The telestial kingdom reality

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Rick Grimes
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Re: The telestial kingdom reality

Post by Rick Grimes »

There were a lot of early thoughts in the first days of the church that were shared, but proved to not be the case. Heck, some of the early prophets thought there were men living on the moon. That doesnt invalidate them as prophets, it was just their personal opinion. MMP is a curious "doctrine " that doesnt stand the test of scriptures or modern day revelation. People quote Joseph with "Eternal Lives" and think that reincarnation is a thing.🙄 Now, when we are talking about the different roles or "offices" we might one day hold, that makes more sense. But to say that we cast off our resurrected bodies to be born again in another existence, I couldn't think of a worse hell than being on a time loop like that, just repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Its not at all necessary, frankly. We already have had literally eternity to learn and learned directly from our parents in heaven before we came here. When the big decision came, a third of us chose another path and consequently are not here to recieve bodies. This is why they envy and hate us. This is why the scriptures are replete with examples of evil spirits desperate to inhabit a body that they have never had. Even to the point of begging the Savior to allow them to enter into pigs if they could not stay in the young man they had possessed.
This probationary period is kind of the last test to see if we will keep our second estate and recieve exalation or whatever reward we are fit for. In the end, I think after eons of existence, we are ready to make a decision on where we want to be. The kingdoms of glory sound wonderful, each in their own light. I'm sure their will be absolute bliss and happiness in any kingdom you end up in, hence why Joseph said what he said about people would kill themselves if they saw how good it would be. However, eternal progression can only happen for those that make it to the celestial Kingdom as the necessary ordinances to enter it are earthly ordinances and must be done in the flesh, either in person or by proxy after one has died. When the Lords final judgement is handed down, this work will be done. (For our generation of people or round of existence) Those that have been exalted will then go on "from grace to grace and exaltation to exaltation" by creating their own worlds and spirit children. They will hold the "office" of Heavenly Father and Mother, and their first born son would have to be the savior for their children as it has been done in the past in other worlds or existence. (Satan was not lying in that regard) But the people that will inhabit these worlds will be OUR spirit children, not the children of Elohim. His children will have already lived and died and are living out their rewards. Elohim's glory would continue to grow as His children that were exalted would continue the work of the Gods in the propagation of our species, creating worlds and bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of men, so they too can become Gods.
The plan of salvation is indeed beautiful, as designed and is in no need of MMP for it to work. Indeed, it would invalidate the purpose and promise of our Lords atonement, in promising no more death, because He conquered it for us. It seems silly to look to Buddhism for light and knowledge when we already have the established word of God all pointing to this life being our chance to prove ourselves.

Nomanknowsmyname
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Posts: 108

Re: The telestial kingdom reality

Post by Nomanknowsmyname »

TylerDurden wrote: January 2nd, 2020, 1:38 am
Kingdom of ZION wrote: January 2nd, 2020, 1:31 am
TylerDurden wrote: January 1st, 2020, 9:49 pm
Kingdom of ZION wrote: January 1st, 2020, 4:34 am

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom
I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.
BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.
So women are protected in that they cannot sin against the Holy Ghost? Women cannot become daughters of perdition? Anyone who receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who covenants with satan and sheds innocent blood become sons or daughters of perdition. Just as anyone who is born again in Christ becomes his sons or daughters.

There are many things which Brigham Young has said that are false (polygamy for exaltation, blood atonement, etc.). Perhaps this is another?
"26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord." (D&C 132:26 - 27)

When someone is thoroughly qualified to receive blessings from God that are secured by obedience to sacred covenants, these blessings are sealed upon that individual. When one's calling and election is made sure, one is truly "sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise" in an ultimate sense so that all blessings that were previously sealed upon their heads in a conditional sense are now unconditionally sealed upon their heads. It is of course true that all saving covenants, including eternal marriage, are necessary for this ultimate sealing to occur. This ultimate sealing is unconditional with one exception, which is blasphemy against or denying the Holy Ghost.

