LDS Freedom Forum

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Luke wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 10:22 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 3rd, 2020, 4:34 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑December 30th, 2019, 8:45 am

Decided to check date of the posted image, and an amazing number appeared:
https://www.google.com/search?q=city+cr ... =659&dpr=2

Chrome is my goto browser for photo stuff. Said amazing number appears on Safari too, but not brave.

Right edge above the fold , but not left of center. gbng

Anyone confirm

I have no idea what you're talking about. Any chance of some clarification?

I think they're talking about City Creek Mall.

Weird that unique visitor count matched up with date marking end of seven years prosperity. Prolly should check correlation with City Creek Mall. But really, how did Joseph account his prosperity?

Eclipse matchups coincided with the standing prophets last birthday, and many other manifestations, have squoze personal doubt to infinitesimal proportions..

Squeeze , but not squoze. dbnp

Luke wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 3:21 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Luke wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 10:22 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑January 3rd, 2020, 4:34 pm

I have no idea what you're talking about. Any chance of some clarification?

I think they're talking about City Creek Mall.

Weird that unique visitor count matched up with date marking end of seven years prosperity. Prolly should check correlation with City Creek Mall. But really, how did Joseph account his prosperity?

Eclipse matchups coincided with the standing prophets last birthday, and many other manifestations, have squoze personal doubt to infinitesimal proportions..

Squeeze , but not squoze. dbnp

When is the date marking the end of seven years prosperity?

JohnnyL wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 9:55 pm

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 8:40 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 7:29 pm I think there are three types, with varying degrees in each:
All is well: they think it really is pretty good. Life is good, church is good, don't work too hard unless it's fun.
All is wrong: ever since JS/BY/[pick your prophet], the apostles aren't in touch with God, aren't wise stewards, twist things, are hypocritical, don't hold the priesthood keys, etc.
All is what it is: trust the prophets, but be careful with other members (types 1 and 2) and the world; be meek and humble; work hard on your salvation; things will work out.

I think that both the first and third types are what Nephi is trying to warn us against.

2 Nephi 9:14-16
Therefore will the Lord cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush in one day.
The ancient, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are bled of them are destroyed.

Nephi is talking about the folks who believe that they are God's most special people whom he will never allow to be led astray, and who close their eyes to all the evidence that the men at the top are compromising their standards, becoming more wordly, and failing to warn their followers of the wrath to come.

"things will work out" - whatever the hell that means - is just a dumber way of saying "all is well."

Absolutely not. We are warned about the first and second, and told to be the third. Otherwise, you don't understand Nephi. Only a third would ever be able to understand him.

Nope, not just a dumber way to say what you think it says. Things will work out for the righteous--a testimony of that will be helpful necessary for the last days.

Mindfields wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 11:04 am

Wilford Woodruff, while serving in the Quorum of the Twelve, said: “Brother Joseph used to counsel us in this wise: ‘The moment you permit yourselves to lay aside any duty that God calls you to perform, to gratify your own desires; the moment you permit yourselves to become careless, you lay a foundation for apostasy. Be careful; understand you are called to a work, and when God requires you to do that work do it.’

Too bad he didn't take his own advice.

Mindfields wrote: ↑January 14th, 2020, 8:41 am Wilford Woodruff was a polygamist. I find it ironic that he tells others that "to gratify your own desires" will lead to apostasy all the while committing, in my opinion, adultery on a grand scale.

lundbaek wrote: ↑January 14th, 2020, 2:19 pm My interpretation of the expression "All is well in Zion" is that those who believe it think that:

Most LDS Church members are active in their various callings, paying a full tithe, are temple worthy, studying their "Come Follow Me..." lessons, and obeying ALL the commandments that God has given us.

The forces of evil are being held in check and not instigating evil among the Latter-day Saints.

What have I missed?

Luke 18:10-12
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess....

Mindfields wrote: ↑January 14th, 2020, 8:41 am Wilford Woodruff was a polygamist. I find it ironic that he tells others that "to gratify your own desires" will lead to apostasy all the while committing, in my opinion, adultery on a grand scale.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 8:40 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 7:29 pm I think there are three types, with varying degrees in each:
All is well: they think it really is pretty good. Life is good, church is good, don't work too hard unless it's fun.
All is wrong: ever since JS/BY/[pick your prophet], the apostles aren't in touch with God, aren't wise stewards, twist things, are hypocritical, don't hold the priesthood keys, etc.
All is what it is: trust the prophets, but be careful with other members (types 1 and 2) and the world; be meek and humble; work hard on your salvation; things will work out.

