Multiple mortalities?

[nightlight]

How does the Holy Ghost make us understand things we have not experienced? ???????............

114 But agreat and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not alawful for man to utter;

116 Neither is man acapable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him;

117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves;

118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to bear his bpresence in the world of glory.

119 And to God and the Lamb be aglory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[nightlight]

Yes.

I believe I'll achieve this the same way you will...by becoming one with Jesus.

Once I do this I come to an understanding of ALL THINGS.

Do you believe you'll leave your Celestial Body to become the new Eve???? Somehow that will make you a God?

No sister...you become a God by killing your natural woman. This is how Eve became God. Not by having the first children.

You will not fall or die again...I guarantee this, sister.

Thanks for answering, friend.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. As I see it, a child doesn't get to bypass growing up stages just because his older brother or sister did. They can, however, learn from older siblings and accept their help in the process. We eventually become like our parents by going through the same experiences they did. Once we've done so and have actually earned our equal status as adults, then we can be one.

How do explain Alvin Smith?

I understand he wasn't a child...the the principle applies

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Dude, I still believe in a spirit world where work can be done. All it says is that if someone dies, but their character was such that they would have accepted the gospel, don't worry about it because they'll have the chance there.

What it doesn't clear up is why in the world the Lord would send 99.9999 percent of his children into a test that they were so ill prepared to pass. Why don't more people hang out with heavenly mom and dad for a few more years before they fly the coop? Maybe then they could be born as a slave in Egypt, but still into Israel, or something like that rather than into 3,000 BC China.

Based on the circumstances of Alvin's death, I think it's safe to assume that he was the kind of spirit that would have accepted the gospel in this life and did, in fact, accept it in the spirit world, which is still part of this round.

But if 99.999999 percent of the world's work and probation takes place in the spirit world, why bother with physical mortality?

Another point is that all it says is "heirs in the celestial kingdom" not "heirs with Christ." Because they haven't does his works yet, so they can't be his true joing-heir...yet.

You would have to understand 99.99 % of the worlds premortal life to even give an educated guess as to why they get what's card God gives them while in mortality.
Your using human logic to hash out the spiritual.

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

"Little children shall be saved. They are alive in Christ and shall have eternal life. For them the family unit will continue, and the fulness of exaltation is theirs. No blessing shall be withheld. They shall rise in immortal glory, grow to full maturity, and live forever in the highest heaven of the celestial kingdom"

[Alexander]

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

How do you know the atonement is possible now?
How do you get to know what it's like being perfect...but having sinned?
How do you deserve, yet fall short?

When we understand Love....we understand The Father, the Son...the HG...the Atonment. We understand ALL THINGS.

Christ makes you equal with Him. Hence all these bent knees


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Peter
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

[Davka]

Thanks for answering, friend.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. As I see it, a child doesn't get to bypass growing up stages just because his older brother or sister did. They can, however, learn from older siblings and accept their help in the process. We eventually become like our parents by going through the same experiences they did. Once we've done so and have actually earned our equal status as adults, then we can be one.

How do explain Alvin Smith?

I understand he wasn't a child...the the principle applies

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Dude, I still believe in a spirit world where work can be done. All it says is that if someone dies, but their character was such that they would have accepted the gospel, don't worry about it because they'll have the chance there.

What it doesn't clear up is why in the world the Lord would send 99.9999 percent of his children into a test that they were so ill prepared to pass. Why don't more people hang out with heavenly mom and dad for a few more years before they fly the coop? Maybe then they could be born as a slave in Egypt, but still into Israel, or something like that rather than into 3,000 BC China.

Based on the circumstances of Alvin's death, I think it's safe to assume that he was the kind of spirit that would have accepted the gospel in this life and did, in fact, accept it in the spirit world, which is still part of this round.

But if 99.999999 percent of the world's work and probation takes place in the spirit world, why bother with physical mortality?

Another point is that all it says is "heirs in the celestial kingdom" not "heirs with Christ." Because they haven't does his works yet, so they can't be his true joing-heir...yet.

You would have to understand 99.99 % of the worlds premortal life to even give an educated guess as to why they get what's card God gives them while in mortality.
Your using human logic to hash out the spiritual.

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

"Little children shall be saved. They are alive in Christ and shall have eternal life. For them the family unit will continue, and the fulness of exaltation is theirs. No blessing shall be withheld. They shall rise in immortal glory, grow to full maturity, and live forever in the highest heaven of the celestial kingdom"

I absolutely believe the scriptures.

Bruce R. McConkie on the other hand ... I take with a grain of salt.

