Church authority vs authority from God

[righteousrepublic]

What are your thoughts on the difference between church authority and authority from God. I have been reading recently in Mosiah 18, and was thinking about how the priests of Noah were immoral and were not loyal to their duties in the church, and how the words of Abinidi struck the heart of Alma. This allowed the lord to lead out righteous people and create a church. The authority Alma had to baptize and such was given to him directly from God. In verse 12 Alma cries out to the lord to ask for permission to baptize, and it is granted of the spirit.

I am seeing a difference between authority of the church vs authority of God. To be ordained or have priesthood “conferred” doesn't actually confirm priesthood upon a person. I believe that it in most cases it is a formal pronouncement that the person has the rite to perform priesthood functions in the church, and that such preisthood is something they still need to seek. Similar with the Gift of the Holy Ghost being a directive to seek for the real thing. Just because someone was given authority from the heirarchy of the church to be able to do a specific task in the church, does not guarantee that God will honor what they do. True priesthood is associated with the level of relationship we have with God.

Based on these things, I would assume that anyone who has a relationship with Christ (they don't even have to be a part of the COJCOLDS) can receive permission and authority to baptize, perform miracles, and commune with God one on one.

What do you think?

Priesthood is the power and authority of God given to man, including the authority to perform ordinances....

Try to raise someone from the dead without priesthood authority.
Try giving someone a healing blessing without priesthood authority.
Try causing something to be bound on earth and in heaven without priesthood authority.
Try bestowing the Holy Ghost onto a person without priesthood authority.
Try walking on water without priesthood authority.

What links all these things together. in other words, what is the missing factor that causes these things to work?

Does this answer your inquiry?

He who has ears to hear and eyes to see.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthoo ... ay_Saints)

Before becoming a member, I had been in all sorts of different denominations and I've seen people pray over people and these things happen. Some groups more then others, but I've still seen it. Amongst women also. One in particular involved a very spiritual woman who was a charismatic pentecostal. I had problems with my back and the pain would radiate into my arm, causing sharp stabbing pains. She prayed for me, and I was healed THAT day.

Point well taken. Now that I give it more thought, I realize that I made an error. Priesthood power is the ability to bestow the same power onto another; to engage in ordinances and the like, and to bestow the Holy Ghost onto another.
By faith we can do a lot of things that may be and are miraculous to those around us. Faith is the moving cause in all actions, if I recall the Lectures on faith definition correctly, that is.
The scriptures tell us that without faith we cannot please God.

Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Sorry for my error.

Having said this, however, there are people that perform their own will and yet think they are pleasing God

3 Nephi 14:22,23
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[righteousrepublic]

As someone who was born outside of the Church but was a believer in Christ, I didn’t have authority to baptise or do anything else for that matter - and neither did anyone else that I knew.
We believed in Christ and that was it. We had the first principle - nothing else.

Christians don’t even believe that baptism or ordinances are essential anyway which is obviously why they don’t believe specific authority or priesthood is required either.

Simon the Sorcerer wanted to buy the power and authority that the Apostles had. I don’t remember them saying - hey dude it’s ok, just believe and you’ll magically have authority come upon you man...

But aren't Latter-day Saints Christians? We know baptism is essential. Why Christ, himself, was baptized and I think he was Christian.

[Vision]

Try to raise someone from the dead without priesthood authority.
Try giving someone a healing blessing without priesthood authority.

How do you account for the example's of these very acts by people that don't have the "priesthood authority" as taught by Mormonism?

I could be incorrect, but I think it falls under priestcraft. So what is your point exactly?

Priestcraft? Like selling tee shirts #ponderize

[TIFI]

Our modern church is 100% connected to all God's will. End of story

[Mindfields]

Priest-craft has this weird blinding effect. You can only see it in other religions but can't see it in your own.

[righteousrepublic]

Priest-craft has this weird blinding effect. You can only see it in other religions but can't see it in your own.

This may be a Utah thing, but not necessarily elsewhere. When I lived in Utah I experienced some weird actions by a bishop or two.
I eventually came to a stage where I didn't trust bishops because I came to know that some bishops blab to other members what they heard from someone while in a personal interview. A bishop is to keep their mouth shut dealing with personal stuff that was divulged to them and is to remain between the bishop and the one repenting, or whatever. I found a very good bishop out of state that people could confide in and be confident that anything said would remain confidential.