I think that both the first and third types are what Nephi is trying to warn us against.

2 Nephi 19:14-16
Therefore will the Lord cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush in one day.
The ancient, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

Nephi is talking about the folks who believe that they are God's most special people whom he will never allow to be led astray, and who close their eyes to all the evidence that the men at the top are compromising their standards, becoming more wordly, and failing to warn their followers of the wrath to come.

"things will work out" - whatever the hell that means - is just a dumber way of saying "all is well."

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑January 15th, 2020, 9:23 pm

lundbaek wrote: ↑January 14th, 2020, 2:19 pm My interpretation of the expression "All is well in Zion" is that those who believe it think that:

Most LDS Church members are active in their various callings, paying a full tithe, are temple worthy, studying their "Come Follow Me..." lessons, and obeying ALL the commandments that God has given us.

The forces of evil are being held in check and not instigating evil among the Latter-day Saints.

What have I missed?

I think that's a pretty fair interpretation of the phrase.

Granted, all but the last of your statements can be true without saying much in favor of our spiritual condition. You can be active in your calling, pay a full tithe, be temple worthy, study your "Come Follow Me" lessons, and still be a bad Christian. You just have to be like this guy:

Luke 18:10-12
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess....

It seems fairly straightforward to me: Some forms of religion attract lukewarm followers. Just do what you're told to do: Go to the temple, pay your tithing, and make a point of avoiding a few prominent sins like adultery. It's actually quite easy to live a prideful, materialistic, and frivolous life within the constraints of any major religion, Mormonism included.

Sometimes when people realize that, they complain that we need even more rules, but they're missing the point. Make any set of worthiness protocalls you want, and people will still find a way to conform even though their heart is in the wrong place.

As for the last item, "obeying ALL the commandments that God has given us," well, if you think that ever described us, you've got another think coming.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑January 15th, 2020, 9:23 pm

lundbaek wrote: ↑January 14th, 2020, 2:19 pm My interpretation of the expression "All is well in Zion" is that those who believe it think that:

Most LDS Church members are active in their various callings, paying a full tithe, are temple worthy, studying their "Come Follow Me..." lessons, and obeying ALL the commandments that God has given us.

The forces of evil are being held in check and not instigating evil among the Latter-day Saints.

What have I missed?

I think that's a pretty fair interpretation of the phrase.

Granted, all but the last of your statements can be true without saying much in favor of our spiritual condition. You can be active in your calling, pay a full tithe, be temple worthy, study your "Come Follow Me" lessons, and still be a bad Christian. You just have to be like this guy:

Luke 18:10-12
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess....

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 12:34 am

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 8:40 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 7:29 pm I think there are three types, with varying degrees in each:
All is well: they think it really is pretty good. Life is good, church is good, don't work too hard unless it's fun.
All is wrong: ever since JS/BY/[pick your prophet], the apostles aren't in touch with God, aren't wise stewards, twist things, are hypocritical, don't hold the priesthood keys, etc.
All is what it is: trust the prophets, but be careful with other members (types 1 and 2) and the world; be meek and humble; work hard on your salvation; things will work out.

I think that both the first and third types are what Nephi is trying to warn us against.

2 Nephi 19:14-16
Therefore will the Lord cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush in one day.
The ancient, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

Nephi is talking about the folks who believe that they are God's most special people whom he will never allow to be led astray, and who close their eyes to all the evidence that the men at the top are compromising their standards, becoming more wordly, and failing to warn their followers of the wrath to come.

"things will work out" - whatever the hell that means - is just a dumber way of saying "all is well."

It’s Isaiah but Nephi did put them into his record word for word because they were of great worth to the children of men.

From the intro to the chapter in the Book of Mormon
“2 Nephi : Chapter 19
Isaiah speaks messianically—The people in darkness will see a great light—Unto us a child is born—He will be the Prince of Peace and will reign on David’s throne—Compare Isaiah 9. About 559–545 B.C.”.

The meaning is the same and I agree with what Isaiah and Nephi are saying.