[BruceRGilbert]

I am of the opinion that many glazed by what was indicated in scripture - perhaps because it was too long ??? So, I think that it is relevant to make it more abbreviated. A careful review of the following scriptures will reveal to you who is subject to "additional" mortal probations in a TELESTIAL state and why.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
.
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
.
81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.
82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.
85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
.
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.
.
103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.
105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.
106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;
.
111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;
112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

Alma 40:
23 The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame.
24 And now, my son, this is the restoration of which has been spoken by the mouths of the prophets
.
26 But behold, an awful death cometh upon the wicked; for they die as to things pertaining to things of righteousness; for they are unclean, and no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God; but they are cast out, and consigned to partake of the fruits of their labors or their works, which have been evil; and they drink the dregs of a bitter cup. (AFTER the Restoration/Resurrection/Rebirth of their bodies)

Alma 41:
4 And if their works are evil they shall be restored unto them for evil. Therefore, all things shall be restored to their proper order, every thing to its natural frame—mortality raised to immortality, corruption to incorruption—raised to endless happiness to inherit the kingdom of God, or to endless misery to inherit the kingdom of the devil, the one on one hand, the other on the other—
5 The one raised to happiness according to his desires of happiness, or good according to his desires of good; and the other to evil according to his desires of evil; for as he has desired to do evil all the day long even so shall he have his reward of evil when the night cometh.(The imposition of the "veil.")

Doctrine and Covenants 29:
43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;
44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;
45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Further, it was not necessary for Christ to shed His blood on every "Telestial" sphere. This particular one is quite noteworthy:



The Atonement of Christ is infinite and eternal.

[Alexander]

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

How do you know the atonement is possible now?
How do you get to know what it's like being perfect...but having sinned?
How do you deserve, yet fall short?

When we understand Love....we understand The Father, the Son...the HG...the Atonment. We understand ALL THINGS.

Christ makes you equal with Him. Hence all these bent knees


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

D&C 19
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

[nightlight]

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

How do you know the atonement is possible now?
How do you get to know what it's like being perfect...but having sinned?
How do you deserve, yet fall short?

When we understand Love....we understand The Father, the Son...the HG...the Atonment. We understand ALL THINGS.

Christ makes you equal with Him. Hence all these bent knees


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

D&C 19
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

But your claiming you'll have to suffer like Him....
to become like Him

[nightlight]

How do explain Alvin Smith?

I understand he wasn't a child...the the principle applies

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Dude, I still believe in a spirit world where work can be done. All it says is that if someone dies, but their character was such that they would have accepted the gospel, don't worry about it because they'll have the chance there.

What it doesn't clear up is why in the world the Lord would send 99.9999 percent of his children into a test that they were so ill prepared to pass. Why don't more people hang out with heavenly mom and dad for a few more years before they fly the coop? Maybe then they could be born as a slave in Egypt, but still into Israel, or something like that rather than into 3,000 BC China.

Based on the circumstances of Alvin's death, I think it's safe to assume that he was the kind of spirit that would have accepted the gospel in this life and did, in fact, accept it in the spirit world, which is still part of this round.

But if 99.999999 percent of the world's work and probation takes place in the spirit world, why bother with physical mortality?

Another point is that all it says is "heirs in the celestial kingdom" not "heirs with Christ." Because they haven't does his works yet, so they can't be his true joing-heir...yet.

You would have to understand 99.99 % of the worlds premortal life to even give an educated guess as to why they get what's card God gives them while in mortality.
Your using human logic to hash out the spiritual.

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

"Little children shall be saved. They are alive in Christ and shall have eternal life. For them the family unit will continue, and the fulness of exaltation is theirs. No blessing shall be withheld. They shall rise in immortal glory, grow to full maturity, and live forever in the highest heaven of the celestial kingdom"

I absolutely believe the scriptures.

Bruce R. McConkie on the other hand ... I take with a grain of salt.

2nd witness


“You will have the joy, the pleasure, and satisfaction of nurturing this child, after its resurrection, until it reaches the full stature of its spirit.”- JosephSmith

[nightlight]

Anyone feel free to answer this question.....

How does the Holy Ghost make us understand things we have not experienced? ???????............

114 But agreat and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not alawful for man to utter;

116 Neither is man acapable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him;

117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves;

118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to bear his bpresence in the world of glory.

119 And to God and the Lamb be aglory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[BruceRGilbert]

Anyone feel free to answer this question.....

How does the Holy Ghost make us understand things we have not experienced? ???????............(Because This Spirit is not the same as the Other.)

114 But agreat and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not alawful for man to utter;

116 Neither is man acapable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; (This SPIRIT is that of Another.)

117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves;

118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to bear his bpresence in the world of glory.

