The telestial kingdom reality

[Alexander]

This world is a telestial world. What are your thoughts on the idea that the telestial kingdom is this mortal life? That those who inherit the telestial kingdom receive another mortality in another telestial world continuing their probation.

This would make sense if there is progression between kingdoms.

2 Nephi
21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

[inho]

D&C 76
89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.

[mes5464]

D&C 76
89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.

Amen

[Kingdom of ZION]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

[The Airbender]

I believe the only reason someone will stop progressing is if they no longer desire to progress.

That being said, to live a mortal life is to be given an opportunity to progress. You don’t descend to a mortal tabernacle and live a life if you are content to stay where you are.

It seems to me the beings who live several lives do so because they have a goal in mind.

[Alexander]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

[Alexander]

I believe the only reason someone will stop progressing is if they no longer desire to progress.

That being said, to live a mortal life is to be given an opportunity to progress. You don’t descend to a mortal tabernacle and live a life if you are content to stay where you are.

It seems to me the beings who live several lives do so because they have a goal in mind.

perhaps their interests are to progress downward and become a son of perdition? We are put in a position to choose the light or dark. We could assume that the telestial kingdom is the base middle of progression. We can ascend upwards toward God and, or downward toward Satan and darkness. Let's say someone never ascended to a higher estate, but never descended and became a son of perdition. They never accepted the gospel but never succumb to evil. They were innocent without knowelge. They are promised they will be given a chance to receive the gospel in the "next life". Perhaps the next life is another mortality.

[Alexander]

This would make sense that Celestial and terrestrial beings can administer and visit those in the telestial kingdom.

D&C 76
86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the aministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be aministering spirits for them; for they shall be bheirs of salvation.

[Robin Hood]

This world is a telestial world. What are your thoughts on the idea that the telestial kingdom is this mortal life? That those who inherit the telestial kingdom receive another mortality in another telestial world continuing their probation.

This would make sense if there is progression between kingdoms.

2 Nephi
21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

Interesting concept.

[tmac]

. . . . There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

KoZ: Based on other posts and previous exchanges, this is not what I was expecting to hear you say.

I guess I'm confused as ever about the Doctrine of Eternal Lives.

[djinwa]

. . . . There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

KoZ: Based on other posts and previous exchanges, this is not what I was expecting to hear you say.

I guess I'm confused as ever about the Doctrine of Eternal Lives.

Thousands of hours and thousands of dollars spent trying to be worthy of an eternal reward, and we don't know what we're getting.

And the prophet seems to busy managing money to find the answers. We're left to debate the matter on the internet.

[Kingdom of ZION]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

[Kingdom of ZION]

. . . . There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

KoZ: Based on other posts and previous exchanges, this is not what I was expecting to hear you say.

I guess I'm confused as ever about the Doctrine of Eternal Lives.

I am sorry, I do not wish to cause anyone confusion!

There is a path of eternal progression, called the 'Eight Estates of Probation and Progression' the first four are probationary estates. The fifth estate where a man becomes the Holy Anointed One or Messiah and Savior of the World. There was four Penalties in the original Endowment, that JS and BY administered. If you can pass the final test, the Eternal Sacrifice, then you will have made it to the Celestial kingdom. Yes, the tests do end, and once you are sorted into your proper kingdom or house, you then receive the matching body appropriate for that kingdom, eternally united.

I could easily go into greater detail...

Shalom

[Alexander]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.

[Kingdom of ZION]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

[Alexander]

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

So women are protected in that they cannot sin against the Holy Ghost? Women cannot become daughters of perdition? Anyone who receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who covenants with satan and sheds innocent blood become sons or daughters of perdition. Just as anyone who is born again in Christ becomes his sons or daughters.

There are many things which Brigham Young has said that are false (polygamy for exaltation, blood atonement, etc.). Perhaps this is another?

[MMbelieve]

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

So women are protected in that they cannot sin against the Holy Ghost? Women cannot become daughters of perdition? Anyone who receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost, who covenants with satan and sheds innocent blood become sons or daughters of perdition. Just as anyone who is born again in Christ becomes his sons or daughters.

There are many things which Brigham Young has said that are false (polygamy for exaltation, blood atonement, etc.). Perhaps this is another?