All is definitely NOT WELL in Zion

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 8:32 am

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 12:34 am

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 8:40 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 7:29 pm I think there are three types, with varying degrees in each:
All is well: they think it really is pretty good. Life is good, church is good, don't work too hard unless it's fun.
All is wrong: ever since JS/BY/[pick your prophet], the apostles aren't in touch with God, aren't wise stewards, twist things, are hypocritical, don't hold the priesthood keys, etc.
All is what it is: trust the prophets, but be careful with other members (types 1 and 2) and the world; be meek and humble; work hard on your salvation; things will work out.

I think that both the first and third types are what Nephi is trying to warn us against.

2 Nephi 19:14-16
Therefore will the Lord cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush in one day.
The ancient, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

Nephi is talking about the folks who believe that they are God's most special people whom he will never allow to be led astray, and who close their eyes to all the evidence that the men at the top are compromising their standards, becoming more wordly, and failing to warn their followers of the wrath to come.

"things will work out" - whatever the hell that means - is just a dumber way of saying "all is well."

It’s Isaiah but Nephi did put them into his record word for word because they were of great worth to the children of men.

From the intro to the chapter in the Book of Mormon
“2 Nephi : Chapter 19
Isaiah speaks messianically—The people in darkness will see a great light—Unto us a child is born—He will be the Prince of Peace and will reign on David’s throne—Compare Isaiah 9. About 559–545 B.C.”.

The meaning is the same and I agree with what Isaiah and Nephi are saying.

All is definitely NOT WELL in Zion

Isaiah 9

14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel
head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head,
the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12). Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

*note
In Isaiah - "Egypt" is the U.S. - just as anciently - Egypt was the superpower.

Isaiah 19

14 Jehovah has permeated them
with a spirit of confusion;
they have misled Egypt in all that it does,
causing it to stagger like a drunkard into his vomit.
15 And there shall be nothing the Egyptians
can do about it,
neither head nor tail, palm top or reed.

Egypt’s ruling elite resemble disoriented persons possessed by a spirit of confusion who lead an entire nation astray, politically and economically. The people’s cumulative guilt has reached its saturation point. Only Jehovah’s judgments can cleanse the nation of its wickedness and idolatry (v 3). The motifs of a “drunkard” who “staggers” into his “vomit” link the nation of Egypt to Jehovah’s people of the tribe of Ephraim and to Ephraim’s intoxicated prophets (Isaiah 28:1, 3, 7-8; 56:10-12). The “head” and “tail,” “palm top” and “reed” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 7:8-9; 9:14-15; 36:6).

cab wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:49 pm

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 8:32 am

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 12:34 am

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑December 29th, 2019, 8:40 pm

I think that both the first and third types are what Nephi is trying to warn us against.



Nephi is talking about the folks who believe that they are God's most special people whom he will never allow to be led astray, and who close their eyes to all the evidence that the men at the top are compromising their standards, becoming more wordly, and failing to warn their followers of the wrath to come.

"things will work out" - whatever the hell that means - is just a dumber way of saying "all is well."

It’s Isaiah but Nephi did put them into his record word for word because they were of great worth to the children of men.

From the intro to the chapter in the Book of Mormon
“2 Nephi : Chapter 19
Isaiah speaks messianically—The people in darkness will see a great light—Unto us a child is born—He will be the Prince of Peace and will reign on David’s throne—Compare Isaiah 9. About 559–545 B.C.”.

The meaning is the same and I agree with what Isaiah and Nephi are saying.

All is definitely NOT WELL in Zion

Isaiah 9

14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel
head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head,
the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12). Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

*note
In Isaiah - "Egypt" is the U.S. - just as anciently - Egypt was the superpower.

Isaiah 19

14 Jehovah has permeated them
with a spirit of confusion;
they have misled Egypt in all that it does,
causing it to stagger like a drunkard into his vomit.
15 And there shall be nothing the Egyptians
can do about it,
neither head nor tail, palm top or reed.

Egypt’s ruling elite resemble disoriented persons possessed by a spirit of confusion who lead an entire nation astray, politically and economically. The people’s cumulative guilt has reached its saturation point. Only Jehovah’s judgments can cleanse the nation of its wickedness and idolatry (v 3). The motifs of a “drunkard” who “staggers” into his “vomit” link the nation of Egypt to Jehovah’s people of the tribe of Ephraim and to Ephraim’s intoxicated prophets (Isaiah 28:1, 3, 7-8; 56:10-12). The “head” and “tail,” “palm top” and “reed” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 7:8-9; 9:14-15; 36:6).

