Is the Church restored or is it being restored?

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Maybe I missed this but my understanding was that the Gospel along with Christ's Church and it's preisthood authority was restored by Joseph Smith via angelic ministry in 1830. I have heard that there were many truths the Lord would yet reveal going forward but not that the Church would undergo a perpetual restoration. Russell Nelson, since he has become president, has been teaching that the restoration of the Church is still on going.

What do we make of this? I'm a bit confused by it myself.

[cab]

There are save 2 churches only... I believe the only "true and living church" (which was the church Joseph was endeavouring to restore, also known as the Church of the Lamb by Nephi) is not here yet...
I also believe the dispensation of the fullness of times has not yet been ushered in (also something Joseph was attempting to accomplish)....
I suspect that any fullness we once had was sinned against long ago, fulfilling Jesus' prophecy in 3 Nephi 16:10.

[Robin Hood]

Both.

[marc]

The (fullness of the) gospel will not be complete until we are all (2nd Comforter) restored to God's presence (Zion redeemed).

[simpleton]

Maybe I missed this but my understanding was that the Gospel along with Christ's Church and it's preisthood authority was restored by Joseph Smith via angelic ministry in 1830. I have heard that there were many truths the Lord would yet reveal going forward but not that the Church would undergo a perpetual restoration. Russell Nelson, since he has become president, has been teaching that the restoration of the Church is still on going.

What do we make of this? I'm a bit confused by it myself.

Is that a correct quote? That "the restoration of the church is still ongoing"? Because as I see it, the church was restored, but more truths are forth coming. But, that is, if we accept and live up to what we have received. But I do not think we have even lived up to what was revealed to Joseph, and that we are digressing. We have been changing and watering down the Gospel ever since to fit our corrupt desires. So, I do not expect any more truths until we live up to what was revealed in the first place.

[EmmaLee]

Maybe I missed this but my understanding was that the Gospel along with Christ's Church and it's preisthood authority was restored by Joseph Smith via angelic ministry in 1830. I have heard that there were many truths the Lord would yet reveal going forward but not that the Church would undergo a perpetual restoration. Russell Nelson, since he has become president, has been teaching that the restoration of the Church is still on going.

What do we make of this? I'm a bit confused by it myself.

Is that a correct quote? That "the restoration of the church is still ongoing"? Because as I see it, the church was restored, but more truths are forth coming. But, that is, if we accept and live up to what we have received. But I do not think we have even lived up to what was revealed to Joseph, and that we are digressing. We have been changing and watering down the Gospel ever since to fit our corrupt desires. So, I do not expect any more truths until we live up to what was revealed in the first place.

I think layer8prob might be referring to comments from Nelson, et al, such as these -

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... estoration

"....an unfolding Restoration that continues today."

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... l-ministry

“We're witnesses to a process of restoration,” said the prophet. “If you think the Church has been fully restored, you're just seeing the beginning. There is much more to come. … Wait till next year. And then the next year."

https://news.byu.edu/faith/byu-devotion ... estoration

Elder Stevenson connected the relatively rapid evolution of Education Week to the even more expedited Restoration of the gospel. He shared his gratitude for President Russell M. Nelson, who testifies of the further Restoration of the Church.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/6/20897 ... centennial

He and other church leaders have taught clearly in recent years that the Restoration begun in 1820 is ongoing and still unfolding. They reiterated this weekend that the changes and updates reverberating through the faith today are revelatory.

[Vision]

The Priesthood was restored and then the Church was organized.

[skylight]

JOSEPH SMITH WAS ONLY ABLE TO RESTORE A SMALL PERCENTAGE

There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger [a piece of corn bread] for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle [a wooden mallet]. Even the Saints are slow to understand.

“I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen WJS, JOSEPH SMITH; [see D&C 121:40].”

