Multiple mortalities?

[nightlight]

More from KFD:

These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

Joseph is talking about the Resurrection of the Just there. I think the general sense of the people on this forum who are in favor of reincarnation is that it is what the unjust and/or non-accountable will experience in the afterlife.

Jesus was a spirit.....not a resurrected man.

These "theories" fall apart when we apply the Oracle to them

We all believe (or at least I think we all do) that Jesus was God from before the foundation of the world. We also believe (or at least I think we all do) that having a mortal experience is necessary to progress to Godhood. The mainstream LDS church doesn't try to reconcile these two beliefs. Some people on this forum do.

I'm addressing those who think they will leave their resurrected/exalted bodies to become the "new Jesus " to....actually, I'm not sure who they think they'll be Jesus to, they never give me an answer. I suppose they think it will be for their spirit children, but that doesn't line up with the Format. Our Father didn't redeem us...our Brother did.

Christ becomes our Father as we are born again in him. This same relationship is what Jesus has with his Father, and his father with his, etc. So I mean yes, our father did redeem us. Jesus is the father and the son.

Side note:
If Christ is doing only what the Father hath already done, and we are to become like Jesus (God) we must follow in his footsteps also.

The Righteous to Dwell in Everlasting Burnings
These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
--------------

Jesus is not the author of my Soul. He becomes my Father through adoption. His Father is my Father.

You use Joseph Smith words to validate becoming the new Jesus....but right after he said the above^^^

You do you think you'll be Jesus to?

[nightlight]

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to learn that some LDS members believe in reincarnation. There are people who believe that Satan and his host will also be forgiven and given the chance to recieve bodies and a degree of glory. It really is a pleasing (to the ear) message for those that want to believe that we literally have eternity and beyond to "get it right". The message of repentance falls on deaf ears when there is assurance of a "do over" in case they decide to enjoy life now, and will do better the next life.

I don't think that the people here who believe in reincarnation generally conceive it as a do-over.

It really seems to have more to do with a belief that the things we're sent to Earth to do often can't be accomplished in one lifetime, especially if that lifetime involves dying in childhood or never knowing much about the Gospel. The plain fact is that people go through life with vastly different degrees of knowledge, opportunity, and accountability, and reincarnation has a lot of appeal as an equalizing factor.

^
Semantics.

You can dress it up how you like. It means the same thing. You werent righteous enough, didnt learn enough, spent your days partying, etc... you get to live it again to do better next time. The scriptures speak plainly though and this is not the case. The BOM puts the nail on the coffin by explaining that once we are resurrected, we cannot go thru death again, or the seperation of the spirit from ones body. Yet, here we go, people saying we can live and die multiple times.

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

Don't try to change scriptures to fit your views. It clearly say we won't be separated from our bodies again

[nightlight]

So you guys think you'll leave EverlastingBurnings & your CelestialBody to become the new Christ based on your human logic and a few lines from KFD???

[Alexander]

Joseph is talking about the Resurrection of the Just there. I think the general sense of the people on this forum who are in favor of reincarnation is that it is what the unjust and/or non-accountable will experience in the afterlife.



We all believe (or at least I think we all do) that Jesus was God from before the foundation of the world. We also believe (or at least I think we all do) that having a mortal experience is necessary to progress to Godhood. The mainstream LDS church doesn't try to reconcile these two beliefs. Some people on this forum do.

I'm addressing those who think they will leave their resurrected/exalted bodies to become the "new Jesus " to....actually, I'm not sure who they think they'll be Jesus to, they never give me an answer. I suppose they think it will be for their spirit children, but that doesn't line up with the Format. Our Father didn't redeem us...our Brother did.

Christ becomes our Father as we are born again in him. This same relationship is what Jesus has with his Father, and his father with his, etc. So I mean yes, our father did redeem us. Jesus is the father and the son.

Side note:
If Christ is doing only what the Father hath already done, and we are to become like Jesus (God) we must follow in his footsteps also.

The Righteous to Dwell in Everlasting Burnings
These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
--------------

Jesus is not the author of my Soul. He becomes my Father through adoption. His Father is my Father.

You use Joseph Smith words to validate becoming the new Jesus....but right after he said the above^^^

You do you think you'll be Jesus to?

Jesus must do as The Father has done. Jesus will have to appoint one of his sons as a Christ to be the savior of a world. Otherwise it would break the everlasting covenant.