Are you "I AM"?

Stahura wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:56 pm

cab wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:49 pm

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 8:32 am

sandman45 wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 12:34 am

It’s Isaiah but Nephi did put them into his record word for word because they were of great worth to the children of men.

From the intro to the chapter in the Book of Mormon
“2 Nephi : Chapter 19
Isaiah speaks messianically—The people in darkness will see a great light—Unto us a child is born—He will be the Prince of Peace and will reign on David’s throne—Compare Isaiah 9. About 559–545 B.C.”.

The meaning is the same and I agree with what Isaiah and Nephi are saying.

All is definitely NOT WELL in Zion

Isaiah 9

14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel
head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head,
the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12). Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

*note
In Isaiah - "Egypt" is the U.S. - just as anciently - Egypt was the superpower.

Isaiah 19

14 Jehovah has permeated them
with a spirit of confusion;
they have misled Egypt in all that it does,
causing it to stagger like a drunkard into his vomit.
15 And there shall be nothing the Egyptians
can do about it,
neither head nor tail, palm top or reed.

Egypt’s ruling elite resemble disoriented persons possessed by a spirit of confusion who lead an entire nation astray, politically and economically. The people’s cumulative guilt has reached its saturation point. Only Jehovah’s judgments can cleanse the nation of its wickedness and idolatry (v 3). The motifs of a “drunkard” who “staggers” into his “vomit” link the nation of Egypt to Jehovah’s people of the tribe of Ephraim and to Ephraim’s intoxicated prophets (Isaiah 28:1, 3, 7-8; 56:10-12). The “head” and “tail,” “palm top” and “reed” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 7:8-9; 9:14-15; 36:6).

Are you "I AM"?

If MMP isn’t a true doctrine, it sure is a real thing on this forum. Half the people around here are on their 3rd or 4th probation

cab wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 3:08 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:56 pm

cab wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:49 pm

SPIRIT wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 8:32 am
Isaiah 9

14 Therefore Jehovah will cut off from Israel
head and tail, palm top and reed, in a single day;
15 the elders or notables are the head,
the prophets who teach falsehoods, the tail.
16 The leaders of these people have misled them,
and those who are led are confused.

As in ancient times, the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s end-time people resemble one another. Because of their wickedness, Jehovah “cuts off” both from his presence in “a single day”—his Day of Judgment (Isaiah 48:18-19). Because a people’s leaders reflect what the people are, the leaders’ misleading and confusing “these people”—Jehovah’s alienated people—constitutes an integral part of their punishment (cf. Isaiah 3:12). Most reprehensible in the prophets who represent Jehovah to his people are the “falsehoods” or “lies” (seqer) they teach (Isaiah 28:7; 29:10; 32:6-7).

*note
In Isaiah - "Egypt" is the U.S. - just as anciently - Egypt was the superpower.

Isaiah 19

14 Jehovah has permeated them
with a spirit of confusion;
they have misled Egypt in all that it does,
causing it to stagger like a drunkard into his vomit.
15 And there shall be nothing the Egyptians
can do about it,
neither head nor tail, palm top or reed.

Egypt’s ruling elite resemble disoriented persons possessed by a spirit of confusion who lead an entire nation astray, politically and economically. The people’s cumulative guilt has reached its saturation point. Only Jehovah’s judgments can cleanse the nation of its wickedness and idolatry (v 3). The motifs of a “drunkard” who “staggers” into his “vomit” link the nation of Egypt to Jehovah’s people of the tribe of Ephraim and to Ephraim’s intoxicated prophets (Isaiah 28:1, 3, 7-8; 56:10-12). The “head” and “tail,” “palm top” and “reed” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 7:8-9; 9:14-15; 36:6).

Are you "I AM"?

If MMP isn’t a true doctrine, it sure is a real thing on this forum. Half the people around here are on their 3rd or 4th probation

Hahaha! Types and shadows... When will brlenox condescend amongst us again?

Stahura wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 3:30 pm

cab wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 3:08 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:56 pm

cab wrote: ↑January 16th, 2020, 2:49 pm

Are you "I AM"?

If MMP isn’t a true doctrine, it sure is a real thing on this forum. Half the people around here are on their 3rd or 4th probation

Hahaha! Types and shadows... When will brlenox condescend amongst us again?

When will I come again?

2Nephi 28
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.