119 And to God and the Lamb be aglory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[Davka]

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Dude, I still believe in a spirit world where work can be done. All it says is that if someone dies, but their character was such that they would have accepted the gospel, don't worry about it because they'll have the chance there.

What it doesn't clear up is why in the world the Lord would send 99.9999 percent of his children into a test that they were so ill prepared to pass. Why don't more people hang out with heavenly mom and dad for a few more years before they fly the coop? Maybe then they could be born as a slave in Egypt, but still into Israel, or something like that rather than into 3,000 BC China.

Based on the circumstances of Alvin's death, I think it's safe to assume that he was the kind of spirit that would have accepted the gospel in this life and did, in fact, accept it in the spirit world, which is still part of this round.

But if 99.999999 percent of the world's work and probation takes place in the spirit world, why bother with physical mortality?

Another point is that all it says is "heirs in the celestial kingdom" not "heirs with Christ." Because they haven't does his works yet, so they can't be his true joing-heir...yet.

You would have to understand 99.99 % of the worlds premortal life to even give an educated guess as to why they get what's card God gives them while in mortality.
Your using human logic to hash out the spiritual.

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

"Little children shall be saved. They are alive in Christ and shall have eternal life. For them the family unit will continue, and the fulness of exaltation is theirs. No blessing shall be withheld. They shall rise in immortal glory, grow to full maturity, and live forever in the highest heaven of the celestial kingdom"

I absolutely believe the scriptures.

Bruce R. McConkie on the other hand ... I take with a grain of salt.

2nd witness


“You will have the joy, the pleasure, and satisfaction of nurturing this child, after its resurrection, until it reaches the full stature of its spirit.”- JosephSmith

Here's the thing, I can make that quote fit with an MMP reality, too. But it seems we are both pretty set in what we believe with regards to one life vs. many, and I am fine with that.

Like I've said before, at some point we will know for sure. If I'm wrong, then great, what a relief. I am really good at admitting when I am wrong, and will be the first to laugh at how silly my ideas were.

I hope you and others who say there is no way are just as open if the truth ends up being different than you believe right now.

What I do know is that we have heavenly parents who love us and a Savior who was willing to descend below his station to save a sinner such as myself. Without his grace, I would be nothing.

[Alexander]

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

How do you know the atonement is possible now?
How do you get to know what it's like being perfect...but having sinned?
How do you deserve, yet fall short?

When we understand Love....we understand The Father, the Son...the HG...the Atonment. We understand ALL THINGS.

Christ makes you equal with Him. Hence all these bent knees


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

D&C 19
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

But your claiming you'll have to suffer like Him....
to become like Him

I’m confused about what is wrong with saying to become like Jesus, we must suffer in a similar manner (ie atonement).

I might understand your point, maybe not. It seems you are saying since Alvin was seen in the celestial kingdom, that we don’t have to be Christs to become exalted? Did I get that right?

I didn’t mean to post the D&C scripture. We were talking about those who inherit everlasting burnings, not those Who don’t repent, so my mistake, I misunderstood. the 1 Peter scripture is the one I wanted.

[Kingdom of ZION]

It really is sad to see Saints speak so commonly about very sacred things, with no forethought about getting one's own personal revelation upon the subject. Opinions are freely available from any mortal, about how they all think it works in heaven, the eternities, creations and the different kingdoms. Maybe the Saints should have a pole, by poling just LDS and broken down by demographics to find out what is most commonly believed, and then they could start a lemming club and agree what the true doctrines of the kingdom are.

In all seriousness, just reading other threads here upon the topic would be a place to start, you might find one or two others who actually have spent the time and received something upon the subject through the veil. Just a thought...

(This post was written to many of the posts on the first few pages, as I read and watched this thread grow.) The one or two who have showed up trying to point out other possibilities are trying to help.

[MMbelieve]

Read the Book of Abraham. When God picked a spirit to be Christ....he didn't say "first I'll choose you....then I'll choose you.....then I'll choose that guy over there....etc" Jesus is Christ to all who come from the Father.

Your spirit children will need a Christ...it will be one of your Sons

And will that Christ be able to say, as Jesus did, I only do what I saw my father do?

We are to overcome the world...and to become one with the the Father.

One most do this to inherit the Kingdom.
Our Sons will see this in us and do it.

If you found out our Father wasn't the Christ for His brothers....would you think less of Him?

If I found out The Father never fulfilled the role of Christ himself, I would have doubts in the power of the atonement and the gospel. I would have doubts that I could become like Christ, because I could never obtain what he has obtained, or experience what he has experienced. How would Jesus know the atonement was possible if the Father never showed the way before him? How could I believe I can become like Him if I can’t do what He has done?