Truth is, we only have male examples of it AND I believe it’s pretty hard to become a son of perdition anyways.
I doubt there will be many who qualify for such a place.

[MMbelieve]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.

If it was only men then God created way more men than women. We have a pretty equal ratio of births for those who came to earth.

[MMbelieve]

You would not be willing to kill yourself to go to a place like this!

In the Millennium, at the end when the Adversary is loosed for a season, those who brake their covenant of chastity will sire the Immortal Telestial Beings, those who are born into the second resurrection out of fornication. There is no such think as Kingdom progression in the eternities.

Shalom

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Only those who receive exaltation (versus salvation) will have eternal progression and increase. No one else will.
Every one of the three kingdoms are a “glory” thus each are a reward. I do not believe in progression between kingdoms, we will be happy where we end up unless it’s outerdarkness.

[Kingdom of ZION]

If there is no such thing as progression between kingdoms, are the Kingdoms locked? Does it seem likely that the Lord would punish us infinitely for our finite actions? (I am aware that the punishment is a natural consequence of our actions, and God is the judge) It would make more sense to have progression between kingdoms as this would confirm God being perfectly just and merciful. What's eternal progression without progression between kingdoms?

Everything shall fulfill the full measure of it creation/organization. The different kinds of intelligence's are like water, they seek their own level! Is there eternal progression within each kingdom, and hence everything is either ascending or descending? YES! However, these intelligence's that make up everything that hath life in it, were and always will be eternal, and they having no beginning, wherefore they will have no ending. If something was not a god, it cannot become a God, for it would have an end, because it had a beginning. It must have always been a god, to be a God forever.

God's judgement are perfect! He knowing all things, knows what everything is, it's proper name, and all ones deeds done throughout time and all eternity, G_d know perfectly what everything IS! When the third part of heaven rebelled, they were all men, there was no women. What actually happened was, two thirds of all men created/organized for our creation, fell and were cast down here in the beginning. They are here the seed of the evil one, the serpent, and not the seed of Adam! Yes, they all have received a body, and are part of this creation, having complied with the law governing creations, and they shall one day be cast out into outer darkness, as it is written... so shall it be. They are they that failed the first estate.

We have perfect hind sight of most of this creation, the second estate. There was initially two out of three men failing before they were even born here! The question is, Is there going to be more lost here after they have lived? As it is written the world is going to hell. So, YES! We will be loosing even more men and now even some women too, as they can both go to hell, for failing the second estate!

G_d did not create us, He organized us! When we fall short of glory, it was not that He made us imperfect, or made us do what was required to fall. If one is a liar from the beginning, even though he had walked the path of eternal progression for many estates and creations, ones true nature is eventually manifested and G_d's judgement is perfect and eternal, as all of His words and deeds are. He does not condemn one for the deeds of the heart. You must brake the Eternal Law, to be condemned, by receiving the penalty affixed to each estate, even if someone decided to delete the Penalty from ceremonial instructions.

Sending people by judgement and resurrection to the glory that they have qualified for and can bear and are most comfortable with, is "being perfectly just and merciful". Once eternally united with a resurrected body, that is the kingdom they shall dwell in forever.

Shalom

I'm not so sure it's fair to say there were only men who rebelled against God; those who were cast into outer darkness.

If it was only men then God created way more men than women. We have a pretty equal ratio of births for those who came to earth.

You must have missed the point I made above about how Sons of Perdition were cast down here and DO receive bodies. This false doctrine was first subscribed to and taught by Joseph F. Smith, that the children of Satan do not receive bodies here. It is a false doctrine that has crept into Mormonism, just as it did in Christianity (study the book of Jude for an example). That is why we have a fairly balance birth rate.

To become a SoP, you have to rebel in the presence of G_d, having a full knowledge of the truth. To do it here, the veil has to be parted and you are warned first. Women having a true nature of being Good, will not in the light of day, deny G_d! Men having the true nature of being evil or the natural man, which has been a enemy of G_d from the beginning, are the ONLY beings or creatures created (organized) by G_d, that are stupid enough and willing to do it.