IF YOU TAKE HIS PERCENTAGE AT HIS WORD, HE RESTORED 1%

“I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have of the glories of the kingdoms manifested to me in the vision [of the three degrees of glory], were I permitted, and were the people prepared to receive them.”14, JOSEPH SMITH WJS

WE HAVE LOST MANY THINGS THAT WERE RESTORED BY JOSEPH

There is one compilation of 200 things that were restored by Joseph that are no longer practiced, including:
Law of adoption (sealing family lines to dispensation head, a.k.a Father a.k.a Joseph Smith)
Kneeling for sacrament (shouldn’t we always kneel before an altar?)
Greetings with uplifted holy hands
Washings of feet to lay members
Full washing and anointings, much more thorough, horns of oils poured, full bathtubs for washings, etc
Full endowment (formerly 8 hours)
Lectures on faith being taken from scriptures without common consent
Common consent in all things
Revelations ratified by lay members
Traveling 13 who had “no authority in Zion” being made our hierarchy
Church of checks and balances, traveling 12 (what we currently call 12 apostles) vs high council 12 in stake of Zion, vs 1st presidency vs lay members - all were supposed to have common consent, and voices of balance like our civic government (legislative, executive, judicial) where now its all mashed into a power dominating hierarchy
Baptism of fire actively taught
Calling and election actively taught
2nd comforter actively and frequenctly taught
Rebaptized often done and taught
Baptism for sick (read Joseph Smith’s journal, interesting read!)
Council of 50
Quorum of the anointed
School of the prophets (no not an administrative version, taught actually how to commune with the heavens)
Hebrew actively learned
Cosmos discussed and learned (school of the prophets)
New scriptures actively produced
Etc etc

No wonder some say the restoration is in danger of being lost! Look how much most would probably not even understand in this list!

[LukeAir2008]

Maybe I missed this but my understanding was that the Gospel along with Christ's Church and it's preisthood authority was restored by Joseph Smith via angelic ministry in 1830. I have heard that there were many truths the Lord would yet reveal going forward but not that the Church would undergo a perpetual restoration. Russell Nelson, since he has become president, has been teaching that the restoration of the Church is still on going.

What do we make of this? I'm a bit confused by it myself.

No need to be confused. President Nelson got that one wrong. The gospel has been restored fully. If it hadn’t then we would never know what the requirements were for salvation. What if there’s an essential ordinance that we don’t yet know about?

Yes we believe in ongoing revelation. Yes there could be some information the Lord wants us to know or some guidance the Church needs to receive but that doesn’t mean the Church hasn’t been restored.

And if the restoration is ongoing then Im curious as to what any of his successors have added since Joseph’s death?

All I see are amendments, changes, cancellations, taking things away but nothing new being added?

[Phantom]

I disagree with some of what is being said here.

Joseph began the restoration and in the time of his life there were many -- even countless -- changes that took place as the body of the Church progressed. It has been and always will be that way.

If you look at the "last charge meeting" and what transpired there it is clearly stated that Joseph only began the restoration and that it will be a process that continues well into the Millennium.

This is just one of many levels that define faith. Ours is a Living God, one who requires different things at different times for different reasons, sometimes known only to him.

I have faith he knows what he is doing. I have faith that he works through chosen vessels and that it isn't my place to stand in judgment of them but rather to exercise my faith in Him as their head.

The Church is what the Church is -- that is to say it is merely an organization. The Gospel -- and the Priesthood, which HAS been restored -- is where my focus, faith and sustaining efforts must reside.

He is my Master and this is His Church.

[Alaris]

We have enough restoration and need no more restoration. lol

[mahalanobis]

I'm fine with more restoration. But what I don't understand is this: The purpose of a restoration means 'restoring' the church back to how it used to be back when Christ was on the Earth and shortly after He left.

So are we becoming like that original church more and more?

The phrasing is just awkward to me. I think we should say something like: that the Lord personally reestablished His church and involved many of His servants in the process, including Joseph Smith, Peter, James, John, Old Testament prophets, etc. Today we have living prophets, so we see ongoing Revelation. We believe many more things will be revealed. We believe in establishing Zion in preparation for the Lord's return.

The above describes the church and beliefs accurately and there was no appropriate use of the word 'restore'. If I restore something, that means I take an old beat up thing and repair it and polish it. But that goes against the narrative of the church. The Lord didn't find the broken fragments of His original church and whip them into shape. Rather, he started with a clean slate. That is reestablishment, not restoration. Plus there are lots of new doctrines and scriptures that the original church didn't have (which is fine by me, but those are latter-day appendages which are attributed to the fruits of modern prophets, not part of a restoration to the way things used to be).

I just wish we'd use words that made more sense.

[Phantom]

I'm fine with more restoration. But what I don't understand is this: The purpose of a restoration means 'restoring' the church back to how it used to be back when Christ was on the Earth and shortly after He left.

So are we becoming like that original church more and more?