The Father has performed the role of Christ through his son if he never was a Christ himself.
This stuff your saying is indicating that we all need to be the same. If that’s the case then men would have to go through the same experiences as the men in the scriptures...Noah, Isaac, Jacob, Abraham, Moses etc. Then Moses really wouldn’t be Moses anymore, all men would be Moses. Same for Christ, all men would be Christ so Christ is not really Christ anymore.

I believe the worlds philosophies blowing through the air these days can be adopted into supposed righteous paths yet still be a philosophy of the world. I think this is one of those things. The world is moving towards sameness and away from individuality and even designated roles.

Foreordained before the world was sounds to me that we are not all here to do the same things or the same roles. Just like a family unit. It can become one with everyone doing different roles. Same as a Heavenly family.

And what of women? Women can never be a Christ yet can become a God.
Seems more and more this gospel and plan is for men with women on the sidelines.

[MMbelieve]

You would have to understand 99.99 % of the worlds premortal life to even give an educated guess as to why they get what's card God gives them while in mortality.
Your using human logic to hash out the spiritual.

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

"Little children shall be saved. They are alive in Christ and shall have eternal life. For them the family unit will continue, and the fulness of exaltation is theirs. No blessing shall be withheld. They shall rise in immortal glory, grow to full maturity, and live forever in the highest heaven of the celestial kingdom"

I absolutely believe the scriptures.

Bruce R. McConkie on the other hand ... I take with a grain of salt.

2nd witness


“You will have the joy, the pleasure, and satisfaction of nurturing this child, after its resurrection, until it reaches the full stature of its spirit.”- JosephSmith

Here's the thing, I can make that quote fit with an MMP reality, too. But it seems we are both pretty set in what we believe with regards to one life vs. many, and I am fine with that.

Like I've said before, at some point we will know for sure. If I'm wrong, then great, what a relief. I am really good at admitting when I am wrong, and will be the first to laugh at how silly my ideas were.

I hope you and others who say there is no way are just as open if the truth ends up being different than you believe right now.

What I do know is that we have heavenly parents who love us and a Savior who was willing to descend below his station to save a sinner such as myself. Without his grace, I would be nothing.

When the brother of Jared saw Christ, Christ was yet a spirit without flesh and bones. I don’t see how he could have descended from too elevated a stature if he had never experienced mortality. I get that he descended below us all but thats due to the nature of the atonement itself in taking upon himself everyone’s requirement for justice within Gods law. And if we don’t accept his act and requests then we too will suffer as he did because justice demands it. Christ had much to learn once he came to earth just like we have to much to learn. He was perfect but I don’t believe for a second that he never made any mistakes. What I’m saying is that Christ still had to learn to be human just like we have to. His 40 days was him doing a crash course in self mastery to overcome the weakness of the flesh because he had yet to experience a body until he was born.

We all have beliefs that are wrong and will need to be corrected and set straight once we receive more information and understanding on the matter. I believe and person who loves God, truth and righteousness (a good person) will have zero problem accepting truth when it’s revealed. Right now, heaven seems pretty shut and we really have no idea what it’s like. Not much has been revealed on the matter.

I believe in continuing progression through eternity after we have qualified ourselves and are desirous to learn and become more and more like our father and mother. After our body and spirit are reunited this process will be set in full swing. I only differ on the belief that we will be reunited with our bodies then caste the body off to be born again into mortality. The perfected body we receive will be a perfect body. And I believe that those who are righteous will be considered perfect beings despite not yet being Gods. We are all part of a cycle of creation and have a God and a Christ and a HG, if we caste off our body to be born again in mortality then it necessitates a new Christ with a new gift of mercy and resurrection. But we already have a Christ don’t we? How can he be the Godhead member with his role of overseeing the Middle Kingdom if he’s really just a temp Savior?

There too many questions and conflicts for me to embrace this belief. I have considered it and it does not ring true in my mind or heart.

[nightlight]

And it came to pass after they had fasted and prayed for the space of atwo days and two nights, the limbs of Alma received their strength, and he stood up and began to speak unto them, bidding them to be of good comfort:

24 For, said he, I have repented of my sins, and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold I am born of the Spirit.

25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be aborn again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;

26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

[Rick Grimes]

The whole argument of Christ having a body and shedding it off to come to Earth falls apart when you read where the brother of Jared saw him as a spirit being. If Christ had lived and died before, He would have still had His body until He "let it go" (is that even a thing?) To be born again as a baby to Mary. The logic is just not there at all. We really are twisting the scriptures and taking phrases from past leaders out of context to argue for reincarnation.
No, we will never be Jesus on another planet. Our first born son, if we are exalted will have to be "Jesus" for our own spirit children, but we ourselves will have already been exalted and would not "drop off our body" to be born again in a new existence to be saviors. Wow!! This sounds like something Scientology would have come up with.