My current understanding of these verses is that the "innocent blood" referred to in verse 27 is the blood of Christ, so that to deny the Holy Ghost is to deny the blessings of eternal life that the Holy Spirit of promise has sealed upon one's head after having received a perfect knowledge of the reality of Christ and his atoning sacrifice, and a full assurance of the blessings of eternal life. This is essentially equated with murdering the savior; because if someone has a perfect knowledge of the reality of the savior's atonement and fully rejects it (because one can only fully reject Christ and his atonement after receiving a perfect knowledge) this is akin to assenting unto Christ's death in the sense that individuals who do this clearly demonstrate that they would prefer to live in a universe where Christ had been crucified without actually having completed an atoning sacrifice. The wickedness of such individuals exceeds the wickedness of the Jews who demanded before Pilate that Christ be crucified, and is comparable to that of Judas Iscariot (who sold Christ for silver), whom Christ seems to be referring to as "the son of perdition" in the following verse:

"But behold, it sorroweth me because of the fourth generation from this generation, for they are led away captive by him even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt and which thieves can break through and steal. And in that day will I visit them, even in turning their works upon their own heads." (3 Ne. 27:32)

The following verses also make it quite clear that one must receive far more than the gift of the Holy Ghost to become a son of perdition:

"30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;" (D&C 76:30 - 32)

To become a son of perdition one must know of Christ's power and be made a partaker thereof, which not only means that one must have a sure knowledge of Christ and his power, but that one must receive a promise of godhood.
D&C 76:51 - 52 talks about baptism by water and of the Spirit; but verse 53 shows that there is a distinction between receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost and being "sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true." Verses 54 - 58 speak specifically of these individuals, and in verse 58 it says that
"they are gods, even the sons of God", because their exaltation has been guaranteed, provided that they do not commit the unpardonable sin.

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Alexander
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Re: The telestial kingdom reality

Post by Alexander »

Rick Grimes wrote: January 12th, 2020, 6:06 am There were a lot of early thoughts in the first days of the church that were shared, but proved to not be the case. Heck, some of the early prophets thought there were men living on the moon. That doesnt invalidate them as prophets, it was just their personal opinion. MMP is a curious "doctrine " that doesnt stand the test of scriptures or modern day revelation. People quote Joseph with "Eternal Lives" and think that reincarnation is a thing.🙄 Now, when we are talking about the different roles or "offices" we might one day hold, that makes more sense. But to say that we cast off our resurrected bodies to be born again in another existence, I couldn't think of a worse hell than being on a time loop like that, just repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Its not at all necessary, frankly. We already have had literally eternity to learn and learned directly from our parents in heaven before we came here. When the big decision came, a third of us chose another path and consequently are not here to recieve bodies. This is why they envy and hate us. This is why the scriptures are replete with examples of evil spirits desperate to inhabit a body that they have never had. Even to the point of begging the Savior to allow them to enter into pigs if they could not stay in the young man they had possessed.
This probationary period is kind of the last test to see if we will keep our second estate and recieve exalation or whatever reward we are fit for. In the end, I think after eons of existence, we are ready to make a decision on where we want to be. The kingdoms of glory sound wonderful, each in their own light. I'm sure their will be absolute bliss and happiness in any kingdom you end up in, hence why Joseph said what he said about people would kill themselves if they saw how good it would be. However, eternal progression can only happen for those that make it to the celestial Kingdom as the necessary ordinances to enter it are earthly ordinances and must be done in the flesh, either in person or by proxy after one has died. When the Lords final judgement is handed down, this work will be done. (For our generation of people or round of existence) Those that have been exalted will then go on "from grace to grace and exaltation to exaltation" by creating their own worlds and spirit children. They will hold the "office" of Heavenly Father and Mother, and their first born son would have to be the savior for their children as it has been done in the past in other worlds or existence. (Satan was not lying in that regard) But the people that will inhabit these worlds will be OUR spirit children, not the children of Elohim. His children will have already lived and died and are living out their rewards. Elohim's glory would continue to grow as His children that were exalted would continue the work of the Gods in the propagation of our species, creating worlds and bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of men, so they too can become Gods.
The plan of salvation is indeed beautiful, as designed and is in no need of MMP for it to work. Indeed, it would invalidate the purpose and promise of our Lords atonement, in promising no more death, because He conquered it for us. It seems silly to look to Buddhism for light and knowledge when we already have the established word of God all pointing to this life being our chance to prove ourselves.
In the scriptures, when it says Jesus promises no more death, he is talking about the life of our spirits in that they will never be separated from his presence. His death and resurrection looses the bands of temporal death, meaning people will not fall into eternal damnation in Satan’s grasp because of the fall, and he looses the bands of spiritual death, meaning those who come unto him and repent will be saved and cannot be separated from God because of the Gift of the Holy Ghost ascension they receive. The whole purpose of his death and resurrection is to allow us to ascend beyond the telestial realm by being saved if we choose him.