The phrasing is just awkward to me. I think we should say something like: that the Lord personally reestablished His church and involved many of His servants in the process, including Joseph Smith, Peter, James, John, Old Testament prophets, etc. Today we have living prophets, so we see ongoing Revelation. We believe many more things will be revealed. We believe in establishing Zion in preparation for the Lord's return.

The above describes the church and beliefs accurately and there was no appropriate use of the word 'restore'. If I restore something, that means I take an old beat up thing and repair it and polish it. But that goes against the narrative of the church. The Lord didn't find the broken fragments of His original church and whip them into shape. Rather, he started with a clean slate. That is reestablishment, not restoration. Plus there are lots of new doctrines and scriptures that the original church didn't have (which is fine by me, but those are latter-day appendages which are attributed to the fruits of modern prophets, not part of a restoration to the way things used to be).

I just wish we'd use words that made more sense.

Christ was the head of the Church. Who better to "restore" than Him? It had been done before.

[mahalanobis]

I'm fine with more restoration. But what I don't understand is this: The purpose of a restoration means 'restoring' the church back to how it used to be back when Christ was on the Earth and shortly after He left.

So are we becoming like that original church more and more?

The phrasing is just awkward to me. I think we should say something like: that the Lord personally reestablished His church and involved many of His servants in the process, including Joseph Smith, Peter, James, John, Old Testament prophets, etc. Today we have living prophets, so we see ongoing Revelation. We believe many more things will be revealed. We believe in establishing Zion in preparation for the Lord's return.

The above describes the church and beliefs accurately and there was no appropriate use of the word 'restore'. If I restore something, that means I take an old beat up thing and repair it and polish it. But that goes against the narrative of the church. The Lord didn't find the broken fragments of His original church and whip them into shape. Rather, he started with a clean slate. That is reestablishment, not restoration. Plus there are lots of new doctrines and scriptures that the original church didn't have (which is fine by me, but those are latter-day appendages which are attributed to the fruits of modern prophets, not part of a restoration to the way things used to be).

I just wish we'd use words that made more sense.

Christ was the head of the Church. Who better to "restore" than Him? It had been done before.

So what was the state of His church before he restored it?

[Phantom]

I'm fine with more restoration. But what I don't understand is this: The purpose of a restoration means 'restoring' the church back to how it used to be back when Christ was on the Earth and shortly after He left.

So are we becoming like that original church more and more?

The phrasing is just awkward to me. I think we should say something like: that the Lord personally reestablished His church and involved many of His servants in the process, including Joseph Smith, Peter, James, John, Old Testament prophets, etc. Today we have living prophets, so we see ongoing Revelation. We believe many more things will be revealed. We believe in establishing Zion in preparation for the Lord's return.

The above describes the church and beliefs accurately and there was no appropriate use of the word 'restore'. If I restore something, that means I take an old beat up thing and repair it and polish it. But that goes against the narrative of the church. The Lord didn't find the broken fragments of His original church and whip them into shape. Rather, he started with a clean slate. That is reestablishment, not restoration. Plus there are lots of new doctrines and scriptures that the original church didn't have (which is fine by me, but those are latter-day appendages which are attributed to the fruits of modern prophets, not part of a restoration to the way things used to be).

I just wish we'd use words that made more sense.

Christ was the head of the Church. Who better to "restore" than Him? It had been done before.

So what was the state of His church before he restored it?

I think history even outside of the Church documents that well. They don't call them the "dark ages" for nothing.

That being said, I think one of the greater misunderstandings that many have is that "Joseph" restored the Church. I love the Prophet and I credit him with advancement in spiritual thought that is nothing short of miraculous during his day and age. But it was Christ, who appeared to him, who restored the Church. Without the Savior guiding and directing -- delegating, if you will, to the likes of Moroni and Peter, James and John, and Elijah, etc -- nothing would have been "restored".

I believe the Christ continues to "restore" the Church. It didn't happen all at once in 1830. I believe Christ continues that great work as both the body of the Church and the world at large moves in their various directions. I also believe that there are parts and portions we aren't ready for -- things like the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon, yet to be revealed or given to us. Joseph was serious when he said he would be shot dead in the streets of Nauvoo if he revealed all he knew to the Saints. I think he was serious when he told the School of the Prophets and the assembled Twelve that they knew as little as a baby on his mother's knee.