[LDS Watchman]

The whole argument of Christ having a body and shedding it off to come to Earth falls apart when you read where the brother of Jared saw him as a spirit being. If Christ had lived and died before, He would have still had His body until He "let it go" (is that even a thing?) To be born again as a baby to Mary. The logic is just not there at all. We really are twisting the scriptures and taking phrases from past leaders out of context to argue for reincarnation.
No, we will never be Jesus on another planet. Our first born son, if we are exalted will have to be "Jesus" for our own spirit children, but we ourselves will have already been exalted and would not "drop off our body" to be born again in a new existence to be saviors. Wow!! This sounds like something Scientology would have come up with.

I'm not really a believer in MMP, in the sense of being tested again.

However, I do wonder what eternal progression will look like.

Brigham Young taught that Adam and Eve were previously exalted beings from another planet who created the spirit bodies for all of us. They then came to this earth with their exalted bodies and fell in order to create our physical bodies. At the end of their lives on this earth they returned to the world of spirits.

This sounds fascinating and is something I would love to do. Doesn't mean it's true of course, but my guess would be that there is at least some truth to these teachings.

[Rick Grimes]

The whole argument of Christ having a body and shedding it off to come to Earth falls apart when you read where the brother of Jared saw him as a spirit being. If Christ had lived and died before, He would have still had His body until He "let it go" (is that even a thing?) To be born again as a baby to Mary. The logic is just not there at all. We really are twisting the scriptures and taking phrases from past leaders out of context to argue for reincarnation.
No, we will never be Jesus on another planet. Our first born son, if we are exalted will have to be "Jesus" for our own spirit children, but we ourselves will have already been exalted and would not "drop off our body" to be born again in a new existence to be saviors. Wow!! This sounds like something Scientology would have come up with.

I'm not really a believer in MMP, in the sense of being tested again.

However, I do wonder what eternal progression will look like.

Brigham Young taught that Adam and Eve were previously exalted beings from another planet who created the spirit bodies for all of us. They then came to this earth with their exalted bodies and fell in order to create our physical bodies. At the end of their lives on this earth they returned to the world of spirits.

This sounds fascinating and is something I would love to do. Doesn't mean it's true of course, but my guess would be that there is at least some truth to these teachings.

It is indeed curious, but I wonder if by "exalted" Brigham didnt simply mean that Godhood had already been attained by Michael? Christ was already a God without a physical body as well. I've already given my opinion and shared that early Jewish teachings taught that Adam was literally sired by the Father, Elohim, and his body was immortal and perfect as a result of this parentage. This would make what Brigham taught to be absolutely true, while still upholding the "one mortal life" standard.

[LDS Watchman]

The whole argument of Christ having a body and shedding it off to come to Earth falls apart when you read where the brother of Jared saw him as a spirit being. If Christ had lived and died before, He would have still had His body until He "let it go" (is that even a thing?) To be born again as a baby to Mary. The logic is just not there at all. We really are twisting the scriptures and taking phrases from past leaders out of context to argue for reincarnation.
No, we will never be Jesus on another planet. Our first born son, if we are exalted will have to be "Jesus" for our own spirit children, but we ourselves will have already been exalted and would not "drop off our body" to be born again in a new existence to be saviors. Wow!! This sounds like something Scientology would have come up with.

I'm not really a believer in MMP, in the sense of being tested again.

However, I do wonder what eternal progression will look like.

Brigham Young taught that Adam and Eve were previously exalted beings from another planet who created the spirit bodies for all of us. They then came to this earth with their exalted bodies and fell in order to create our physical bodies. At the end of their lives on this earth they returned to the world of spirits.

This sounds fascinating and is something I would love to do. Doesn't mean it's true of course, but my guess would be that there is at least some truth to these teachings.

It is indeed curious, but I wonder if by "exalted" Brigham didnt simply mean that Godhood had already been attained by Michael? Christ was already a God without a physical body as well. I've already given my opinion and shared that early Jewish teachings taught that Adam was literally sired by the Father, Elohim, and his body was immortal and perfect as a result of this parentage. This would make what Brigham taught to be absolutely true, while still upholding the "one mortal life" standard.

A pertinent question is whether or not Godhood can be obtained without passing through mortality.

If the answer is no, then both Christ and Adam had to have lived on a previous earth and been exalted before they became Gods and condescended here to earth.