Joseph’s quote on consoling talks about us becoming joint heirs of Christ. We will inherit all that Christ has, but only as we do what he has already done. To be a joint heir with Christ is to inherit the mantle and mission of a Christ (to fulfil the atonement)

I’m not saying I will be the new Jesus, because that authority is only in Christ’s hands. I’m saying the role of a Christ is key to the everlasting covenant. It must continue.

[Art Vandelay]

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to learn that some LDS members believe in reincarnation. There are people who believe that Satan and his host will also be forgiven and given the chance to recieve bodies and a degree of glory. It really is a pleasing (to the ear) message for those that want to believe that we literally have eternity and beyond to "get it right". The message of repentance falls on deaf ears when there is assurance of a "do over" in case they decide to enjoy life now, and will do better the next life.

I don't think that the people here who believe in reincarnation generally conceive it as a do-over.

It really seems to have more to do with a belief that the things we're sent to Earth to do often can't be accomplished in one lifetime, especially if that lifetime involves dying in childhood or never knowing much about the Gospel. The plain fact is that people go through life with vastly different degrees of knowledge, opportunity, and accountability, and reincarnation has a lot of appeal as an equalizing factor.

So what happens in the spirit world after you die? What does section 138 teach? Where in the scriptures does it teach about "an equalizing factor"?
There's a parable about the laborers in the vineyard that teaches differently than equality and fairness.
As Elder Holland said-
My beloved brothers and sisters, to those of you who have been blessed by the gospel for many years because you were fortunate enough to find it early, to those of you who have come to the gospel by stages and phases later, and to those of you—members and not yet members—who may still be hanging back, to each of you, one and all, I testify of the renewing power of God’s love and the miracle of His grace. His concern is for the faith at which you finally arrive, not the hour of the day in which you got there.

[Davka]

I don't think that the people here who believe in reincarnation generally conceive it as a do-over.

It really seems to have more to do with a belief that the things we're sent to Earth to do often can't be accomplished in one lifetime, especially if that lifetime involves dying in childhood or never knowing much about the Gospel. The plain fact is that people go through life with vastly different degrees of knowledge, opportunity, and accountability, and reincarnation has a lot of appeal as an equalizing factor.

^
Semantics.

You can dress it up how you like. It means the same thing. You werent righteous enough, didnt learn enough, spent your days partying, etc... you get to live it again to do better next time. The scriptures speak plainly though and this is not the case. The BOM puts the nail on the coffin by explaining that once we are resurrected, we cannot go thru death again, or the seperation of the spirit from ones body. Yet, here we go, people saying we can live and die multiple times.

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

Don't try to change scriptures to fit your views. It clearly say we won't be separated from our bodies again

Totally not trying to be contentious here, just want to ask an honest question and make a point.

Do you agree with the standard LDS understanding that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents? To become gods and oversee our own worlds?

[nightlight]

I'm addressing those who think they will leave their resurrected/exalted bodies to become the "new Jesus " to....actually, I'm not sure who they think they'll be Jesus to, they never give me an answer. I suppose they think it will be for their spirit children, but that doesn't line up with the Format. Our Father didn't redeem us...our Brother did.

Christ becomes our Father as we are born again in him. This same relationship is what Jesus has with his Father, and his father with his, etc. So I mean yes, our father did redeem us. Jesus is the father and the son.

Side note:
If Christ is doing only what the Father hath already done, and we are to become like Jesus (God) we must follow in his footsteps also.

The Righteous to Dwell in Everlasting Burnings
These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
--------------

Jesus is not the author of my Soul. He becomes my Father through adoption. His Father is my Father.

You use Joseph Smith words to validate becoming the new Jesus....but right after he said the above^^^

You do you think you'll be Jesus to?

Jesus must do as The Father has done. Jesus will have to appoint one of his sons as a Christ to be the savior of a world. Otherwise it would break the everlasting covenant.

Joseph’s quote on consoling talks about us becoming joint heirs of Christ. We will inherit all that Christ has, but only as we do what he has already done. To be a joint heir with Christ is to inherit the mantle and mission of a Christ (to fulfil the atonement)

I’m not saying I will be the new Jesus, because that authority is only in Christ’s hands. I’m saying the role of a Christ is key to the everlasting covenant. It must continue.

Christ is the Savior of ALL the worlds.

Who will the new Jesus be Jesus to?

My uncle didn't save me....my Brother did

[nightlight]

"They shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ."

Did Christ not suffer? ?????