I believe D&C 132 and the whole plural marriage experience was a good example of how much the Church was not ready for higher principles. I think there is much, much more to come and it we had it all it would strain us beyond our abilities to bear because each of us has been "programmed" both within our families, the Church and the world to accept or reject certain things and have not yet proven ourselves worthy of receiving pure revelation and obeying fully the will of God.

I believe Father is all knowing and all loving and holds back where he needs to so that we can progress. Else we would be destroyed in our ignorance, arrogance and lack of accepting life.

I also believe that each of us, born unto this day after the Prophet Joseph completed his work and as each successive president of the Church have contributed their measure, are placed exactly where we need to be -- that we were each called, set apart by Father Himself, to do our part and to sustain that which flows through his holy prophets. No matter what each of us has the potential and capacity to know that each thing that happens can be confirmed by the Holy Ghost, which promise we are given by confirmation and through our faith.

[mahalanobis]

I'm fine with more restoration. But what I don't understand is this: The purpose of a restoration means 'restoring' the church back to how it used to be back when Christ was on the Earth and shortly after He left.

So are we becoming like that original church more and more?

The phrasing is just awkward to me. I think we should say something like: that the Lord personally reestablished His church and involved many of His servants in the process, including Joseph Smith, Peter, James, John, Old Testament prophets, etc. Today we have living prophets, so we see ongoing Revelation. We believe many more things will be revealed. We believe in establishing Zion in preparation for the Lord's return.

The above describes the church and beliefs accurately and there was no appropriate use of the word 'restore'. If I restore something, that means I take an old beat up thing and repair it and polish it. But that goes against the narrative of the church. The Lord didn't find the broken fragments of His original church and whip them into shape. Rather, he started with a clean slate. That is reestablishment, not restoration. Plus there are lots of new doctrines and scriptures that the original church didn't have (which is fine by me, but those are latter-day appendages which are attributed to the fruits of modern prophets, not part of a restoration to the way things used to be).

I just wish we'd use words that made more sense.

Christ was the head of the Church. Who better to "restore" than Him? It had been done before.

So what was the state of His church before he restored it?

I think history even outside of the Church documents that well. They don't call them the "dark ages" for nothing.

That being said, I think one of the greater misunderstandings that many have is that "Joseph" restored the Church. I love the Prophet and I credit him with advancement in spiritual thought that is nothing short of miraculous during his day and age. But it was Christ, who appeared to him, who restored the Church. Without the Savior guiding and directing -- delegating, if you will, to the likes of Moroni and Peter, James and John, and Elijah, etc -- nothing would have been "restored".

I believe the Christ continues to "restore" the Church. It didn't happen all at once in 1830. I believe Christ continues that great work as both the body of the Church and the world at large moves in their various directions. I also believe that there are parts and portions we aren't ready for -- things like the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon, yet to be revealed or given to us. Joseph was serious when he said he would be shot dead in the streets of Nauvoo if he revealed all he knew to the Saints. I think he was serious when he told the School of the Prophets and the assembled Twelve that they knew as little as a baby on his mother's knee.

I believe D&C 132 and the whole plural marriage experience was a good example of how much the Church was not ready for higher principles. I think there is much, much more to come and it we had it all it would strain us beyond our abilities to bear because each of us has been "programmed" both within our families, the Church and the world to accept or reject certain things and have not yet proven ourselves worthy of receiving pure revelation and obeying fully the will of God.

I believe Father is all knowing and all loving and holds back where he needs to so that we can progress. Else we would be destroyed in our ignorance, arrogance and lack of accepting life.

I also believe that each of us, born unto this day after the Prophet Joseph completed his work and as each successive president of the Church have contributed their measure, are placed exactly where we need to be -- that we were each called, set apart by Father Himself, to do our part and to sustain that which flows through his holy prophets. No matter what each of us has the potential and capacity to know that each thing that happens can be confirmed by the Holy Ghost, which promise we are given by confirmation and through our faith.

In my original comment that you replied to, I said Christ personally restored His church. The only difference between us is that I'm claiming that He reestablished it rather than restored it. I think you're disputing elements of my comments that you misinterpreted.

Also, when I asked "the status of the church before it was restored", your answer appears to be that it was nonexistent on the face of the Earth, correct?

[Phantom]

Maybe I'm not understanding you clearly, I apologize if I'm not.