[Zathura]

I’ve been looking into what the telestial kingdom is since this world is telestial, if those who inherit the telestial kingdom will enter another mortality (you may be aware from my last post here https://tinyurl.com/ttjuk3c).
Here are some interesting videos about people remembering their past lives.

https://youtu.be/nhGX1YCsvAM

https://youtu.be/La8vG4mA0is

Tell me what you think

Edit: I didn’t know there were other threads on this subject. I searched up “multiple mortalities” and nothing came up. It wasn’t til after that I became aware of the term MMP and the many other threads on this subject

I've got no horse in this race, I don't personally feel a need to determine the truth of this doctrine, but Alaris certainly has me intrigued. Here is a list of Pro/Anti/Neutral statements on the idea of progression between Kingdoms(Which is a way you could describe MMP)


In 1952, the secretary to the First Presidency was directed to say the following, it was cited again in 1965:

No Official Church Doctrine:

Secretary to the First Presidency (Joseph Anderson)

“The brethren direct me to say that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point. Some of the brethren have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others of the brethren have taken the opposite view. But as stated, the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on this point.” (In a 1952 letter; and again in 1965 (cited in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. XV, No. 1, Spring 1982, p.181-183)

Statements That There Is, or Could Be, Progression Between Kingdoms

Franklin D. Richards (Later called to the Twelve in 1849)

Hiram [Smith] said Aug 1st [18]43 Those of the Terrestrial Glory either advance to the Celestial or recede to the Telestial [or] else the moon could not be a type [viz. a symbol of that kingdom]. [for] it [the moon] "waxes & wanes." (From a sermon transcribed by Franklin D. Richards in Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 24, 1 August 1843)

Wilford Woodruff (Quorum of the Twelve)

In conversing upon various principles President [Brigham] Young said none would inherit this Earth when it became celestial and translated into the presence of God but those who would be crowned as Gods and able to endure the fullness of the presence of God, except they would be permitted to take with them some servants for whom they would be held responsible. All others would have to inherit another kingdom, even that kingdom agreeing with the law which they had kept. He said they would eventually have the privilege of proving themselves worthy and advancing to a celestial kingdom, but it would be a slow progress. (Journal of Wilford Woodruff, 5 Aug 1855)

Franklin D. Richards (Quorum of the Twelve)

The Savior tells us that the terrestrial glory, or kingdom, is likened unto the glory of the moon, which is not of the brightness of the sun, neither of the smallness nor dimness of the stars. But those others who have no part in marrying or giving of marriage in the last resurrection, they become as stars, and even differ from each other in glory; but those in the terrestrial kingdom are those who will come forth at the time when Enoch comes back, when the Savior comes again to dwell upon the earth; when Father Abraham will be there with the Urim and Thummim to look after every son and daughter of his race; to make known all things that are needed to be known, and with them enter into their promised inheritance. Thus the people of God will go forward. They will go forward, like unto the new moon, increasing in knowledge and brightness and glory, until they come to a fullness of celestial glory. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 25:236, 17 May 1884)

Joseph F. Smith (President)

Once a person enters these glories there will be eternal progress in the line of each of these particular glories, but the privilege of passing from one to another (though this may be possible for especially gifted and faithful characters) is not provided for. (Improvement Era 14:87, November 1910)

J. Reuben Clark, Jr. (First Presidency)

I am not a strict constructionalist, believing that we seal our eternal progress by what we do here. It is my belief that God will save all of His children that he can: and while, if we live unrighteously here, we shall not go to the other side in the same status, so to speak, as those who lived righteously; nevertheless, the unrighteous will have their chance, and in the eons of the eternities that are to follow, they, too, may climb to the destinies to which they who are righteous and serve God, have climbed to those eternities that are to come. (Church News, p. 3 , 23 April 1960)

James E. Talmage (Quorum of the Twelve)

It is reasonable to believe, in the absence of direct revelation by which alone absolute knowledge of the matter could be acquired, that, in accordance with God’s plan of eternal progression, advancement from grade to grade within any kingdom, and from kingdom to kingdom, will be provided for. But if the recipients of a lower glory be enabled to advance, surely the intelligences of higher rank will not be stopped in their progress; and thus we may conclude, that degrees and grades will ever characterize the kingdoms of our God. Eternity is progressive; perfection is relative; the essential feature of God’s living purpose is its associated power of eternal increase. (Articles of Faith, (1899), p.420-421)

**NOTE this was the original edition, the subsequent versions adjusted the wording **

B.H. Roberts (Presidency of the Seventy)