You guys can't use this!!!!

[Alexander]

"They shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ."

Did Christ not suffer? ?????

You guys can't use this!!!!

So was Joseph lying when he said that God was once a man like us?

[nightlight]

^
Semantics.

You can dress it up how you like. It means the same thing. You werent righteous enough, didnt learn enough, spent your days partying, etc... you get to live it again to do better next time. The scriptures speak plainly though and this is not the case. The BOM puts the nail on the coffin by explaining that once we are resurrected, we cannot go thru death again, or the seperation of the spirit from ones body. Yet, here we go, people saying we can live and die multiple times.

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

Don't try to change scriptures to fit your views. It clearly say we won't be separated from our bodies again

Totally not trying to be contentious here, just want to ask an honest question and make a point.

Do you agree with the standard LDS understanding that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents? To become gods and oversee our own worlds?

Yes.

I believe I'll achieve this the same way you will...by becoming one with Jesus.

Once I do this I come to an understanding of ALL THINGS.

Do you believe you'll leave your Celestial Body to become the new Eve???? Somehow that will make you a God?

No sister...you become a God by killing your natural woman. This is how Eve became God. Not by having the first children.

You will not fall or die again...I guarantee this, sister.

[MMbelieve]

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to learn that some LDS members believe in reincarnation. There are people who believe that Satan and his host will also be forgiven and given the chance to recieve bodies and a degree of glory. It really is a pleasing (to the ear) message for those that want to believe that we literally have eternity and beyond to "get it right". The message of repentance falls on deaf ears when there is assurance of a "do over" in case they decide to enjoy life now, and will do better the next life.

I don't think that the people here who believe in reincarnation generally conceive it as a do-over.

It really seems to have more to do with a belief that the things we're sent to Earth to do often can't be accomplished in one lifetime, especially if that lifetime involves dying in childhood or never knowing much about the Gospel. The plain fact is that people go through life with vastly different degrees of knowledge, opportunity, and accountability, and reincarnation has a lot of appeal as an equalizing factor.

^
Semantics.

You can dress it up how you like. It means the same thing. You werent righteous enough, didnt learn enough, spent your days partying, etc... you get to live it again to do better next time. The scriptures speak plainly though and this is not the case. The BOM puts the nail on the coffin by explaining that once we are resurrected, we cannot go thru death again, or the seperation of the spirit from ones body. Yet, here we go, people saying we can live and die multiple times.

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

I’m not buying this one

[nightlight]

"They shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ."

Did Christ not suffer? ?????

You guys can't use this!!!!

So was Joseph lying when he said that God was once a man like us?

Not at all.

But your assuming going from Grace to Grace just means being the Christ.
This is not true.

RIGHT NOW I'M GOING FROM GRACE TO GRACE...I'M ONLY DOING WHAT I SAW MY BROTHER DO

Read the Book of Abraham. When God picked a spirit to be Christ....he didn't say "first I'll choose you....then I'll choose you.....then I'll choose that guy over there....etc" Jesus is Christ to all who come from the Father.

Your spirit children will need a Christ...it will be one of your Sons

[Believing Joseph]

Read the Book of Abraham. When God picked a spirit to be Christ....he didn't say "first I'll choose you....then I'll choose you.....then I'll choose that guy over there....etc" Jesus is Christ to all who come from the Father.

Your spirit children will need a Christ...it will be one of your Sons

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

[Alexander]

I don't think that the people here who believe in reincarnation generally conceive it as a do-over.

It really seems to have more to do with a belief that the things we're sent to Earth to do often can't be accomplished in one lifetime, especially if that lifetime involves dying in childhood or never knowing much about the Gospel. The plain fact is that people go through life with vastly different degrees of knowledge, opportunity, and accountability, and reincarnation has a lot of appeal as an equalizing factor.

^
Semantics.

You can dress it up how you like. It means the same thing. You werent righteous enough, didnt learn enough, spent your days partying, etc... you get to live it again to do better next time. The scriptures speak plainly though and this is not the case. The BOM puts the nail on the coffin by explaining that once we are resurrected, we cannot go thru death again, or the seperation of the spirit from ones body. Yet, here we go, people saying we can live and die multiple times.

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

I’m not buying this one

Helaman 14
16 ​Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the ​​​resurrection​, and ​​​redeemeth​ all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the ​​​fall​ of Adam being ​​​cut off​ from the presence of ​​the Lord, are considered as ​​​dead​, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness.