In my studies I've always kind of leaned to the teachings of Acts 3 -- "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

Of particular interest here, to me at least, are the words "refreshing" and "restitution" -- curious in our parlay of "restoration" and "re-establishment"...don't you think?

Consider as well the period known as the "Reformation", a time when the Church supports the idea that the Lord raised up good men in kind of a pre-courser to the restoration. What those Reformers lacked was the priesthood -- or the ability to restore or re-establish or refresh the FULNESS of the Gospel. Therein lies the meat of the restoration in my view.

Parenthetically, if you look back on the history of what became of the Church Christ himself established there is no doubt that it fell completely away and lost the priesthood and its authority that it once had.

[MMbelieve]

Restoration:

Noun
(en noun)
the process of bringing an object back to its original state; the process of restoring something
“The restoration of this painting will take years.”
“The restoration of this medieval church involved undoing all the Victorian modifications.”
“the return of a former monarchy or monarch to power, usually after having been forced to step down”

The word restoration indicates a process.

This is interesting, the second great awakening was also termed a restoration - and our church was restored during this great awakening. So, there was already a movement to restore the church before Joseph Smith.

“The Restoration Movement (also known as the American Restoration Movement or the Stone-Campbell Movement, and pejoratively as Campbellism) is a Christian movement that began on the United States frontier during the Second Great Awakening (1790–1840) of the early 19th century. The pioneers of this movement were seeking to reform the church from within[1] and sought "the unification of all Christians in a single body patterned after the church of the New Testament."[2]:54”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement

I know it’s wikipedia so not the greatest but it’s informative.

The question is what are we restoring to? Answer than and any confusion should subside. And no, the answer is not “back to Joseph Smith”. The restoration started with him as a way to organize Christ’s church, since none of the others at the time were correct. But what is Christ wanting to restore back to? What’s the original look like?

[BruceRGilbert]

The RESTORATION is going to take the form of "Amplification" and will be the building upon that which has already been established or foretold.

If you are lazy and don't want to make any effort but to be spoon fed . . . you will garnish "milk" without protein and end up in the "blue" area; Telestial kingdom.

[BruceRGilbert]

Have you received your "charge?"

[NewEliza]

I’m personally in the “the church WAS restored and is now being slowly disassembled” camp.

But in order for the church to keep making all these changes they have to claim continuing restoration.

[Phantom]

I’m personally in the “the church WAS restored and is now being slowly disassembled” camp.

But in order for the church to keep making all these changes they have to claim continuing restoration.

Continuing revelation is an article of faith. Anyone who can't handles the "changes" needs to reflect on that.

[johnBob]

I’m personally in the “the church WAS restored and is now being slowly disassembled” camp.

But in order for the church to keep making all these changes they have to claim continuing restoration.

Continuing revelation is an article of faith. Anyone who can't handles the "changes" needs to reflect on that.

We really need to rethink our definition of what constitutes "revelation".

[SouEu]

Like President Nelson said, it is continuing to be restored.

I attended a meeting a few months ago with Presiding Bishop Gérald Jean Caussé. He told us some things that President Nelson told the brethren. I took some notes at the meeting, and two statements would be of interest that Bishop Gérald Jean Caussé relayed to us from the prophet.

1. "There will be an acceleration of events between now and the second coming and a corresponding acceleration of change in the church, and acceleration of the restoration."

2. "The events of the restoration between now and the second coming will far exceed everything that has happened since the first vision."

It looks like the restoration continues, and there is much more coming in the future, than what has come in the past.

[johnBob]

Like President Nelson said, it is continuing to be restored.

I attended a meeting a few months ago with Presiding Bishop Gérald Jean Caussé. He told us some things that President Nelson told the brethren. I took some notes at the meeting, and two statements would be of interest that Bishop Gérald Jean Caussé relayed to us from the prophet.

1. "There will be an acceleration of events between now and the second coming and a corresponding acceleration of change in the church, and acceleration of the restoration."

2. "The events of the restoration between now and the second coming will far exceed everything that has happened since the first vision."

It looks like the restoration continues, and there is much more coming in the future, than what has come in the past.

Well those are some pretty bold statements.

"far exceed everything that has happened since the first vision."

That's a really bold statement. Considering all that happened in the early days of the Church AFTER the fist vision. That's a really, really tall order. We know of some specific events as laid out in Scriptures, but I get the feeling he is speaking more than just what is written in Scripture.

So any takers on Priesthood to all members over the age of 11 come April?