So says the scriptures, BY who faithfully taught what JS taught him, as well as did JT, and many others. Yes the LDS Leaders in the past century have began to teach a 180 degree opposite of many of these doctrines, and to come more into harmony with the world. That is what apostasy is, and always has been, all throughout time. G_d reveals the truth, and men change it, they stop living it, and then the following generations are not told it, told the truth. The BoM is a perfect example of this, sent to the Gentiles to warn them of such evil. It did not stop them however, and they have done what Yisrael has done for thousands of years.

There is ONLY one Gospel and one Truth, and it keeps getting restored but men keep apostatizing from the truth. The Jews, the Christians, and know the Mormons have all lost the basic tenets of Celestial Laws of the Gospel, and have refused to live such Laws to build Zion. We are running out of time, there is no people or city for the True King to return too!

HE WILL start again! When the time for the Wedding comes, He will send His servants out into the street, to compel others to come, because those who were invited refused to come, when the appointed time does comes! It is almost time!!!

[abijah`]

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

personal experience aside, i feel like a woman who cant entirely fall also cant entirely rise. if there are no daughters of perdition, how can a woman be exalted for true?

[Kingdom of ZION]

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

personal experience aside, i feel like a woman who cant entirely fall also cant entirely rise. if there are no daughters of perdition, how can a woman be exalted for true?

You are absolutely correct here! They cannot fall as far as men, no rise as high. G_d is G_d... I am that I am... not We are that We are! Can there be a G_d without Women? NO! Nor vise a versa but until the Man passes through the veil, the Women that are sealed to Him cannot. If their Husband and King falls, they have to come down here again to be resealed up unto another King. Much more can be said about this understanding of the heavens, but most here will not here it. They want to fashion a god in there own image or by the desires of their own intellect, heart, or feelings. That is the personal great apostasy! Women as well as Men want it to be all inclusive. That is what the world wants and teaches! It brings only disappointment and death!

[MMbelieve]

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

personal experience aside, i feel like a woman who cant entirely fall also cant entirely rise. if there are no daughters of perdition, how can a woman be exalted for true?

You are absolutely correct here! They cannot fall as far as men, no rise as high. G_d is G_d... I am that I am... not We are that We are! Can there be a G_d without Women? NO! Nor vise a versa but until the Man passes through the veil, the Women that are sealed to Him cannot. If their Husband and King falls, they have to come down here again to be resealed up unto another King. Much more can be said about this understanding of the heavens, but most here will not here it. They want to fashion a god in there own image or by the desires of their own intellect, heart, or feelings. That is the personal great apostasy! Women as well as Men want it to be all inclusive. That is what the world wants and teaches! It brings only disappointment and death!

You saying a man can bring himself through the veil?

Based on what your implying, most women will have a nearly never ending recycle back to earth with a nearly never ending amount of husbands. Few make it after this life and are qualified for a celestial glory as a couple and if a woman is completely dependent upon a “naturally evil” man then the system seems designed to be against women with no fault of their own. Your presentation seems more fitting if the naturally good woman brings the less than good man under her wing and she qualifies them both.

I can see this design you have presented as being from a mind of a polygamist viewpoint. But since polygamy is not a requirement for a couple to be exalted (BY even agreed with this) then I tend to chalk this up to early church creative preaching from the pulpit only.

[MMbelieve]

BY said that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition, and many other have said such. I have shared my witness that there is no such thing as Daughters of Perdition for 30 years now. One needs their own witness, on this and many other things in the Gospel.

personal experience aside, i feel like a woman who cant entirely fall also cant entirely rise. if there are no daughters of perdition, how can a woman be exalted for true?

This is simply not true. Men do not get to be the only exciting ones with a full range of expression and women are only mediocre. If a man rises then he has an equal worthy wife by his side.

If he is implying that a woman cannot entirely rise to the rank of “man” then he’s right, women are not men. But women are not less than men. This belief is dangerous and shouldn’t be taught simply because a woman doesn’t have the same role as a man. We do not know much of anything about the role of women so shouldn’t assume. Like the real life here, men get all the recognition because they are out of the home doing jobs and such but behind the scenes (just like women are behind the scenes in the gospel records) are doing the main work, not the supplemental work.

[larsenb]

I frankly have an issue with people pre-empting names of well-known writers as their screen names. I think you should cease and desist on this.