The question of advancement within the great divisions of glory celestial, terrestrial, and telestial; as also the question of advancement from one sphere of glory to another remains to be considered. In the revelation from which we have summarized what has been written here, in respect to the different degrees of glory, it is said that those of the terrestrial glory will be ministered unto by those of the celestial; and those of the telestial will be ministered unto by those of the terrestrial–that is, those of the higher glory minister to those of a lesser glory. I can conceive of no reason for all this administration of the higher to the lower, unless it be for the purpose of advancing our Father’s children along the lines of eternal progression. Whether or not in the great future, full of so many possibilities now hidden from us, they of the lesser glories after education and advancement within those spheres may at last emerge from them and make their way to the higher degrees of glory until at last they attain to the highest, is not revealed in the revelations of God, and any statement made on the subject must partake more or less of the nature of conjecture. But if it be granted that such a thing is possible, they who at the first entered into the celestial glory–having before them the privilege also of eternal progress–have been moving onward, so that the relative distance between them and those who have fought their way up from the lesser glories may be as great when the latter have come into the degrees of celestial glory in which the righteous at first stood, as it was at the commencement. Thus: Those whose faith and works are such only as to enable them to inherit a telestial glory, may arrive at last where those whose works in this life were such as to enable them to entrance into the celestial kingdom–they may arrive where these were, but never where they are. (New Witnesses for God, 1:391-392)

Statements Declaring That There is No Progression Between Kingdoms

George Albert Smith (President)

There are some people who have supposed that if we are quickened telestial bodies that eventually, throughout the ages of eternity, we will continue to progress until we will find our place in the celestial kingdom, but the scriptures and revelations of God have said that those who are quickened telestial bodies cannot come where God and Christ dwell, worlds without end. (Conference Report, October 1945, p.172)

Spencer W. Kimball (Quorum of the Twelve)

After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right. (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.50; The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.243-244)

Joseph Fielding Smith (Quorum of the Twelve)

It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory?

The answer to this question is, No!

The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end."

Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is "worlds without end," yet in time they will get where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights.

This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.

Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now -- then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the "seeds forever." The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever!

The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end. (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:31-32)

Bruce R. McConkie (Quorum of the Twelve)

There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal worlds or that lower kingdoms eventually progress to where higher kingdoms once were.

This belief lulls men into a state of carnal security. It causes them to say, "God is so merciful; surely he will save us all eventually; if we do not gain the celestial kingdom now, eventually we will; so why worry?"

It lets people live a life of sin here and now with the hope that they will be saved eventually.

The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies - some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared.

Of those in the telestial world it is written:

"And they shall be servants of the Most High, but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112).

Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it the revelation says:.

Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all etemity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. [D&C 132:16-17]

They neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within a sphere. ("The Seven Deadly Heresies," Classic Speeches, Provo, UT: Brigham Young University, 1994, pp. 175-176)

[Mindfields]

So in other words who the hell knows!

[LDSAnon]

John Pratt's web site has several articles on this topic (www.johnpratt.com). It is one of interest to me. Several years ago, I was in the temple and the Spirit touched my heart at the moment the narrative depicted Adam and Eve entered the telestial world and the narrator stated, "This is the telestial kingdom, or, the world in which we live." At that moment I began to consider the possibility that, when the scriptures teach us that there is not just one type of resurrection, and Paul's teachings that there are different types of bodies associated with each resurrection, it got me to thinking. I'm not declaring doctrine here--far from it. But here are the questions upon which I am pondering and asking the Lord for insights.

How does a resurrection take place?
Is birth a resurrection into the telestial world?
When we speak of passing through the "veil" is that a metaphor for "woman?"
Is this how the "eternal round" works?

Here are some of my thoughts on those questions. I have no definitive answers, but just some loosely organized impressions.

When we come into this world, we pass through a veil and we forget all that was before. The veil is a metaphor for a woman. Woman IS the veil. When we are resurrected into the next stage, we pass through another veil. That veil requires a priest through which we must pass. "Neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man." That's why it takes an eternal marriage. Children born in the covenant are preparing to pass through a "dispensation" and are privileged to have access to both veils.

We are taught that sealing creates an unbreakable bond. Paul teaches that the unbelieving spouse sanctifies or saves the other. We are told that children born in the covenant have a promise that they will be saved, even if they are not righteous or believers. That seems patently unfair. However, if the sealing binds us across multiple probations, what righteous parent would not choose to be reborn into a telestial world to save and guide their child through the process again? The sealing creates that bond. Wayward children don't get a pass. They have to work out their salvation, but they may receive help by those who have been successful in previous mortalities.

It's obviously not 100 percent, but that movie "What Dreams May Come," speaks to me very strongly. None of this denies the necessity of a Redeemer, grace, ordinances, prophets, authority, etc. It just shows that God's mercy is extended farther that we give him credit for.