IMO I don’t see that MMP invalidates the atonement. If we don’t repent and come unto him, we will never be saved and ascend, and become exalted. If we choose not to repent become saved in Christ, we will be content with what we have and will inherit the telestial kingdom.

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nightlight
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Posts: 8544

Re: The telestial kingdom reality

Post by nightlight »

TylerDurden wrote: January 12th, 2020, 5:53 pm
Rick Grimes wrote: January 12th, 2020, 6:06 am There were a lot of early thoughts in the first days of the church that were shared, but proved to not be the case. Heck, some of the early prophets thought there were men living on the moon. That doesnt invalidate them as prophets, it was just their personal opinion. MMP is a curious "doctrine " that doesnt stand the test of scriptures or modern day revelation. People quote Joseph with "Eternal Lives" and think that reincarnation is a thing.🙄 Now, when we are talking about the different roles or "offices" we might one day hold, that makes more sense. But to say that we cast off our resurrected bodies to be born again in another existence, I couldn't think of a worse hell than being on a time loop like that, just repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Its not at all necessary, frankly. We already have had literally eternity to learn and learned directly from our parents in heaven before we came here. When the big decision came, a third of us chose another path and consequently are not here to recieve bodies. This is why they envy and hate us. This is why the scriptures are replete with examples of evil spirits desperate to inhabit a body that they have never had. Even to the point of begging the Savior to allow them to enter into pigs if they could not stay in the young man they had possessed.
This probationary period is kind of the last test to see if we will keep our second estate and recieve exalation or whatever reward we are fit for. In the end, I think after eons of existence, we are ready to make a decision on where we want to be. The kingdoms of glory sound wonderful, each in their own light. I'm sure their will be absolute bliss and happiness in any kingdom you end up in, hence why Joseph said what he said about people would kill themselves if they saw how good it would be. However, eternal progression can only happen for those that make it to the celestial Kingdom as the necessary ordinances to enter it are earthly ordinances and must be done in the flesh, either in person or by proxy after one has died. When the Lords final judgement is handed down, this work will be done. (For our generation of people or round of existence) Those that have been exalted will then go on "from grace to grace and exaltation to exaltation" by creating their own worlds and spirit children. They will hold the "office" of Heavenly Father and Mother, and their first born son would have to be the savior for their children as it has been done in the past in other worlds or existence. (Satan was not lying in that regard) But the people that will inhabit these worlds will be OUR spirit children, not the children of Elohim. His children will have already lived and died and are living out their rewards. Elohim's glory would continue to grow as His children that were exalted would continue the work of the Gods in the propagation of our species, creating worlds and bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of men, so they too can become Gods.
The plan of salvation is indeed beautiful, as designed and is in no need of MMP for it to work. Indeed, it would invalidate the purpose and promise of our Lords atonement, in promising no more death, because He conquered it for us. It seems silly to look to Buddhism for light and knowledge when we already have the established word of God all pointing to this life being our chance to prove ourselves.
In the scriptures, when it says Jesus promises no more death, he is talking about the life of our spirits in that they will never be separated from his presence. His death and resurrection looses the bands of temporal death, meaning people will not fall into eternal damnation in Satan’s grasp because of the fall, and he looses the bands of spiritual death, meaning those who come unto him and repent will be saved and cannot be separated from God because of the Gift of the Holy Ghost ascension they receive. The whole purpose of his death and resurrection is to allow us to ascend beyond the telestial realm by being saved if we choose him.

IMO I don’t see that MMP invalidates the atonement. If we don’t repent and come unto him, we will never be saved and ascend, and become exalted. If we choose not to repent become saved in Christ, we will be content with what we have and will inherit the telestial kingdom.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
---------------!!!!!

“I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me. … I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold [me].

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PickleRick
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Posts: 242

Re: The telestial kingdom reality

Post by PickleRick »

I don't mean to mock anyone, and I don't know whether MMP is the answer - but anyone that believes that they are going to live this life, be judged, and go forevermore to their designated mansion in whatever kingdom, I feel has a very Primary-like and oversimplified view. I know that's the missionary flip-chart and or the chalk board drawing that we have all seen numerous times.

Bottom line: Justice and Mercy will both be satisfied. In the end, EVERY knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ and glory to God for the end result (with the few exceptions of those that will deny the sun in the sky at noon-day). That's good enough. Whether it is by MMP or some kind of after-mortality "Remedial Righteousness 101" class - it's all gonna be good.

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