[everyone is redeemed from the first spiritual death which is hell (satans grasp, outer darkness), but it is on conditions of repentance that we are saved by the second spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from god. When we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost we are sealed to Christ in the law of adoption, and are born again in Him to become his sons and daughters. This seal is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and can’t be broken unless we sin against the Holy Ghost (become a sin of perdition by covenant with Satan and shed innocent blood]

Alma 41
2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself.

[this is the resurrection of the just. Our spirit and bodily form are reunited to continue in glory]

[MMbelieve]

^
Semantics.

You can dress it up how you like. It means the same thing. You werent righteous enough, didnt learn enough, spent your days partying, etc... you get to live it again to do better next time. The scriptures speak plainly though and this is not the case. The BOM puts the nail on the coffin by explaining that once we are resurrected, we cannot go thru death again, or the seperation of the spirit from ones body. Yet, here we go, people saying we can live and die multiple times.

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

I’m not buying this one

Helaman 14
16 ​Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the ​​​resurrection​, and ​​​redeemeth​ all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the ​​​fall​ of Adam being ​​​cut off​ from the presence of ​​the Lord, are considered as ​​​dead​, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness.

[everyone is redeemed from the first spiritual death which is hell (satans grasp, outer darkness), but it is on conditions of repentance that we are saved by the second spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from god. When we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost we are sealed to Christ in the law of adoption, and are born again in Him to become his sons and daughters. This seal is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and can’t be broken unless we sin against the Holy Ghost (become a sin of perdition by covenant with Satan and shed innocent blood]

Alma 41
2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself.

[this is the resurrection of the just. Our spirit and bodily form are reunited to continue in glory]

Must have been your original wording that didn’t sound right to me.

[Davka]

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

Don't try to change scriptures to fit your views. It clearly say we won't be separated from our bodies again

Totally not trying to be contentious here, just want to ask an honest question and make a point.

Do you agree with the standard LDS understanding that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents? To become gods and oversee our own worlds?

Yes.

I believe I'll achieve this the same way you will...by becoming one with Jesus.

Once I do this I come to an understanding of ALL THINGS.

Do you believe you'll leave your Celestial Body to become the new Eve???? Somehow that will make you a God?

No sister...you become a God by killing your natural woman. This is how Eve became God. Not by having the first children.

You will not fall or die again...I guarantee this, sister.

Thanks for answering, friend.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. As I see it, a child doesn't get to bypass growing up stages just because his older brother or sister did. They can, however, learn from older siblings and accept their help in the process. We eventually become like our parents by going through the same experiences they did. Once we've done so and have actually earned our equal status as adults, then we can be one.

[Alexander]

When the scriptures talk about not dying again, they are talking about the spirit of an individual. When one becomes born again in Christ, their spirit is resurrected and cannot die (be separated from God). [but this separation can happen if they become a son of perdition]
God talks about things in terms of spiritual.

I’m not buying this one

Helaman 14
16 ​Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the ​​​resurrection​, and ​​​redeemeth​ all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the ​​​fall​ of Adam being ​​​cut off​ from the presence of ​​the Lord, are considered as ​​​dead​, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness.

[everyone is redeemed from the first spiritual death which is hell (satans grasp, outer darkness), but it is on conditions of repentance that we are saved by the second spiritual death. Spiritual death is separation from god. When we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost we are sealed to Christ in the law of adoption, and are born again in Him to become his sons and daughters. This seal is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and can’t be broken unless we sin against the Holy Ghost (become a sin of perdition by covenant with Satan and shed innocent blood]

Alma 41
2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself.

[this is the resurrection of the just. Our spirit and bodily form are reunited to continue in glory]

Must have been your original wording that didn’t sound right to me.

Perhaps I worded it weird. What specifically was it that didn’t sound right?

[Art Vandelay]

Totally not trying to be contentious here, just want to ask an honest question and make a point.

Do you agree with the standard LDS understanding that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents? To become gods and oversee our own worlds?

I know you didn't ask me but I'll offer my understanding-

I agree that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents. I believe that's what we're trying to do, that that's the plan. Do you believe this learning process only happens in mortality?

[Art Vandelay]

We eventually become like our parents by going through the same experiences they did. Once we've done so and have actually earned our equal status as adults, then we can be one.

My parents divorced. Do I have to get a divorce too?? If I don't get divorced in this life, do I have to go through another life and hopefully get a divorce there? Should I just get a divorce now thus saving me from having to get a divorce in another life?