One last point, the Lord uses emphatic language to inspire us to move forward and not abandon the path. The scriptures speak of a burning hell, but the Lord tells us that it is emphatic, not literal. It is designed to be "more express. . .that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory" (D&C 19:6-7). In D&C, the Lord explains that he warns us of a burning hell, endless torment, and eternal punishment, but, in reality, it does not last forever. It comes to an end. We get another chance, apparently. (The reason the Apocalypse of Peter was rejected by ancient Christians is that it teaches that hell comes to an end.)

Therefore, if the Lord speaks emphatically about eternal punishment, might he also not speak emphatically when he says this mortal probation is the one time we get to prepare to meet God? He wants us motivated! Nevertheless, justice and mercy work together in the concept of "one eternal round" and it resolves some seeming discrepancies about who gets exalted, the relationships of sealed families, etc.

[Davka]

John Pratt's web site has several articles on this topic (www.johnpratt.com). It is one of interest to me. Several years ago, I was in the temple and the Spirit touched my heart at the moment the narrative depicted Adam and Eve entered the telestial world and the narrator stated, "This is the telestial kingdom, or, the world in which we live." At that moment I began to consider the possibility that, when the scriptures teach us that there is not just one type of resurrection, and Paul's teachings that there are different types of bodies associated with each resurrection, it got me to thinking. I'm not declaring doctrine here--far from it. But here are the questions upon which I am pondering and asking the Lord for insights.

How does a resurrection take place?
Is birth a resurrection into the telestial world?
When we speak of passing through the "veil" is that a metaphor for "woman?"
Is this how the "eternal round" works?

Here are some of my thoughts on those questions. I have no definitive answers, but just some loosely organized impressions.

When we come into this world, we pass through a veil and we forget all that was before. The veil is a metaphor for a woman. Woman IS the veil. When we are resurrected into the next stage, we pass through another veil. That veil requires a priest through which we must pass. "Neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man." That's why it takes an eternal marriage. Children born in the covenant are preparing to pass through a "dispensation" and are privileged to have access to both veils.

We are taught that sealing creates an unbreakable bond. Paul teaches that the unbelieving spouse sanctifies or saves the other. We are told that children born in the covenant have a promise that they will be saved, even if they are not righteous or believers. That seems patently unfair. However, if the sealing binds us across multiple probations, what righteous parent would not choose to be reborn into a telestial world to save and guide their child through the process again? The sealing creates that bond. Wayward children don't get a pass. They have to work out their salvation, but they may receive help by those who have been successful in previous mortalities.

It's obviously not 100 percent, but that movie "What Dreams May Come," speaks to me very strongly. None of this denies the necessity of a Redeemer, grace, ordinances, prophets, authority, etc. It just shows that God's mercy is extended farther that we give him credit for.

One last point, the Lord uses emphatic language to inspire us to move forward and not abandon the path. The scriptures speak of a burning hell, but the Lord tells us that it is emphatic, not literal. It is designed to be "more express. . .that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory" (D&C 19:6-7). In D&C, the Lord explains that he warns us of a burning hell, endless torment, and eternal punishment, but, in reality, it does not last forever. It comes to an end. We get another chance, apparently. (The reason the Apocalypse of Peter was rejected by ancient Christians is that it teaches that hell comes to an end.)

Therefore, if the Lord speaks emphatically about eternal punishment, might he also not speak emphatically when he says this mortal probation is the one time we get to prepare to meet God? He wants us motivated! Nevertheless, justice and mercy work together in the concept of "one eternal round" and it resolves some seeming discrepancies about who gets exalted, the relationships of sealed families, etc.

This is beautifully and thoughtfully expressed, LDSAnon.

[jmack]

Not in the way some think. The roles we play when we next come to an earth will be Adam and Eve and Saviour type roles. We won't have another life where we come not knowing anything about the Gospel.

Same problem here^. Adam and Eve died on this Earth. If they had been resurrected beings who had lived their full mortality in another world and then were resurrected, they could not have died again. The scriptures speak plainly to this fact. Once resurrection happens, death has no power over us any longer.

Adam was Michael and brought his wife down with him, according to Brigham Young. They fell by sinning, thus became mortal again. BY said we would have to be Adams and Eves.

Plus Joseph Smith explained that we would also have to be Holy Ghosts and Saviours, 'going from grace to grace, exaltation to exaltation until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and can sit in everlasting burnings'. (see King Follett Discourse)

This is not lds doctrine, it is speculation and likely misunderstood when someone wrote it down. The king Follett talk is not part of lds canon. People who believe in mmp should not be presenting it here as sound doctrine and teaching.