve been told by the lord the sacrament is merely a symbol.

Same here. An important symbol, though.

Oh yes. A very important symbol

[Alexander]

I mean if the church meeting thing doesn’t seem a good fit, that’s ok. The important thing is about coming to the lord. The program of the church (recently rebranded but was always supposed to be the same) is family oriented and church supported.