I see you're preaching the fairness doctrine. Have you read the parable of the Laborers? If so, why did it not change your mind? (I ask that honestly)

[nightlight]

Read the Book of Abraham. When God picked a spirit to be Christ....he didn't say "first I'll choose you....then I'll choose you.....then I'll choose that guy over there....etc" Jesus is Christ to all who come from the Father.

Your spirit children will need a Christ...it will be one of your Sons

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

[nightlight]

Don't try to change scriptures to fit your views. It clearly say we won't be separated from our bodies again

Totally not trying to be contentious here, just want to ask an honest question and make a point.

Do you agree with the standard LDS understanding that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents? To become gods and oversee our own worlds?

Yes.

I believe I'll achieve this the same way you will...by becoming one with Jesus.

Once I do this I come to an understanding of ALL THINGS.

Do you believe you'll leave your Celestial Body to become the new Eve???? Somehow that will make you a God?

No sister...you become a God by killing your natural woman. This is how Eve became God. Not by having the first children.

You will not fall or die again...I guarantee this, sister.

Thanks for answering, friend.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. As I see it, a child doesn't get to bypass growing up stages just because his older brother or sister did. They can, however, learn from older siblings and accept their help in the process. We eventually become like our parents by going through the same experiences they did. Once we've done so and have actually earned our equal status as adults, then we can be one.

How do explain Alvin Smith?

I understand he wasn't a child...the the principle applies

[Alexander]

Read the Book of Abraham. When God picked a spirit to be Christ....he didn't say "first I'll choose you....then I'll choose you.....then I'll choose that guy over there....etc" Jesus is Christ to all who come from the Father.

Your spirit children will need a Christ...it will be one of your Sons

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

[nightlight]

Read the Book of Abraham. When God picked a spirit to be Christ....he didn't say "first I'll choose you....then I'll choose you.....then I'll choose that guy over there....etc" Jesus is Christ to all who come from the Father.

Your spirit children will need a Christ...it will be one of your Sons

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

How do you know the atonement is possible now?
How do you get to know what it's like being perfect...but having sinned?
How do you deserve, yet fall short?

When we understand Love....we understand The Father, the Son...the HG...the Atonment. We understand ALL THINGS.

Christ makes you equal with Him. Hence all these bent knees


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

[nightlight]

How does the Holy Ghost make us understand things we have not experienced? ???????............

114 But agreat and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not alawful for man to utter;

116 Neither is man acapable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him;

117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves;

118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to bear his bpresence in the world of glory.

119 And to God and the Lamb be aglory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[Davka]

Totally not trying to be contentious here, just want to ask an honest question and make a point.

Do you agree with the standard LDS understanding that we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents? To become gods and oversee our own worlds?

Yes.

I believe I'll achieve this the same way you will...by becoming one with Jesus.

Once I do this I come to an understanding of ALL THINGS.

Do you believe you'll leave your Celestial Body to become the new Eve???? Somehow that will make you a God?

No sister...you become a God by killing your natural woman. This is how Eve became God. Not by having the first children.

You will not fall or die again...I guarantee this, sister.

Thanks for answering, friend.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. As I see it, a child doesn't get to bypass growing up stages just because his older brother or sister did. They can, however, learn from older siblings and accept their help in the process. We eventually become like our parents by going through the same experiences they did. Once we've done so and have actually earned our equal status as adults, then we can be one.

How do explain Alvin Smith?

I understand he wasn't a child...the the principle applies

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Dude, I still believe in a spirit world where work can be done. All it says is that if someone dies, but their character was such that they would have accepted the gospel, don't worry about it because they'll have the chance there.

What it doesn't clear up is why in the world the Lord would send 99.9999 percent of his children into a test that they were so ill prepared to pass. Why don't more people hang out with heavenly mom and dad for a few more years before they fly the coop? Maybe then they could be born as a slave in Egypt, but still into Israel, or something like that rather than into 3,000 BC China.

Based on the circumstances of Alvin's death, I think it's safe to assume that he was the kind of spirit that would have accepted the gospel in this life and did, in fact, accept it in the spirit world, which is still part of this round.

But if 99.999999 percent of the world's work and probation takes place in the spirit world, why bother with physical mortality?

Another point is that all it says is "heirs in the celestial kingdom" not "heirs with Christ." Because they haven't does his works yet, so they can't be his true joing-heir...yet.